Xamar wa Somali

[Banadiri Warrior]

Mogadishu comes from the Somali "sight killer".
I hear people say it was the "seat of the shah" to claim it as Persian however the Persians kept clear records of what they have done. We know Persians moved jews from one place to another and the exact locations damn near 3,000 years ago but we don't have a Persian source stating their influence in building a rich city on the other side of the indian ocean?

No xamari source mentions " sight killer" nonsense, the strongest opinions of the natives is that it's from maqcad shaah , maqcad meaning seat in Arabic and shaah meaning king in Persian but was also used by Arabs. The name xamar predates muqdisho, Persians didn't establish the city from zero they established their own neighbourhoods however

Mogadishu was an ancient sight much like zelia. The surrounding lands around Mogadishu were unsuitable for large agriculture and so it was sustained by other somalis along the river.
View attachment 296979
("The origins and development of Mogadishu AD 1000 to 1850, by Ahmed Dualeh Jama)

This plays into how the Somali peninsula functioned throughout history. The coastal cities relied on not just importing random shit from India, but it also exported. The things they exported came from the hinterlands by the Agricultural Somalis around the fertile south but most importantly along the river Shebelle and the Nomadic Somalis who had their own goods such as animal hides and cattle but also where the ones who transported foods from agricultural towns in the hinterland to the coastal trade cities along this river system
View attachment 296978

Banadiris traded within the interior from as far as Luuq, Afgooye, Mareerey, Awdheegle and other farming settlements accross dhoobey were the breadbasket of the coast

Think of of as the base of the economy in the Somali peninsula.
You can clearly see the Ajuuran empire was based around this whole system.
View attachment 296977

Incorrect map with no evidence backing it

If an Arab went to a supposedly Arab city in the 1100s, why would he call them Berbers (a name historically used for somalis) and not call them arabs like him? You reckon he would've recognised his own people but no these were different to him.
It's important to not he was greek as well, the Greeks were the ones who referred to us Cushites in the region as Berber and this greek boy still did.

Berber isn't specific to an ethnic group it's used to describe a region

And there are those who base their whole argument on the idea that somalis were a illiterate nomads who were allergic to the coast. A very stupid assumption.
Somalis did largscale agriculture wherever it was possible. Along the rivers in the south or the vast green lands of hararghe and parts of bale. And some dotted agriculture in fertile spots in the hinterlands.

View attachment 296976
("The origins and development of Mogadishu AD 1000 to 1850, by Ahmed Dualeh Jama)


Will add more to it later

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

Mogadishu is indeed Somali but the rumour that it translates to sight killer needs to die. The first person to make that interpretation was a random nigga on somalispot 4 years ago

No xamari source mentions that sight killer fairytale and whoever came up with it certainly wasn't reer xamar

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

There isn't a scholarly concensus on the origin of Mogadishu's name so its anybody's guess.

Nah there is, and it is that it's from maqcad shaah

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

Arabs controlled a coastal region in East Africa called Azania, which extended from southern Somalia to Tanzania (Rhapta). The coastal region of Azania, which included Mogadishu, Marka, and Barawa, was subject to Amir Sharahbil Ya’fir ibn As’ad Abu Karib. Please read the source below.

The Somali coast has certainly had ties of dependency with Arabia since very early times. Classical references include Herodotus, who makes mention in the 4th century B.C. of temporary settlements established down the East African coast by Phoenicians; and Agatharkhides, a Greek geographer living in Alexandria in the days of Ptolemy Philometer, tells us in 150 B.C.5 that the first permanent colonisers were the Sabeans from Southern Arabia, whom he describes as being strong, warlike and expert seamen.

They possess large ships and sail to the land of the aromatic products where they found colonies.... It is they who provide the Phoenicians with an endless variety of merchandise and prodigous profits.

Some two hundred years later the importanc "Periplus of the Erythraean Sea"" was written in Greek by an unknown Alexandrian merchant. It is a kind of geo- graphical and mercantile guide to the Red Sea, the East African and Arabian coasts. Part of paragraph 16, referring to the Somali coast, records:

The inhabitants of this coast, men of huge stature, are given to piracy; they live each in their own district, their own masters. In accordance with some ancient right, this district is subject to the sovereignty of the state that becomes most powerful in Arabia, and so is now ruled by the Mapharitic chieftain. From the king it is held tributary by the people of Muza who send there many ships with Arab captains and agents who enjoy the friendship of the natives, intermarry with them and thus become familiar with the coast and its language

Azania was basically banaadir coast and swahili coast, at that time Marka or barawa didn't exist however there were most likely other settlements established by them that overtime ended being buried by sand dunes

 

[killerxsmoke]

No xamari source mentions " sight killer" nonsense, the strongest opinions of the natives is that it's from maqcad shaah , maqcad meaning seat in Arabic and shaah meaning king in Persian but was also used by Arabs. The name xamar predates muqdisho, Persians didn't establish the city from zero they established their own neighbourhoods however

Banadiris traded within the interior from as far as Luuq, Afgooye, Mareerey, Awdheegle and other farming settlements accross dhoobey were the breadbasket of the coast

Incorrect map with no evidence backing it

Berber isn't specific to an ethnic group it's used to describe a region

Mogadishu means "station of the sheep"

 

[Emir of Zayla]

Himyar settled in Hamar and for periods of time controlled much of the East African coastal trade. There are literally Himaryite inscriptions in Mogadishu. Have you seen Ali qasims photo about the Himaryite inscriptions in Mogadishu?

