Why do non Arab Muslims have to pray and read the Quran in Arabic?

[horumar]

How do you know Allah is right? The Quran says Allah is right but what evidence do you have that Allah wrote the Quran? I could've written the Quran and you could've written the quran. Its like someone telling me something and me presenting that as evidence that that person is truthful.

No, you couldn't have written the Quran, you aren't fluent in classical Arabic, nor do you or i for that matter have the literary capabilities to create a book with such vast information in a small size.

The Qur'an is the word of God, Muhammad PBUH could not have written it because he was illiterate and it is the truth. The prophet himself was scared when it was revealed to him he didn't believe it at first but realised it was the truth.

Tell me FIVE things that prove Islam is true

Do some research

 

[axmedxajiisback]

No, you couldn't have written the Quran, you aren't fluent in classical Arabic, nor do you or i for that matter have the literary capabilities to create a book with such vast information in a small size.

The Qur'an is the word of God, Muhammad PBUH could not have written it because he was illiterate and it is the truth. The prophet himself was scared when it was revealed to him he didn't believe it at first but realised it was the truth.


Do some research

So God must have written the Quran because he's fluent in classical Arabic and has really good literary skills. So, if Shakespeare spoke Arabic, he could've written the Quran? Shakespeare had really good literary skills and can easily convey messages.

Such vast information? Did you read the Quran? It literally repeats the same verse like 9 times within the span of 23 verses. It rambles on about the unbelievers and says the exact same thing with slight changes over and over again. It's also riddled with historical, grammatical and scientific errors.

For example, the prophet Muhammad thinks Mary the mother of Jesus is the sister of Harun, brother of Moses, not knowing that those characters lived a thousand years apart. It gets literally every scientific fact wrong. For example, there is no stage of reproduction where a human starts as a clot of blood. This is absurd on its face. Also, the Quran claims that the sky is a solid object, pieces of which could fall down and kill people.

Why did you go to Islamic school for this and continue to defend it? You have no idea what you are doing and are programmed to say things. YOU need to do independent research and not just regurgitate what people around you believe.

 

[Khalid Hussein]

Are you sure about that? How do you know, besides reading the Quran? There is literally no evidence of what you just said. The only language that we know Allah knows is poetic, 7th century Arabic. We know that because that's the language the Quran is in and the prophet spoke.

Isn't God's knowledge infinte, it has no end he knows everything, general and specific.

 

[Khalid Hussein]

So God must have written the Quran because he's fluent in classical Arabic and has really good literary skills. So, if Shakespeare spoke Arabic, he could've written the Quran? Shakespeare had really good literary skills and can easily convey messages.

Such vast information? Did you read the Quran? It literally repeats the same verse like 9 times within the span of 23 verses. It rambles on about the unbelievers and says the exact same thing with slight changes over and over again. It's also riddled with historical, grammatical and scientific errors.

For example, the prophet Muhammad thinks Mary the mother of Jesus is the sister of Harun, brother of Moses, not knowing that those characters lived a thousand years apart. It gets literally every scientific fact wrong. For example, there is no stage of reproduction where a human starts as a clot of blood. This is absurd on its face. Also, the Quran claims that the sky is a solid object, pieces of which could fall down and kill people.

Why did you go to Islamic school for this and continue to defend it? You have no idea what you are doing and are programmed to say things. YOU need to do independent research and not just regurgitate what people around you believe.

God gave Moses the torah in jebrew because the Banu Israel knew hebrew.

God have the pslams in hebrew because banu israel knew hebrew.

Gpd gave jesus the injeel in Aramaic because banu israel lnew aramaic

 

[Khalid Hussein]

So God must have written the Quran because he's fluent in classical Arabic and has really good literary skills. So, if Shakespeare spoke Arabic, he could've written the Quran? Shakespeare had really good literary skills and can easily convey messages.

Such vast information? Did you read the Quran? It literally repeats the same verse like 9 times within the span of 23 verses. It rambles on about the unbelievers and says the exact same thing with slight changes over and over again. It's also riddled with historical, grammatical and scientific errors.

For example, the prophet Muhammad thinks Mary the mother of Jesus is the sister of Harun, brother of Moses, not knowing that those characters lived a thousand years apart. It gets literally every scientific fact wrong. For example, there is no stage of reproduction where a human starts as a clot of blood. This is absurd on its face. Also, the Quran claims that the sky is a solid object, pieces of which could fall down and kill people.

