Why Does Morgan Get A Bad Representation?

[DR OSMAN]

Really?

Interesting, when people are using clan fables and fantasy and denial, it will show in their contradictions. Criticizes hargeisa civilians were killed but praises darod civilians are killed and then says you should never kill civilians.

I am reasonable at least I say, if you harbor animals you will be treated just like them because u have chosen to partake in their behavior and are no longer a civilian. If Siyad started killing people in my city for the actions of my leader, I would be questioning my leader why he is putting us in harms way and tell him to take it out of our city as we want peace. I wouldn't sit there and blame Siyad barre for any action taken against my city and people. It's a simple case of you made ya bed so lie in it!!! But somalis want I made my bed but I wont lie in it!!!

For example, If darod civilians in Mogadishu were harboring darod warlords and soldiers who were doing harm to other tribes under hassan sheikh rule, that's a consequence they will need to suffer for that behavior as they are going against the govt of the day for clan based reasons. I would show no sympathy for them and whatever occurrs!!! Iyaga gar-daran markas!!!

 

[Gambar]

u cant compare siad barre was using a massive military against unarmed people,

marka is clan fighting. very common in all of somalia.

You said nothing can ever justify killing civilians but you were gloating about what your clan did to Biyoomal as well as committing genocide against Darood.

 

[saywalahi]

You said nothing can ever justify killing civilians but you were gloating about what your clan did to Biyoomal as well as committing genocide against Darood.

it was just FKD, i didn't mean it if you read one of my posts towards the end you'll see i apologized.

 

[Gambar]

it was just FKD, i didn't mean it if you read one of my posts towards the end you'll see i apologized.

That’s fine, I’m just saying don’t be choosy with your outrage ina adeer.

 

[BenInHer]

This is a good thread too hear both sides of the story.. any level headed somali, who is well versed can debate Dr Osman.

 

[saywalahi]

That’s fine, I’m just saying don’t be choosy with your outrage ina adeer.

at least i admit its a bad thing, some people still trying to defend massacring innocents.

 

[oday1kenobi]

I am not sure but every news site I read, whenever morgan is mentioned he is called warlord, killer, etc like He was the one who started the civil war in Somalia?

Morgan was never the one who picked the gun and fired the first shots, it was the radical clan rebel groups who did that. He was merely defending the Somalia govt and it's disturbing he is referred to in the same light as aideed and abdiqaybdiid type who were instigators and did pick up the gun first and start firing at the government. Morgan was simply a reaction to the action surrounding him!!!

The final thing that disturbs me is, they have people like silanyo, muse bihi, abdiqaybdid, muse suudi all sitting in positions of government with no a damn word from anyone who are actually the real warlords that started the civil war and morgan hasn't got one position. Whats the deal with this?

No matter what anyone says, Darods never fired the first shot, history attests to it. Darod involvement was always a reaction to the first shots being fired by rebel clan groups across the nation, there is absolutely no denying that at all. If SNM didn't aggresively enter the country border illegally with foreign assistance of ethiopia which is the (first action) there would be no DAROD reaction. Same goes for USC, they entered mogadishu with force with the help of a foreign nation, Morgan and Darod simply reacted.

Darod part of the civil war was merely 'reactionary' and clan rebels were 'aggressors' that's the true history of the civil war of somalia and anyone who has any other proof, prove it or just shut up and stop mumbling crap on news site!!!

The WSLF (mostly Ogaden) armed & funded by afweyne was tasked to protect Somalis in the galbeed after the 77 war, but instead they targeted innocent, unarmed Isaaq nomads in the Hawd.

Isaaq elders pleaded with MSB/afweyne several times, yet all he did was create an Isaaq unit in the WSLF (Afraad) which was later disbanded whilst the killings & rape of nomads continued. It was the very same Afraad members that began the SNM that toppled the regime. The SNM began as self-defence.

Imagine fighting in the 77 war only to be backstabbed a year later! Isaaqs invested heavily to the war effort such as Col. Cali Xuseyn who liberated Qabridahare, Col. Kosaar who liberated Wardheer and Col. Askar who liberated Godey among many other Isaaq colonels, officers & countless soldiers and volunteers. There is even a video of a Mareexaan general praising the Isaaqs in the war.


As @Madman said, Somalia is in a mess because of people who think like you.

 

[Gambar]

at least i admit its a bad thing, some people still trying to defend massacring innocents.

Because they’re choosy with their outrage, it’s impossible for them to express outrage at two incidences of tragedy at once.

 

[DR OSMAN]

The WSLF (mostly Ogaden) armed & funded by afweyne was tasked to protect Somalis in the galbeed after the 77 war, but instead they targeted innocent, unarmed Isaaq nomads in the Hawd.

