kafir I head you got a sister... is she available for marriage?
Yes, You are blind but God did not forget you!
- Thread starter Basra
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Entertainment.I really couldn't careless what someone's religion is but at the same time why work to make people regret a religion you left? @Kafir
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I'm from the same part of Awdal pretty much every other gadabuursi alive is from. Borama.
As for my stance of Awdalland. Superficially, I hate the look of the flag. And not just because of the Islamic paraphernalia in the middle. The entire thing looks like it was created on Microsoft paint. I'm not a fan of the name either. Particularly the suffix -land at the end. This is a vestige of colonialism and the habit of adding -land to Somali states needs to die. Was the name Awdal by itself not good enough?
As for the actual state itself I have no issue with it. Awdalland doesn't see itself as an independent state from the larger Somali nation and I support that.
Do-I-Look-Somali
Make me some Cambulo tonight.
My iman has nothing to do with your question. I simply said in an elaborate way that your question was dumb, because literally your questions get answered in the same verse you mentioned, and in the verses the brother showed you. You asked "why am I being punished for not following something I can't follow, because I've been covered with a veil?"
I answered by telling you, you had many opportunities, but never listened, and you still have an opportunity but can't even see the answer when it's right in your face. Don't complicate something simple bro.
The verse clearly states that Allah is purposefully making it so that the unbelievers will not believe. The verse is telling you that there is no point to trying to convince unbelievers because Allah himself made them immune to believing. The verse goes on to say that because of their unbelief Allah is going to punish them. The verse is saying that Allah is going to punish unbelievers because of something he did.
Read that over and over again until it clicks. Notice how something doesn't add up?
Do-I-Look-Somali
Make me some Cambulo tonight.
Everything adds up perfectly man. You're just not seeing the answer. Plus you totally forgot the previous verses before that talk about the 6 requirements a individual should uphold. You don't need to be a Muslim to uphold some of those requirements. Let me refresh your dying memory with verses you forgot to analyze.
(2:3) for those who believe in the existence of that which is beyond the reach of perception,4 who establish Prayer5 and spend out of what We have provided them,6
4. This is the second prerequisite for deriving benefit from the Qur'an. Ghayb signifies the verities which are hidden from man's senses and which are beyond the scope of man's ordinary observation and experience, for example the existence and attributes of God, the angels. the process of revelation, Paradise, Hell and so on. 'Belief in the ghaib' means having faith in such matters, based on an absolute confidence in the Messengers of God and despite the fact that it is impossible to experience them.
According to this verse, Qur'anic guidance can prove helpful only to those prepared to affirm the truths of the suprasensory realm. People who make their belief in these questions conditional upon sensory perception of the object of belief, and who are not prepared even to consider the possibility of the existence of things that cannot be weighed or measured, cannot profit from this Book.
5. This is the third requirement. It is pointed out that those to whom belief means merely the pronouncement of a formula, who think that a mere verbal confession of faith is enough and that it makes no practical demands on them, can derive no guidance from the Qur'an. To benefit from the Qur'an it is essential that a man's decision to believe should be followed immediately by practical obedience to God.
Prayer is the first and continuing sign of practical obedience. No more than a few hours can pass after a man has embraced Islam than the mu'adhin calls to Prayer and it becomes evident whether or not the profession of faith has been genuine. Moreover, the mu'adhin calls to Prayer five times every day and whenever a man fails to respond to his call it becomes clear that he has transgressed the bounds of practical obedience. An abandonment of Prayer amounts to an abandonment of obedience. Obviously, if a man is not prepared to follow the directives of his guide, it is immaterial whether or not true guidance is available to him.
It should also be noted that the expression 'establishment of Prayer' has a wider meaning than mere performance of Prayer. It means that the system of Prayer should be organized on a collective basis. If there is a person in a locality who prays individually but no arrangements are made for congregational Prayer, it cannot be claimed that Prayer is established in that locality.
6. This, the fourth prerequisite for a person to benefit from the Qur'an, demands that the person concerned should neither be niggardly nor a worshipper of money. On the contrary, he should be willing to pay the claims on his property of both God and man, and should not flinch from making financial sacrifices for the sake of his convictions.
