The closest group genetically to somalis

[NidarNidar]

Do you know anything about these wolayta that keep showing up as a close relative in terms of their genetic distance? They're not even cushites so how come they're very close to us? I have my theories but i wanna hear your opinion. Also what do you know about e-m58?

They are omotic, from southwest Ethiopia, they live close by to Oromo ancestral lands, probably heavily mixed too with the Borana.

 

[Garaad diinle]

They are omotic, from southwest Ethiopia, they live close by to Oromo ancestral lands, probably heavily mixed too with the Borana.

They're located in the southern region of ethiopia and although they don't neighbour somalis they do share the region with other somaloid people such as arbore baiso and daasanach all of whom also live in the southern region too. The omotic speakers of the southern region including the wolayta seem to have been influenced linguistically by the cushitic language and they've adopted some vocabularies from neighbouring or ancient cushitic people.

It's not far fetched to assume that say the wolayta for example have absorbed, adopted or intermixed with some somaloid people which would also explain why they seem to be very close to somalis in terms of their genetic distance. There could be other explanations such as a flow of somali people into the region during 16th century when a somali army led by amir nur ibn mujahid made their way to modern day kaffa region.

 

[Farahslayer]

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I wouldn’t take these genetic tests so seriously, Oromos literally oromified a lot of pure Somali people. I knew one boy whose mom was 100% Somali but claimed oromo and her dad was the regular oromo. If they did genetic testing on him he would claim oromo making it seem like oromos share a large amount of the same dna as Somalis.

You wouldn’t believe how common this is too.

 

[Abdisamadi]

Do you know anything about these wolayta that keep showing up as a close relative in terms of their genetic distance? They're not even cushites so how come they're very close to us? I have my theories but i wanna hear your opinion. Also what do you know about e-

They're located in the southern region of ethiopia and although they don't neighbour somalis they do share the region with other somaloid people such as arbore baiso and daasanach all of whom also live in the southern region too. The omotic speakers of the southern region including the wolayta seem to have been influenced linguistically by the cushitic language and they've adopted some vocabularies from neighbouring or ancient cushitic people.

It's not far fetched to assume that say the wolayta for example have absorbed, adopted or intermixed with some somaloid people which would also explain why they seem to be very close to somalis in terms of their genetic distance. There could be other explanations such as a flow of somali people into the region during 16th century when a somali army led by amir nur ibn mujahid made their way to modern day kaffa region.

Why are they Somaloid instead of Oromo or some other Cushitic?

The daasnach had a system and religion similar to Oromos, I’m not sure when they came here but weren’t we Muslim already?

 

[Garaad diinle]

Why are they Somaloid instead of Oromo or some other Cushitic?

The daasnach had a system and religion similar to Oromos, I’m not sure when they came here but weren’t we Muslim already?

Somaloid as in they speak a somali related language. Daasnach are nilotes who've adopted a somaloid language closely related to the one spoken by arbore. There is still much we don't know about these people but they seem to have moved to what is now southern ethiopia and northern kenya before the domestication or somali adoption of camel

 

[Farahslayer]

They're located in the southern region of ethiopia and although they don't neighbour somalis they do share the region with other somaloid people such as arbore baiso and daasanach all of whom also live in the southern region too. The omotic speakers of the southern region including the wolayta seem to have been influenced linguistically by the cushitic language and they've adopted some vocabularies from neighbouring or ancient cushitic people.

It's not far fetched to assume that say the wolayta for example have absorbed, adopted or intermixed with some somaloid people which would also explain why they seem to be very close to somalis in terms of their genetic distance. There could be other explanations such as a flow of somali people into the region during 16th century when a somali army led by amir nur ibn mujahid made their way to modern day kaffa region.

Still doesn’t make sense because why the hell are they closer to us than Somali Kenyans? Y’all these genetic tests are trash why the cadaans don’t understand the history of the peoples or the politics. That’s why they’re only useful for Europeans.

 

[Aseer]

Still doesn’t make sense because why the hell are they closer to us than Somali Kenyans? Y’all these genetic tests are trash why the cadaans don’t understand the history of the peoples or the politics. That’s why they’re only useful for Europeans.

What these oromos are closer to us than the somali sijuu? yeah this test is BS.

 

[Garaad diinle]

Still doesn’t make sense because why the hell are they closer to us than Somali Kenyans? Y’all these genetic tests are trash why the cadaans don’t understand the history of the peoples or the politics. That’s why they’re only useful for Europeans.

Yeah it sure is a bit confusing at times. I'm sure at the very least if anything this may help us learn a bit of our history at best but not provide a complete picture. Geneticists often times work with historians in order to make sense of their findings since data alone can't help them in figuring out how people moved or how they intermixed.

 

[Abdisamadi]

Somaloid as in they speak a somali related language. Daasnach are nilotes who've adopted a somaloid language closely related to the one spoken by arbore. There is still much we don't know about these people but they seem to have moved to what is now southern ethiopia and northern kenya before the domestication or somali adoption of camel

How is their language more related to Somali than other east Cushitic languages when we weren’t there till the 16th century with the futuh?

