Some Somalis are now claiming Harar, and calling Hararis a fake ethnicity

[Three Moons]

Weren’t the Somalis and assigned their own leases and put into different battalions and they kept falling out during the war? I don’t think we can categorically state the Harla were a Somali clan.

The Somali clan of Zarba led by Imam Ahmed’s nephew rose from the country of Harla during the mobilisation of Adal’s army. There is no modern ethnicity with a direct contemporary 16th century link with the Harla, only the Somali people.

Harla was either a life-style occupation like the Tumal or it was a specific geographic region. In both cases the evidence leans to them being what would today be considered a ‘Somali’ group.

 

[mohammdov]

Harar was not a Somali city. Perhaps some Somalis lived there .
If it were a Somali city, you would find them speaking Somali.

 

[Yami]

Harar was not a Somali city. Perhaps some Somalis lived there .
If it were a Somali city, you would find them speaking Somali.

Lots of the Somali population there was massacred by the Solomonic dynasty for being rebellious.

 

[Yami]

The Somali clan of Zarba led by Imam Ahmed’s nephew rose from the country of Harla during the mobilisation of Adal’s army. There is no modern ethnicity with a direct contemporary 16th century link with the Harla, only the Somali people.

Harla was either a life-style occupation like the Tumal or it was a specific geographic region. In both cases the evidence leans to them being what would today be considered a ‘Somali’ group.

Imo I think it's settled that Harla were a Somali clan. We have their abtirsi

People will have to find a way to argue that either Darood are ajnabi since assimilated Harla in Afar region identify as Darood, a people that were subjected by Afars in the 1600's.


The real mystery surrounding Harla is how a single Darood laf dominated the entire eastern Horn political scene

 

[mohammdov]

Lots of the Somali population there was massacred by the Solomonic dynasty for being rebellious.

The city's population was 30,000, Somalis were perhaps 10%, and the city was dominated by the Imam's family
No one was allowed to farm without permission from the Imam
Coffee cultivation, for example was for the Imam’s family only.
If there were Somalis, they were subject to the Imam, who was not Somali

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

Hararis are living rent free in the minds of these hoteps

 

[Khaemwaset]

The city's population was 30,000, Somalis were perhaps 10%, and the city was dominated by the Imam's family
No one was allowed to farm without permission from the Imam
Coffee cultivation, for example was for the Imam’s family only.
If there were Somalis, they were subject to the Imam, who was not Somali

The somali population was much more than 10% during 1855 during Harar sultanate and before Menelik took over and expelled Somalis.

Just because you believe you're Arab or your Somali family comes from a bunch of illiterates from no where doesn't mean you gotta pin that on all us Respectable Somalis.

 

[NidarNidar]

I agree that Hararis are miskeen but remember that Harlas themselves claim Somalis and Harar shares many similarities with other walled cities Somalis lived in.

Hararis are a fake ethnicity , we have to gatekeep Adal history from Ethiopian hoteps

Not really fake, a new identity for all the mixed people.

 

[mohammdov]

View attachment 313185

The somali population was much more than 10% during 1855 during Harar sultanate and before Menelik took over and expelled Somalis.

Just because you believe you're Arab or your Somali family comes from a bunch of illiterates from no where doesn't mean you gotta pin that on all us Respectable Somalis.

Harar no longer had historical importance after the 16 century, and Adala capital moved to Awsa The city became surrounded by walls and controlled by the Imam
and Today it is an Oromo city

 

[Riftvalley]

The Somali clan of Zarba led by Imam Ahmed’s nephew rose from the country of Harla during the mobilisation of Adal’s army. There is no modern ethnicity with a direct contemporary 16th century link with the Harla, only the Somali people.

Harla was either a life-style occupation like the Tumal or it was a specific geographic region. In both cases the evidence leans to them being what would today be considered a ‘Somali’ group.

