Who wrote the Quran?

ArchBishopofAtheism

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Simple question. Who wrote the Quran? I know the answer is Allah but how do you know? Because he said so in the Quran? How do you know that it's him saying that in the Quran? Are you just supposed to believe it? Would you apply this standard to anything else? Is there any other evidence that Allah wrote it besides the Quran saying so?

Can someone definitively prove that Allah wrote the Quran without going in circles and telling me the Quran says so? Why would you accept this explanation when you wouldn't for anything else? Lastly, how can you remain Muslim when your entire ideology is about faith? Could it be that you were brainwashed into it at a young age?

Let's have a peaceful discussion without anyone getting triggered. My question is WHY? If you can keep answering the 'why' question with logical answers, we'll get along just fine. @Bidaar Wanagsan
 

kickz

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The Quran came down through recitation from Gabriel to Mohamed (S) and not book form, as this question has come before from non-believers like yourself through the centuries and Allah has mentioned this in surah Al-Ancam ayah 7

7. And even if We had sent down unto you (O Muhammad
) a Message written on paper so that they could touch it with their hands, the disbelievers would have said: "This is nothing but obvious magic!"
 

ArchBishopofAtheism

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The Quran came down through recitation from Gabriel to Mohamed (S) and not book form, as this question has come before from non-believers like yourself through the centuries and Allah has mentioned this in surah Al-Ancam ayah 7

7. And even if We had sent down unto you (O Muhammad
) a Message written on paper so that they could touch it with their hands, the disbelievers would have said: "This is nothing but obvious magic!"
How do you know it came through recitation from Gabriel to Muhammad?
How do you know it is Allah that mentions this in surah Al-Ancam? How do you know it's not a human writing this and attributing it to Allah for his own purposes?
Why are you quoting the Quran when this thread is about the authenticity of it?
 

kickz

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How do you know it came through recitation from Gabriel to Muhammad?
How do you know it is Allah that mentions this in surah Al-Ancam? How do you know it's not a human writing this and attributing it to Allah for his own purposes?
Why are you quoting the Quran when this thread is about the authenticity of it?
1. Thats what the Quran claims
2. The Quran often speaks in away that its Allah addressing Mohamed (S), (ie sentence structure and what not)
3. Among the signs its not written/fabricated, Allah challenges anyone to reproduce the Quran;

“Say: ‘If all mankind and the jinn would come together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce its like even though they exerted all and their strength in aiding one another

4. Because the Quran addresses this
 

ArchBishopofAtheism

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1. How do you know someone didn't write that in the Quran?
2. The Quran does speak in that way but it's not proof it's from Allah. Anyone can speak in that way. Do you know how Allah speaks? Have you met him? Are you saying it must be Allah because no human can speak that way?
3. C'mon man. How old are you? Anyone can "reproduce" the Quran. What's in it that cannot be reproduced? Are the ideas too original? Are you saying only god could've produced the Quran? Why? It says nothing that you or I can't come up with. In fact it is litered with scientific errors. You and I can do much better.
4. Again why quote the Quran when my thread is about the validity of it? This is like taking a murder suspect's denial and presenting it as fact in court.
 

kickz

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1. How do you know someone didn't write that in the Quran?
2. The Quran does speak in that way but it's not proof it's from Allah. Anyone can speak in that way. Do you know how Allah speaks? Have you met him? Are you saying it must be Allah because no human can speak that way?
3. C'mon man. How old are you? Anyone can "reproduce" the Quran. What's in it that cannot be reproduced? Are the ideas too original? Are you saying only god could've produced the Quran? Why? It says nothing that you or I can't come up with. In fact it is litered with scientific errors. You and I can do much better.
4. Again why quote the Quran when my thread is about the validity of it? This is like taking a murder suspect's denial and presenting it as fact in court.
1. See previous question 3 answer
2. See previous question 3 answer
3. No, if anyone could, it would have been already. What can't be reproduced is the linguistic structure of the Arabic used in it. A good read on the structure of writing in the Quran is; THEORY OF RING COMPOSITION
4.Because the Quran addresses this
 

ArchBishopofAtheism

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1. See previous question 3 answer
2. See previous question 3 answer
3. No, if anyone could, it would have been already. What can't be reproduced is the linguistic structure of the Arabic used in it. A good read on the structure of writing in the Quran is; THEORY OF RING COMPOSITION
4.Because the Quran addresses this
So you basically just admitted you're an idiot and logic doesn't matter to you? Interesting.
 

