Who were the Paleolithic Somalis?

[Netflix]

I read somewhere that Somalis are the closest population to the original Cushitic people’s in the horn. But even we have some Palaeolithic Horner ancestry. Who were these Palaeolithic Somalis.

 

[Apollo]

@Tdl

They were not ''Somalis'' as in speaking something related to Af-Somali. Their language family is likely now completely extinct (linguists call this 'language isolate'). It was not Khoisan nor Nilo-Saharan. Those two are completely ruled out.

Basically long story short they were paleolithic people living in Somalia. All areas of Africa had some inhabitants during the paleolithic, but generally sparsely so compared to the neolithic and afterwards.

The only evidence of their existence are some localized maternal lineages in Somalis and some paleolithic era human remains and tools scattered around Somaliweyn. Only 8-12% of the ancestry of modern ethnic Somalis traces to these people, 88-92% traces back to the Northeast Sudanese proto-Cushites who arrived in the Horn proper post-neolithic.

 

[reer]

@Tdl

They were not ''Somalis'' as in speaking something related to Af-Somali. Their language family is likely now completely extinct (linguists call this 'language isolate'). It was not Khoisan nor Nilo-Saharan. Those two are completely ruled out.

Basically long story short they were paleolithic people living in Somalia. All areas of Africa had some inhabitants during the paleolithic, but generally sparsely so compared to the neolithic and afterwards.

The only evidence of their existence are some localized maternal lineages in Somalis and some paleolithic era human remains and tools scattered around Somaliweyn. Only 8-12% of the ancestry of modern ethnic Somalis traces to these people, 88-92% traces back to the Northeast Sudanese proto-Cushites who arrived in the Horn proper post-neolithic.

how far back do we have accounts or mentions of af somali? are there any af somali texts from the middle ages?

 

[Aurelian]

@Tdl

They were not ''Somalis'' as in speaking something related to Af-Somali. Their language family is likely now completely extinct (linguists call this 'language isolate'). It was not Khoisan nor Nilo-Saharan. Those two are completely ruled out.

Basically long story short they were paleolithic people living in Somalia. All areas of Africa had some inhabitants during the paleolithic, but generally sparsely so compared to the neolithic and afterwards.

The only evidence of their existence are some localized maternal lineages in Somalis and some paleolithic era human remains and tools scattered around Somaliweyn. Only 8-12% of the ancestry of modern ethnic Somalis traces to these people, 88-92% traces back to the Northeast Sudanese proto-Cushites who arrived in the Horn proper post-neolithic.

So they were already dying out before neolithic cushitic arrived?

 

[Apollo]

how far back do we have accounts or mentions of af somali? are there any af somali texts from the middle ages?

Linguists can calculate when two living languages split using various linguistic techniques with the help of IT. They have calculated that proto-Somali split from Oromos around 3,500 years ago, from Afars around 5,000 years ago, and from the Agaw and Beja around 7,000-8,000 years ago. I estimate around that time 5,000-8,000 proto-Cushites entered the Horn region from Northeast Sudan.

So they were already dying out before neolithic cushitic arrived?

All over the world hunter-gatherers lost from farmers and/or nomads/pastoralists/agro-pastoralists.

 

[Netflix]

Linguists can calculate when two living languages split using various linguistic techniques with the help of IT. They have calculated that proto-Somali split from Oromos around 3,500 years ago, from Afars around 5,000 years ago, and from the Agaw and Beja around 7,000-8,000 years ago. I estimate around that time 5,000-8,000 proto-Cushites entered the Horn region from Northeast Sudan.



All over the world hunter-gatherers lost from farmers and/or nomads/pastoralists/agro-pastoralists.

Northeast Sudanese proto-Cushites who arrived in the Horn. We’re from Sudan this is a big shock what evidence do u have for this.

 

[Apollo]

Northeast Sudanese proto-Cushites who arrived in the Horn. We’re from Sudan this is a big shock what evidence do u have for this.

There are many things indicating that, but it is primarily from genetics and secondarily supported by archeology and linguistics.

In the near future they will release the genomes of paleolithic Somalis (from 7,000-8,000 years ago) from Bay province. They have been postponing that study for a long time now, but I think it will be released in 2021 or 2022 max.

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

Linguists can calculate when two living languages split using various linguistic techniques with the help of IT. They have calculated that proto-Somali split from Oromos around 3,500 years ago, from Afars around 5,000 years ago, and from the Agaw and Beja around 7,000-8,000 years ago. I estimate around that time 5,000-8,000 proto-Cushites entered the Horn region from Northeast Sudan.



All over the world hunter-gatherers lost from farmers and/or nomads/pastoralists/agro-pastoralists.

weird I feel closer to Afar than to any Oromo clan even though we separated way earlier.