 

[Farahslayer]

Yeah it sure is a bit confusing at times. I'm sure at the very least if anything this may help us learn a bit of our history at best but not provide a complete picture. Geneticists often times work with historians in order to make sense of their findings since data alone can't help them in figuring out how people moved or how they intermixed.

But it’s literally impossible. How is Ogaden in dhagabur closer to a wolaiyta than a Ogaden in NFD? It makes zero sense. Especially for Somalis who don’t acknowledge borders at all and don’t even need passport to cross these ‘countries’.

Historians are also eurocentrists so unless that historian is African I can’t take it serious at all and neither should any African. I can’t believe Somalis are paying for this ‘service’.

 

[Garaad diinle]

How is their language more related to Somali than other east Cushitic languages when we weren’t there till the 16th century with the futuh?

Ancient population movement. People who were closely related to somalis moved there in ancient times. Check this thread.

Truly fascinating. By the way did you say Kap-iyorya? Honestly i initially read it as kabo-yare which means small shoe and it's a somali nickname kkk. Then again i might see connections where there are non so it probably doesn't mean much.


I remember reading about some of their oral history that talked about their origin and even genetic tests points to their nilotic and niger congo heritage. This check very well with your oral story so i'd say they properly were either kalenjins or some other related group that intermixed with arbore another somaliod group and then had a linguistic shift afterwords.

Another question what do you think of the following vocabulary? Are they legit?

 

[Garaad diinle]

But it’s literally impossible. How is Ogaden in dhagabur closer to a wolaiyta than a Ogaden in NFD? It makes zero sense. Especially for Somalis who don’t acknowledge borders at all and don’t even need passport to cross these ‘countries’.

Historians are also eurocentrists so unless that historian is African I can’t take it serious at all and neither should any African. I can’t believe Somalis are paying for this ‘service’.

I think we need more testing to see the validity of these results. Their might be an error or something we're missing here. Time would tell.

 

[Abdisamadi]

Ancient population movement. People who were closely related to somalis moved there in ancient times. Check this thread.

Not to be annoying but weren’t the ancient population that moved there cushites as well? Oromos before their omotic mix?

 

[Garaad diinle]

Not to be annoying but weren’t the ancient population that moved there cushites as well? Oromos before their omotic mix?

What we're doing here is gauging the linguistic similarities/relatability and these people are the closest linguistic cosine to us somali speakers. As for oromos their ancient history is a complete mystery. Oromos aren't a monolith and their results at times may differ a lot from one another. Currently we've yet to establish with certainty a specific paternal y-haplogroup for oromos.

 

[Step a side]

But it’s literally impossible. How is Ogaden in dhagabur closer to a wolaiyta than a Ogaden in NFD? It makes zero sense. Especially for Somalis who don’t acknowledge borders at all and don’t even need passport to cross these ‘countries’.

Historians are also eurocentrists so unless that historian is African I can’t take it serious at all and neither should any African. I can’t believe Somalis are paying for this ‘service’.

Who said an Ogaden from dhagaxbuur is closer to a Woleyta than an Ogaden from Somalia? That’s obviously not true

 

[Maakhri from dhahar]

It's not easy to say honestly, the afro-asiatic language family are said by some to go as far back as 20 000 years. Some stuff are easy to discern but others needs some effort. For example if we're talking about numbers i can think of مثنى mathna meaning pair and somali mataane meaning twin. A less obvious one could also be حد/ احد/ واحد meaning one and somail Hal هل. I think we need to look at proto cushitic first and make our way to proto afro-asiatic.

هل = مد = عد = حد
Hal = Mid = Cid = Xad
ل / ع / ر / م ، ن / ش ، س = د / ت
ك / ق = ه ، و ، م ، ن ، ب = ع ، غ = ح ، خ
q / k = h , w , m , n , b = c , g = x , kh
the hebrew word ( عِمْ עם cim c-m ) means : people, nation .
the Somali word ( dad دَدْ d-d ) means : people, nation .
dad / d-d عِمْ עם= دَدْ cim
عِمْ = دَدْ
cim = dad
عِ=دَ
مْ = دْ
دَدْكَ dadka = عِمْم ע ־ מ ־ ם

the Arabic word ( مَرَارَة maraara m-r-r م - ر - ر ) means :
gall bladder , bitterness .
the Somali word ( xameeti حَمِيْتِ x-m-t ح - م - ت ) means :
gall bladder .
m - r - r = x - m - t
q - r - r = m - r - r
the Somali word ( qaraar قَرَارْ q - r - r ق - ر - ر ) means : bitterness .
​

الوتم ، ظاهرة صوتية لغوية قديمة تعزى لبعض قبائل اليمن
وهي قلب السين تاءً
Wattam is an ancient phonetic linguistic phenomenon attributed to some tribes of Yemen, which is changing the letter “ s س ” to “ t ت ” .​

أَفَمِنۡ هَٰذَا ٱلۡحَدِيثِ تَعۡجَبُونَ (59) وَتَضۡحَكُونَ وَلَا تَبۡكُونَ (60) وَأَنتُمۡ سَٰمِدُونَ (61)

saamiduun سَٰمِدُونَ , from the linguistic root:
( s - m - d / س - م - د ) .

quiz :
According to the Wattam (an ancient phonetic linguistic phenomenon ) which is changing the letter “ s س " to "t ت / d د" .