If that’s the case drop the sources, don’t keep the rest of us in the dark. But there aren’t any, even if there were it’d be dubious.

"Ships from Himyar regularly traveled along the East African coast. The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea describes the trading empire of Himyar and Saba, regrouped under a single ruler, Charibael (Karab Il Watar Yuhan'em II), who is said to have been on friendly terms with Rome:

"And after nine days more, there is Saphar, the metropolis, in which lives Charibael, lawful king of two tribes, the Homerites and those living next to them, called the Sabaites; through continual embassies and gifts, he is a friend of the Emperors."

—Periplus of the Erythraean Sea, Paragraph 23.[10]"

What does this have to do with us? They’re not mentioning us as far as I can tell

I provided numerous sources on another thread but you keep disregarding them. You don't have the intellectual capacity or maturity to analyze historical sources with a critical eye. You can't reason with intellectually dishonest fools.

I agree, there are quite a few in this thread alone. You included

 

[Emir of Zayla]

No xamari source mentions " sight killer" nonsense, the strongest opinions of the natives is that it's from maqcad shaah , maqcad meaning seat in Arabic and shaah meaning king in Persian but was also used by Arabs. The name xamar predates muqdisho, Persians didn't establish the city from zero they established their own neighbourhoods however

prove it without any colonial texts and use historically reliable books and I’ll believe you.

 

[killerxsmoke]

Mogadishu means "station of the sheep"

View attachment 297091

@HabarSteven12

U laugh but somehow u cant debunk me

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

prove it without any colonial texts and use historically reliable books and I’ll believe you.

We don't use colonial texts , our manuscripts are sufficient .

 

[killerxsmoke]

We don't use colonial texts , our manuscripts are sufficient .View attachment 297142

No one said that, the one I showed is more authentic since it's an older source

 

[ibrahym]

Berber isn't specific to an ethnic group it's used to describe a region

No

 

[ibrahym]

No one said that, the one I showed is more authentic since it's an older source

From the same book used by @Banadiri Warrior
He says it means station of the sheep or Shah seat

 

[Zak12]

The bulk of the Arabs always lived in Yemen and Hejaz and this even the case today. The word “Arab” it self appears over 40 times in pre-Islamic Sabaean inscriptions. The term ʿarab ('Arab') occurs also in the titles of the Himyarite kingsfrom the time of 'Abu Karab Asad until MadiKarib Ya'fur. Even ancient Greeks referred to Yemen as “Arabia Felix”

https://pleiades.stoa.org/places/746710

Again, most inscriptions including the oldest ones exist in the north.

 

[tyrannicalmanager]

Sharif Aidarus mentions that Arabs were the first to reside in Mogadishu and much of the Banadir coast. Arabs inhabited Mogadishu way before the birth of Isa ibn Maryam. Read his book "For Hope's."

“بغية الآمال” written by the historian Sharif Aidarus.
سكان مقدشوه في القرن الأول قبل ميلاد عيسى ابن مريم عليهما السلام يذكر المؤرخون أن العرب هم أول من سكنوا مقدشوه وإن ألوان سكان هذه البلدة فيها - أسمر وفيها ما هو أشقر وأحمر، فإنهم من العرب الأقحاح الخلص) واستوطنت العرب فيها من وقت بعيد، يرجع تاريخهم إلى ما قبل الميلاد بمائة واثنين، وبالجملة فهم (العرب) قد دخلوا مقدشوه من نحو (٢٠٥٥) سنة. ما هو

السلطان أسعد الحميري.

قد حكم مقدشوه قوم التبابعة قبل الإسلام بثمانية قرون، وكان السلطان يكنى بأبي كرب، واسمه أسعد الحميري (حمير بكسر الحاء وسكون الميم . : هو

nobody is going to believes blond arab were the first inhabited of Mogadishu.

 

[Step a side]

Again, most inscriptions including the oldest ones exist in the north.

Graffiti on stones doesn’t prove anything. It just means there were Arab tribes once before living in the vicinity. The Namara inscriptions are from the Arab king of the Lakhmids, Imru' al-Qays ibn 'Amr. Banu Lakhm are known to have migrated from Yemen to the Fertile Crescent alongside their contemporaries Ghassanids, Judham and the Amila among others and were among the key contributors to the Arabisation of the Fertile Crescent.

 

[Zak12]

Graffiti on stones doesn’t prove anything. It just means there were Arab tribes once before living in the vicinity. The Namara inscriptions are from the Arab king of the Lakhmids, Imru' al-Qays ibn 'Amr. Banu Lakhm are known to have migrated from Yemen to the Fertile Crescent alongside their contemporaries Ghassanids, Judham and the Amila among others and were among the key contributors to the Arabisation of the Fertile Crescent.

