Who were the Harla People and what is their relation to Somalis? Did they contribute to the modern Somali ethnogenesis?

[Idilinaa]

Kkk Gurey, his ancestors before him, his descendants after him (whom also formed their own principalities) were all known. Karanle dominated the religion, fighting and trade of Hararge since the days of Ifat up to colonial times were their descendants formed some of the most prominent tariqa that shaped the Horn as we know today. Oromo know this. Ethiopia as a whole knows this. Western orientalist scholars know this. Hawiye and the non Hawiye educated Somalis know this. To them, a Karanle win is a Somali win.

Gurey’s father aka Al Ghazi was chief of all Karanle and Hawiye tribes of Hobat which was the Mogadishu of Western Somalia. Emir Abu Bakr al Hawiye eplaced him in Hobat. Gragn and his father have ruled Adal but the majority Karanle line who ruled Adal was the Adash and Mahfuz family. Mohamed Ibrahim Gasa's line were the majority Awsa line. They are all connected as outlined by Ahmed Sami the foremost Harari historian whose works are kept under the institute of Ethiopian studies.

View attachment 322343

You don't have to spam what i've seen many times already. I am not saying that this i not true.

He could very well be Hawiye or in most likelihood they have a ''Bah'' connected to his family through a marriage political alliance. Follow up research is needed because this is Mekuria's own writings and not the raw info from the source, so we can see a more complete picture on what the local traditions entails.

It could also help if they found any document mentioning his family or clan, they way they have in Chrisitian and local sources on Emir Nur clan/family lineage.

 

[Step a side]

You proved my point Imam Umar-Din al-Madayti wasn't from his line, Issa Garad dynasty fought Umar-Din bin Ahmed -Din and took the throne, Afars weren't mentioned until Imam Adams time 1638, Ahmed Gurey is not Harla nothing supports this claim and Imam Umar-Din bin Adam was Imam 'Adb ar-rahman brother both were ciise

Let me simplify it for you. Awsa starts with a Karanle governor of Bale and ends with his descendants Umar Diin ibn Imam Adam at 1672. Sure Madayti was from a different line as well as the Issa Garaads but the point still stands which is Gurey’s family started it and ended it.

Harla are sedentary Somalis. They could have been Dir, Hawiye, Darood etc. This is my stance on it untill we get more information as time goes by inshaAllah

 

[Step a side]

You don't have to spam what i've seen many times already. I am not saying that this not true.

He could be very well be Hawiye or in most likelihood they have a bah connected to his family through a marriage political alliances. Follow up research is needed because this is Mekuria's own writings and not the raw info from the source, so we can see a more complete picture on the local traditions entails.

It could also help if they found any document mentioning his family or clan they way they have in chrisitian and local sources on Emir Nur.

The history of Gragn is beyond Somali history, all of the works around him are based on Hararge which has multuple ethnic groups. An Amhara scholar who wrote the history of Ethiopia from Nubians to Yakuno Amlak to Menelik and a Harari scholar who has copies of the earliest history of Harar preceding Ifat are in agreement that Gragn is Somali Karanle.

Amiir Nur’s lineage is actually unknown by the scholars of Harar. He is related to the imam as a nephew and/or as a brother. Burton’s mentions it.

 

[Idilinaa]

The history of Gragn is beyond Somali history, all of the works around him are based on Hararge which has multuple ethnic groups. An Amhara scholar who wrote the history of Ethiopia from Nubians to Yakuno Amlak to Menelik and a Harari scholar who has copies of the earliest history of Harar preceding Ifat are in agreement that Gragn is Somali Karanle,

You put forward an Ethiopian scholar who went to a Harari collector of traditions who got it from Hawiye in the local area.

It's not even primary. So it's better to go directly to the source for the tradition and get the full picture from them in their words.

Aside from this my assessment of Gurey's background is similar to the Portuguese who was direct eye witness to the war.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

You put forward an Ethiopian scholar who went to a Harari collector of traditions who got it from Hawiye in the local area.

It's not even primary. So it's better to go directly to the source for the tradition and get the full picture from them in their words.

Aside from this my assessment of Gurey's background is similar to the Portuguese who was direct eye witness to the war.

And what did they say?

