Why Dr Osman Supports Clan Federalism

[DR OSMAN]

@Somali Ugaas @Kheyre trust me ethio wudn't arrest u if ur dabadhilif and throw away the key like they did with 'yey' wax bay isla fahmi waayeen and i bet u it's post siyad barre somalia model must be negiotated by all the rebels before any military advance cuz he would've seen clearly chaos wud ensue, he was only freed when TPLF toppled Menguistu.

YEY was a big 'wadani' @whitehartlane

 

[DR OSMAN]

The question I have for @bidenkulaha and SNM thugs, if ur leaders were wadani, why didn't ethiopia arrest them like they did 'yey', jaajusin dabadhilifta runta wa idinka as u served their purpose the whole time, that's why they let u 'roam'. The Ethio ppl knew siyad was 'darod' and they know 'darods' are the most anti amhara ppl in somalia, so they let non darods run buck wild and keep darod busy with 'defence' constantly so they don't wake them up to the AMHARA THREAT. But guess wat look at oromo-anfar taking ur dir lands constantly, darod wisdom 'diideen'

 

[Jaale Ugaas]

@DR OSMAN we could've even avoided what went down after Barre was toppled but they continued to fight and even when he tried instate the Issaq guy they refused. This is his last message to the USC.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@DR OSMAN we could've even avoided what went down after Barre was toppled but they continued to fight and even when he tried instate the Issaq guy they refused. This is his last message to the USC.

The SSDF had a plan, 'yey' wud militarily 'rule' with his SSDF council as 'interim' govt to ensure lives are protected and govt can continue to exist, they already knew wat system they wanted as their name indicates 'democracy' front.

This means they wud've held direct elections post the interim period once the nation negiotates the technicalities of the election and the new 'state structure' system. If he was dabadhilif why wud ethio arrest their own 'puppet', their was a conflict is undeniable, why didn't they arrest snm/usc? well they must of served their purpose after reading their rebel manifesto. Plus menguistu was aware of the clan dyanmics in the nation, he wanted darods out, he assumed isaaq/hawiye are far easier to control, till today oromo/anfar steal their lands constantly and they cry 'why didn't' we listen to darod wisdom.

 

[Jaale Ugaas]

The SSDF had a plan, 'yey' wud militarily 'rule' with his SSDF council as 'interim' govt to ensure lives are protected and govt can continue to exist, they already knew wat system they wanted as their name indicates 'democracy' front.

This means they wud've held direct elections post the interim period once the nation negiotates the technicalities of the election and the new 'state structure' system. If he was dabadhilif why wud ethio arrest their own 'puppet', their was a conflict is undeniable, why didn't they arrest snm/usc? well they must of served their purpose after reading their rebel manifesto. Plus menguistu was aware of the clan dyanmics in the nation, he wanted darods out, he assumed isaaq/hawiye are far easier to control, till today oromo/anfar steal their lands constantly and they cry 'why didn't' we listen to darod wisdom.

Laakin whats with the raising of ethopian flag in Villa Somalia. That seemed messed up to me.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Somali Ugaas the remaining SSDF were told by 'yey' ethio r not bringing rebels together to construct a post somalia model and therefore he must of been suspicious of amhara intentions at the time and told them to negiotate with siyad barre and at least remain 'neutral' to see wheree the wind blows with the other rebel groups. PPL think SSDF were defeated have no clue, ETHIO arrested our leader, plus this sent shock waves in SSDF that ethio has 'terrible' plans for Somalia as they won't even bring rebel groups to negiotate post siyad model, so they went to siyad he was the best of two evils.

 

[Hassan Garguute Buldanana]

Next step is confederation, I support PL creating its own national anthem and having border control. Business is unrestricted and moves freely. We need to to create our own identity starting with adopting the osmaniya script.

 

[Dima&Damo]

Next step is confederation, I support PL creating its own national anthem and having border control. Business is unrestricted and moves freely. We need to to create our own identity starting with adopting the osmaniya script.