View attachment 35313

Isaaq elders pleaded with MSB/afweyne several times, yet all he did was create an Isaaq unit in the WSLF (Afraad) which was later disbanded whilst the killings & rape of nomads continued. It was the very same Afraad members that began the SNM that toppled the regime. The SNM began as self-defence.

Imagine fighting in the 77 war only to be backstabbed a year later! Isaaqs invested heavily to the war effort such as Col. Cali Xuseyn who liberated Qabridahare, Col. Kosaar who liberated Wardheer and Col. Askar who liberated Godey among many other Isaaq colonels, officers & countless soldiers and volunteers. There is even a video of a Mareexaan general praising the Isaaqs in the war.


As @Madman said, Somalia is in a mess because of people like you.

Is there incidents and dates I can review for this systematic abuse you are talking about or is it some authors fictitious accounts of history? Dates, Places, What occurred. I mean specific events, So I can say OK this happened. Besides the WSLF was in Ethiopia, it's got nothing do with Somalia as they didn't control the place!!!

If Hargeisa was discriminated, then gee what would call Gedo or Gaari-wa regions? That must of been persecution of the worst order as they lacked any projects that matched hargeisa and berbera!!! I can't believe one is using that argument when all somalis can quickly see how different cities benefited from siyad barre as compared to others. Even what we see in our damn eyes we are told to reject by these clannist for their clan crap!!! Untill reason wins, somalia will never recover. Anything against reason is just never going to work!!!! Hawiye n Isaaq must admit they got way more development then any darod regions, yet they are arguing this and we show em all darod states and lack of facilities and they just say 'ahhhh' it doesn't matter because their clan fable and fantasy is far better then rock hard evidence.

 

[saywalahi]

Because they’re choosy with their outrage, it’s impossible for them to express outrage at two incidences of tragedy at once.

its sad that somalis even defend men who killed thousands because he hails from their clan

if this is how somalis think like today, we have reached a very deep pit of qabyaalad, there is no rehabilitating these people

god help us

 

[DR OSMAN]

its sad that somalis even defend men who killed thousands because he hails from their clan

if this is how somalis think like today, we have reached a very deep pit of qabyaalad, there is no rehabilitating these people

god help us

You are the sort of person who says darod got more regions then they deserved but fail to explain why Hargeisa to Burco which 150 kilometers away from each other recieved 2 states or why borama to hargeisa got 5 states(awdal, sool, sanaag, waqoyi galeed, toghdheer) Thats 100 km each state since the distance is 500 kilometer. Yet PL Bosaso to Galkayo is 750 KM and it got 2.5 states(bari, nugal, north mudug) where-as hawiye got 4.5 states for the same distance Galkayo to Mogadishu 750 kilometers(banadir, hiran, two shabelles, plus half mudug). No explanation whatsoever in the inconsistency yet darod got more regions? I am being honest but untill intellect n reason wins arguments and not clan pride and denial, we aint get anywhere. If people reject evidence, we cant talk. Its like talking to someone who says the grass doesnt grow with sun and rain regardless of what evidence is provided!!! because intellect has been rejected and ignorance has been accepted!!!

 

[saywalahi]

You are the sort of person who says darod got more regions then they deserved but fail to explain why Hargeisa to Burco which 150 kilometers away from each other recieved 2 states or why borama to hargeisa got 5 states(awdal, sool, sanaag, waqoyi galeed, toghdheer) Thats 100 km each state since the distance is 500 kilometer. Yet PL Bosaso to Galkayo is 750 KM and it got 2.5 states(bari, nugal, north mudug) where-as hawiye got 4.5 states for the same distance Galkayo to Mogadishu 750 kilometers(banadir, hiran, two shabelles, plus half mudug). No explanation whatsoever in the inconsistency yet darod got more regions? I am being honest but untill intellect n reason wins arguments and not clan pride and denial, we aint get anywhere. If people reject evidence, we cant talk. Its like talking to someone who says the grass doesnt grow with sun and rain regardless of what evidence is provided!!! because intellect has been rejected and ignorance has been accepted!!!

said barre was the one who made the 18 state territories blame him, for gerrymandering darods.

 

[DR OSMAN]

The funny thing is if the 18 regions was drawn up again, it would work really bad for them as the only true justification is PL who should get a minimum of hawiye region number or SL is decreased in regions. Population of cities don't mean shit in regions, or new york would be 100 different states. States are formed on number of different factors such as geographic, population, and distance. You need to satisfy all three criterion for a state not just satisfy one or two. For example there could be 3 different rivers, mountains, terrain running in one given area, you won't divide it up into 3 different states just for that feature. Same goes for population, just because one city has higher population it doesn't justify it become 100 different states. Plus distance alone won't get u a state because the saudi desert would be 100 different states.