(2:4) who believe in what has been revealed to you and what was revealed before you,7 and have firm faith in the Hereafter.8
7. The fifth requirement is that one should believe in the Books revealed by God to His Prophets in the various ages and regions of the world, in the Book revealed to Muhammad (peace be on him) as well as in those revealed to the other Prophets who preceded him. The door of the Qur'an is closed to all those who do not consider it necessary for man to receive guidance from God. It is also closed to those who, even if they believe in the need for such guidance, do not consider it necessary to seek it through the channel of revelation and prophethood, but would rather weave their own set of ideas and concepts and regard them as equivalent to Divine Guidance.
This door is also closed to those who believe in Divine books as such, but confine this belief to those books accepted by their forefathers, and spurn Divine Guidance revealed to anyone born beyond their own racial and national boundaries. The Qur'an excludes all such people and is prepared to open the source of its grace only to those who believe that mankind does require Divine Guidance, who acknowledge that this guidance does not come to people individually but reaches them through Prophets and Divine Books and who are not given to racial or national chauvinism but are devotees of Truth alone, and are therefore prepared to submit to Divine Guidance wherever it be found.
8. Belief in the After-life is the sixth and last requirement. The term al-Akhirah embraces a whole set of ideas: (i) that man is not an irresponsible being, but is answerable to God for all his conduct in this world; (ii) that the present order of the world is not timeless, but will come to an end at an appointed hour known only to God; (iii) that when this world comes to an end God will bring into being another world in which He will resurrect, at one and the same moment, all the human beings ever born on earth. He will gather them together, examine their conduct and grant each one just reward for his actions; (iv) that those who are accounted good in God's judgement will be sent to Heaven, and those judged by Him as evil-doers will be consigned to Hell; (v) that the real measure of success and failure is not one's prosperity in the present life, but one's success or failure according to God's judgement in the Next. Those who do not accept this set of beliefs can derive no benefit from the Qur'an. For if a man is merely in a state of doubt and hesitation with regard to these matters - let alone disbelieving them - he cannot advance even one step forward along the path charted out by the Qur'an.
Do-I-Look-Somali
Make me some Cambulo tonight.
(2:6) As for those who have rejected (these truths),9 it is all the same whether or not you warn them, for they will not believe.
9. That is, those people who do not meet these six requirements, or reject all or any one of the fundamentals set out above.
(2:7) Allah has sealed their hearts10and their hearing, and a covering has fallen over their eyes. They deserve severe chastisement.
10. This does not mean that their rejection of the Truth is a consequence of God sealing their hearts. What is meant is that God sealed their hearts and ears as a consequence of their decision to reject the fundamentals of faith, of their deliberate choice of a path divergent from that charted out by the Qur'an. Anyone who has worked for the dissemination of the Truth often finds that if, after full consideration, a person decides against a doctrine, his mind begins to move in a completely opposite direction so that he fails to appreciate anything that is explained to him. His ears become deaf, his eyes are blinded to the merits of that doctrine, and one gets the distinct impression that the person's heart has indeed been sealed.
Kut kudil
U keep on saying that everyday. You are very sad and lonly man
Beautifully said. Mashalla Alle fahamka haa kuu badiyo
What you are arguing here is that:
People who are predisposed to believing the quran are the only ones who will believe the quran.
I could've told you that one. There's a problem with that. You shouldn't believe in something because you want to believe in it. You believe in something because there is compelling evidence to believe in it. Do you disagree with this?
Practical obedience should not come before belief.
Prayer should not come before belief.
You aren't going to obey the commands of the Quran before you believe the Quran is actually from a god. There is a similar application about prayers.
Believing in the stories of the old testament is mandatory to being convinced that the Quran is true? I see, so dawah only works on Christians and Jews?
This ultimately comes right back down to that same verse I quoted to you. Why is it that only the people who fit this description (some of them being nonsensical like obeying the Quran before believing in it) are the ones who Allah didn't purposefully prevent from believing. For instance let's say you as a Muslim want to convince an atheist to gain the attributes of a person who Allah isn't preventing from believing. Is this possible?
Do-I-Look-Somali
Make me some Cambulo tonight.
"People who are predisposed to believing the quran are the only ones who will believe the quran."
This is false. Many ppl who have never heard of the Quran during there childhoods, or came from a non Muslim background are now Muslim due to understanding, and searching for the truth.