 

[Idilinaa]

And what did they say?

Little is known of his early history. Nothing is said of his nationality. Not an Arab. He is most likely a Somali because he is closely connected with many whom was Somali.

 

[Step a side]

You put forward an Ethiopian scholar who went to a Harari collector of traditions who got it from Hawiye in the local area.

It's not even primary. So it's better to go directly to the source for the tradition and get the full picture from them in their words.

Aside from this my assessment of Gurey's background is similar to the Portuguese who was direct eye witness to the war.

Cope. Why would a scholar of history rely on 1 clan's viewpoint when Hararge had many clans and ethnicities all claiming Gragn till this day. There is no evidence Shami ever discussed history with Hawiye, if he did we would see better spelling and an accurate match to the Sixawle tradition in the lineage tree. You think Hawiyes paid him off to lie about history to a historian Shami isn't I.M Lewis being state funded to shill for another clan, he is a Muslim scholar who deserves the benefit of the doubt. You wouldn't question Al Idrisi, Ibn Said, Al Maqrisi etc who have written on Somalis for centuries. The same Somali folks who dismiss him shamelessly quote Lewis or Enrico Cerulli for their boring ass fkd and seek legitimacy through that Shami brought evidence from the Futuh, from Ba Alawi and compiled the history of Harar from earlier sources and it's agreed upon with Ethiopian scholars who looked into the books of Sarsa Dengel, previous emperors and the Portugese to find a conclusive end to the question. I would rather take information from respected local sources than a forumer who cherry picks what they choose to read. A Portugese outsider who barely knew Gragn's first name (calling him Mohamed Gragne) is sufficient to you than studies from insiders that span generations of manuscripts and lineage papers saved on animal skin kkkk OK talk about being dense on purpose. A whole book that puts Somalis in a positive light let alone Karanle isn't enough for you when it's state funded and promoted by the last King of Ethiopia!

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Cope. Why would a scholar of history rely on 1 clan's viewpoint when Hararge had many clans and ethnicities all claiming Gragn till this day. There is no evidence Shami ever discussed history with Hawiye, if he did we would see better spelling and an accurate match to the Sixawle tradition in the lineage tree. You think Hawiyes paid him off to lie about history to a historian Shami isn't I.M Lewis being state funded to shill for another clan, he is a Muslim scholar who deserves the benefit of the doubt. You wouldn't question Al Idrisi, Ibn Said, Al Maqrisi etc who have written on Somalis for centuries. The same Somali folks who dismiss him shamelessly quote Lewis or Enrico Cerulli for their boring ass fkd and seek legitimacy through that Shami brought evidence from the Futuh, from Ba Alawi and compiled the history of Harar from earlier sources and it's agreed upon with Ethiopian scholars who looked into the books of Sarsa Dengel, previous emperors and the Portugese to find a conclusive end to the question. I would rather take information from respected local sources than a forumer who cherry picks what they choose to read. A Portugese outsider who barely knew Gragn's first name (calling him Mohamed Gragne) is sufficient to you than studies from insiders that span generations of manuscripts and lineage papers saved on animal skin kkkk OK talk about being dense on purpose. A whole book that puts Somalis in a positive light let alone Karanle isn't enough for you when it's state funded and promoted by the last King of Ethiopia!

Tbh I think it is pretty conclusive the Imam was a Karanle.

If he was hebel X Y or Jinni it doesn't matter he was a Somali Imam and he led us all he wasn't acting as a elder of Karanle.

 

[Step a side]

Little is known of his early history. Nothing is said of his nationality. Not an Arab. He is most likely a Somali because he is closely connected with many whom was Somali.

