Why is a women cheating on her husband worse than a man cheating on his wife?

[jemappelle]

We are talking about worse being in Islam, as in disobeying Allah. If that was the case why is the had punishment the same? Why is there no references in Hadiths? Why does Allah mention both male and female believers equally with regards to fornication?

You can’t answer those questions whatsoever. So don’t expect me to take you seriously.

If a man kills 100 people he will get the same hadd punishment as a man who kills 1 person
You know that right? Hadd punishments don't deal with different degrees of the same sin, thats left for the akhirah

Why are there no references in hadith?Well why is their no references severity of lesbianism, child rape, rape, incest, in hadeeth? because we are not told everything
Allah groups female and male zaanis together, not because they are all equal in sin severity, but because they are all zaanis and have disgusting sins.

Allah never states they are all equal, and if you say that you have to provide be a tafseer otherwise you are making up lies.

people who commit zina do so of different severities, but we are not told about every situation in the Quran. you know a man who commits zina with 100 women is worse than a women who commits zina for one man, but they are still grouped up in the ayah about zaani men being for zaani women
the ayah does not say they are all equal in sin, you cannot say that

 

[jemappelle]

Incest is worse because it goes against human nature. Silly argument Wallahi. No one apart from a sicko has those views against a Mahram.

Tell me where in the Quran and sunnah it says that?
im using your arguments now.

Do you see how difficult it is to prove your argument that you have to resort to silly comparisons?

no actually you are proving my point alhamdulillah

My point is men and women are specially mentioned though. Whilst different scenarios weren’t mentioned, gender was most definitely mentioned. That is why your argument falls apart.

The genders were not mentioned to say they are exactly the same. unless you provide me a tafseer that says that, then you cannot say that
every man and women who commits zina does so of different severities, but both men and women have done an abomination, it doesn't mean that they are not different degrees of sin

 

[Angelina]

If a man kills 100 people he will get the same hadd punishment as a man who kills 1 person
You know that right? Hadd punishments don't deal with different degrees of the same sin, thats left for the akhirah

Doesn’t matter. We’re not talking about different degrees or different scenarios. We’re talking about a man and woman committing the exact same sin.

You’re literally comparing oranges and apples.

Why are there no references in hadith?Well why is their no references severity of lesbianism, child rape, rape, incest, in hadeeth? because we are not told everything

We know that men and women are the same with regards to the punishment of them committing homosexuality unless you’re now going to argue it’s worse for one gender?

Allah groups female and male zaanis together, not because they are all equal in sin severity, but because they are all zaanis and have disgusting sins.

Exactly. He doesn’t discuss the severity of it, hence you have no idea if that is the case with regards to Allah.

Allah never states they are all equal, and if you say that you have to provide be a tafseer otherwise you are making up lies.

Allah states that the fornicating man is for the fornicating women. They both cannot be with chaste people. Both have the same restrictions and punishments. That is the facts. You’re simply adding in opinions and I’m not interested to be honest.

people who commit zina do so of different severities, but we are not told about every situation in the Quran. you know a man who commits zina with 100 women is worse than a women who commits zina for one man, but they are still grouped up in the ayah about zaani men being for zaani women

The had punishment isn’t the same. Example? if I steal once and got caught I’ll be punished. If I steal again, I’ll be further punished with regards to the hadd punished. Hence talking about quantity is silly.

the ayah does not say they are all equal in sin, you cannot say that

Yes, I can. All the Hadiths about adultery talks about believers in general. Anything else is your mere opinion.

If you cannot find any opinion from Quran and Sunnah. I’m not interested!

 

[Angelina]

Tell me where in the Quran and sunnah it says that?
im using your arguments now.

The fact that women don’t have to cover from their Mahram is a clear indication that normal people do not have any sexual feeling towards family members. The Quran talks in detail about who women should and shouldn’t have to cover from.