AlphaSomali

Were set
Simple question. Who wrote the Quran? I know the answer is Allah but how do you know? Because he said so in the Quran? How do you know that it's him saying that in the Quran? Are you just supposed to believe it? Would you apply this standard to anything else? Is there any other evidence that Allah wrote it besides the Quran saying so?

Can someone definitively prove that Allah wrote the Quran without going in circles and telling me the Quran says so? Why would you accept this explanation when you wouldn't for anything else? Lastly, how can you remain Muslim when your entire ideology is about faith? Could it be that you were brainwashed into it at a young age?

Let's have a peaceful discussion without anyone getting triggered. My question is WHY? If you can keep answering the 'why' question with logical answers, we'll get along just fine. @Bidaar Wanagsan
I will give your answer, the Quran is not written it is the Word of God or Kalamul Allah. The Quran is the expression of God's word. Because Allah speech is not like our speech, we need vocal cords inorder to speak.

The angel Jabril, recieves the revelation from the Lauh al mahfoud (which is the Tablet that has everything that exist and things that are going to happen, which is The Word of Allah), Jabril brings the revelation to the Nabi, the nabi learns the revelation from Jabril and then the Prophet reads the Revelation to the Sahabah, then they write it then read it back to Nabi to make sure there is no mistake.
 

ArchBishopofAtheism

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I will give your answer, the Quran is not written it is the Word of God or Kalamul Allah. The Quran is the expression of God's word. Because Allah speech is not like our speech, we need vocal cords inorder to speak.

The angel Jabril, recieves the revelation from the Lauh al mahfoud (which is the Tablet that has everything that exist and things that are going to happen, which is The Word of Allah), Jabril brings the revelation to the Nabi, the nabi learns the revelation from Jabril and then the Prophet reads the Revelation to the Sahabah, then they write it then read it back to Nabi to make sure there is no mistake.
How do you know the Quran is the expression of Allah, besides the Quran saying so? How do you know the Lauf al Mahfoud has everything that will exist? How do you know Jibril revealed the Quran to the prophet, besides what the prophet said? Is it normal to believe a dude who says he went into a cave and met an angel? Would you believe your friend if he went to a cave and had something revealed to him? Why not? What if his revelation says it's the only true revelation? What then? That's the logic you're employing here. It doesn't hold water and you only hold onto it because you were raised that way.
 

AlphaSomali

Were set
How do you know the Quran is the expression of Allah, besides the Quran saying so? How do you know the Lauf al Mahfoud has everything that will exist? How do you know Jibril revealed the Quran to the prophet, besides what the prophet said? Is it normal to believe a dude who says he went into a cave and met an angel? Would you believe your friend if he went to a cave and had something revealed to him? Why not? What if his revelation says it's the only true revelation? What then? That's the logic you're employing here. It doesn't hold water and you only hold onto it because you were raised that way.
Ya Akh how my going to explain without the Hadith or Quran.
The Quran mentions and
The Hadith also mention, you don't need science to explain because science can't explain things that don't go with the natural world.
 

ArchBishopofAtheism

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Ya Akh how my going to explain without the Hadith or Quran.
The Quran mentions and
The Hadith also mention, you don't need science to explain because science can't explain things that don't go with the natural world.
You don't need science. It's basic logic. You can explain with the hadith and quran if their claims are logical and verifiable, neither of which they are.
I can write a book and say its the universal truth about everything. When people challenge me about it, I can't use my statement in the book as proof.
 

AlphaSomali

Were set
How do you know the Quran is the expression of Allah, besides the Quran saying so? How do you know the Lauf al Mahfoud has everything that will exist? How do you know Jibril revealed the Quran to the prophet, besides what the prophet said? Is it normal to believe a dude who says he went into a cave and met an angel? Would you believe your friend if he went to a cave and had something revealed to him? Why not? What if his revelation says it's the only true revelation? What then? That's the logic you're employing here. It doesn't hold water and you only hold onto it because you were raised that way.
Every atheist must know that logic is not always correct, like the multiverse theory, Paul Davis used physics to find out this theory and conclude that it is Mathmatically impossible.
 

ArchBishopofAtheism

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Every atheist must know that logic is not always correct, like the multiverse theory, Paul Davis used physics to find out this theory and conclude that it is Mathmatically impossible.
Why are you going off into the multiverse theory? I asked how you know the Quran is the word of Allah without using the Quran as proof. The answer is that you don't know, and you're uncomfortable with this answer. Given all the scientific errors in it, the answer becomes "it isn't" the word of Allah.
 

AlphaSomali

Were set
You don't need science. It's basic logic. You can explain with the hadith and quran if their claims are logical and verifiable, neither of which they are.
I can write a book and say its the universal truth about everything. When people challenge me about it, I can't use my statement in the book as proof.
The Hadith is sources of explaining the deen, we have chains of Narrations and contains every man who narrates hadith.
We have the old scriptures of the Quran.
Logic is a tool but does not always work.
 