Why did you go to Islamic school for this and continue to defend it? You have no idea what you are doing and are programmed to say things. YOU need to do independent research and not just regurgitate what people around you believe.

The verse about the sister of Aaron ,eans through lineage

 

[bluebird]

So God must have written the Quran because he's fluent in classical Arabic and has really good literary skills. So, if Shakespeare spoke Arabic, he could've written the Quran? Shakespeare had really good literary skills and can easily convey messages.

Such vast information? Did you read the Quran? It literally repeats the same verse like 9 times within the span of 23 verses. It rambles on about the unbelievers and says the exact same thing with slight changes over and over again. It's also riddled with historical, grammatical and scientific errors.

For example, the prophet Muhammad thinks Mary the mother of Jesus is the sister of Harun, brother of Moses, not knowing that those characters lived a thousand years apart. It gets literally every scientific fact wrong. For example, there is no stage of reproduction where a human starts as a clot of blood. This is absurd on its face. Also, the Quran claims that the sky is a solid object, pieces of which could fall down and kill people.

Why did you go to Islamic school for this and continue to defend it? You have no idea what you are doing and are programmed to say things. YOU need to do independent research and not just regurgitate what people around you believe.

If Islam is a false religion, why is it anti-Islam propagators have to resort to making up straight lies as well as twisting information to make their points?

in response to grammatical errors, the Quran was known even by the kafirin of those days that it's grammar was imppecable. How is it some christian European orientalist centuries later can try to criticize it when MSA has different structure than the Classical Arabic of the Quran? In fact I'll bet you can't even point of these errors.

the Christians have always tried to disprove the Quran's history basing on their own corrupted book, for example the story of haman, who was the pharoah's assistant. It turns Haman was the name of the pharaohs assistant as confirmed by a tablet found, but before this they tried to slander the Quran saying it was historically incorrect.
The fact that you think the Prophet actually believed that Harun and Maryan lived in the same time period shows how clueless you are, when every other Hadith and ayat in the Quran makes it clear that Musa (as) came way before Isa (as)
ukhtaharun was a term of endearment used because there was a pious man in her era by the name of Harun, and she was similar to him in piety.

third, the Quran is in Arabic and it's written in a way and in the language of the people who understand it and HOW they understand it, we do the same thing in Somali, it doesn't mean it's incorrect but our language hasn't all the vocab and medical terminology, hence something in Arabic might be translated as a blood clot in one translation , but that doesn't mean it's the Arabic word that's used for an actual blood clot. And I've never heard this ayat about the sky falling so you have to show me.

Oh the irony of that final statement, At least do some decent research yourself before trying to disprove Islam instead of reading slander filled Christian anti Islam websites

 

[axmedxajiisback]

If Islam is a false religion, why is it anti-Islam propagators have to resort to making up straight lies as well as twisting information to make their points?

in response to grammatical errors, the Quran was known even by the kafirin of those days that it's grammar was imppecable. How is it some christian European orientalist centuries later can try to criticize it when MSA has different structure than the Classical Arabic of the Quran? In fact I'll bet you can't even point of these errors.

the Christians have always tried to disprove the Quran's history basing on their own corrupted book, for example the story of haman, who was the pharoah's assistant. It turns Haman was the name of the pharaohs assistant as confirmed by a tablet found, but before this they tried to slander the Quran saying it was historically incorrect.
The fact that you think the Prophet actually believed that Harun and Maryan lived in the same time period shows how clueless you are, when every other Hadith and ayat in the Quran makes it clear that Musa (as) came way before Isa (as)
ukhtaharun was a term of endearment used because there was a pious man in her era by the name of Harun, and she was similar to him in piety.

third, the Quran is in Arabic and it's written in a way and in the language of the people who understand it and HOW they understand it, we do the same thing in Somali, it doesn't mean it's incorrect but our language hasn't all the vocab and medical terminology, hence something in Arabic might be translated as a blood clot in one translation , but that doesn't mean it's the Arabic word that's used for an actual blood clot. And I've never heard this ayat about the sky falling so you have to show me.

Oh the irony of that final statement, At least do some decent research yourself before trying to disprove Islam instead of reading slander filled Christian anti Islam websites

I'm going to skip most of this response because it's typical Muslim apologist.