Can you say that in the case of adultery which is easy for both men and women to fall into if they don’t observe ways to stop freemixing? Of course not.

Silly point indeed.

no actually you are proving my point alhamdulillah

The genders were not mentioned to say they are exactly the same.

So why were they mentioned in terms of having the same punishment? Why would Allah specifically tell us they should be punished the same if one is worse than the other?

unless you provide me a tafseer that says that, then you cannot say that
every man and women who commits zina does so of different severities, but both men and women have done an abomination, it doesn't mean that they are not different degrees of sin

They are mentioned clearly and we are told that they are for each other. If the gender is clearly mentioned and we know that both will be punished why are we not told that the punishment for women will be worse?

We aren’t told that, hence it is your mere opinion. If Allah doesn’t tell us, when adultery and gender is mentioned and the Prophet s.a.w doesn’t tell us in his Hadiths that are clearly detailed and the hadd punishment doesn’t indicate differences, then I’m sorry to say, you can’t tell me anything!

 

[Qeelbax]

thats why ppl need to get married quick and young.

its not that hard to keep your privates to yourself.

 

[aduunka220]

its not that hard to keep your privates to yourself.

yeah but some people cant control themselfs and harm themselfs

 

[jemappelle]

We’re talking about a man and woman committing the exact same sin.

You missed my entire point, it doesn't matter if the women commited a more severe sin the hadd punishment would be the same. just like 2 men one who commits 100 murders and the other 1 they have different degrees of sin but same hadd punishment
let me make it easier for you
If a man kills his own mother, and a man kills a drug dealer, both men will get the same hadd punishment
but we know that the man who killed his mother is worse in the sight of Allah, and will get a more extreme akhirah punishment
therefore your point does not follow, same hadd punishment does not equal same degree of sin.
So your first point completely failed

We know that men and women are the same with regards to the punishment of them committing homosexuality unless you’re now going to argue it’s worse for one gender?

Nope, its worse for men, women who do lesbianism Islamically have no hadd punishment, a man penetrating another man is the instant death penalty, lesbianism requires a ta'zeer punishment
homosexuality amognst men is much worse than amongst women and if you want I could write you another essay on why that is, it isn't mentioned explicitly in the Quran why homosexuality amognst men is worse, so what we do is we extract the hikmas behind this when observing real life consequences and deducing from Quran and sunnah

Exactly. He doesn’t discuss the severity of it, hence you have no idea if that is the case with regards to Allah.

We have an idea because what we do is observe real life, and use the Quran and sunnah, in order to see who has done the most harm.
Ok so ibnul qayyims statement, is a general observation of the harms of a women cheating on her husband, what he is doing is commenting on how the harms are much more, I listed this previously, this is general, it does not apply to every single situation, but it applies to most, once you look at his arguments, you see manifest harms in a women cheating both from an Islamic point of view, and fitra point of view, and seeing it play out in real life, therefore, ibnul qayyim is commenting on how this faahishah of a women in this scenerio is much worse than a mans.
So from both an Islamic and fitra point of view we can see reasons for why a women cheating on her husband is much more severe than the opposite way round.

You previously told me a man committing incest is much more reprehensible due to the fitra being against it, you didn't provide me Quran and sunnah, but if I was to use your argument of the fitra being more against something, it would prove my point that a women cheating is worse, which I have previously discussed. And this is something vaalid we can say, a man committing homosexuality is more against the fitra then heterosexual zina, therefore it is worse, even though we have no clear evidence that it is worse in akhirah punishment than zina, all we have is a difference in hadd punishment, which we extrapolate to say it is much more severe in the sight of Allah due to that reason

Scholars aren't making stuff up, they are smart, they bring in a whole load of evidence and make a conclusion, so ibnulqayim was making a qualified observation of what is worse.