"I could've told you that one. There's a problem with that. You shouldn't believe in something because you want to believe in it. You believe in something because there is compelling evidence to believe in it. Do you disagree with this?"
No I don't disagree, and the Quran supports that. There is no compulsion to be in Islam if you don't want to. We all have free will, but the Quran itself is compelling evidence to believe. You haven't even asked a question that's compelling at all yet unfortunately.
"Practical obedience should not come before belief.
Prayer should not come before belief."
That's your subjective opinion. What does belief mean to you? If a person believes in the Quran then he must show obedience to the Quran, and believing, and prayer go together in Islam. You believe in Allah so you only worship, and pray to Allah. Again my brother don't complicate something so simple.
"You aren't going to obey the commands of the Quran before you believe the Quran is actually from a god. There is a similar application about prayers."
Basically you're just repeating what you said before.
"Believing in the stories of the old testament is mandatory to being convinced that the Quran is true? I see, so dawah only works on Christians and Jews?"
This is false. Many athiests, and agnostics have become Muslim. I used to be athiest, and am now Muslim. I don't think you fully read my last comment. Please go read it again.
"This ultimately comes right back down to that same verse I quoted to you. Why is it that only the people who fit this description (some of them being nonsensical like obeying the Quran before believing in it) are the ones who Allah didn't purposefully prevent from believing. For instance let's say you as a Muslim want to convince an atheist to gain the attributes of a person who Allah isn't preventing from believing. Is this possible?"
Again you missed my last comment addressing this. Allah gives you many opportunities, but you the individual who has free will choses to not believe anything given to you so you end up not even believing anything about the topic you wish to not believe in. This answered your question perfectly, but you didn't see, or choose to read it.
(2:7) Allah has sealed their hearts10and their hearing, and a covering has fallen over their eyes. They deserve severe chastisement.
10. This does not mean that their rejection of the Truth is a consequence of God sealing their hearts. What is meant is that God sealed their hearts and ears as a consequence of their decision to reject the fundamentals of faith, of their deliberate choice of a path divergent from that charted out by the Qur'an. Anyone who has worked for the dissemination of the Truth often finds that if, after full consideration, a person decides against a doctrine, his mind begins to move in a completely opposite direction so that he fails to appreciate anything that is explained to him. His ears become deaf, his eyes are blinded to the merits of that doctrine, and one gets the distinct impression that the person's heart has indeed been sealed.
"If a person believes in the Quran then he must show obedience to the Quran" Please keep in mind that what we're talking about are the conditions required from a person so Allah isn't purposefully sealing their hearts and preventing them from believing. A Muslim will obey the Quran because they already believe in the Quran. We're talking about people who don't believe in the Quran. You're trying to tell me that they have to believe in the Quran first because that is one of the prerequisites so Allah isn't sealing their hearts.
Belief in the Quran -----> Obeying the Quran --------> Allah not sealing their hearts ------> Belief in the Quran.
Notice the flaw in that chart?
"This is false. Many athiests, and agnostics have become Muslim?"
According to your prerequisites you need to believe in the stories of the old testament before Allah stops sealing your heart from believing. Or at the very least believe in the "revelations" before Muhammad. An atheist does not fit that description. As a result according to you an atheist has their heart sealed and prevented from believing.
You are misunderstanding the verse as you haven't read the Tafsir on it.The simplest explanation is that your heart is like a flat sheet , as the sins you partake in the sins cover the heart.At a certain point your whole heart is covered with this sin , at this point the heart is sealed by Allah.For such people Once they reject islam,
"they feel compelled to prove Islam wrong, validly or invalidly, in order to justify the position they have taken, regardless of the evidence otherwise. This behaviour hardens them in their rejection of Islam and practically closes all avenues to a sincere and honest look at it. Whatever their reasons, they have sealed their hearts, eyes and ears shut from Islam. "
Do-I-Look-Somali
Make me some Cambulo tonight.
"Please keep in mind that what we're talking about are the conditions required from a person so Allah isn't purposefully sealing their hearts and preventing them from believing. A Muslim will obey the Quran because they already believe in the Quran. We're talking about people who don't believe in the Quran. You're trying to tell me that they have to believe in the Quran first because that is one of the prerequisites so Allah isn't sealing their hearts."