If Islam is a false religion, why is it anti-Islam propagators have to resort to making up straight lies as well as twisting information to make their points?

in response to grammatical errors, the Quran was known even by the kafirin of those days that it's grammar was imppecable. How is it some christian European orientalist centuries later can try to criticize it when MSA has different structure than the Classical Arabic of the Quran? In fact I'll bet you can't even point of these errors.

the Christians have always tried to disprove the Quran's history basing on their own corrupted book, for example the story of haman, who was the pharoah's assistant. It turns Haman was the name of the pharaohs assistant as confirmed by a tablet found, but before this they tried to slander the Quran saying it was historically incorrect.
The fact that you think the Prophet actually believed that Harun and Maryan lived in the same time period shows how clueless you are, when every other Hadith and ayat in the Quran makes it clear that Musa (as) came way before Isa (as)
ukhtaharun was a term of endearment used because there was a pious man in her era by the name of Harun, and she was similar to him in piety.

third, the Quran is in Arabic and it's written in a way and in the language of the people who understand it and HOW they understand it, we do the same thing in Somali, it doesn't mean it's incorrect but our language hasn't all the vocab and medical terminology, hence something in Arabic might be translated as a blood clot in one translation , but that doesn't mean it's the Arabic word that's used for an actual blood clot. And I've never heard this ayat about the sky falling so you have to show me.

Oh the irony of that final statement, At least do some decent research yourself before trying to disprove Islam instead of reading slander filled Christian anti Islam websites

I could respond to everything you just said but I won't. Let me throw this out there, though. How do you follow a religion where the people that follow it the closest (i.e. Saudi, ISIS etc.) are universally considered (even by many Muslims) as the worst humans out there?

Here's what I mean; there is global outrage at ISIS for taking captured girls as sex slaves, destroying churches, subjugating Christians, killing Shias outright etc. I have a question for you: how do you live with yourself if the one universally bad thing is the best example of your religion?

 

[Dino]

I'm going to skip most of this response because it's typical Muslim apologist.


I could respond to everything you just said but I won't. Let me throw this out there, though. How do you follow a religion where the people that follow it the closest (i.e. Saudi, ISIS etc.) are universally considered (even by many Muslims) as the worst humans out there?

Here's what I mean; there is global outrage at ISIS for taking captured girls as sex slaves, destroying churches, subjugating Christians, killing Shias outright etc. I have a question for you: how do you live with yourself if the one universally bad thing is the best example of your religion?

If you thought islam was all about destroying churches and subjugating christians there would not be a single living syrian, egyptian or jordanian christian alive today in the middle east. The Church of the Holy Sepulchre would have been razed to the ground 1400 years ago by umar ibn al khattab. There was no west back then to stop muslims son


In short, you are taking out of your posterior as usual

 

[bluebird]

I'm going to skip most of this response because it's typical Muslim apologist.


I could respond to everything you just said but I won't. Let me throw this out there, though. How do you follow a religion where the people that follow it the closest (i.e. Saudi, ISIS etc.) are universally considered (even by many Muslims) as the worst humans out there?

Here's what I mean; there is global outrage at ISIS for taking captured girls as sex slaves, destroying churches, subjugating Christians, killing Shias outright etc. I have a question for you: how do you live with yourself if the one universally bad thing is the best example of your religion?

What do you mean typical Muslim apologist I'm correcting your false statements if you were a Christian I'd understand but as an ex Muslim who grew up in a Muslim household don't tell me you grew up believing we believe Maryam (as) was Musa (as)'s sister you just saw something they use against Islam and mindlessly jumped on the bandwagon. If you think you're right you need to back up your claims not chicken out when someone calls you out on your ignorance.


And on your next part our Prophet (pbuh) told us about these people in detail more than one thousand yrs ago and that and all the other things going on, it only tells me the time of dajjal is getting closer.

 

[axmedxajiisback]

What do you mean typical Muslim apologist I'm correcting your false statements if you were a Christian I'd understand but as an ex Muslim who grew up in a Muslim household don't tell me you grew up believing we believe Maryam (as) was Musa (as)'s sister you just saw something they use against Islam and mindlessly jumped on the bandwagon. If you think you're right you need to back up your claims not chicken out when someone calls you out on your ignorance.


And on your next part our Prophet (pbuh) told us about these people in detail more than one thousand yrs ago and that and all the other things going on, it only tells me the time of dajjal is getting closer.