An example would be, if a man has sex with a 8 year old, the zina is much worse than a man committing zina with a 25 year old. yet the hadd pnuishment is the same, they are under the same category of zina, it isn't mentioned in the Quran or sunnah that doing so is much worse in the sight of Allah
so what evidence do we go by? we extrapolate rulings, and general Islamic themes and concepts, observe harm done by this sin in real life, then conclude one is more reprehensible than the other. And noone ha a problem with this
you only seem to have a problem, understandably, because you are a women, and you feel like this is being biased towards men but if you look at it objectively, a women cheating on her husband, wit all the evidences given, is much worse than a man doing the same to a women. it is still disgusting for both, and they are both still counted as zaanis, but it is different in severity.

Allah states that the fornicating man is for the fornicating women. They both cannot be with chaste people. Both have the same restrictions and punishments. That is the facts. You’re simply adding in opinions and I’m not interested to be honest.

Allah never said they are equal in akhirah punishment.
they have same restrictions and punishments in the dunya. not in the akhirah.
I already proved to you countless times, that 2 people can commit zina, have same restrictions and punishments in the dunya, which come under this verse, but the severity of the sin be much worse, how many times do I have to tell you before you realize what I am saying is right.
Not all fornicating men and women are the same Angelina, the dunya punishment is the same but the akhirah is not, I have many ahadeeth on this topic.
Its not an opinion, it is a fact, a fact scholars agree on, there are ahaadeeth which discuss the severity of people committing zina at different levels, yet in the Quran, they are all referred in the same group, because the hadd punishments are not meant to be exact punishments for your crime, the akhirah is for that purpose
If you steal, one shirt from someone, then the hadd punishment is getting your hand cut off, if you steal, 1000000 pounds, the hadd punishment is the same
but we both know the severity of the sin is different

The had punishment isn’t the same. Example? if I steal once and got caught I’ll be punished. If I steal again, I’ll be further punished with regards to the hadd punished. Hence talking about quantity is silly.

Read what I just wrote before
also If a man commits incest and another has zina with a stranger, they have the same hadd punishment, and also are grouped in the ayah about zaanis and zaaniaats, lakin they have different severities of sin, and you know this yourself, yet they are not differentiated in the Quran in terms of hadd punishment, and all zaanis are mentioned in the same group, but they are no all equal in sin

Yes, I can. All the Hadiths about adultery talks about believers in general. Anything else is your mere opinion.

Actually thats wrong, ahaadeeth state different levels of severity for different levels of harm and severity of the zina committed, so we know for a fact not all zaanis are the same,

 

[jemappelle]

The fact that women don’t have to cover from their Mahram is a clear indication that normal people do not have any sexual feeling towards family members. The Quran talks in detail about who women should and shouldn’t have to cover from.

Can you say that in the case of adultery which is easy for both men and women to fall into if they don’t observe ways to stop freemixing? Of course not.

Silly point indeed.

Alhamdulillah, you have fell into my trap, well its not a trap, its more of a misconception.
Here you have failed on 2 points, but I am going to assume that your first assumption is correct, that being we can say something is bad based on the fitra.

Now, we know that, a man who commits incest is worse than with a strange women for the points you mentioned above.

now lets use the same fitra argument for men.
Now first of all I would argue its harder for men not to do adultery than women, due to their much higher sex drive, their much higher sexual needs, hypersexualised visual environment for men, the fact when women have their time of the month, when women are on medication or pregnant or the like, they cannot always satisfy their man, in fact in general, we see that most men would like more sex in their marriage in general compared to women, so it is clear not all men are being satisfied.
But lets disregard that entire point about men, even though it is a fact, lets just say for the sake of argument, its equal difficulty for both men and women.