The Portugese barely knew of Gragn or the Walashma. They are useful in collaborating the evidence only, not sufficient on their own, a primary source would be the original Futuh in Harar's museum, the short chronicles of Sarsa, Minas, Mawsuuc, Awssa, carbon dated lineage papers, Kebra Negast and Ba Alawi who stated 4 ancestors of Gragn etc. Shami in particular collated all this and preceded you in research to confirm his Karanle identity. You are a nobody while better men dedicated to their craft have done the hard work already in researching this. Can you come up with a 1000 paged book discussing everything from start to finish? Sabagh, Manfred Kropp, Berhanu Kamal, Paulitchke etc all corroborate this. It's an overwelming case with over 7 scholars in agreement and institutionalised in Ethiopian Emperor's circles and schools. I went a step further and posted the regional influence of Karanle spanning centuries in terms of 1. trade (Imey was the largest town between Berbera and Xamar), 2. religion (the biggest tariqa of Harar was founded by Karanle mashayikh), 3. settlement (Hawiye Guda and Erer Hawiya districts) and 4. power (Karanle were the first Somalis of Hararge to engage in the slave trade and are described by colonial powers as the most powerful entity in 1876). All this just to get you simpletons a better picture of the obvious. Oromia even knew Karanle as the main antagonist they were confronted by which is why they name the Shabelle river after us. You don't send your weakest to border patrol and that's exactly why Karanle shed blood for centuries protecting the interior.

 

[datesfrompuntland]

Reewing migrations were in 1500’s

that's Oromo

 

[Burqad]

that's Oromo

Oromo chased Reewing people from Bale, which was their original home.

 

[Aseer]

Tbh I think it is pretty conclusive the Imam was a Karanle.

If he was hebel X Y or Jinni it doesn't matter he was a Somali Imam and he led us all he wasn't acting as a elder of Karanle.

Yeah tbh I am happy that he is somali.

 

[Idilinaa]

The Portugese barely knew of Gragn or the Walashma. They are useful in collaborating the evidence only, not sufficient on their own, a primary source would be the original Futuh in Harar's museum, the short chronicles of Sarsa, Minas, Mawsuuc, Awssa, carbon dated lineage papers, Kebra Negast and Ba Alawi who stated 4 ancestors of Gragn etc. Shami in particular collated all this and preceded you in research to confirm his Karanle identity. You are a nobody while better men dedicated to their craft have done the hard work already in researching this. Can you come up with a 1000 paged book discussing everything from start to finish? Sabagh, Manfred Kropp, Berhanu Kamal, Paulitchke etc all corroborate this. It's an overwelming case with over 7 scholars in agreement and institutionalised in Ethiopian Emperor's circles and schools. I went a step further and posted the regional influence of Karanle spanning centuries in terms of 1. trade (Imey was the largest town between Berbera and Xamar), 2. religion (the biggest tariqa of Harar was founded by Karanle mashayikh), 3. settlement (Hawiye Guda and Erer Hawiya districts) and 4. power (Karanle were the first Somalis of Hararge to engage in the slave trade and are described by colonial powers as the most powerful entity in 1876). All this just to get you simpletons a better picture of the obvious. Oromia even knew Karanle as the main antagonist they were confronted by which is why they name the Shabelle river after us. You don't send your weakest to border patrol and that's exactly why Karanle shed blood for centuries protecting the interior.

They was direct eyewitness they saw the active players in the war direct and up close and fought with them and against.

What they wrote was way more revealing then what you saw on the surface. Because the only potentialities they saw of his ethnicity was either Arab or Somali. Not Danakil/Afar or any other group. (They ruled out him being Arab naturally though). Why? Because the army was composed of a band of Somalis clan groups and Mahra Arabs who joined for jihad.

Which is excactly in line with what Futuh shows. There was no multi-ethnic led army.

As for the specifics about his clan, i couldn't really care less but you can spam large walls of texts all day if you think it matters.

 

[sultan.ali177]

Let me simplify it for you. Awsa starts with a Karanle governor of Bale and ends with his descendants Umar Diin ibn Imam Adam at 1672. Sure Madayti was from a different line as well as the Issa Garaads but the point still stands which is Gurey’s family started it and ended it.