Again you seem to be over complicating, and not reading what I post. Please read this, because you keep repeating yourself.
(2:7) Allah has sealed their hearts10and their hearing, and a covering has fallen over their eyes. They deserve severe chastisement.
10. This does not mean that their rejection of the Truth is a consequence of God sealing their hearts. What is meant is that God sealed their hearts and ears as a consequence of their decision to reject the fundamentals of faith, of their deliberate choice of a path divergent from that charted out by the Qur'an. Anyone who has worked for the dissemination of the Truth often finds that if, after full consideration, a person decides against a doctrine, his mind begins to move in a completely opposite direction so that he fails to appreciate anything that is explained to him. His ears become deaf, his eyes are blinded to the merits of that doctrine, and one gets the distinct impression that the person's heart has indeed been sealed.
"According to your prerequisites you need to believe in the stories of the old testament before Allah stops sealing your heart from believing. Or at the very least believe in the "revelations" before Muhammad. An atheist does not fit that description. As a result according to you an atheist has their heart sealed and prevented from believing."
Yes, and no. Many non Muslims including athiest meet some of the requirements. Many athiests have become Muslim, and this is a fact. They had no knowledge of the Quran before they became Muslim, and once they read it, they decided for themselves to become Muslim. I think you're confusing yourself. I explained to you the verse that made you ask this question, but you seem to be ignoring it. Why is that?
Why you so brave for all of aSudden ? Is he your athiest brother?
I was being nice to him genuinely
@Kafir ignore the bait they just want to
Battle with you religiously and bully
You - they like to gang up here
"What is meant is that God sealed their hearts and ears as a consequence of their decision to reject the fundamentals of faith"
The fundamentals you're describing was the list of 6 prerequisites needed in order for Allah not to seal a person's heart. Or as you describe those who don't have these 6 prerequisites have their hearts sealed by Allah.
What does it mean for Allah to seal their hearts?
This quote from you "What is meant is that God sealed their hearts and ears as a consequence of their decision to reject the fundamentals of faith" doesn't answer "what" it answers "why". You're telling me "why" their hearts are sealed rather than saying the implication of a sealed heart.
The most obvious and direct interpretation about what the sealed heart means is that it prevents them from believing. This interpretation is supported by the next verse which says whether your warn them or not they won't believe. This makes it pretty clear what a sealed heart means. Or was the Quran not clear enough? The verse talks about a direct action taken by Allah himself. If the unbelievers inability to believe was purely out of their own actions, there would be no need for Allah to be sealing a heart.
Among the list of 6 prerequisites you mentioned were obeying Allah. Obeying Allah means what exactly? How does a person know what Allah wants? What Allah wants is supposedly in the Quran. Meaning that a person needs to obey the Quran before they meet one of the 6 prerequisites needed for their hearts not to be sealed. If their hearts are not sealed they can believe. If it's not necessary, then don't call it a requirement.
You also mentioned that despite only meeting some of the requirements there have been atheists who were able to believe in the Quran. Since when is meeting only some of the requirements sufficient? The chapter lists the qualities of the people who find the book useful. The people who don't have those qualities have their hearts sealed. Only Muslims will have those qualities. Only Muslims will not have their hearts sealed.
(Sahih International)
And none deny it except every sinful transgressor.
-Sura Al-Mutaffifin, Ayah 12
(Sahih International)
When Our verses are recited to him, he says, "Legends of the former peoples."
-Sura Al-Mutaffifin, Ayah 13
(Sahih International)
No! Rather, the stain has covered their hearts of that which they were earning.
-Sura Al-Mutaffifin, Ayah 14
And none deny it except every sinful transgressor.
-Sura Al-Mutaffifin, Ayah 12
(Sahih International)
When Our verses are recited to him, he says, "Legends of the former peoples."
-Sura Al-Mutaffifin, Ayah 13
(Sahih International)
No! Rather, the stain has covered their hearts of that which they were earning.
-Sura Al-Mutaffifin, Ayah 14
Do-I-Look-Somali
Make me some Cambulo tonight.
"The fundamentals you're describing was the list of 6 prerequisites needed in order for Allah not to seal a person's heart. Or as you describe those who don't have these 6 prerequisites have their hearts sealed by Allah."