Well, because of the points I posted earlier, we know, that it is more reprehensible in a womens fitra, to have sex with another man while she is married than for a man to have sex with another women while she is married.
I will quickly some up the points again since I am a nice guy
1. Unhygienic and disgusting for multiple men to be mixing their fluids in one women, no man on earth would want this, as opposed to women, a man can clean himself easily, women on the fitra are more open to men having multiple women, and a man being with multiple women isn't reprehensible, it is actually natural, and Allah allowed it in the Quran, nor it is uncleanly
2.Men have much more gheerah for a women than opposite way round, when another man looks at his wife he feels way more anger than a women would for her husband if another women looked at him, men have so much gheerah, they don't want any man o ever look at their wife, or them even be in the public engaging with men, whereas with men, women don't mind as much, as men are usually outside, being leaders, in the public. So when a women cheats on her husband, this destroys him inside, due to his intense gheerah in his heart, she also harms all her other male family members. this is not the same for women in anyway at all,look at all of history
3.The mixing of nisaab, is an Islamic principle, mixing nisaab and not giving rights of the child and cutting family ties and spending money on a child who isnt yours and not giving proper inheritance is thulm, and disgusting, and a major sin, if a women just did this by cheating on her husband, it would be sufficient to say the women committed a much worse sin
go back to my other 8 points on my first reply to you if you want to see more reasons, which are all valid, Islamic, and based on fitra

So why were they mentioned in terms of having the same punishment? Why would Allah specifically tell us they should be punished the same if one is worse than the other?

Because hadd punishments, as I mentioned before, do not deal with severity of the sin
If I do zina at 80 years old, and at 20 years old, I will have the SAME HADD punishment

Salmān al-Fārisi (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) said: "There are three (types of people) to whom Allah will not speak (on the Day of Judgment), nor will He purify, and they will incur a painful punishment: an aged person who commits fornication, a poor person who is arrogant, and a man who has made (swearing by) Allah as his goods; as he does not buy or sell without swearing by Allah.”
Sahih/Authentic. - [At-Tabaraani]

But here we can see the old person is more hated in the sight of Allah

They are mentioned clearly and we are told that they are for each other. If the gender is clearly mentioned and we know that both will be punished why are we not told that the punishment for women will be worse?

Because its not important to mention
we aren't told the punishment of 100s of things in the Quran
there is no mention of punishment for lesbianism, watching pr0n, pedophilia, incest, we aren't told punishment for any of those things, because it isn't necessary, the fact they will all be punished and go hell is a sufficient enough reason to abstain from them
all types of zina are referred to in the Quran when speaking of zina, Allah does not go into detail of the different categories or punishments, as that is not needed.


25:68
وَٱلَّذِينَ لَا يَدْعُونَ مَعَ ٱللَّهِ إِلَـٰهًا ءَاخَرَ وَلَا يَقْتُلُونَ ٱلنَّفْسَ ٱلَّتِى حَرَّمَ ٱللَّهُ إِلَّا بِٱلْحَقِّ وَلَا يَزْنُونَ ۚ وَمَن يَفْعَلْ ذَٰلِكَ يَلْقَ أَثَامًۭا ٦٨
˹They are˺ those who do not invoke any other god besides Allah, nor take a ˹human˺ life—made sacred by Allah—except with ˹legal˺ right, nor commit fornication. And whoever does ˹any of˺ this will face the penalty.
25:69
يُضَـٰعَفْ لَهُ ٱلْعَذَابُ يَوْمَ ٱلْقِيَـٰمَةِ وَيَخْلُدْ فِيهِۦ مُهَانًا ٦٩
Their punishment will be multiplied on the Day of Judgment, and they will remain in it forever, in disgrace.





Here, everyone who commits zina is mentioned as the same punishment, staying in hell forever and double punishment, why because all people who commit zina will have this minimum punishment and share in disgusting sins.
But
all people who commit zina are of different categories
Homosexuals are of the worst
pedophiles are of the worst
beastilaity
incest
but we arent told specifically what different punishments they will get, but we know these are all more severe than just normal zina with a girl, yet they are referred to in the same ayah as having the similar punishment, see in the Quran, 2 people can be described as having a punishment with the same words, but the meaning of this is different, meaning one can be a more severe punishment
my point is, this ayah, described the minmum punishment for zina, a person who does more extreme forms of zina, will get a more extreme form of this punishment, meaning more pain and longer lasting.