ArchBishopofAtheism

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The Hadith is sources of explaining the deen, we have chains of Narrations and contains every man who narrates hadith.
We have the old scriptures of the Quran.
Logic is a tool but does not always work.
The hadith are records of the Sunnah of the prophet. They are an accurate depiction of what the prophet did and what he ordered people to do. And there are some that are classified as authentic and some aren't. I'm not asking about the validity of hadiths. How do you know the prophet was a prophet in the first place? How do you know the Quran was revealed to him? Who else was there beside him? How do you know the things he did and ordered others to do (the Sunnah) has any basis in anything devine? What would hadiths matter for if he wasn't a prophet and the Quran wasn't the word of god in the first place?
 
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AlphaSomali

Were set
Why are you going off into the multiverse theory? I asked how you know the Quran is the word of Allah without using the Quran as proof. The answer is that you don't know, and you're uncomfortable with this answer. Given all the scientific errors in it, the answer becomes "it isn't" the word of Allah.
I will give a example again how do you know oxytocin is taking part in a Human's Brain, without using MRI scan.
That what your trying to say to me is "Bring forth your claim without the evidence". Which goes against logic and questioning all together.

The hadith are records of the Sunnah of the prophet. They are an accurate depiction of what the prophet did and what he ordered people to do. And there are some that are classified as authentic and some aren't. I'm not asking about the validity of hadiths. How do you know the prophet was a prophet in the first place? How do you know the Quran was revealed to him? Who else was there beside him? How do you know the things he did and ordered others to do (the Sunnah) has any basis in anything devine? What would hadiths matter for if he wasn't a prophet and the Quran wasn't the word of god in the first place?
From what the Sahabah have taught to the Tabi'een and what the Tabi'een have taught they're students. Some sahabah have even seen the prophet receive revelation by looking at the Nabi's face. Many sahabah have seen the Prophet face when he receive revalation like Abdullah ibn Masood

I give you a description from the Hadith

His face turn red and he would feel so hot that sweat drops would appear on his forehead. He would also become heavy to the extent that his thigh would press hard against the thigh of the person next to him. If he was riding, his mount would lay down. At the same time, noises like the buzzing of bees would be heard near his face, these physical experiences are confirmed in an authentic hadith related by Bukhari, Muslim and others.
 

ArchBishopofAtheism

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I will give a example again how do you know oxytocin is taking part in a Human's Brain, without using MRI scan.
That what your trying to say to me is "Bring forth your claim without the evidence". Which goes against logic and questioning all together.



From what the Sahabah have taught to the Tabi'een and what the Tabi'een have taught they're students. Some sahabah have even seen the prophet receive revelation by looking at the Nabi's face. Many sahabah have seen the Prophet face when he receive revalation like Abdullah ibn Masood

I give you a description from the Hadith

His face turn red and he would feel so hot that sweat drops would appear on his forehead. He would also become heavy to the extent that his thigh would press hard against the thigh of the person next to him. If he was riding, his mount would lay down. At the same time, noises like the buzzing of bees would be heard near his face, these physical experiences are confirmed in an authentic hadith related by Bukhari, Muslim and others.
It's possible the sahaba observed these behaviors by the prophet but it's a huge leap to say he must've been receiving revelations. Do you see how gullible and uncritical the Sahaba were? Someone's face turning red and them convulsing =/= revelation. C'mon man. Would you draw that conclusion if your friend had sweat drops on his forehead and began acting weird? You would only draw that conclsion if your friend already told you he receives revelations and you believe him. The Sahaba were engaged in confirmation bias.
:mjlol:
 

AlphaSomali

Were set
It's possible the sahaba observed these behaviors by the prophet but it's a huge leap to say he must've been receiving revelations. Do you see how gullible and uncritical the Sahaba were? Someone's face turning red and them convulsing =/= revelation. C'mon man. Would you draw that conclusion if your friend had sweat drops on his forehead and began acting weird? You would only draw that conclsion if your friend already told you he receives revelations and you believe him. The Sahaba were engaged in confirmation bias.
:mjlol:
They used to see the prophet in that state every time the revalation came.
 

ArchBishopofAtheism

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They used to see the prophet in that state every time the revalation came.
Did you know the prophet first said he was possessed when he "got revelations" and actually tried to kill himself on multiple occasions? Why on earth would you believe this guy when he says something so implausible like he received the Quran in a cave from an angel, when he himself knew he was crazy?
 
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