Correct, and if you don't believe nothing will make you believe, because in your mind you've already decided that you don't want to believe.
"What does it mean for Allah to seal their hearts?"
I already told you what it means in my previous comments. Go read my last comment.
"This quote from you "What is meant is that God sealed their hearts and ears as a consequence of their decision to reject the fundamentals of faith" doesn't answer "what" it answers "why". You're telling me "why" their hearts are sealed rather than saying the implication of a sealed heart."
That's not all I said. I also told you if a person refuses to believe, then nothing will make him believe. Not even the truth will make him believe, because in his mind he has shut everything out that agrees with whatever it is he does not want to believe. I actually said this 3 times already. Please don't make this discussion repetitive. That's very annoying, and a waste of time.
"The most obvious and direct interpretation about what the sealed heart means is that it prevents them from believing. This interpretation is supported by the next verse which says whether your warn them or not they won't believe. This makes it pretty clear what a sealed heart means. Or was the Quran not clear enough? The verse talks about a direct action taken by Allah himself. If the unbelievers inability to believe was purely out of their own actions, there would be no need for Allah to be sealing a heart."
Again you seem to be confusing yourself, and over complicating something simple. The Quran was very clear, and I explained it to you already by saying (10. This does not mean that their rejection of the Truth is a consequence of God sealing their hearts. What is meant is that God sealed their hearts and ears as a consequence of their decision to reject the fundamentals of faith, of their deliberate choice of a path divergent from that charted out by the Qur'an. Anyone who has worked for the dissemination of the Truth often finds that if, after full consideration, a person decides against a doctrine, his mind begins to move in a completely opposite direction so that he fails to appreciate anything that is explained to him. His ears become deaf, his eyes are blinded to the merits of that doctrine, and one gets the distinct impression that the person's heart has indeed been sealed.) Also We Muslims believe everything is by Allah, and you choosing not to believe in Allah was already written down by Allah. Allah gives us our destiny, and He can change our destinys anytime with the choices we make. So yes Allah has sealed your heart, and eyes but it was the choices you made that led to that.
"Among the list of 6 prerequisites you mentioned were obeying Allah. Obeying Allah means what exactly? How does a person know what Allah wants? What Allah wants is supposedly in the Quran. Meaning that a person needs to obey the Quran before they meet one of the 6 prerequisites needed for their hearts not to be sealed. If their hearts are not sealed they can believe. If it's not necessary, then don't call it a requirement."
You obey Allah by following his messenger, and by following the Quran. Allah doesn't want nothing from you, but for you to worship him, but if you choose not to worship then it is out of your own free will, and the consequences you receive in this life, and afterlife is all, because of the choices you made by not following, or believing. Allah told us what he wants many times in the Quran, and I just told you right now. A person who wants to be Muslim has already realized the Quran is the truth, and already believes. That's common sense, but you keep confusing yourself by complicating it. I already told you how the hearts get sealed. Please stop being repetitive.
"You also mentioned that despite only meeting some of the requirements there have been atheists who were able to believe in the Quran. Since when is meeting only some of the requirements sufficient? The chapter lists the qualities of the people who find the book useful. The people who don't have those qualities have their hearts sealed. Only Muslims will have those qualities. Only Muslims will not have their hearts sealed."
Again common sense should answer this question. There are athiests who are willing to listen to the truth, and who have not decided that what they believe is the ultimate truth. That's very simple to understand honestly. Not all athiests have decided that Islam is a lie, and that alone meets some of the requirements. You only choose to not believe, but some athiests are willing to learn, to believe. I answered the ending sentence in my previous comment, and in this company.
He asks how he is experiencing free will and is being forced to not believe at the same time.
And his Lord tells him
(Sahih International)
Do you not know that Allah knows what is in the heaven and earth? Indeed, that is in a Record. Indeed that, for Allah, is easy.
-Sura Al-Hajj, Ayah 70
And he forgets those moments where he had a deja vu ando his Lord showed him how he does that. He forgets the very computer program that is allowing him to Argue right now. He forgets that his whitemail overlords in theoretical physics are now claiming that this universe is a hologram that is playing out a program that is outside it. He forgets plato's allegory of the cave and does not realize how he himself is in the cave and how the prophet represents literally and figuratively the man in the cave. He forgets the spiritual experiences he has had when he asked God to show him a sign.