I can guarantee you, right now, that Dajjal is not getting closer. In fact, he wasn't on the way in the first place. If you believe in the antichrist (Dajjal), you should know that he's a Christian character who comes out in the end of time to oppose Christ when Christ says he's god. I hope you also know that Muhammad took popular (and core) Christian beliefs and twisted them to make himself relevant

For example, the Islamic version of Jesus makes no sense unless you consider what Muhammad was trying to achieve. It appears that Muhammad diminishes the role of Jesus (deity) by falsifying his crucifixion, rise from the dead and claim to deity and inserting a claim that it must've been someone else who was killed.

 

[bluebird]

I can guarantee you, right now, that Dajjal is not getting closer. In fact, he wasn't on the way in the first place. If you believe in the antichrist (Dajjal), you should know that he's a Christian character who comes out in the end of time to oppose Christ when Christ says he's god. I hope you also know that Muhammad took popular (and core) Christian beliefs and twisted them to make himself relevant

For example, the Islamic version of Jesus makes no sense unless you consider what Muhammad was trying to achieve. It appears that Muhammad diminishes the role of Jesus (deity) by falsifying his crucifixion, rise from the dead and claim to deity and inserting a claim that it must've been someone else who was killed.

why do i get a feeling your a Christian pretending to be atheist? Why the hell would an atheist try to disprove Islam using the bible only an idiot or a Christian who can't be honest with himself

and the Islamic version of Jesus makes perfect sense because it fits in with the same message as the rest of the prophets.

I know now after this statement you are not an ex Muslim, no ex muslim would be this clueless about a religion he grew up with. walahi the amount of mistakes your making is of a Christian charlatan who was sent with a message and never picked up any Islamic literature himself

 

[axmedxajiisback]

why do i get a feeling your a Christian pretending to be atheist? Why the hell would an atheist try to disprove Islam using the bible only an idiot or a Christian who can't be honest with himself

and the Islamic version of Jesus makes perfect sense because it fits in with the same message as the rest of the prophets.

I know now after this statement you are not an ex Muslim, no ex muslim would be this clueless about a religion he grew up with. walahi the amount of mistakes your making is of a Christian charlatan who was sent with a message and never picked up any Islamic literature himself

The same message as the rest of the prophets, according to the Quran, which is what's in dispute here. Idiot. I'm not a Christian but I know what it is about and I can see through your prophet's distortion of Christianity to make himself relevant.

 

[bluebird]

The same message as the rest of the prophets, according to the Quran, which is what's in dispute here. Idiot. I'm not a Christian but I know what it is about and I can see through your prophet's distortion of Christianity to make himself relevant.

why don't we ask some of the actual atheists here. Even atheists can agree that between Islam and Christianity, Christianity is the more "distorted" one. I have never in my life seen an atheist who tries to argue using the bible and modern day Christianity aka Paul the deciever to disprove Islam. Not to mention how misinformed you are for a Somali person about Islam, it raises red flags

 

[axmedxajiisback]

why don't we ask some of the actual atheists here. Even atheists can agree that between Islam and Christianity, Christianity is the more "distorted" one. I have never in my life seen an atheist who tries to argue using the bible and modern day Christianity aka Paul the deciever to disprove Islam. Not to mention how misinformed you are for a Somali person about Islam, it raises red flags

You should also understand what atheists on this forum are about. They literally believe everything came from nothing and that god's existence is not possible. I DON'T believe that. I'm open to the idea of god so long as it makes sense. I view it with an objective lens, not what my mom and dad and people at dugsi told me.

 

[Khalid Hussein]

Tell me FIVE things that prove Islam is true

Prove to me why isiam is false

 

[Khalid Hussein]

You were taught with translation? Did you read Surah 18, verse 86, which recounts the story of Dhul Qarnayn finding the sun setting in a muddy spring, out in the west? Do you not know that the sun doesn't actually "set" and definitely not on earth in a muddy pool? If so, then why on earth would an all-powerful, all-knowing god recycle 7th century legends and myths and put it in the Quran?

And before you claim that the chapter means something else, there's an authentic hadith where the prophet asks someone if knows where the sun sets, and then tells him that it sets in a spring of muddy water. So, you read the Quran, came across these preposterous things, and continued being Muslim? WTF?

