Apparently other Muslim groups take up their Husbands last name

[Man with a garuun]

There is nothing advanced or developed about adopting a husband's name. As for claiming inheritance, a woman can easily produce her nikaax papers and bring along witnesses to court, including HIS children, if she had any with him.

A father and brothers will always have a role in a woman's life, if they choose to do so. Marriage is not slavery or adoption, you have a very scary view of marriage and women in general.

Having a last name is viewed differently in different societies. In developed societies, if the woman doesn't include her husband's last name in her last name, she is constantly asked to provide proof that she was married to her husband. So imagine wherever she goes, she is asked to show her marriage certificate. It is crazy.

This is why in such societies, courts and how last name are used are quite different than how we use it. For a man to divorce his wife or for the wife to do the same, it has to be done through a court. A judge would adjudicate it, and once the divorce is agreed, the resources would be divided. The woman will take from this point her father's last name again since she is no longer tied to her previous husband until she marries again.

In developed societies, knowing your family tree has no relevance. Egypt and Turkey, which are two Muslim-majority countries, you hardly find people knowing their family tree or clans and subclans with the exception of a few minorities.

This is where the concept of last name and which one woman has based on her marriage status matters. Whether one agrees with it or not, it is irrelevant. It is how it is done in developed societies - developed I mean societies where family courts are in control of marriages.

In our society, we have no courts which are in control of marriages. No one documents the woman's right in the nikaah. The sheikh may issue a paper, but that is it. She can't take it to a court and say my husband didn't pay me my mehr. It is up to the man if he wants to pay it or not.

We have no system that enforces alimony. Even in most of the country, there is no child support enforced on the ex-husband. And we don't have a way of dividing the family's resources between the husband and the wife. Heck, no one enforces the 3-months required for a man to alimony or aka "cudhaadh". He divorces it and that is it, they're done. We're very primitive in this regard.

 

[Qeelbax]

It is very haram!

Where did you find this?

 

[Shimbiris]

It's disgusting. Like why would you want to change your name to someone else's name

#nothisproperty

Join his dynasty, abaayo. Your kids belong to it anyway. Be Lady Stark of Winterfell not Lady Tully of Riverrun in Winterfell.

 

[Journey.]

Having a last name is viewed differently in different societies. In developed societies, if the woman doesn't include her husband's last name in her last name, she is constantly asked to provide proof that she was married to her husband. So imagine wherever she goes, she is asked to show her marriage certificate. It is crazy.

This is why in such societies, courts and how last name are used are quite different than how we use it. For a man to divorce his wife or for the wife to do the same, it has to be done through a court. A judge would adjudicate it, and once the divorce is agreed, the resources would be divided. The woman will take from this point her father's last name again since she is no longer tied to her previous husband until she marries again.

In developed societies, knowing your family tree has no relevance. Egypt and Turkey, which are two Muslim-majority countries, you hardly find people knowing their family tree or clans and subclans with the exception of a few minorities.

This is where the concept of last name and which one woman has based on her marriage status matters. Whether one agrees with it or not, it is irrelevant. It is how it is done in developed societies - developed I mean societies where family courts are in control of marriages.

In our society, we have no courts which are in control of marriages. No one documents the woman's right in the nikaah. The sheikh may issue a paper, but that is it. She can't take it to a court and say my husband didn't pay me my mehr. It is up to the man if he wants to pay it or not.

We have no system that enforces alimony. Even in most of the country, there is no child support enforced on the ex-husband. And we don't have a way of dividing the family's resources between the husband and the wife. Heck, no one enforces the 3-months required for a man to alimony or aka "cudhaadh". He divorces it and that is it, they're done. We're very primitive in this regard.

We don't need to imitate other cultures, especially non-Muslims. Our religion already extensively covers Family law and marriage related matters.

 

[Man with a garuun]

We don't need to imitate other cultures, especially non-Muslims. Our religion already extensively covers Family law and marriage related matters.

Re-read what I wrote.

 

[Sophisticate]

Join his dynasty, abaayo. Your kids belong to it anyway. Be Lady Stark of Winterfell not Lady Tully of Riverrun in Winterfell.

Might as well hypenate qabils and surnames like the Brits. Instead of being a surrogate adult child to an Abdi (at least legally).