If you want me to go deeper into this topic, I can
I also recommend you read disease and the cure by ibnulQayyim RA to see the severity of different types of sins of the same category

 

[jemappelle]

its not that hard to keep your privates to yourself.

For you maybe
not for other people

 

[sagegreen]

Did you even read the article?

Yes I did. The fact that this needs to be discussed is bizarre

 

[jemappelle]

Yes I did

So do you agree with me now a women cheating on her man is worse?

 

[aduunka220]

So do you agree with me now a women cheating on her man is worse?

nope. both punishment is same

 

[jemappelle]

nope. both punishment is same

No it isn't who said?

 

[aduunka220]

No it isn't who said?

"Brutal punishments are given to men and women who get involved in the sinful act of zina. According to Islamic laws, for premarital sex, the chastisement is 100 lashes, while for adultery the adulterers are punished by stoning to death which is also known as Rajm or severe flogging. However, stoning as punishment for extramarital sex is not stated in Quran but is prescribed in Hadith. Hadith are the verbal mores connecting"

 

[jemappelle]

"Brutal punishments are given to men and women who get involved in the sinful act of zina. According to Islamic laws, for premarital sex, the chastisement is 100 lashes, while for adultery the adulterers are punished by stoning to death which is also known as Rajm or severe flogging. However, stoning as punishment for extramarital sex is not stated in Quran but is prescribed in Hadith. Hadith are the verbal mores connecting"

Thats dunya punishment not akhirah.
Refer to my previous replies to angelina so you understand how hadd punishments and akhirah punishments work
simply put, 2 people can get the same hadd punishment but different akhirah punishment
If you want evidence refer to my previous posts

 

[jemappelle]

@Angelina I am not attacking you btw I just love debating too much. I am also always ready to agree to anyone who presents to me the truth
But in this situation I know I am right, if you look at my evidences, what I am saying is a fact, no hard feelings, I know obviously men use this like AT to try and say men cheating is not bad, etc,,
That is wrong, wallahi men cheating is disgusting and Allah hates it and it is deserving of the death penalty, it is not acceptable at all, I also don't think women should be berated as much for committing zina, as it is a fitna for everyone, everyone should have the propensity to forgive people and be kind and not push people away from Islam.
That being said a women cheating on her husband is much worse in general than a man cheating on his wife.
No hard feelings

 

[TekNiKo]

I'm talking about gender here. Allah clearly talks about the fornicating man and woman in the same manner.

Who are we kidding its the same fudge all the same. Both men and women are punished in the grave for adultery the same way as described by the Prophet SAW in the hadith.

Now that we got that out of the way yes it could be argued that women displaying her ornaments to the world and putting on perfume also constitutes a form of visual zina. This is why they are prohobited from the caraf of Jannah

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is reported to have said, “If a woman wears perfume and then passes by people who smelled her perfume, she is then considered an adulteress. And every eye is liable to commit adultery.” (al-Sunan al-Kubrah)

So do women have more ability to spread the sin of zina? (Remember zina is not
only physical) then I would say yes! Majority of scholars even say a mughaaniyad or female singer is a spreader of zina with her voice! Subxanllah!

 

[sagegreen]

So do you agree with me now a women cheating on her man is worse?

No

 

[Angelina]

now lets use the same fitra argument for men.
Now first of all I would argue its harder for men not to do adultery than women, due to their much higher sex drive, their much higher sexual needs, hypersexualised visual environment for men, the fact when women have their time of the month, when women are on medication or pregnant or the like, they cannot always satisfy their man, in fact in general, we see that most men would like more sex in their marriage in general compared to women, so it is clear not all men are being satisfied.
But lets disregard that entire point about men, even though it is a fact, lets just say for the sake of argument, its equal difficulty for both men and women.