Infact you fabricate it, says
وَجَدَهَا

Did you read
it said

حَتَّىٰ إِذَا بَلَغَ مَغْرِبَ الشَّمْسِ وَجَدَهَا تَغْرُبُ فِي عَيْنٍ حَمِئَةٍ وَوَجَدَ عِندَهَا قَوْمًا ۗ قُلْنَا يَا ذَا الْقَرْنَيْنِ إِمَّا أَن تُعَذِّبَ وَإِمَّا أَن تَتَّخِذَ فِيهِمْ حُسْنًا

وَجَدَهَا he found it, this refers to his perception or his sight. He thought it set on muddy springs.


You don't understand that Dul qarynan is a man and his perception he found it see the sun set in muddy springs, but it doesn't say it actually it literally sun set.

Where is your hadith, bring me your proof.
Give me number and book.

 

[axmedxajiisback]

Prove to me why isiam is false

1. Quran revelations always suited Muhammad's needs at the time, whether it was permitting him to have as many wives as he wants while everyone can have four or how he got a verse that told him he could married the wife of his adopted son Zaid. There are many other convenient things that only served Muhammad's purposes at the time. For example Muhammad was caught having sex with his slave girl and when he was the subject of ridicule and suspicion, an ayah came down telling him to not forbid himself from what Allah allowed him. These verses have zero impact on the lives of Muslims and only served to make Muhammad happy.

2. The Quran recycles 7th century legends and myths. The example of DulQarnayn was well-documented before the time of Muhammad. The man with the horns who traveled all the way to the west of the world and found the sun setting in a muddy spring of water. This is obviously not true and an all-powerful god would not bother telling you about it.

3. The story about the end of time is retarded. The story of Gog and Magog is comical and doesn't say much good about Allah. First, billions of people are locked away somewhere on this earth that we can't see. They dig out of that place everyday but forget to say inshallah, so when they go to sleep, they have to start over in the morning; in the end of times, they WILL eventually say inshallah and god will get tricked and let them out. I hope you can see what's wrong with this.

4. The example of Muhammad is not noble. He had slaves and sex slaves, referred to Ethiopians as raisin-heads, murdered and tortured people and ordered his followers to do the same, hence Jihad. An all-powerful, all-knowing god would not send someone like that to teach humanity. Rape, murder, conquest, terrorism and bigotry CANNOT be good.

 

[axmedxajiisback]

Infact you fabricate it, says
وَجَدَهَا

Did you read
it said

حَتَّىٰ إِذَا بَلَغَ مَغْرِبَ الشَّمْسِ وَجَدَهَا تَغْرُبُ فِي عَيْنٍ حَمِئَةٍ وَوَجَدَ عِندَهَا قَوْمًا ۗ قُلْنَا يَا ذَا الْقَرْنَيْنِ إِمَّا أَن تُعَذِّبَ وَإِمَّا أَن تَتَّخِذَ فِيهِمْ حُسْنًا

وَجَدَهَا he found it, this refers to his perception or his sight. He thought it set on muddy springs.


You don't understand that Dul qarynan is a man and his perception he found it see the sun set in muddy springs, but it doesn't say it actually it literally sun set.

Where is your hadith, bring me your proof.
Give me number and book.

So the all-knowing god wrote something in the Quran that he doesn't mean? Why cause all this confusion? And if it means his perception, why did he travel to the west where the sun sets? Couldn't he have just stayed put and see the sun setting? You're desperate to find excuses.

Here's the hadith that proves this ayah means what it says.

Sunan Abu Dawud 3991—Abu Dharr said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water.

 

[Khalid Hussein]

1. Quran revelations always suited Muhammad's needs at the time, whether it was permitting him to have as many wives as he wants while everyone can have four or how he got a verse that told him he could married the wife of his adopted son Zaid. There are many other convenient things that only served Muhammad's purposes at the time. For example Muhammad was caught having sex with his slave girl and when he was the subject of ridicule and suspicion, an ayah came down telling him to not forbid himself from what Allah allowed him. These verses have zero impact on the lives of Muslims and only served to make Muhammad happy.

2. The Quran recycles 7th century legends and myths. The example of DulQarnayn was well-documented before the time of Muhammad. The man with the horns who traveled all the way to the west of the world and found the sun setting in a muddy spring of water. This is obviously not true and an all-powerful god would not bother telling you about it.