View attachment 322344

Harla are sedentary Somalis. They could have been Dir, Hawiye, Darood etc. This is my stance on it untill we get more information as time goes by inshaAllah

Your comprehension skills are very bad. The issa garad dynasty
lasted From 1628 to 1750 at the end of the Awsa Imamate. Umar diin is Imam Adam bin Issa garad son idiot , read the actual manuscript instead hotep Karanle in the story

 

[Step a side]

Your comprehension skills are very bad. The issa garad dynasty
lasted From 1628 to 1750 at the end of the Awsa Imamate. Umar diin is Imam Adam bin Issa garad son idiot , read the actual manuscript instead hotep Karanle in the story

Hotep kulaha kkkk. You’re better off referencing your arguments than resorting to cheap fkd since the burden is on you to proof it. Awssa imamate would not have existed without Karanle. To be an imam of Aussa you must have Harar under your belt. Harar emirates got its independency from Awssa at the time of Amiir Ali ibn Dawud. Prior to him all the Amirs of Harar were linked with Aussa’s imams. All these Harar Amirs from the early 1600s are from Gasa’s line and were connected with Awssa imams directly.

Who do you think these 6 Harar Amirs were taking orders from? 1647 onwards Harar parted ways with Aussa.

They was direct eyewitness they saw the active players in the war direct and up close and fought with them and against.

What they wrote was way more revealing then what you saw on the surface. Because the only potentialities they saw of his ethnicity was either Arab or Somali. Not Danakil/Afar or any other group. (They ruled out him being Arab naturally though). Why? Because the army was composed of a band of Somalis clan groups and Mahra Arabs who joined for jihad.

Which is excactly in line with what Futuh shows. There was no multi-ethnic led army.

As for the specifics about his clan, i couldn't really care less but you can spam large walls of texts all day if you think it matters.

Gurey, his forefathers and descendants were always known by reer Hararge. The family is too important and too large not to be known I know you want his lineage to stay anonymous because it doesn’t align with your narratives but unfortunately for you Ethiopia has institutionalised it. Furthermore the works done on Gurey are used by European orientalist like Manfredd Kropp who wrote extensively about Ethiopia and who by the way dedicated an entire book on the “Malassay”. Portuguese records were used in tandem with others. Our opinions don’t matter. I don’t think the world’s academia would take the both of us seriously. You are free to call this spamming lakin.

 

[sultan.ali177]

Hotep kulaha kkkk. You’re better off referencing your arguments than resorting to cheap fkd since the burden is on you to proof it. Awssa imamate would not have existed without Karanle. To be an imam of Aussa you must have Harar under your belt. Harar emirates got its independency from Awssa at the time of Amiir Ali ibn Dawud. Prior to him all the Amirs of Harar were linked with Aussa’s imams. All these Harar Amirs from the early 1600s are from Gasa’s line and were connected with Awssa imams directly.

View attachment 322467

Who do you think these 6 Harar Amirs were taking orders from? 1647 onwards Harar parted ways with Aussa.



Gurey, his forefathers and descendants were always known by reer Hararge. The family is too important and too large not to be known I know you want his lineage to stay anonymous because it doesn’t align with your narratives but unfortunately for you Ethiopia has institutionalised it. Furthermore the works done on Gurey are used by European orientalist like Manfredd Kropp who wrote extensively about Ethiopia and who by the way dedicated an entire book on the “Malassay”. Portuguese records were used in tandem with others. Our opinions don’t matter. I don’t think the world’s academia would take the both of us seriously. You are free to call this spamming lakin.

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Ahmed Guray qabil was never mentioned your book is from the 19th century, that book is history of Harar and Hararis it's missing so many names , dates are also messed up , I doubt they did any research on Tarikh al muluk

 

[datesfrompuntland]

Oromo chased Reewing people from Bale, which was their original home.

Benadiri was already a dialect in the 13th century, when IBN batuta came to Xamar...

 

[Burqad]

Benadiri was already a dialect in the 13th century, when IBN batuta came to Xamar...

What does RX people have to do with Mahdoonte speaking benaderis? Brother RX people used to live in Bale, they were expelled by Oromos and moved down the shabelle river

 

[datesfrompuntland]

What does RX people have to do with Mahdoonte speaking benaderis? Brother RX people used to live in Bale, they were expelled by Oromos and moved down the shabelle river

the benadiris literally speak a dialect of reewiing and are of maternal ancestry of tunni and gar stock, you genuinely don't have a clue to benadiris ethnogenesis. even the northern bajunis who came in 700ad to the south says in origin they are a mix of garre men and bantu women. smh

 

[Daadhi Tarree]

Oromo chased Reewing people from Bale, which was their original home.

those guys were never in bali maybe more south like liban