Who were the Paleolithic Somalis?

[Som]

Somalis do not come from Southern Ethiopia, zero genetic evidence for this. Southern Ethiopia has many specific markers Somalis do not have. In fact, Somalis are the easiest population in Ethiopia to differentiate because of this (see this study).

The only possibly southern origin theory is Southern Somalia.

The southern Ethiopian hypothesis is probably the most accepted nowadays

 

[Apollo]

But oromos came from souther ethiopia and boronas still live there and they are fairly close to us.
Historical evidence suggests that the south (anything south of mogadishu-merka) May have bantu or hunter gatherer untill like 10-11th AD.

Borana Oromos are not genetically similar to Somalis.

The genome-wide distance between the Portuguese and Slavs is smaller than between Boranas and Somalis.

Somebody made a google maps tool based on that Ethiopian study. Somalis are the least similar to Ethiopian populations of all the ones they studied. Let me look for that URL.

 

[Apollo]

The southern Ethiopian hypothesis is probably the most accepted nowadays

There is no genetic evidence for it.

 

[Som]

Somalis do not come from Southern Ethiopia, zero genetic evidence for this. Southern Ethiopia has many specific markers Somalis do not have. In fact, Somalis are the easiest population in Ethiopia to differentiate because of this (see this study).

The only possibly southern origin theory is Southern Somalia.

Anyway it depends what you mean by southern somalia. If you mean Gedo, bakool , maybe Hiiraan etc then I agree with you. Those places aren't that far from southern ethiopia.
Buf if you mean southern somalia like Shabeelaha hoose, Jubbooyinka (Kismayo area) then I'm more skeptic

 

[Apollo]

Anyway it depends what you mean by southern somalia. If you mean Gedo, bakool , maybe Hiiraan etc then I agree with you. Those places aren't that far from southern ethiopia.
Buf if you mean southern somalia like Shabeelaha hoose, Jubbooyinka (Kismayo area) then I'm more skeptic

Somali Bantus did not live in those areas back then. Just ethnic Somalis.

 

[Som]

Borana Oromos are not genetically similar to Somalis.

The genome-wide distance between the Portuguese and Slavs is smaller than between Boranas and Somalis.

Somebody made a google maps tool based on that Ethiopian study. Somalis are the least similar to Ethiopian populations of all the ones they studied. Let me look for that URL.

It's weird though. All the studies basically say we are closely related to ethiopians, but if the distance between us and boranas is like portuguese and slavs then somalis vs habesha is like slavs and arabs or something like that.
Why would they say closely related if the difference is that high?.

 

[Apollo]

@Som

I found it:

Ethopia

www.well.ox.ac.uk

Click on any random Ethiopian population and you will see they are much closer to each other than Somalis (ironically, Ethiopian Somalis) are to any of them. Somalis from Somalia would be even genetically further removed from any kind of Ethiopian.

So the southern Ethiopia theory is pure bunk.

 

[Som]

Somali Bantus did not live in those areas back then. Just ethnic Somalis.

Arab written sources suggest that. Bilad al zanj was anything south of Mogadishu.

I don't know man, historians and dna scientists should really work together more

 

[Apollo]

Arab written sources suggest that. Bilad al zanj was anything south of Mogadishu.

I don't know man, historians and dna scientists should really work together more

We are talking BCE here. What you are mentioning is Middle Ages. Bantus arrived in the Common Era.

They did not exist there in BCE.

 

[Som]

We are talking BCE here. What you are mentioning is Middle Ages.

Yes but it doesn't make sense to have somalis in BCE and then bantus in the middle ages. Proto somalis didn't just disappear and came back as modern Somalis

 

[Apollo]

Yes but it doesn't make sense to have somalis in BCE and then bantus in the middle ages. Proto somalis didn't just disappear and came back as modern Somalis

Ethnic Somalis still lived there but then started shipping in Bantu slaves as Arab dhows started moving about in that area in the Middle Ages. Anyhow, I don't see how Bantus nor Benadiris are in anyway relevant to a discussion about BCE Southern Somalia, neither existed there back then. These are population of recent migratory origin.

 

[Apollo]

@Som

Somali from Southern Somalia around 500 CE:

 

[Boogie]

@Som Proto-Cushites originate in North Sudan, where a West Eurasian population mixed with a Sub Saharan population. Then, we migrated to Somalia and got additional Hunter-Gatherer. (SSA) ancestry.

 

[Apollo]

The Southern Ethiopia theory triggers me, lol, because I know how implausible it is.

It is only based on silly linguistic diversity arguments. No solid basis in archeology nor genetics.