This is the information contained in the Harla Afar manuscripts:

“Among the texts collected by the Dardortì branch, a new historical source has also been retrieved during the field mission29. It refers to the genealogy of the family and to their migration to Awsa, their territorial expansion in search of grazing and to the war arisen against the Awsa people. The text confirms that they dried the lake which in the time of their arrival occupied the region of Awsa, to farm30. The lineage from the Ḥaralla tribe is well attested in this text: the name of the tribe is given in the two variants Ḥarallā and Ḥarla that in the text are reported by a certain Yūsuf, collector of the mosque of Šayḫ Ādam which is situated at the border of Yemen, on the seaport of Moḫā. The eponymous founder of the clan, Ḥarallā, is said to have three brothers: all their children scattered between Awsa, Harar, and Berbera. Going back to the ancestors of the clan, a forefather of Ḥarallā, Dārūt, eponymous founder of the famous Somali tribe of the Darood, is said to be from Mecca in the text, and then to have moved to Zaylaʻ. His father was the well known Ismāʻīl b. Ibrāhīm al-Ǧabartī, from Zabīd, whose ancestors are believed to descend directly from the Banū Hašim and the Qurayš”.

Authors comments:

The Kabirto and the Dardortì, descendants of the Ḥarallā, seem to consider themselves ʻAfar and speak ʻAfar language, so it’s somehow surprising to see in their genealogy the presence of the ancestor of one of the major Somali clan. In the Chronicle of ʻAmdä Ṣəyon (14th century) the Ḥarlā are mentioned as an independent and sedentary population. In the Futūḥ al-Habaša, many names of Ḥarlā’s clans are still understandable in ʻAfar and the group is always distinguished from the Somali, so it is possible to suppose that their integration in the Somali lineage is later than the 16th century (date of the redaction of the Futūḥ).


Link to study:

http://www.islhornafr.eu/ReportAwsa2017.pdf

 

[Riftvalley]

Not really fake, a new identity for all the mixed people.

Didn’t the Somalis know them as Adare?

 

[Ximan iyo Xadeed]

This is the information contained in the Harla Afar manuscripts:

“Among the texts collected by the Dardortì branch, a new historical source has also been retrieved during the field mission29. It refers to the genealogy of the family and to their migration to Awsa, their territorial expansion in search of grazing and to the war arisen against the Awsa people. The text confirms that they dried the lake which in the time of their arrival occupied the region of Awsa, to farm30. The lineage from the Ḥaralla tribe is well attested in this text: the name of the tribe is given in the two variants Ḥarallā and Ḥarla that in the text are reported by a certain Yūsuf, collector of the mosque of Šayḫ Ādam which is situated at the border of Yemen, on the seaport of Moḫā. The eponymous founder of the clan, Ḥarallā, is said to have three brothers: all their children scattered between Awsa, Harar, and Berbera. Going back to the ancestors of the clan, a forefather of Ḥarallā, Dārūt, eponymous founder of the famous Somali tribe of the Darood, is said to be from Mecca in the text, and then to have moved to Zaylaʻ. His father was the well known Ismāʻīl b. Ibrāhīm al-Ǧabartī, from Zabīd, whose ancestors are believed to descend directly from the Banū Hašim and the Qurayš”.

Authors comments:

The Kabirto and the Dardortì, descendants of the Ḥarallā, seem to consider themselves ʻAfar and speak ʻAfar language, so it’s somehow surprising to see in their genealogy the presence of the ancestor of one of the major Somali clan. In the Chronicle of ʻAmdä Ṣəyon (14th century) the Ḥarlā are mentioned as an independent and sedentary population. In the Futūḥ al-Habaša, many names of Ḥarlā’s clans are still understandable in ʻAfar and the group is always distinguished from the Somali, so it is possible to suppose that their integration in the Somali lineage is later than the 16th century (date of the redaction of the Futūḥ).


Link to study:

http://www.islhornafr.eu/ReportAwsa2017.pdf

The biggest Harla community are in Jigjiga their numbers are growing enough to have online presence

 

[Three Moons]

This is the information contained in the Harla Afar manuscripts:

“Among the texts collected by the Dardortì branch, a new historical source has also been retrieved during the field mission29. It refers to the genealogy of the family and to their migration to Awsa, their territorial expansion in search of grazing and to the war arisen against the Awsa people. The text confirms that they dried the lake which in the time of their arrival occupied the region of Awsa, to farm30. The lineage from the Ḥaralla tribe is well attested in this text: the name of the tribe is given in the two variants Ḥarallā and Ḥarla that in the text are reported by a certain Yūsuf, collector of the mosque of Šayḫ Ādam which is situated at the border of Yemen, on the seaport of Moḫā. The eponymous founder of the clan, Ḥarallā, is said to have three brothers: all their children scattered between Awsa, Harar, and Berbera. Going back to the ancestors of the clan, a forefather of Ḥarallā, Dārūt, eponymous founder of the famous Somali tribe of the Darood, is said to be from Mecca in the text, and then to have moved to Zaylaʻ. His father was the well known Ismāʻīl b. Ibrāhīm al-Ǧabartī, from Zabīd, whose ancestors are believed to descend directly from the Banū Hašim and the Qurayš”.