You need those 3 ingredients to have a state and PL satisifies it on all 3 criterions yet it's denied the same number of states!!!

 

[saywalahi]

The funny thing is if the 18 regions was drawn up again, it would work really bad for them as the only true justification is PL who should get a minimum of hawiye region number or SL is decreased in regions. Population of cities don't mean shit in regions, or new york would be 100 different states. States are formed on number of different factors such as geographic, population, and distance. You need to satisfy all three criterion for a state not just satisfy one or two. For example there could be 3 different rivers running in one given area, you won't divide it up into 3 different states just for that feature. Same goes for population, just because one city has higher population it doesn't justify it become 100 different states. Plus distance alone won't get u a state because the saudi desert would be 100 different states.

You need those 3 ingredients to have a state and PL satisifies it on all 3 criterions yet it's denied the same number of states!!!

doesn't matter in terms of number hawiye and darod are roughly the same, probably hawiye is a little more (according to the CIA), so in the end it's just clan politics as in if darood get X number of states, than Hawiye must also get that same number.
so far both hawiye and darod got two states, puntland is 2.5 so it is't enough to be considered two different states, but galmudug strong armed itslef into being a state because hawiye needed that extra state.

there is no real politics in somalia only clan/qabil politics unfortunately.

 

[DR OSMAN]

doesn't matter in terms of number hawiye and darod are roughly the same, probably hawiye is a little more (according to the CIA), so in the end it's just clan politics as in if darood get X number of states, than Hawiye must also get that same number.
so far both hawiye and darod got two states, puntland is 2.5 so it is't enough to be considered two different states, but galmudug strong armed itslef into being a state because hawiye needed that extra state.

there is no real politics in somalia only clan/qabil politics unfortunately.

Actually bro, having more states isn't good. SL is smart and So is PL. The more states you have under control, it means the more share you get plus it reduces the threat of competition and division to occur. Trust me, Hawiye are not smart on that aspect. The RRA are though, it will be hard to manipulate them as they are all in one boat ride or die style!!! Where-as with the hawiye they are technically in in 3 boats GM, HS, MOG...you can use them against each other and has occurred. Division is never strength sxb!!!

If PL isn't happy with Mog, it can gather up hawiye regions to boycot MOG, it weakens them cuz each of their regions are divided and will look out for each of their clan interest, so their voting bloc also breaks up easier and u can manipulate them to vote the way u want by promising something in return. For example, why wud HG vote for a hawiye as president IF he can vote for an MJ cud secure a PM spot? U see they are broken down. Our achilles heel is JL but we are in the same boat as regions so can share in interests.

To be quite honest I think federalism was really devised to break hawiye down, the worst fear is another USC a united hawiye bloc, when they are not united they are not strong and I think the forefather of PL genuinely wanted it this way!!!

 

[saywalahi]

Actually bro, having more states isn't good. SL is smart and So is PL. The more states you have under control, it means the more share you get plus it reduces the threat of competition and division to occur. Trust me, Hawiye are not smart on that aspect. The RRA are though, it will be hard to manipulate them as they are all in one boat ride or die style!!! Where-as with the hawiye there is in 3 boats you can use them against each other and has occurred. Division is never strength sxb!!!

most hawiye subclans have traditionally operated individually, but when you look at it things are falling into place because hawiye is mostly controlled by one subclan = hiraab

galmudug = hiraab president
Hir Shabelle= soon to be hiraab president
banadri= hiraab
vice president of SWS= hiraab

daroad has problems because their subclans are mostly equally balanced in political power for example

4 darod presidents = 2 (sade/mareexaan) , 2 (kablalax/mj's)
5 hawiye preisdent's = all hiraab


there is a clear leader in hawiye, but not so much in daroad hence, puntland and khatumo problems and OG mareexaan problems in jubaland.

 

[Jiron]

Unfortunately we protect our warlords because they were defending the "tol" but how dare another warlord attacks my "tol" . That is the mentality that has destroyed Somalia.

Please let us put forward our guilty adeers and let the reconciliation process start.

 

[Coulombs law]

most hawiye subclans have traditionally operated individually, but when you look at it things are falling into place because hawiye is mostly controlled by one subclan = hiraab

galmudug = hiraab president
Hir Shabelle= soon to be hiraab president
banadri= hiraab
vice president of SWS= hiraab

daroad has problems because their subclans are mostly equally balanced in political power for example

4 darod presidents = 2 (sade/mareexaan) , 2 (kablalax/mj's)
5 hawiye preisdent's = all hiraab


there is a clear leader in hawiye, but not so much in daroad hence, puntland and khatumo problems and OG mareexaan problems in jubaland.