On an individual level that isn’t true. A lot of women are sex starved in there own marriages. The idea of men having a very higher sex drives isn’t a 100% true and there were scholars in the past that believed that women had just as high.

Also, men and women look at sex differently and they also cheat for different reasons. The idea of man cheating being more natural doesn’t hold up because women usually cheat for completely different reasons.

Example, if a woman doesn’t love her husband, her husband doesn’t satisfy her, had a forced marriage, freemixing too much ect. All of that can easily lead to Zina unless she fears Allah and doesn’t put her self in that situation.

Your whole angle about cheating is presented in a way to suggest that women don’t have desires and on an individual bases, there are many and I mean many women that have higher desires than their husbands. We see this alot on anon Questions with young women complaining that their husbands are only touching them once every two weeks or a month. Thank God these women fear Allah, because if they didn’t, think about how easy it is for them to fall into that trap? Marriage is meant to be a protection for BOTH men and women.

Also, I could easily flip your argument and say it is worse for men since they have halal outlets, whilst women don’t. Example, If a man’s wife refuses to sleep with him, he could get a 2nd wife, a third ect. If he can’t afford polygamy, he has the right to divorce his divorce wife on the spot. Yet, if a woman’s husband refuses to sleep with her, she has to try and get a divorce and that can take months and sometimes even years if there aren’t good Sharia courts.

I will quickly some up the points again since I am a nice guy
1. Unhygienic and disgusting for multiple men to be mixing their fluids in one women, no man on earth would want this, as opposed to women, a man can clean himself easily, women on the fitra are more open to men having multiple women, and a man being with multiple women isn't reprehensible,

Male cheating and also be incredibly unhygienic as well. STI don’t discriminate and many if not most especially in conservative societies actually get HIV and with other illnesses though their husbands cheating.

2.Men have much more gheerah for a women than opposite way round, when another man looks at his wife he feels way more anger than a women would for her husband if another women looked at him, men have so much gheerah, they don't want any man o ever look at their wife, or them even be in the

This point is irrelevant. This is world consequences. We are talking about men and women cheating in the sight of Allah and not of man.

3.The mixing of nisaab, is an Islamic principle, mixing nisaab and not giving rights of the child and cutting family ties and spending money on a child who isnt yours and not giving proper inheritance is thulm, and disgusting, and a major sin,

Yes, I agree with that. If you said it’s worse for women because of paternity, fair enough. I too made that point. But Islamically in the sight of Allah, the fornicating man and women are the same since the Prophet s.a.w never mentioned such a woman is worse despite having Hadiths about how someone older is worse than someone younger.

Also, we even have Hadiths about how if a woman cheats and has children with the man she committed adultery with, her kids will be ascribed to her marriage bed.

Yet, still we don’t have any Hadiths saying that such a woman is worse than a fornicating man. Why? The scenario you’re talking about has specially been mentioned by the Prophet s.a.w, yet he still didn’t specify that one is worse in the sight of Allah.

Salmān al-Fārisi (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) said: "There are three (types of people) to whom Allah will not speak (on the Day of Judgment), nor will He purify, and they will incur a painful punishment: an aged person who commits fornication, a poor person who is arrogant, and a man who has made (swearing by) Allah as his goods; as he does not buy or sell without swearing by Allah.”
Sahih/Authentic. - [At-Tabaraani]

You literally fell into my trap. If the Prophet s.a.w tells us that an old person committing Zina is worse than a young person, he could have easily told us that a woman committing Zina is worse than a man, but he didn’t.

So if he didn’t say that, who are you? Also committing Zina first and foremost is about disobeying Allah rather than just worldly consequences. It makes complete sense as to why an old person is worse, because they should have more wisdom than a young person. Do you argue that women have more wisdom than men? Just because of their gender they should know better?