 

[Shimbiris]

Might as well hypenate qabils and surnames like the Brits. Instead of being a surrogate adult child to an Abdi (at least legally).

That's what Arabs do: [Name] bin [Aabo's name] al-[Name of qabiil]. Oftentimes it's the subtribe or their most immediate laf they're listing, though. Like "Abdulaziz bin Abdulrahman al-Saud". Saud is not really a tribe but more like a reer of the Banu Camr, themselves of the Hawazin, themselves of the Qays, themselves of the Mudar and ultimately of the Banu Nizar (Cadnani Carabs). Be like me going by "al-Dishiishe" or "Dishiisheda", kek. Or my more immediate reer Fahia. This would be too uncouth in Somali society, though. Since the civil war this level of qabiil chauvinism would be in poor taste and have people giving you looks.

 

[reer]

That's what Arabs do: [Name] bin [Aabo's name] al-[Name of qabiil]. Oftentimes it's the subtribe or their most immediate laf they're listing, though. Like "Abdulaziz bin Abdulrahman al-Saud". Saud is not really a tribe but more like a reer of the Banu Camr, themselves of the Hawazin, themselves of the Qays, themselves of the Mudar and ultimately of the Banu Nizar (Cadnani Carabs). Be like me going by "al-Dishiishe" or "Dishiisheda", kek. Or my more immediate reer Fahia. This would be too uncouth in Somali society, though. Since the civil war this level of qabiil chauvinism would be in poor taste and have people giving you looks.

its already started

 

[Shimbiris]

its already started

Reminds me of a treatise I wrote on Georgia:

Kavkaz niggas in general are specimens to say the least. Georgians to their south are also respectable specimens of nin. I have had the pleasure of exploring Georgia a bit and I will consult my travelogue titled "Exploration of Kuffar lands":

Chapter 32: A Foray into the Frontier of al-Qawqaz

"The people here are, unfortunately, Masixi of the Orthodox persuasion. Many Caliphates and Fiefdoms of our great diin have conquered them but yet they have remained a holdout of this archaic and unneeded religion. This is a most unrespectable trait and a stain upon the Middle-East's tariikh. However, I have had the unexpected pleasure of visiting local farmer's markets to study the local diet and I must say that I am, mashallah, considerably impressed. These people, especially in the baadiyo, consume large quantities of milk and milk products untainted by fire and prize foods such as meat, eggs, organic fruit, vegetables and even fresh seafood near the coasts. There is little surprise as to why they are such a hardy people for they have been largely untouched by tainted processed foods of the kafiriin from Curubaa and Amriika. We the people of the one true religion must study them and, inshallah, with righteous learning and conduct Iran shall prevail at the next bout of Olympic Weightlifting." - Shaykh Shimbiris al-Boosaasi (Bandar Qassim) 22 al-Muḥarram 1435 AH

Shaykh Shimbiris al-Boosaasi

Let's be regionalist rather than tribalist, you mooryaans!

 

[Angelina]

I think it is because of the meaning of Weli (Guardian) and how each group views it. When the nikaax is taking place, there is a requirement that an immediate male who is a mahram should be representing the lady - starting from her father.

When nikaah is concluded, the responsibility to feed, cloth, and place her in a good home is on her husband. He is the head of the household. And unless he is putting her life in jeopardy, her father and male mahrams have no role in her life.

Doesn’t make sense at all @Roorigeg, especially for groups like Somalis and Arabs. Our surnames are that of our fathers and grandfathers. Our surnames indicates that we are the son/daughter of so and so. It is a marker of our heritage and the men who are our ancestors. Names reveal our patrilineal identity, NOT who someone is married to. This is a privilege Allah only bestows upon fathers and it has no bearing on the marital status of his daughters.

By taking your husband’s name, you’re insinuating that his father is your own, which is obviously repulsive and above all haram as we’re not allowed to take on another man’s name.
We know this is unacceptable in the Sharia due to various Hadiths. During the time of the Prophet s.a.w, Arabs like Somalis would name themselves after their fathers which is a clear indicator that you’re the daughter of that particular man. Hence why, such behaviors were cursed as you’ve now erased your lineage.

Second, divorce is not easy in many societies. The man can't just divorce his wife because he doesn't like her any more. She also can't just the same as well. There has to be extreme reason of why one is initiating a divorce. In these Muslim societies, the qadi (or a Muslim judge) on family matters have a huge say.