I feel it's insulting to our forebearers that we of all the somalis write in latin generations of dhul udugian was killed in the campaing osmanya is the way modifiy it a bit

 

[Bowda-dheer]

Centralism is very dangerous for Somalis it leaves us completely destructed once a power struggle occurs. Even federalism needs to be further dissected to allow true freedom to the clans like those federal states. Something like the United States where each town or city or county elects their own. I think this is what @nanat meant instead of cantons which are very small and weak that paves the way for the central government to rule them because they have no federal state to fall to for resources and money. Again I also concur with @DR OSMAN on his reply to @Gadhwayne about independence, it will make us more weak, poor and irrelevant. If such thing could happen the oil rich 7 emirates would each be their own country. We need strong federal states that give further rights of self-rule to the clans to elect their own mayors, governors m, city councils and so on.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Centralism is very dangerous for Somalis it leaves us completely destructed once a power struggle occurs. Even federalism needs to be further dissected to allow true freedom to the clans like those federal states. Something like the United States where each town or city or county elects their own. I think this is what @nanat meant instead of cantons which are very small and weak that paves the way for the central government to rule them because they have no federal state to fall to for resources and money. Again I also concur with @DR OSMAN on his reply to @Gadhwayne about independence, it will make us more weak, poor and irrelevant. If such thing could happen the oil rich 7 emirates would each be their own country. We need strong federal states that give further rights of self-rule to the clans to elect their own mayors, governors m, city councils and so on.

Yes decentralized federalism to the lowest level at the village where the govt is closer to them and reflects them and they conduct their own affairs locally. A unifying 'regional' organ is needed tho, cuz as u said, every tuulo can't stand on it's own, plus the benefit of a 'region' organ is they can oversee multiple districts and coordinate policies that work and provide lessons learned on things that didn't to every town.

 

[nanat]

Centralism is very dangerous for Somalis it leaves us completely destructed once a power struggle occurs. Even federalism needs to be further dissected to allow true freedom to the clans like those federal states. Something like the United States where each town or city or county elects their own. I think this is what @nanat meant instead of cantons which are very small and weak that paves the way for the central government to rule them because they have no federal state to fall to for resources and money. Again I also concur with @DR OSMAN on his reply to @Gadhwayne about independence, it will make us more weak, poor and irrelevant. If such thing could happen the oil rich 7 emirates would each be their own country. We need strong federal states that give further rights of self-rule to the clans to elect their own mayors, governors m, city councils and so on.

No I really meant Canton system, Switzerland has large and also very small Cantons.
For example Mj land is huge even if they let other Harti clans land like 75 of Puntland will still be under Mj possession.
Why force different clans into a state they're not committed to?
Many federal States are already unable to become functional state for more than a decade.
Only Puntland has a functioning system.
These Cantons will vote for parties and committee that will select a group president of 5/6 president, who will run the country 1 year each.
In such a system every clan will be satisfied and will be 100% committed to develop their land and compete with others in a positive way.
Clans or subclans will also be very satisfied at the federal level since every clan will be able to sit at the highest office if they play their political game well.

US system only works because the country has a strong federal government & they're filthy rich in terms of everything.
There's no gaajo to act irrational

 

[Macawisley]

No I really meant Canton system, Switzerland has large and also very small Cantons.
For example Mj land is huge even if they let other Harti clans land like 75 of Puntland will still be under Mj possession.
Why force different clans into a state they're not committed to?
Many federal States are already unable to become functional state for more than a decade.
Only Puntland has a functioning system.
These Cantons will vote for parties and committee that will select a group president of 5/6 president, who will run the country 1 year each.
In such a system every clan will be satisfied and will be 100% committed to develop their land and compete with others in a positive way.
Clans or subclans will also be very satisfied at the federal level since every clan will be able to sit at the highest office if they play their political game well.

US system only works because the country has a strong federal government & they're filthy rich in terms of everything.
There's no gaajo to act irrationalView attachment 258646View attachment 258647

Switzerland is tiny and is the same size as an average region (Gobal) in Somalia. It will not make sense.

