Britain & Italy saved us from being colonized by Ethiopia.

[Galaeri]

View attachment 13658

They truly were the darling of western nations for their entire history.

They got tremendous help during the Ahmed Gurey era, and in the colonial era from the Europeans.


Nice find bro. I never came across this stuff during my readings, this entire line of argument about potential Ethiopian colonisation. Very eye opening.

 

[Gilgamesh]

Made a thread about this a year ago and everybody attacked me for it.

http://www.somalispot.com/threads/that-awkard-moment-when-you-realize.8921/

 

[Bahal]

They truly were the darling of western nations for their entire history.

They got tremendous help during the Ahmed Gurey era, and in the colonial era from the Europeans.


Nice find bro. I never came across this stuff during my readings, this entire line of argument about potential Ethiopian colonisation. Very eye opening.

Yep, we had the advantage of firearms during the 16th century because of the Islamic world, but the tables were well and truly turned in the late 19th-early 20th thanks to the goddamned Europeans and their meddling.

 

[merka]

Perhaps.

Our only issue was Britain's late game decision to totally f*ck us over and leave a nasty legacy to keep us mired in war, something they love to do apparently e.g. Kashmir, Kurdistan, Palestine, Somali Galbeed.

It's always been their policy. Make sure there is some sort of unresolved conflict before they leave. Either they divide people like Somalis or group people who traditionally hate each other like Nigeria

 

[Galaeri]

Made a thread about this a year ago and everybody attacked me for it.

http://www.somalispot.com/threads/that-awkard-moment-when-you-realize.8921/

They did not save us. Look at the Ethiopian history. They were smashed by the Adal Sultanate despite the fact that they were many folds larger than them and had encircled them. They were quite pathetic for an empire. I cannot imagine a reality where they could be able to conquer us without incredible foreign help.

Also what makes you think these Christians would have been able to subjugate the noble Somali? Just look at our history.

 

[Gilgamesh]

They did not save us. Look at the Ethiopian history. They were smashed by the Adal Sultanate despite the fact that they were many folds larger than them and had encircled them. They were quite pathetic for an empire. I cannot imagine a reality where they could be able to conquer us without incredible foreign help.

Also what makes you think these Christians would have been able to subjugate the noble Somali? Just look at our history.

I changed my opinion on this recently. I think it would have been hard for them to totally subjugate Somalis back then just because of the sheer size we inhabit. Not to mention with majority of us being nomads always on the move, we could have sustained a war of attrition for decades to come until the advent of warplanes, military vehicles and other modern weapons.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

They did not save us. Look at the Ethiopian history. They were smashed by the Adal Sultanate despite the fact that they were many folds larger than them and had encircled them. They were quite pathetic for an empire. I cannot imagine a reality where they could be able to conquer us without incredible foreign help.

Also what makes you think these Christians would have been able to subjugate the noble Somali? Just look at our history.

They had modern firearms, and that led them to conquering the Oromos, and all of these other ethnic groups that they've never controlled before. That's the difference.

Now why were we barred from having access to firearms? It's because we weren't a centralized state. Did you know that the colonials offered Sayyid Mohamed Abdullah Hassan a country with Eyl being the port? If he had accepted that offer, he would of had access to firearms and would have been an independent country similar to Abyssinia. Instead all of our lands were completely conquered. Such a shame wallahi! Laascaanood or Talex would of been the Somali capital after unification. Loool!

@merka @Thegoodshepherd @Bahal

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

It is true to some extent, but Ethiopia with Somalia inside it would have been a complete disaster. You have to keep in mind that Ethiopia is already a very unstable country, prone to collapse every 30 years or so. If Somalia was in Ethiopia it would have shattered the whole country. Ethiopia may still break apart due to how many Somalis they have within them as is! Somalis are poison, a country can only have so many of us before it starts to turn blue and purple.

 

[CorpseBride]

Yes. Even without European presence. They were centralized and we were not. That alone would give them an advantage. We were and still are divided by clan rule. I don't think it would have been easy but large parts of mainland Somalia probably northern and southern Somalia would eventually been in their hands. Whereas central Somalia maybe not. I believe those two regions have always been strategic for them.

 

[Bahal]

No chance at all. None. Zero.

Abysinnia's only real advantage was access to firearms, directly a result of European intervention in the region. In the many centuries prior, they have never been able to subjugate low land peoples on equal terms. Nomadic societies could not be tamed by settled peoples before the advent of the gunpowder age.