3. The story about the end of time is retarded. The story of Gog and Magog is comical and doesn't say much good about Allah. First, billions of people are locked away somewhere on this earth that we can't see. They dig out of that place everyday but forget to say inshallah, so when they go to sleep, they have to start over in the morning; in the end of times, they WILL eventually say inshallah and god will get tricked and let them out. I hope you can see what's wrong with this.

4. The example of Muhammad is not noble. He had slaves and sex slaves, referred to Ethiopians as raisin-heads, murdered and tortured people and ordered his followers to do the same, hence Jihad. An all-powerful, all-knowing god would not send someone like that to teach humanity. Rape, murder, conquest, terrorism and bigotry CANNOT be good.

1. Having 11 wives is not a issue, Solomon according to the old testament had 99 wives, count on that, God allowed him to marry for many reasons one of them political reason like tribes and islam to flourish.

2.i told you about that

3. It signs of the end times not God, they are many places on this earth that we haven't discovered, Gog and magog are locked away from us by sight, no Gps will find it.

4. He had no sex slaves, even have no evidences. the hadith say listen to your leader of he was a rasisn head. This doesn't the prophet rascit because he said to your leader if he is black, imagine all white people listening to a black leader, does that make him rascit to his fellow people. The prophet only killed one man in his whole life time. The prophet never had any childern from any women apart from khadijah, who was 15 years older than him. He wasn't rapist if he had no childern with any of his wives lapart from khadijah.

Jihad means to struggle, you struggle to spread islam everywhere.

 

[Khalid Hussein]

So the all-knowing god wrote something in the Quran that he doesn't mean? Why cause all this confusion? And if it means his perception, why did he travel to the west where the sun sets? Couldn't he have just stayed put and see the sun setting? You're desperate to find excuses.

Here's the hadith that proves this ayah means what it says.

Sunan Abu Dawud 3991—Abu Dharr said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water.

I think this should help

The hadeeth of Abu Dharr (may Allah be pleased with him) which describes the place where the sun goes was narrated via Ibraaheem ibn Yazeed at-Taymi, from his father, from Abu Dharr, from the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him.

It was narrated from Ibraaheem at-Taymi by al-Hakam ibn ‘Utaybah, al-A‘mash, Fudayl ibn Ghazwaan, Haroon ibn Sa‘d, and Moosa ibn al-Musayyab, as was stated by Ibn Mandah in al-Eemaan (2/926)

They narrated it via two isnaads:

The first isnaad:

It was narrated by al-A‘mash, Yoonus ibn ‘Ubayd, Moosa ibn al-Musayyab and Haroon ibn Sa‘d. In this report it says that the sun goes and prostrates beneath the Throne or before its Lord; there is no mention of a spring of warm water. It appears in several versions, of which we will mention one here:

It was narrated that Abu Dharr (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said to Abu Dharr when the sun set: “Do you know where it goes?” I said: Allah and His Messenger know best. He said: “It goes and prostrates beneath the Throne, then it asks for permission (to rise) and permission is given to it. Soon it will prostrate, but it will not be accepted from it, and it will ask for permission (to rise) but permission will not be given to it; it will be said to it: “Go back to where you came from.’ So it will rise from its place of setting, and that is what Allah, may He be glorified, refers to in the verse (interpretation of the meaning): “And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term (appointed). That is the Decree of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing” [Yaa-Seen 36:38].

It was narrated via A‘mash by al-Bukhaari in his Saheeh (no. 3199, 4802 and 7424); Muslim in his Saheeh (no. 159); Abu Dawood at-Tayaalisi in al-Musnad (1/368); Ahmad in al-Musnad (35/282, 429); at-Tirmidhi in as-Sunan (no. 2186, 3227 – he said: It is hasan saheeh; an-Nasaa’i in as-Sunan al-Kubra (10/229); at-Tabari in Jaami‘ al-Bayaan, 20/516); al-Bazzaar in al-Bahr al-Zukhaar (9/409); Abu ‘Awaanah in al-Mustakhraj (1/100-101); at-Tahhaawi in Sharh Mushkil al-Athaar (1/254); Ibn Hibbaan in his Saheeh (14/24); al-Qutay‘i in Juz’ al-Alf Dinar (p. 183); Abu Nu‘aym in al-Musnad al-Mustakhraj ‘ala Saheeh Muslim (1/222); al-Baghawi in at-Tafseer (4/14); Abu ash-Shaykh in al-‘Azamah (4/1192); Ibn Mandah in al-Eemaan (2/924) and at-Tawheed (1/134, 135); Ibn Bashraan in al-Amaali (p. 159); al-Bayhaqi in al-Asma wa as-Sifaat (2/273); Ibn ‘Asaakir in al-Mu‘jam (2/1015); Abu Nu‘aym in Hilyat al-Awliya’ (4/216) and others.