What is the Somali linguistic root corresponding to the
linguistic root ( s - m - d / س - م - د ) ?
​

 

[Step a side]

can you circle the place on the map where the oromos are just assimilated somalis? because @Daadhi Tarree DNA results changed my perspective on the oromos there

He is Arsi Oromo from Bale. They mixed heavily with Somalis. He is like 45% Somali. Bale was Somali territory centuries before Gurey. In fact Gurey’s relative Gasa that relocated the capital of Adal from Harar to Aussa was frpm

Here are Somali clans that moved deep in Arsi (Neciasciar) to spread Islam.

 

[Reformed J]

He is Arsi Oromo from Bale. They mixed heavily with Somalis. He is like 45% Somali. Bale was Somali territory centuries before Gurey. In fact Gurey’s relative Gasa that relocated the capital of Adal from Harar to Aussa was frpm

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Here are Somali clans that moved deep in Arsi (Neciasciar) to spread Islam.


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When using more pure Oromo Borana-like samples (Oromo 1 being the most Mota and Oromo 16 the second most) as references:

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[Shimbiris]

Do you know anything about these wolayta that keep showing up as a close relative in terms of their genetic distance? They're not even cushites so how come they're very close to us? I have my theories but i wanna hear your opinion. Also what do you know about e-m58?

Wolaytas being "close" to us is kinda misleading. They appear close to us at face-value from a pure genetic distance point of view because they're close to us in terms of base admixture levels. As in their proportions of SSA and MENA ancestry are very close to ours and in the end the non-SSA elements in MENA are so genetically differentiated from SSA ancestry that the distances between us and say Tigrinyas will be a little exaggerated even by a simple difference of about 10% in either direction.

In reality, when more recent genetic components are looked at, Wolaytas have a lot of Mota-related ancestry like many other Omotic speakers. I don't remember the numbers but they beat out even the most outlier-iest Oromos out there at well over 25-30%. Somalis only being 5-10% Mota-related at best are definitely not actually that close to them in terms of RECENT ancestral components. In that respect it's definitely something like Oromos>Afars>Agaws>Xabashis then arguably them.

We're still pretty close to them. Same basic components: Natufian/Levant-Neolithic + Iron-Age Arabian (possible Ancient Egyptian instead or as well) + Nilotic + Mota. It's just that when you look at the proportions of these lower (not base) components the numbers would not look as wild between us and Amharas as they will between us and Wolaytas mostly because of their heavy uptick in the Mota component.

And wallahi, been busy with IRL and not had much time to think about Y-DNA lately or my feelings on E-M58.

Update:

But I forgot to address that you're probably also wondering why they even seem closer to us in terms of more recent components than one would expect given that they're Omotic speakers? Like why aren't they the same as Aris? I remember noticing this a decade ago with friends. The impression I get from modeling and look at Wolaytas over the years is that they're a Cushitic or Ethiosemitic admixed group. Probably either the Sidamics or the Southern Ethiosemites (i.e. Gurage) nearby's ancestors significantly intermixed with theirs.

 

[Zak12]

Wolaytas being "close" to us is kinda misleading. They appear close to us at face-value from a pure genetic distance point of view because they're close to us in terms of base admixture levels. As in their proportions of SSA and MENA ancestry are very close to ours and in the end the non-SSA elements in MENA are so genetically differentiated from SSA ancestry that the distances between us and say Tigrinyas will be a little exaggerated even by a simple difference of about 10% in either direction.

In reality, when more recent genetic components are looked at, Wolaytas have a lot of Mota-related ancestry like many other Omotic speakers. I don't remember the numbers but they beat out even the most outlier-iest Oromos out there at well over 25-30%. Somalis only being 5-10% Mota-related at best are definitely not actually that close to them in terms of RECENT ancestral components. In that respect it's definitely something like Oromos>Afars>Agaws>Xabashis then arguably them.

We're still pretty close to them. Same basic components: Natufian/Levant-Neolithic + Iron-Age Arabian (possible Ancient Egyptian instead or as well) + Nilotic + Mota. It's just that when you look at the proportions of these lower (not base) components the numbers would not look as wild between us and Amharas as they will between us and Wolaytas mostly because of their heavy uptick in the Mota component.

And wallahi, been busy with IRL and not had much time to think about Y-DNA lately or my feelings on E-M58.

Update:

But I forgot to address that you're probably also wondering why they even seem closer to us in terms of more recent components than one would expect given that they're Omotic speakers? Like why aren't they the same as Aris? I remember noticing this a decade ago with friends. The impression I get from modeling and look at Wolaytas over the years is that they're a Cushitic or Ethiosemitic admixed group. Probably either the Sidamics or the Southern Ethiosemites (i.e. Gurage) nearby's ancestors significantly intermixed with theirs.

What is the exact ratio of SSA/MENA ancestry that the Wolayta have? I once recall them being pretty close to Maasai and similar people but that might be an exaggeration. Somalis are 60/40 or 55/45 but are distinct from Maasai.