Abyssinia was and had always been a feudal society from the days of Ahmed Gurey to Menelik. The only new variable introduced were modern firearms. And with their introduction and European refusal to allow us to have similar arms, we were screwed. Because we were Muslim and they were ancient Christians who accepted Christ well before the ancestors of the English.

 

[maestro]

Nah I really doubt this. Menelik invaded bakool region and his troops were massacred by the Geledi. They tried to but always failed even with the British favoring them and putting an arms embargo on Somali clans they still couldn't.

Plus the land they occupy now was literally given to them by the brits as a reward and even then they still had no absolute control of it beyond Jigjiga until decades later when Abdi Iley came around recently

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

Abyssinia was and had always been a feudal society from the days of Ahmed Gurey to Menelik. The only new variable introduced were modern firearms. And with their introduction and European refusal to allow us to have similar arms, we were screwed. Because we were Muslim and they were ancient Christians who accepted Christ well before the ancestors of the English.

You're right. Whenever we were on equal terms, they had absolutely no chance. Just like they had no chance against the Oromos. But, if Britain wasn't in Somaliland then who is to say they wouldn't have taken Berbera port? Who would of stopped them? Nomads? Even though they were a central state that had unlimited access to firearms?

 

[Canuck]

Thoughts?

I believe the title to be true.

Nope, rather we would colonize them, if Ethiopia tried to cross the Somali borders, the dervish would be fighting Ethiopians. Plus in Somali history when it comes to fighting Ethiopia, Somalis become all united, that was common sense. It didn't matter whether they were habashi or Oromo, we viewed them as invaders And we meet them only with war and hostility. Concept like cushite/East African/ Muslim brothers didn't exist for Somalis at that time and helped us from assimilation like Oromo/afar.

 

[Bahal]

You're right. Whenever we were on equal terms, they had absolutely no chance. Just like they had no chance against the Oromos. But, if Britain wasn't in Somaliland then who is to say they wouldn't have taken Berbera port? Who would of stopped them? Nomads? Even though they were a central state that had unlimited access to firearms?

Yes, the clans would've halted their advance as they had done for 500 years.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

Yes, the clans would've halted their advance as they had done for 500 years.

You do know that in 1890, the Ethiopians mustered a force of nearly 200,000 strong with 100,000 modern guns against the Italians which insued their sovereignty. How exactly are individual Somali clans going to stop that?

 

[Bahal]

You do know that in 1890, the Ethiopians mustered a force of nearly 200,000 strong with 100,000 modern guns against the Italians which insued their sovereignty. How exactly are individual Somali clans going to stop that?

I assumed you meant without European intervention, including armament.

Also, that sort of force is only really possible in their own territory, I genuinely doubt they have the ability even today to sustain such a large force in the field. They were a purely feudal society with literally human wave tier tactics, with no ability to project force beyond their borders or the logistical capacity to do so.

 

[Canuck]

You do know that in 1890, the Ethiopians mustered a force of nearly 200,000 strong with 100,000 modern guns against the Italians which insued their sovereignty. How exactly are individual Somali clans going to stop that?

I think that the Italians had to stop the war in Abyssinia due to WW1

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

I assumed you meant without European intervention, including armament.

Even if we had access to unlimited armament. Who would we use it against? Fellow Somalis like we are doing today? Perhaps some clans would actually work with Ethiopia against Somali clans to gain land just like how Ethiopia backed rebels against Barre.

 

[Canuck]

Even if we had access to unlimited armament. Who would we use it against? Fellow Somalis like we are doing today? Perhaps some clans would actually work with Ethiopia against Somali clans to gain land just like how Ethiopia backed rebels against Barre.

Did we do that during Adal wars or dervish wars ?

 

[maestro]

The Ethiopian Emperor Menelik's Somali expedition, consisting of an army of 11,000 men, made a deep push into the vicinity of Luuq in Somalia. However, his troops were soundly defeated by the Gobroon army, with only 200 soldiers returning alive. The Ethiopians subsequently refrained from further expeditions into the interior of Somalia, but continued to oppress the people in the Ogaden by plundering the nomads of their livestock numbering in the hundreds of thousands. The British blockade in firearms to the Somalis in the region rendered the nomads in the Ogaden helpless against the armies of Menelik.

The Geledis saved southern Somalia not the Europeans. Let's not spread misinformation and give credit where it's due