Except when the oldest inscriptions are all from the north then it does mean something.

You are being really stubborn about this. Most historians believe the Yemeni origin of Arabs is a myth, there is very little to back it up.

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-the-original-Arabs-come-from-Yemen

"However, so far, no pre-Islamic texts in the Arabic language have yet been discovered in Yemen nor is there compelling evidence for the influence of Arabic on Sabaic, or other Ancient South Arabian languages, in Yemen proper. So while it stands to reason that Arabic vernaculars, perhaps moving south along the Ḥigāz, entered Yemen in the pre-Islamic period, evidence in support of this is lacking. It is very possible that Yemen was not Arabized in a significant way until the Islamic period"

"There is even less evidence as regards the spread of Arabic to eastern Yemen (Ḥaḍramawt), Oman and East Arabia in the pre-Islamic period. There are no preIslamic Arabic texts from these regions and, at least in the case of Oman/eastern Yemen, non-Arabic Semitic languages continue to be spoken there till this day. While no pre-Arabic languages survive in East Arabia today, the epigraphic record attests a shadowy language termed Ḥasaitic, stretching from the Ḥasā in the north to the Oman Peninsula in the south. The nomads of the Najd, Ḥigāz, and south-central Arabia produced a large number of inscriptions in varieties of the South Semitic script which scholars term “Thamudic”. While most of these texts consist simply of signatures, the ones that do contain more often attest languages quite distinct from Arabic, and most of the longer texts remain undeciphered."

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

View attachment 297146
From the same book used by @Banadiri Warrior
He says it means station of the sheep or Shah seat

Obviously anyone that understands Arabic would understand that it's not a majority opinion, he doesn't say مقعد شاة , however rather he says مقعد شاه which means seat of the king, the name came about after xamar was ruled by a king

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

Sharif Aidarus mentions that Arabs were the first to reside in Mogadishu and much of the Banadir coast. Arabs inhabited Mogadishu way before the birth of Isa ibn Maryam. Read his book "For Hope's."

“بغية الآمال” written by the historian Sharif Aidarus.
سكان مقدشوه في القرن الأول قبل ميلاد عيسى ابن مريم عليهما السلام يذكر المؤرخون أن العرب هم أول من سكنوا مقدشوه وإن ألوان سكان هذه البلدة فيها - أسمر وفيها ما هو أشقر وأحمر، فإنهم من العرب الأقحاح الخلص) واستوطنت العرب فيها من وقت بعيد، يرجع تاريخهم إلى ما قبل الميلاد بمائة واثنين، وبالجملة فهم (العرب) قد دخلوا مقدشوه من نحو (٢٠٥٥) سنة. ما هو

السلطان أسعد الحميري.

قد حكم مقدشوه قوم التبابعة قبل الإسلام بثمانية قرون، وكان السلطان يكنى بأبي كرب، واسمه أسعد الحميري (حمير بكسر الحاء وسكون الميم . : هو

Those were the early Arabs, there was more larger waves of Arab migration after especially during 1st hijri century and 2nd hijri century up until 7th

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

NoView attachment 297143

Those names he mentioned aren't names used by reer samaale: Xaramayn, Nuur, Sacaadah, Munye , Baanow etc

 

[Step a side]

Except when the oldest inscriptions are all from the north then it does mean something.

You are being really stubborn about this. Most historians believe the Yemeni origin of Arabs is a myth, there is very little to back it up.

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-the-original-Arabs-come-from-Yemen

"However, so far, no pre-Islamic texts in the Arabic language have yet been discovered in Yemen nor is there compelling evidence for the influence of Arabic on Sabaic, or other Ancient South Arabian languages, in Yemen proper. So while it stands to reason that Arabic vernaculars, perhaps moving south along the Ḥigāz, entered Yemen in the pre-Islamic period, evidence in support of this is lacking. It is very possible that Yemen was not Arabized in a significant way until the Islamic period"

"There is even less evidence as regards the spread of Arabic to eastern Yemen (Ḥaḍramawt), Oman and East Arabia in the pre-Islamic period. There are no preIslamic Arabic texts from these regions and, at least in the case of Oman/eastern Yemen, non-Arabic Semitic languages continue to be spoken there till this day. While no pre-Arabic languages survive in East Arabia today, the epigraphic record attests a shadowy language termed Ḥasaitic, stretching from the Ḥasā in the north to the Oman Peninsula in the south. The nomads of the Najd, Ḥigāz, and south-central Arabia produced a t large number of inscriptions in varieties of the South Semitic script which scholars term “Thamudic”. While most of these texts consist simply of signatures, the ones that do contain more often attest languages quite distinct from Arabic, and most of the longer texts remain undeciphered."

Again your quoting Al jallad. He is the only amateur that says that. You do know he is still a student right? Here you have another Arab student clearly debunking his claims. It goes against logic to take Al jallad’s vague claims over 1000’s of classical Arab linguistic scholars the Islamic world had produced. Al jallad is literally a student

https://academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1018&context=oaa_pubs