Authors comments:

The Kabirto and the Dardortì, descendants of the Ḥarallā, seem to consider themselves ʻAfar and speak ʻAfar language, so it’s somehow surprising to see in their genealogy the presence of the ancestor of one of the major Somali clan. In the Chronicle of ʻAmdä Ṣəyon (14th century) the Ḥarlā are mentioned as an independent and sedentary population. In the Futūḥ al-Habaša, many names of Ḥarlā’s clans are still understandable in ʻAfar and the group is always distinguished from the Somali, so it is possible to suppose that their integration in the Somali lineage is later than the 16th century (date of the redaction of the Futūḥ).


Link to study:

http://www.islhornafr.eu/ReportAwsa2017.pdf

The author assumes that every medieval Somali person fell under the name ‘Somali’. It’s a common mistake that a lot of authors make when discussing the Horn, some do it intentionally to push a narrative. If their Somali clan genealogies predates their acceptance into the Afar nation, then it’s pretty straightforward where their origins lie.

They might have been distinguished from the other Somali groups, but no other group was even mentioned in the Futuh, not the Harari, not the Oromo, not the Afar. In fact Habesha and Portuguese chronicles considered the Kingdom of Dankal an ally of the Christians, which goes against everything the Harla stood for.

Hussain Al-Gaturi, one of Imam Ahmed’s generals included the Harla among the Somali tribes, while the Somali Zarba clan rose from the country of Harla. These are contemporary accounts of a period when the Harla were still a major power in the region, and they are only linked closely with other Somalis.

It’s absurd to suggest they were originally Afar, then joined the Somali clan system and then returned to the Afar. The Harla that were absorbed by the Afar claim Somali descent, the Harla that are found in Somaliweyn also claim Somali descent and spoke a language that was a dialect closely related to Somali. If any other group had these historic ties, there wouldn’t even been a discussion on who the Harla were and what ethnicity they belonged to.

Unfortunately, because the Somali Nation is one of the largest ethnic groups in Africa with a history of expansionist ambitions and posing an existential question to its neighbours, many scholars researching the region on behalf of Ethiopia have had a clear political incentive to deny the Somali people their place in history, so they will ignore a mountain of evidence and logical common sense just to maintain a ‘question mark’ where in any other scenario there would have been an exclamation mark.

 

[Yami]

The author assumes that every medieval Somali person fell under the name ‘Somali’. It’s a common mistake that a lot of authors make when discussing the Horn, some do it intentionally to push a narrative. If their Somali clan genealogies predates their acceptance into the Afar nation, then it’s pretty straightforward where their origins lie.

They might have been distinguished from the other Somali groups, but no other group was even mentioned in the Futuh, not the Harari, not the Oromo, not the Afar. In fact Habesha and Portuguese chronicles considered the Kingdom of Dankal an ally of the Christians, which goes against everything the Harla stood for.

Hussain Al-Gaturi, one of Imam Ahmed’s generals included the Harla among the Somali tribes, while the Somali Zarba clan rose from the country of Harla. These are contemporary accounts of a period when the Harla were still a major power in the region, and they are only linked closely with other Somalis.

It’s absurd to suggest they were originally Afar, then joined the Somali clan system and then returned to the Afar. The Harla that were absorbed by the Afar claim Somali descent, the Harla that are found in Somaliweyn also claim Somali descent and spoke a language that was a dialect closely related to Somali. If any other group had these historic ties, there wouldn’t even been a discussion on who the Harla were and what ethnicity they belonged to.

Unfortunately, because the Somali Nation is one of the largest ethnic groups in Africa with a history of expansionist ambitions and posing an existential question to its neighbours, many scholars researching the region on behalf of Ethiopia have had a clear political incentive to deny the Somali people their place in history, so they will ignore a mountain of evidence and logical common sense just to maintain a ‘question mark’ where in any other scenario there would have been an exclamation mark.