But here we can see the old person is more hated in the sight of Allah


Because its not important to mention
we aren't told the punishment of 100s of things in the Quran
there is no mention of punishment for lesbianism,

Women are the twin halves of men with regards to punishment and deeds. The punishment for lesbianism is the same as being gay. That comes under homosexuality.

watching pr0n

we know that watching isn’t the same as doing. Hence there isn’t a punishment and many scholars don’t see it as a major sin unless someone views it frequently. Yet, If someone commits Zina once, that is seen as a major sin.

, pedophilia,

That is r-word and we know that the punishment for rape is more severe than Zina as it is seen as being corruption of the land and the ruler can even give the death penalty.

incest,

I told you, that goes against fitrah. You cannot compare that to a woman committing adultery. You simply can’t. If a woman isn’t in love with her husband, doesn’t get any sex ect, she can by her nature fall into it as the desire for another man will be there as she isn’t fulfilled by her current husband. A woman that fears Allah will try and get a divorce and then find herself another man. Can you ever explain the desire for incest? No, it’s a sickness but with regards to adultery you can.

we aren't told punishment for any of those things, because it isn't necessary, the fact they will all be punished and go hell is a sufficient enough reason to abstain from them
all types of zina are referred to in the Quran when speaking of zina, Allah does not go into detail of the different categories or punishments, as that is not needed.


25:68
وَٱلَّذِينَ لَا يَدْعُونَ مَعَ ٱللَّهِ إِلَـٰهًا ءَاخَرَ وَلَا يَقْتُلُونَ ٱلنَّفْسَ ٱلَّتِى حَرَّمَ ٱللَّهُ إِلَّا بِٱلْحَقِّ وَلَا يَزْنُونَ ۚ وَمَن يَفْعَلْ ذَٰلِكَ يَلْقَ أَثَامًۭا ٦٨
˹They are˺ those who do not invoke any other god besides Allah, nor take a ˹human˺ life—made sacred by Allah—except with ˹legal˺ right, nor commit fornication. And whoever does ˹any of˺ this will face the penalty.
25:69
يُضَـٰعَفْ لَهُ ٱلْعَذَابُ يَوْمَ ٱلْقِيَـٰمَةِ وَيَخْلُدْ فِيهِۦ مُهَانًا ٦٩
Their punishment will be multiplied on the Day of Judgment, and they will remain in it forever, in disgrace.





Here, everyone who commits zina is mentioned as the same punishment, staying in hell forever and double punishment, why because all people who commit zina will have this minimum punishment and share in disgusting sins.
But
all people who commit zina are of different categories
Homosexuals are of the worst
pedophiles are of the worst
beastilaity
incest
but we arent told specifically what different punishments they will get, but we know these are all more severe than just normal zina with a girl, yet they are referred to in the same ayah as having the similar punishment, see in the Quran, 2 people can be described as having a punishment with the same words, but the meaning of this is different, meaning one can be a more severe punishment
my point is, this ayah, described the minmum punishment for zina, a person who does more extreme forms of zina, will get a more extreme form of this punishment, meaning more pain and longer lasting.

Doesn’t matter. You’re bringing up different scenarios, when our conversation is about the exact same scenario, but different genders. Unless you’re going to argue that women have better control, better wisdom and fear Allah more. Nothing you say makes sense.

 

[jemappelle]

Male cheating and also be incredibly unhygienic as well. STI don’t discriminate and many if not most especially in conservative societies actually get HIV and with other illnesses though their husbands cheating.

Nope, the only time a male will get an STD is if he sleeps with a women who is promiscous, a man sleeping with a normal women will never give him and STD. also this isn't just about diseases here, its about the actual fact that it is disgusting to anyone to have 2 man having sex with one women and mixing their fluids together, a women cannot clean here private part as well as a man, so a man cheating is not going to be as disgusting since he can clean himself easily

This point is irrelevant. This is world consequences. We are talking about men and women cheating in the sight of Allah and not of man.