It was narrated via Yoonus ibn ‘Ubayd by Imam Muslim in his Saheeh (no. 159); an-Nasaa’i in as-Sunan al-Kubra (10/96); at-Tabari in Jaami‘ al-Bayaan (12/249); Abu ‘Awaanah in al-Mustakhraj (1/100); Abu al-‘Abbaas as-Siraaj in Hadeeth as-Siraaj (3/258); Ibn Hibbaan in his Saheeh (14/21); Abu ash-Shaykh in al-‘Azamah (4/1189); Ibn Mandah in al-Eemaan (2/925, 926) and in at-Tawheed (1/136); Abu Nu‘aym in al-Mustakhraj (1/221).

It was narrated via Moosa ibn al-Musayyab by: Abu ash-Shaykh al-Asbahaani in al-‘Azamah (4/1188);

And via Haroon ibn Sa‘d by at-Tabaraani in al-Mu‘jam al-Kabeer (4/373); Abu ash-Shaykh al-Asbahaani in al-‘Azamah (4/1190).

Abu Nu‘aym (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

This is a saheeh hadeeth on which they (the hadeeth scholars) are agreed, from the hadeeth of al-A‘mash from Sufyaan ath-Thawri and others. It was narrated from at-Taymi al-Hakam ibn ‘Utaybah, Fudayl ibn ‘Umayr, Haaroon ibn Sa‘d, Moosa ibn al-Musayyab, Habeeb ibn Abi al-Ashras, and from Yoonus ibn ‘Umayd among the Basris.

End quote from Hilyat al-Awliya’ (4/216)

The second isnaad:

It was narrated by al-Hakam ibn ‘Utaybah only, from Ibraaheem at-Taymi; in this report it says that the sun sets in a spring of warm water.

It was narrated that Abu Dharr said: I was riding behind the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) when he was on a donkey and the sun was setting. He said: “Do you know where this (sun) sets?” I said: Allah and His Messenger know best. He said: “It sets in a spring of warm water (innaha taghrubu fi ‘aynin haamiyah).”

Narrated by Ahmad in al-Musnad (35/363); Abu Dawood in as-Sunan (no. 4002); Hafs ad-Doori in Juz’ Qiraa’aat an-Nabi sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam (p. 123); al-Bazzaar in al-Bahr al-Zakhaar (9/407); as-Siraaj in his Hadeeth (3/258); al-Haakim in al-Mustadrak (2/267) – he said: This is a hadeeth with a saheeh isnaad, although they (al-Bukhaari and Muslim) did not narrate it. All of them narrated it via Yazeed ibn Haaroon, from Sufyaan ibn Husayn, from al-Hakam.

Al-Bazzaar said: We do not know that anyone narrated it from al-Hakam ibn ‘Utaybah, from Ibraaheem, from his father, from Abu Dharr except Sufyaan ibn Husayn. Yoonus ibn ‘Ubayd narrated it from Ibraaheem at-Taymi, Sulayman al-A‘mash and Haroon ibn Sa‘d. End quote.

Secondly:

From the above it is clear that the version of the hadeeth of Abu Dharr which is most likely to be correct is the first one, in which it says: “It goes and prostrates beneath the Throne”, in which it makes no mention of it setting “in a spring of warm water (innaha taghrubu fi ‘aynin haamiyah).” This is based on several factors:

~1~

This wording is that on which the majority of narrators and those with the best memories agreed upon, in the report from Ibraaheem at-Taymi.

~2~

The second version (“in a spring of warm water”) was narrated only by al-Hakam ibn ‘Utaybah from Ibraahem, and al-Hakam – although he was trustworthy – was described by an-Nasaa’i as mudallis [i.e., he used vague wording to give a wrong impression] in Dhikr al-Mudalliseen (no. 11). Ibn Hibbaan said: He used to engage in tadlees. End quote from ath-Thiqaat (4/144). None of those who narrated his hadeeth said that he clearly stated that he heard it from the previous narrator; rather they all said that his report included the word ‘an (from – instead of ‘I heard’, etc). Ibn Hajar mentioned him in Maraatib al-Mudalliseen in the second rank of mudalliseen (p. 30), who are the ones whose tadlees the imams (leading scholars) tolerated and from whom they narrated reports that they regarded as sound, because of their prominence and because they rarely engaged in tadlees compared to others, such as ath-Thawri; or (it was tolerated) because they did not use engage in tadlees except when narrating from a trustworthy source, such as Ibn ‘Uyaynah. The fact that this report is contrary to the report narrated by the trustworthy narrators confirms the possibility that tadlees occurred in this hadeeth in particular.