Maybe its the Jabuutian talking kkkk

 

[Som]

I'm also surprised by how much more nilotic Somalis are if compared to the others according to this study.
Somalis are the yellow square, the part below is "zoomed" and focuses on nubians, habesha ethios, cushitic ethios and Somalis and we are the closest to nilosaharian

 

[Apollo]

I'm also surprised by how much more nilotic Somalis are if compared to the others according to this study.
Somalis are the yellow square, the part below is "zoomed" and focuses on nubians, habesha ethios, cushitic ethios and Somalis and we are the closest to nilosaharian

What pushes Somalis about 10% towards the SSA direction is Horn of Africa hunter-gatherer ancestry (non-Nilotic) acquired inside of Somalia.

The proto-Cushites Somalis descend from plotted with those Nubians. There have been South Cushites found in Kenya who plot with those Nubians.

Also, do you realize that Nubia is almost as North geographically as parts of Iran while Somalia is equatorial. Geographically Nubia is closer to Israel than to Somalia.

 

[Som]

What pushes Somalis about 10% towards the SSA direction is Horn of Africa hunter-gatherer ancestry (non-Nilotic) acquired inside of Somalia.

The proto-Cushites Somalis descend from plotted with those Nubians.

Also, do you realize that Nubia is almost as North geographically as parts of Iran while Somalia is equatorial. Geographically Nubia is closer to Israel than to Somalia.

But modern somalis mostly developed in the North, we got to the equatorial part(anything south of mogadishu-merka) like 300 years ago.

 

[Apollo]

But modern somalis mostly developed in the North, we got to the equatorial part(anything south of mogadishu-merka) like 300 years ago.

The origin for Somalis in the North is only based on where clans think their oldest ancestor came from. Clan origins only go max one thousand years back. Proto-Somalis are at least 3,000 years old.

It is also possible that the earliest Somalis lived in Southern Somalia for the longest period of time and possibly only entered the arid northern regions when the camel became domesticated.

 

[Som]

What pushes Somalis about 10% towards the SSA direction is Horn of Africa hunter-gatherer ancestry (non-Nilotic) acquired inside of Somalia.

The proto-Cushites Somalis descend from plotted with those Nubians. There have been South Cushites found in Kenya who would plot with those Nubians as well.

Also, do you realize that Nubia is almost as North geographically as parts of Iran while Somalia is equatorial. Geographically Nubia is closer to Israel than to Somalia.

Anyway it seems habeshas are less nilotic than nubians and ethiopia is south of nubia. Geography can help us but it isn't always indicative. Darfur is also as north as the middle east but darfurians are nilotic

 

[Boogie]

Anyway it seems habeshas are less nilotic than nubians and ethiopia is south of nubia. Geography can help us but it isn't always indicative. Darfur is also as north as the middle east but darfurians are nilotic

Yea because habesha have additional omotic and Semetic blood

 

[Apollo]

Anyway it seems habeshas are less nilotic than nubians and ethiopia is south of nubia. Geography can help us but it isn't always indicative. Darfur is also as north as the middle east but darfurians are nilotic

Actually Amharas are more SSA than those Nubians on average, but Amharas SSA is less Nilotic than those of Nubians because Omotic is not Nilotic.

 

[Som]

The origin for Somalis in the North is only based on where clans think their oldest ancestor came from. Clan origins only go max one thousand years back. Proto-Somalis are at least 3,000 years old.

It is also possible that the earliest Somalis lived in Southern Somalia for the longest period of time and possibly only entered the arid northern regions when the camel became domesticated.

I heard we came from southern ethiopia, went up north and then came back to the central and southern parts of Somalia.
When i say somali i mean modern somali.

 

[Apollo]

I heard we came from southern ethiopia, went up north and then came back to the central and southern parts of Somalia.
When i say somali i mean modern somali.

Somalis do not come from Southern Ethiopia, zero genetic evidence for this. Southern Ethiopia has many specific markers Somalis do not have. In fact, Somalis are the easiest population in Ethiopia to differentiate because of this (see this study).

The only possibly southern origin theory is Southern Somalia.

 

[Som]

What pushes Somalis about 10% towards the SSA direction is Horn of Africa hunter-gatherer ancestry (non-Nilotic) acquired inside of Somalia.

The proto-Cushites Somalis descend from plotted with those Nubians. There have been South Cushites found in Kenya who plot with those Nubians.

Also, do you realize that Nubia is almost as North geographically as parts of Iran while Somalia is equatorial. Geographically Nubia is closer to Israel than to Somalia.

Anyway are the numbers on the pc1 axis the percentage of west eurasian? Cause it says we are 30%. I always thought we were 40%. These numbers keep changing

 

[Apollo]

Anyway are the numbers on the pc1 axis the percentage of west eurasian? Cause it says we are 30%. I always thought we were 40%. These numbers keep changing

Those are not autosomal percentages.

It is a PCA plot (mathematical stuff calculating distances).

 

[Som]

Somalis do not come from Southern Ethiopia, zero genetic evidence for this. Southern Ethiopia has many specific markers Somalis do not have. In fact, Somalis are the easiest population in Ethiopia to differentiate because of this (see this study).

The only possibly southern origin theory is Southern Somalia.

But oromos came from southern ethiopia and boranas still live there and they are fairly close to us.
Historical evidence suggests that the south (anything south of mogadishu-merka) May have bantu or hunter gatherer untill like 10-11th AD.