(Sahih International)
And We have certainly diversified in this Qur'an for the people from every [kind of] example; but man has ever been, most of anything, [prone to] dispute.
-Sura Al-Kahf, Ayah 54
And his Lord tells him
(Sahih International)
Do you not know that Allah knows what is in the heaven and earth? Indeed, that is in a Record. Indeed that, for Allah, is easy.
-Sura Al-Hajj, Ayah 70
And he forgets those moments where he had a deja vu ando his Lord showed him how he does that. He forgets the very computer program that is allowing him to Argue right now. He forgets that his whitemail overlords in theoretical physics are now claiming that this universe is a hologram that is playing out a program that is outside it. He forgets plato's allegory of the cave and does not realize how he himself is in the cave and how the prophet represents literally and figuratively the man in the cave. He forgets the spiritual experiences he has had when he asked God to show him a sign.
(Sahih International)
And We have certainly diversified in this Qur'an for the people from every [kind of] example; but man has ever been, most of anything, [prone to] dispute.
-Sura Al-Kahf, Ayah 54
He claims that his entire family is gaal. Difficult to believe but as for his case, his example is the one who puts bis hands inside his ears to block out the sound of thunder even as he is being drenched by water and risks the chance of being struck by lightning.
The revelation and signs of God are all about him via the rain that touches him whether he acknowledges it or not (the various blessings and gifts that the kaffir and every human enjoys). The thunder is the powerful message that accompanies the rain. It is the innate internal drive for man to believe in his Lord and submit to him along with the outside messages reminding him of that. The kaffir attempts to block it out through his arguments his politics and his warmongering yet the Muslim breeds migrates believes and spreads the message. Likewise the thunder at the hands of God cracks without any input from the kaffir. And the reality of the lightning is the kaffie knows he could be struck senseless by calamity and death at any time. So he walks terrified of these things that he knows his creator has made innate in life. His is a weak existence bereft of courage to stand up for his own life and beliefs. The lightning has him stuck in place while his hands are over his ears. And if he should survive the storm of the day reminding him to repent, he takes the blessings of the rain on his crops dries his clothes of the obvious signs and carries on in his ignorant ignominy .
(Sahih International)
Or [it is] like a rainstorm from the sky within which is darkness, thunder and lightning. They put their fingers in their ears against the thunderclaps in dread of death. But Allah is encompassing of the disbelievers.
-Sura Al-Baqarah, Ayah 19
(Sahih International)
The lightning almost snatches away their sight. Every time it lights [the way] for them, they walk therein; but when darkness comes over them, they stand [still]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken away their hearing and their sight. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.
-Sura Al-Baqarah, Ayah 20
The revelation and signs of God are all about him via the rain that touches him whether he acknowledges it or not (the various blessings and gifts that the kaffir and every human enjoys). The thunder is the powerful message that accompanies the rain. It is the innate internal drive for man to believe in his Lord and submit to him along with the outside messages reminding him of that. The kaffir attempts to block it out through his arguments his politics and his warmongering yet the Muslim breeds migrates believes and spreads the message. Likewise the thunder at the hands of God cracks without any input from the kaffir. And the reality of the lightning is the kaffie knows he could be struck senseless by calamity and death at any time. So he walks terrified of these things that he knows his creator has made innate in life. His is a weak existence bereft of courage to stand up for his own life and beliefs. The lightning has him stuck in place while his hands are over his ears. And if he should survive the storm of the day reminding him to repent, he takes the blessings of the rain on his crops dries his clothes of the obvious signs and carries on in his ignorant ignominy .
(Sahih International)
Or [it is] like a rainstorm from the sky within which is darkness, thunder and lightning. They put their fingers in their ears against the thunderclaps in dread of death. But Allah is encompassing of the disbelievers.
-Sura Al-Baqarah, Ayah 19
(Sahih International)
The lightning almost snatches away their sight. Every time it lights [the way] for them, they walk therein; but when darkness comes over them, they stand [still]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken away their hearing and their sight. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.
-Sura Al-Baqarah, Ayah 20
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