~3~

The first version was narrated by both al-Bukhaari and Muslim, whereas the second version was not narrated by these two shaykhs. That is because they thought the first version was more likely to be correct than any other. Undoubtedly the reports in the books of al-Bukhaari and Muslim take precedence, according to the critics and scholars, than those in other books and Musnads.

~4~

There is a great difference between the two versions. The first one describes the sun as prostrating beneath the Throne, whether at the time of sunset or at any other time, according to different versions of the hadeeth. Prostration beneath the Throne is a matter of the unseen, and no one knows how it is except Allah, may He be glorified and exalted. He, may He be glorified and exalted, has told us that all created things prostrate to Him, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“See you not that to Allah prostrates whoever is in the heavens and whoever is on the earth, and the sun, and the moon, and the stars, and the mountains, and the trees, and Ad-Dawab (moving living creatures, beasts, etc.), and many of mankind? But there are many (men) on whom the punishment is justified”

[al-Hajj 22:18].

No one knows how this prostration is or when it happens or its real nature except Allah, may He be glorified and exalted. Similarly, the hadeeth of Abu Dharr is no different from this verse at all, and there is nothing objectionable in it.

Al-Khattaabi (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

It cannot be denied that it halts beneath the Throne, in a manner that we cannot see or comprehend; rather this is speaking about a matter of the unseen. So we should not disbelieve in it or ask how it happens, because our knowledge cannot comprehend it.

End quote from A‘laam al-Hadeeth Sharh Saheeh al-Bukhaari (p. 1893)

With regard to the second version, “It sets in a spring of warm water”, this is problematic, because the setting of the sun occurs when its disc disappears below the horizon, and it sets on some people and rises on others because of the movement of the earth around it. So it is not possible that the sun, which is of immense size, could disappear into a spring of warm water. With regard to the words of Allah, may He be exalted, in the story of Dhu’l-Qarnayn (interpretation of the meaning): “Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water” [al-Kahf 18:86], the commentators said that what is meant is to depict the scene that appeared before him, for he saw it on the horizon of the sea, as if it were sinking into it at the time of setting. The Holy Qur’an does not tell us that this was something that happnened in a real sense; hence Allah, may He be glorified, said “he found it setting” and He did not say “it was setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water.”

Al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

That is, he way he saw the sun was as if it was setting in the ocean, which is something that happens to everyone who stands on the shore: he sees the sun as if it is setting into the sea, when in fact it does not leave the celestial path on which it is firmly established.

End quote from Tafseer al-Qur’an al-Kareem (5/191)

To sum up: whoever casts aspersions on the Sunnah because of this wording is ignorant of the precision of the hadeeth scholars in examining different versions of the hadeeth and distinguishing between the reports which are proven and those which are not proven. The fact that some scholars regarded this report as saheeh is problematic; rather what they intended was to class as saheeh the basis of the hadeeth, not to suggest that this version is more correct than that which is proven in as-Saheehayn: “It goes and prostrates beneath the Throne.”

In order to refute this specious argument, it is sufficient to note that the scholars of Islam were unanimously agreed that the earth is round and that all the celestial bodies are also round. It is on that basis that night and day alternate, because of the movements and rotation of these heavenly bodies. This is clear from many texts of the Qur’an and Sunnah.

Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

The heavenly bodies are round, according to the Muslim scholars among the Sahaabah and those who followed them in guidance; that was also proven from them with isnaads mentioned in the appropriate places. In fact, more than one of the Muslim scholars narrated that there was consensus among the Muslims on that point.

End quote from Minhaaj as-Sunnah an-Nabawiyyah (5/442)

The Muslims were ahead of others in knowledge of astronomy; if the apparent meaning of this hadeeth contradicts that, then there would not have been consensus on the contrary; but the correct view is that the hadeeth does not contradict the scientific, astronomical facts.