Doesn’t matter. In the Sharia, a man can pronounce talaq three times and the woman is divorced. Islamic Qadis have never had power over men’s divorce apart from making sure they register the separation, but they’ve had a say in women’s divorce with regards to Khula and Fasaq. In developed Muslim countries, the spouses by law are expected to register their marriages and divorces. That is all. By doing so, they can keep tabs who is married to who with no issues with regards to Mehr or inheritance.

Also, divorce isn’t that low in Muslim societies apart from the Indian subcontinent. They’ve still retained the Hindu tradition of heavily stigmatizing divorce.

So when you combine those 2, it makes sense for the woman to take her husband's last name, as it makes it easier for her to claim his properties and resources if he dies before her in addition to social benefits.

Again, that point doesn’t make sense. We have our own legal system. In Islam a woman needs two witnesses to record the marriage and then the marriage needs to recorded by the state so that she can easily petition in front of Qadis. Even in Western countries, many gaal women still keep their name, especially if they have a career in which their name is well known. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a case in which someone wasn’t able to secure their rights simply because of their name. Why do we even have marriage certificates if that is the case?

Being a pastoralist and farming community with limited governance, we have time to catch up with other developed Muslim societies.

The last part is incorrect on many levels. Before colonization, hardly any Muslim community used to take on their husbands name. Such customs were seen as incredibly strange and it is a marker of Roman/Judo traditions that has no place in Islamic societies.

The most developed Muslim countries, which are the Khaleej do not have the custom of a wife taking on her husband’s name. Like the Somalis, they take on their fathers name and their surname is an indication of their father and tribe. Taking on a husband’s name is seen as ceeb in nomadic tribal societies. I think the only groups who do this amongst Muslims are the Subcontinent, which makes sense as their naming system is vastly different. In fact, traditionally, they didn’t even have surnames before colonization and their surnames doesn’t reflect patrilineal ancestry.

 

[Angelina]

Having a last name is viewed differently in different societies. In developed societies, if the woman doesn't include her husband's last name in her last name, she is constantly asked to provide proof that she was married to her husband. So imagine wherever she goes, she is asked to show her marriage certificate. It is crazy.

This is why in such societies, courts and how last name are used are quite different than how we use it. For a man to divorce his wife or for the wife to do the same, it has to be done through a court. A judge would adjudicate it, and once the divorce is agreed, the resources would be divided. The woman will take from this point her father's last name again since she is no longer tied to her previous husband until she marries again.

In developed societies, knowing your family tree has no relevance. Egypt and Turkey, which are two Muslim-majority countries, you hardly find people knowing their family tree or clans and subclans with the exception of a few minorities.

This is where the concept of last name and which one woman has based on her marriage status matters. Whether one agrees with it or not, it is irrelevant. It is how it is done in developed societies - developed I mean societies where family courts are in control of marriages.

In our society, we have no courts which are in control of marriages. No one documents the woman's right in the nikaah. The sheikh may issue a paper, but that is it. She can't take it to a court and say my husband didn't pay me my mehr. It is up to the man if he wants to pay it or not.

We have no system that enforces alimony. Even in most of the country, there is no child support enforced on the ex-husband. And we don't have a way of dividing the family's resources between the husband and the wife. Heck, no one enforces the 3-months required for a man to alimony or aka "cudhaadh". He divorces it and that is it, they're done. We're very primitive in this regard.

Everything you wrote has nothing to do with taking on your husbands name. The Gulf has Islamic courts, in fact it is a lot more sophisticated than the vast majority of Muslim countries and the locals here never take on their husband’s name. Oh and yes, here family courts are indeed in charge of marriages. It is illegal to not register your marriage and upon divorce the husband needs to register the fact that he has divorced his wife by registering the talaq officially.

Somalis not having real courts and Qadis is an example of how underdeveloped we are, which is mainly due to the war and nothing to do with our naming systems. Hardly any of the Arab world take on their husband’s name, yet they’ve managed to have legal courts, so what does names have to do with your point?

FYI, women in Egypt hardly take on their husband’s name. So I don’t understand why you even included Egypt tbh. It’s not the norm their whatsoever.

 

[Shimbiris]

@reer

Waryaa, you've given me a bit of an internal crisis to deal with cos I kinda have to admit I like the sound of "Dishiishi".