 

[cow]

Dr osman so you are saying every subclan will have their own federal state. What about shared cities?

 

[nanat]

View attachment 258702
Switzerland is tiny and is the same size as an average region (Gobal) in Somalia. It will not make sense.

It will even make more sense in Somalia, because every canton will have enough land to farm, live, pasture, work.
No one will feel left out. Our current system is like sitting on a bomb and waiting for the eventual boom.
We all know that we've collective enemy from outside who's interest is in our destruction & misery. Xalane groups, Amisom, Gulf states, Iran & our neighbouring countries including Djibouti will jump on first opportunity to arm & support every angry militant group, clan militias and ask them to cause chaos.
Now most of clans have the manpower and ability to arm themselves including Madowweyne. We're not anymore in the 90s where our entire population was around 5-6 million & less financial ability.
Today every clan has massive diaspora who'll arm their clan militia & from their conflict entrepreneurs will maximize on this opportunity arm the clan rebels.

 

[Jaale Ugaas]

Dr osman so you are saying every subclan will have their own federal state. What about shared cities?

Everyone will take their share laakin only one clan can be madax for a state.
SL = Issaq
PL = MJ
SSC = Dhulo iyo Warsengelis idk how power sharing will work in that.
GM = The tuugo and mooryans
HS = XL
Baanadir = AG
SWS = D&M
JL = MX

 

[Macawisley]

It will even make more sense in Somalia, because every canton will have enough land to farm, live, pasture, work.
No one will feel left out. Our current system is like sitting on a bomb and waiting for the eventual boom.
We all know that we've collective enemy from outside who's interest is in our destruction & misery. Xalane groups, Amisom, Gulf states, Iran & our neighbouring countries including Djibouti will jump on first opportunity to arm & support every angry militant group, clan militias and ask them to cause chaos.
Now most of clans have the manpower and ability to arm themselves including Madowweyne. We're not anymore in the 90s where our entire population was around 5-6 million & less financial ability.
Today every clan has massive diaspora who'll arm their clan militia & from their conflict entrepreneurs will maximize on this opportunity arm the clan rebels.

Interesting, i think more research needs to be done to find a model that works, but I am sure all Somalis can agree on is that to never go back to Centralism

 

[anon2]

I think there are 2 viable options for Somalis. The first is the German model which is direct democracy and a federal system with some aspects of centralization, Germans before WW1 were extremely similar to Somalis in terms of their political issues. The second is something similar to the Chinese model, which is complex and I will try my best to explain it.

German Federal Model might work for Somalis, however stuff such as police, army, healthcare and education have to all follow a centralized approach. Everything else is up to whoever clan rules the land.

The Chinese Model is where local elections decide everything. It is 1 party however the locals have say in everything of their local jurisdiction. Sub-clans can "vote" to elect a representative, that representative votes to elect another representative and so and so on. Everything outside foreign policy is handled by these representatives and domestic institutions and leaders. They meet with locals, ask what is needed and report what is needed. Each representative is tasked with goals to achieve within a period of time and given funds. If they are unable to meet the need of the people in an appropriate they are ousted or jailed.

There is also a council called the Central Committee of 200+ people from across the country. These could be interpreted as the "Odays", "Garcaads" or "Ugaas's". They select the Politburo who then in turn select another 7 and those 7 decide on 1 person to be the "leader" of the country. The top 7 usually deal with foreign policy and army, while the Central deals with domestic Issues, the National Party deals with state wide issues, and Provincial Party deals with counties/municipality issues and so on and so on.. Everyone is tasks with goals to complete for each quarter of the year and given the money they need almost immediately. This is how China was able to develop so quick, you are putting a target on your head if you aren't able to meet the goals for the people who have elected you. This seems bureaucratic in practice but it's not and Somalis are not individualistic people so it might work. The story of Xi's rise is pretty impressive, he went from of these "Village Councilors" and transformed and entire village with his leaderships, then rose up to a provincial minters, then a very effective mayor of a city, and then a governor then joined the National Party and finally the politburo. In order to lead you have to show what you've done, you can't just come in with money and bride your way to the top. You need a record of achievements and can only advance if you've shown that you deserve it. Your "tol" can elect you but if you can't do much then you will not get far