The camel and nomadism wiped out linguistic diversity in Northern Somaliweyn.

 

[Gadhwayne]

The Southern Ethiopia theory triggers me, lol, because I know how implausible it is.

It is only based on silly linguistic diversity arguments. No solid basis in archeology nor genetics.

The camel and nomadism wiped out linguistic diversity in Northern Somaliweyn.

kulli fitna cinda geel

Here is a potential hypothesis to recpncile linguistics and genetics: haplogroup T carrying ajnabi geeljire(s) came to Jaahiliye era NorthSoomalistan, brought the dromedary and adopted one of the Somaaloid languages and also possibly brought Nestorian Christianity which has since been wiped out

beesha T adopted Somaloid language wipes out all other Soomaaloid and any AfarSaho type languages and maybe some Qoti like language(s) that still had the laryngeal fricatives now lacking in modern Afaan Qoti

So it appears both Oromoid and MacroSoomali urheimat is near the Kiinya border with Xabashistaan, whereas CafarSaho, Oromoid, and Soomaloid all originate in the greaterHararga vicinity, where all 3 languages groups are still spoken.

We know who to blame for tje lack of linguistic diversity in North Somalistan

kulli fitna cinda geel

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[Mujahid Nur Marehan]

kulli fitna cinda geel

Here is a potential hypothesis to recpncile linguistics and genetics: haplogroup T carrying ajnabi geeljire(s) came to Jaahiliye era NorthSoomalistan, brought the dromedary and adopted one of the Somaaloid languages and also possibly brought Nestorian Christianity which has since been wiped out

beesha T adopted Somaloid language wipes out all other Soomaaloid and any AfarSaho type languages and maybe some Qoti like language(s) that still had the laryngeal fricatives now lacking in modern Afaan Qoti

So it appears both Oromoid and MacroSoomali urheimat is near the Kiinya border with Xabashistaan, whereas CafarSaho, Oromoid, and Soomaloid all originate in the greaterHararga vicinity, where all 3 languages groups are still spoken.

We know who to blame for tje lack of linguistic diversity in North Somalistan

kulli fitna cinda geel

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You guys are treu ajanib you haven't even left the Saylac corridor.

 

[Malikfiqi]

Borana Oromos are not genetically similar to Somalis.

The genome-wide distance between the Portuguese and Slavs is smaller than between Boranas and Somalis.

Somebody made a google maps tool based on that Ethiopian study. Somalis are the least similar to Ethiopian populations of all the ones they studied. Let me look for that URL.

The boronona are the purest Oromos they have an Omotic factor of 45% the Arsi have the lowest, and are the most closest to Somalis in my opinion

 

[Slickster]

@Som

Somali from Southern Somalia around 500 CE:

I'd really like to know where and on what that was found. If you have any idea, please let me know because my dad loves stuff like this and I'd like to share it with him.

This is all I could find on it: ( https://landofpunt.wordpress.com/2015/07/30/who-were-the-ancient-azanians/?hcb=1 ), but it seems a bit iffy.

 

[alien]

@Tdl

They were not ''Somalis'' as in speaking something related to Af-Somali. Their language family is likely now completely extinct (linguists call this 'language isolate'). It was not Khoisan nor Nilo-Saharan. Those two are completely ruled out.

Basically long story short they were paleolithic people living in Somalia. All areas of Africa had some inhabitants during the paleolithic, but generally sparsely so compared to the neolithic and afterwards.

The only evidence of their existence are some localized maternal lineages in Somalis and some paleolithic era human remains and tools scattered around Somaliweyn. Only 8-12% of the ancestry of modern ethnic Somalis traces to these people, 88-92% traces back to the Northeast Sudanese proto-Cushites who arrived in the Horn proper post-neolithic.

what are the Paleolithic maternal lineages and how common are they in somalis?

 

[Slickster]

There are many things indicating that, but it is primarily from genetics and secondarily supported by archeology and linguistics.

In the near future they will release the genomes of paleolithic Somalis (from 7,000-8,000 years ago) from Bay province. They have been postponing that study for a long time now, but I think it will be released in 2021 or 2022 max.

Any idea on what will pop up? Given that we've only been in the Horn for ~5000 years, and with the specimens being from only 2000 years prior, surely they should be representative of the people group whom make up 8-12% of our DNA. Will it be similar to anything we've seen before, like the Mota? Or do you think it'll be something completely new? Id say either is a good bet, but the latter is especially compelling as they're taking so damn long to release the results. I remember hearing of this when I first got into anthro, and it still hasn't been released...