You seem to be ignoring the fact you used the fitraa argument to say incest is more wrong than zina with a stranger yet when I present to you an argument from the fitra perspective as to why cheating is worse for women you dismiss the entire fitraa argument.
Stop picking and choosing what you want.

Yes, I agree with that. If you said it’s worse for women because of paternity, fair enough. I too made that point. But Islamically in the sight of Allah, the fornicating man and women are the same since the Prophet s.a.w never mentioned such a woman is worse despite having Hadiths about how someone older is worse than someone younger.

As I said before we do not have ahaadeeeth on everything in the religion, there are so many things that we don't know and can deduce from observation and collection of evidence. We do not have extensive lists of what is more evil than the other.
An example like I gave a million times is lesbianism, we have no ahaadeeth on that, noone is going to tell me lesbianism is fine in Islam now or not a severe crime

You literally fell into my trap. If the Prophet s.a.w tells us that an old person committing Zina is worse than a young person, he could have easily told us that a woman committing Zina is worse than a man, but he didn’t.

What trap? Ahaadeeth are not an extensive list of all evil and good, you know that right.
Tell me hadith on lesbianism? you can't. tell me how bad it is. from ahaadeeth. you can't.

Does that mean lesbianism isn't a severe sin now?
The prophet sallallahu alayhi wasalam could have easily mentioned it, why didn't he?

Also adding onto that point, not everything the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasalam spoke was memorised. so we don't have all ahaadeeth about every matter

So if he didn’t say that, who are you? Also committing Zina first and foremost is about disobeying Allah rather than just worldly consequences. It makes complete sense as to why an old person is worse, because they should have more wisdom than a young person. Do you argue that women have more wisdom than men? Just because of their gender they should know better?

Worldy consequences actually account for a bigger sin, the more harmful and great the wordly consequences the worse your sin is in the sight of Allah. Did you not know that?

It is more agaisnt a womens fitraa to cheat on her husband than for a man to cheat on his wife.
The negative consequences of a women cheating is also worse.

Women are the twin halves of men with regards to punishment and deeds. The punishment for lesbianism is the same as being gay. That comes under homosexuality.

Actually no, you need to study fiqh, the punishment for lesbianism isn't the same as gay. as I said I need to teach you some stuff. Read this article for a start

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/21058/the-punishment-for-lesbianism

we know that watching isn’t the same as doing. Hence there isn’t a punishment and many scholars don’t see it as a major sin unless someone views it frequently. Yet, If someone commits Zina once, that is seen as a major sin.

There isn't a dunya punishment but there is an akhirah punishment

I told you, that goes against fitrah. You cannot compare that to a woman committing adultery. You simply can’t. If a woman isn’t in love with her husband, doesn’t get any sex ect, she can by her nature fall into it as the desire for another man will be there as she isn’t fulfilled by her current husband. A woman that fears Allah will try and get a divorce and then find herself another man. Can you ever explain the desire for incest? No, it’s a sickness but with regards to adultery you can.

Ok so as I said before, a women cheating on her husband is more agaisnt the fitra for a women than a man, just because a women desires another man, doesn't mean it isn't agaisnt the fitra, also the negative effects of her cheating, is much worse. There is a reason why a mans sexual desire is more emphasised in Islamic texts than a womens.

Doesn’t matter. You’re bringing up different scenarios, when our conversation is about the exact same scenario, but different genders. Unless you’re going to argue that women have better control, better wisdom and fear Allah more. Nothing you say makes sense.

Even if women has the same wisdom and sexual desire as a man and same fear of Allah(which is rare, women usually have way better control than men)
It is still more agaisnt a womens fitra, to cheat on her husband, than for a man to cheat on his wife, the negative consequences of her cheating, are also more negative than a man cheating on his wife.
that is my point, everything I said makes sense, if you think properly about it.