 

[anon2]

Everyone will take their share laakin only one clan can be madax for a state.
SL = Issaq
PL = MJ
SSC = Dhulo iyo Warsengelis idk how power sharing will work in that.
GM = The tuugo and mooryans
HS = XL
Baanadir = AG
SWS = D&M
JL = MX

you forgot Awdal

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Next step is confederation, I support PL creating its own national anthem and having border control. Business is unrestricted and moves freely. We need to to create our own identity starting with adopting the osmaniya script.

The only people that are bothered by this are those who cannot do the same thing with their land. Such as the people who rated your post "MEH".

 

[Rationale]

Centralism is very dangerous for Somalis it leaves us completely destructed once a power struggle occurs. Even federalism needs to be further dissected to allow true freedom to the clans like those federal states. Something like the United States where each town or city or county elects their own. I think this is what @nanat meant instead of cantons which are very small and weak that paves the way for the central government to rule them because they have no federal state to fall to for resources and money. Again I also concur with @DR OSMAN on his reply to @Gadhwayne about independence, it will make us more weak, poor and irrelevant. If such thing could happen the oil rich 7 emirates would each be their own country. We need strong federal states that give further rights of self-rule to the clans to elect their own mayors, governors m, city councils and so on.

Why werent the Swiss cantons absorbed by neighbouring countries? Considering how small they are you would think it would be easier to gobble up. But the conderacy Helvetia has a centralised army and every man serves in the military and brings a gun with him home. They are ready to defend their country and historically spent huge junk of their revenue in military.

I think there are 2 viable options for Somalis. The first is the German model which is direct democracy and a federal system with some aspects of centralization, Germans before WW1 were extremely similar to Somalis in terms of their political issues. The second is something similar to the Chinese model, which is complex and I will try my best to explain it.

German Federal Model might work for Somalis, however stuff such as police, army, healthcare and education have to all follow a centralized approach. Everything else is up to whoever clan rules the land.

View attachment 258704




The Chinese Model is where local elections decide everything. It is 1 party however the locals have say in everything of their local jurisdiction. Sub-clans can "vote" to elect a representative, that representative votes to elect another representative and so and so on. Everything outside foreign policy is handled by these representatives and domestic institutions and leaders. They meet with locals, ask what is needed and report what is needed. Each representative is tasked with goals to achieve within a period of time and given funds. If they are unable to meet the need of the people in an appropriate they are ousted or jailed.

View attachment 258705

There is also a council called the Central Committee of 200+ people from across the country. These could be interpreted as the "Odays", "Garcaads" or "Ugaas's". They select the Politburo who then in turn select another 7 and those 7 decide on 1 person to be the "leader" of the country. The top 7 usually deal with foreign policy and army, while the Central deals with domestic Issues, the National Party deals with state wide issues, and Provincial Party deals with counties/municipality issues and so on and so on.. Everyone is tasks with goals to complete for each quarter of the year and given the money they need almost immediately. This is how China was able to develop so quick, you are putting a target on your head if you aren't able to meet the goals for the people who have elected you. This seems bureaucratic in practice but it's not and Somalis are not individualistic people so it might work. The story of Xi's rise is pretty impressive, he went from of these "Village Councilors" and transformed and entire village with his leaderships, then rose up to a provincial minters, then a very effective mayor of a city, and then a governor then joined the National Party and finally the politburo. In order to lead you have to show what you've done, you can't just come in with money and bride your way to the top. You need a record of achievements and can only advance if you've shown that you deserve it. Your "tol" can elect you but if you can't do much then you will not get far

View attachment 258708

Alxamdulillah you've come long way welcome aboard both systems are top tier. And only viable route that produces lasting stability in Somalia. InshaAllah it will gain momentum.