Not to mention the Harla that got conqured by Afaris were settlers from the Harar region fleeing Oromo expansion. There is zero evidence that Afar had deegans anywhere near Harar in the 16th century.

 

[Three Moons]

Not to mention the Harla that got conqured by Afaris were settlers from the Harar region fleeing Oromo expansion. There is zero evidence that Afar had deegans anywhere near Harar in the 16th century.

And none of the Harla remnants found among the Somali people claim any other group, not the Harari, not the Amhara, not the Oromo, not the Afar and instead speak a Somali related dialect. Yet the Harla absorbed by other Nations in the Horn still trace themselves back to the Somali clan system!

The way these researchers still pretend that their origins is a ‘mystery’ is wild.

 

[Abdisamadi]

The author assumes that every medieval Somali person fell under the name ‘Somali’. It’s a common mistake that a lot of authors make when discussing the Horn, some do it intentionally to push a narrative. If their Somali clan genealogies predates their acceptance into the Afar nation, then it’s pretty straightforward where their origins lie.

They might have been distinguished from the other Somali groups, but no other group was even mentioned in the Futuh, not the Harari, not the Oromo, not the Afar. In fact Habesha and Portuguese chronicles considered the Kingdom of Dankal an ally of the Christians, which goes against everything the Harla stood for.

Hussain Al-Gaturi, one of Imam Ahmed’s generals included the Harla among the Somali tribes, while the Somali Zarba clan rose from the country of Harla. These are contemporary accounts of a period when the Harla were still a major power in the region, and they are only linked closely with other Somalis.

It’s absurd to suggest they were originally Afar, then joined the Somali clan system and then returned to the Afar. The Harla that were absorbed by the Afar claim Somali descent, the Harla that are found in Somaliweyn also claim Somali descent and spoke a language that was a dialect closely related to Somali. If any other group had these historic ties, there wouldn’t even been a discussion on who the Harla were and what ethnicity they belonged to.

Unfortunately, because the Somali Nation is one of the largest ethnic groups in Africa with a history of expansionist ambitions and posing an existential question to its neighbours, many scholars researching the region on behalf of Ethiopia have had a clear political incentive to deny the Somali people their place in history, so they will ignore a mountain of evidence and logical common sense just to maintain a ‘question mark’ where in any other scenario there would have been an exclamation mark.

The reason historians made a distinction was because there were obvious differences in the language of Urban Somalis and Harlas, are you saying Somalis spoke Ethio Semetic?

 

[Three Moons]

The reason historians made a distinction was because there were obvious differences in the language of Urban Somalis and Harlas, are you saying Somalis spoke Ethio Semetic?

Provide a single primary source that states the Harla spoke an Ethio-Semitic language. Terms like ‘Ethiopia’ and ‘Semitic’ were never used in reference to the Kingdom of Adal or the Harla, so I’m very intrigued on what source you base this on.

Its even more interesting when the only historic language directly associated with the Harla people is af-Harlaad, which is a dialect related to the Somali language family, which is neither Ethiopian nor Semitic.

 

[awsaleban667]

Provide a single primary source that states the Harla spoke an Ethio-Semitic language. Terms like ‘Ethiopia’ and ‘Semitic’ were never used in reference to the Kingdom of Adal or the Harla, so I’m very intrigued on what source you base this on.

Its even more interesting when the only historic language directly associated with the Harla people is af-Harlaad, which is a dialect related to the Somali language family, which is neither Ethiopian nor Semitic.

Hey do you have a source that Amda Seyon was killed by Somalis

 

[Three Moons]

Hey do you have a source that Amda Seyon was killed by Somalis

I can’t recall where I read this. I will post the source when I find it.

 

[Abdisamadi]

Provide a single primary source that states the Harla spoke an Ethio-Semitic language. Terms like ‘Ethiopia’ and ‘Semitic’ were never used in reference to the Kingdom of Adal or the Harla, so I’m very intrigued on what source you base this on.

Its even more interesting when the only historic language directly associated with the Harla people is af-Harlaad, which is a dialect related to the Somali language family, which is neither Ethiopian nor Semitic.

When you do think they language switched then?