 

[reer]

@reer

Waryaa, you've given me a bit of an internal crisis to deal with cos I kinda have to admit I like the sound of "Dishiishi".

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[Reformed J]

@reer

Waryaa, you've given me a bit of an internal crisis to deal with cos I kinda have to admit I like the sound of "Dishiishi".

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[anonimo]

OP

Waa Waali just like claiming to belong to Hooyo's Qabil, somaha yarisey?

 

[Nilotic]

So Dinkas also basically have a custom of Abtirsi like Somalis and Jazeeran Arabs? You can recount your male line ancestors' names going back to like 20-40 generations?

Yes, we can go back centuries because lineage is very important to us; you have to provide 4 names when you really want to introduce yourself.

 

[Awad]

Many people in Egypt etc. do not have tribes or clans nor do they know the names of any paternal ancestors beyond their grandfather. For example, the Al Saud royal family can only name its paternal ancestors to Mani' ibn Rabi'a al-Muraydi in 1446. They don't know the names of any paternal ancestor beyond that, they only "know" be belonged to the Banu Hanifah tribe. For non royal commoners, the number of paternal ancestors they know by name is even less, they only know which sub clan or tribe their paternal ancestry supposedly comes from. Only famous clans like Hashemites and other Qurayshi would "know" their paternal lineage by names beyond that, and the majority of them are fabricated.

 

[adventurequestworlds1.0.2]

I think it is because of the meaning of Weli (Guardian) and how each group views it. When the nikaax is taking place, there is a requirement that an immediate male who is a mahram should be representing the lady - starting from her father.

When nikaah is concluded, the responsibility to feed, cloth, and place her in a good home is on her husband. He is the head of the household. And unless he is putting her life in jeopardy, her father and male mahrams have no role in her life.

Second, divorce is not easy in many societies. The man can't just divorce his wife because he doesn't like her any more. She also can't just the same as well. There has to be extreme reason of why one is initiating a divorce. In these Muslim societies, the qadi (or a Muslim judge) on family matters have a huge say.

So when you combine those 2, it makes sense for the woman to take her husband's last name, as it makes it easier for her to claim his properties and resources if he dies before her in addition to social benefits.

Being a pastoralist and farming community with limited governance, we have time to catch up with other developed Muslim societies.

 

[adventurequestworlds1.0.2]

Having a last name is viewed differently in different societies. In developed societies, if the woman doesn't include her husband's last name in her last name, she is constantly asked to provide proof that she was married to her husband. So imagine wherever she goes, she is asked to show her marriage certificate. It is crazy.

This is why in such societies, courts and how last name are used are quite different than how we use it. For a man to divorce his wife or for the wife to do the same, it has to be done through a court. A judge would adjudicate it, and once the divorce is agreed, the resources would be divided. The woman will take from this point her father's last name again since she is no longer tied to her previous husband until she marries again.

In developed societies, knowing your family tree has no relevance. Egypt and Turkey, which are two Muslim-majority countries, you hardly find people knowing their family tree or clans and subclans with the exception of a few minorities.

This is where the concept of last name and which one woman has based on her marriage status matters. Whether one agrees with it or not, it is irrelevant. It is how it is done in developed societies - developed I mean societies where family courts are in control of marriages.

In our society, we have no courts which are in control of marriages. No one documents the woman's right in the nikaah. The sheikh may issue a paper, but that is it. She can't take it to a court and say my husband didn't pay me my mehr. It is up to the man if he wants to pay it or not.

We have no system that enforces alimony. Even in most of the country, there is no child support enforced on the ex-husband. And we don't have a way of dividing the family's resources between the husband and the wife. Heck, no one enforces the 3-months required for a man to alimony or aka "cudhaadh". He divorces it and that is it, they're done. We're very primitive in this regard.

 

[SanaLaporte]

of course they do, they suffer from low self esteem wallahi so pathetic, theyre the same ones who complain about 4 wives in Islam which has many requirements to be allowed, but will wipe off their own heritage gladly because the west said so, their religion is the west not Islam

I went to the bank to open an account with my hoyo and I was underage so they asked for proof this is my mother or something along those lines, my mother obviously doesnt have the same surname and they said to come with my father next time, like do they even realise how crazy they sound