Sorry buddy but Hirshabelle regional presidency will always be Xawaadle, the moment it is handed over to Abgaal we are packing our bags and start devising a serious strategy to create Hiraan-Land, read this. https://www.hiiraan.com/news/2017/sept/wararka_maanta1-142655.htm
Seriously we even relocated the capital to Jowhar and all the administration is there. What more do you want?

Plus Abgaal are perfectly fine with us having the presidency, since their focus is on benaadir and gaining a high representation there.

You are the sort of person who says darod got more regions then they deserved but fail to explain why Hargeisa to Burco which 150 kilometers away from each other recieved 2 states or why borama to hargeisa got 5 states(awdal, sool, sanaag, waqoyi galeed, toghdheer) Thats 100 km each state since the distance is 500 kilometer. Yet PL Bosaso to Galkayo is 750 KM and it got 2.5 states(bari, nugal, north mudug) where-as hawiye got 4.5 states for the same distance Galkayo to Mogadishu 750 kilometers(banadir, hiran, two shabelles, plus half mudug). No explanation whatsoever in the inconsistency yet darod got more regions? I am being honest but untill intellect n reason wins arguments and not clan pride and denial, we aint get anywhere. If people reject evidence, we cant talk. Its like talking to someone who says the grass doesnt grow with sun and rain regardless of what evidence is provided!!! because intellect has been rejected and ignorance has been accepted!!!

I don't get your point, why do you want the perception people have of Morgan to change so badly ? He will always be viewed as a cold blooded warlord, and there is literally no chance of him making his way into Somali politics which is what I assume you ultimately wish for.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Sorry buddy but Hirshabelle regional presidency will always be Xawaadle, the moment it is handed over to Abgaal we are packing our bags and start devising a serious strategy to create Hiraan-Land, read this. https://www.hiiraan.com/news/2017/sept/wararka_maanta1-142655.htm
Seriously we even relocated the capital to Jowhar and all the administration is there. What more do you want?

Plus Abgaal are perfectly fine with us having the presidency, since their focus is on benaadir and gaining a high representation there.



I don't get your point, why do you want the perception people have of Morgan to change so badly ? He will always be viewed as a cold blooded warlord, and there is literally no chance of him making his way into Somali politics which is what I assume you ultimately wish for.

Yes I want Morgan to return to politics, he was never a warlord but defending the national govt not defending a clan based rebel group. ppl like qaybdiid, muse sudi, muse bihi, those are vicious warlords and should be exiled from the country. I am sorry bro but I wasnt being traded like a slave in libya or dying in the seas to run away from my country with siyad in power, all that happened cuz of those stupid warlords and I hate them forever for it but it seems u love it. U need to get a mental health check seriously!!! I can't believe there are still people that are against siyad barre knowing what we have had for 25 years!!! Amazing we need mental health checks done in the nation. Do u like being traded like slave in libya if you do thats stockholm syndrome and a mental illness if u sympathize with the rebel groups who brought this country down!!!

 

[DR OSMAN]

most hawiye subclans have traditionally operated individually, but when you look at it things are falling into place because hawiye is mostly controlled by one subclan = hiraab

galmudug = hiraab president
Hir Shabelle= soon to be hiraab president
banadri= hiraab
vice president of SWS= hiraab

daroad has problems because their subclans are mostly equally balanced in political power for example

4 darod presidents = 2 (sade/mareexaan) , 2 (kablalax/mj's)
5 hawiye preisdent's = all hiraab


there is a clear leader in hawiye, but not so much in daroad hence, puntland and khatumo problems and OG mareexaan problems in jubaland.

Haven't you seen how easy it is for MOG to depose hirshabelle and GM? that is division and where-ever there is division it will be exploited and that's exactly wat PL wanted out of federalism, I didn't get it untill recently. It's not about competing federally and having the whole nation build or putting everything in one city. This is clearly a way to keep hawiye broken down separately, they are not a threat as a sub-clan and u have to admit that!!! They couldn't of done what they did in 91 if they weren't united but as individual clans, they stand no chance against PL.

The issues in PL and Khatumo isn't between PL, it's between dhulbahante who are fighting for power among themselves. SL N PL are just means to end for them. JL never ever was deposed like hirshabelle n galmudug is always deposed. Not even RRA state gets deposed. It's always the hawiye regions that get toppled by any president in mogadishu as they see fit!!! Is there problems in JL, yes but will it ever be overthrown from the outside hell no!!! Is there problems in PL yes but can it overthrown from outside hell no. Is there problems in Baydhabo, yes but can it be overthrown from the outside, no it cant.

There is a clear pattern there and hawiye days are over if they operate individually, this will be regular occurence for them sxb!!!