Who were the Harla People and what is their relation to Somalis? Did they contribute to the modern Somali ethnogenesis?
- Thread starter Freudiantard
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A few points:
1. Futuh does not necessarily identify Harla as a separate tribe from Somalis (already demonstrated) @sultan.ali177 (see the previously linked thread).
2. ‘Somali’ is not an ethnic label here but specific to nomadic people from the ethnic group - treat it as bedouin as discussed in the previously linked thread @sultan.ali177
3. @Idilinaa You are right that some Harla are attributed to Darood but you don’t have sufficient evidence that it is simply a Darood subclan. @Step a side ’s argument makes more sense to be honest.
4. @Khaemwaset is correct there are definitely subclans of Harla origin amongst Cisse. There is also at least one branch of Gadabuursi with maternal Harla lineage. If the other Northern Dir clans were investigated, I am sure more links would be discovered likely even more amongst Gurgura.
5. @Idilinaa Tumaal and Gabooye do stick together and are clans- they fulfil all definitions for what a Somali clan is. They are scattered because their traditional job was fulfilled by having only a few families manufacture goods in each other.
Being in one place would over-saturate the market and I also believe there was an agreement to avoid them creating a Degaan. You are getting confused with other groups also considered Madhibaan such as those of recent Darood origin (Howrarsame) and from Gorgate Hawiye.
6. @ Step a side are we sure that the Awssa Sultanate are not themselves of Somali lineage?
7. I think we might find many of the Harla descendants amongst Afar because they assimilated a lot of Somali clans - this is not including the few families referenced here who said they were Harla. @Step a side Have you heard anything about the 'Balawta' of Afar being descended from the Balaw of Karanle - if we go with your theory that Harla is a confederation then this is a potential perfect match and would explain where the Harla brought by the Imam went. Is it true that the Karanle of Galbeed sometimes pronounce their name with a X instead of K so Xarale?
1. Futuh does not necessarily identify Harla as a separate tribe from Somalis (already demonstrated) @sultan.ali177 (see the previously linked thread).
2. ‘Somali’ is not an ethnic label here but specific to nomadic people from the ethnic group - treat it as bedouin as discussed in the previously linked thread @sultan.ali177
3. @Idilinaa You are right that some Harla are attributed to Darood but you don’t have sufficient evidence that it is simply a Darood subclan. @Step a side ’s argument makes more sense to be honest.
4. @Khaemwaset is correct there are definitely subclans of Harla origin amongst Cisse. There is also at least one branch of Gadabuursi with maternal Harla lineage. If the other Northern Dir clans were investigated, I am sure more links would be discovered likely even more amongst Gurgura.
5. @Idilinaa Tumaal and Gabooye do stick together and are clans- they fulfil all definitions for what a Somali clan is. They are scattered because their traditional job was fulfilled by having only a few families manufacture goods in each other.
Being in one place would over-saturate the market and I also believe there was an agreement to avoid them creating a Degaan. You are getting confused with other groups also considered Madhibaan such as those of recent Darood origin (Howrarsame) and from Gorgate Hawiye.
6. @ Step a side are we sure that the Awssa Sultanate are not themselves of Somali lineage?
7. I think we might find many of the Harla descendants amongst Afar because they assimilated a lot of Somali clans - this is not including the few families referenced here who said they were Harla. @Step a side Have you heard anything about the 'Balawta' of Afar being descended from the Balaw of Karanle - if we go with your theory that Harla is a confederation then this is a potential perfect match and would explain where the Harla brought by the Imam went. Is it true that the Karanle of Galbeed sometimes pronounce their name with a X instead of K so Xarale?
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Step a side
VIP
Thank you brother for this long and educational response.
The Awssa Sultanate was completely Afar. The dynasty was called Mudayito. It was insignificant and completely detached from Harar unlike the Awssa Imamate whom had waziirs at Harar while governing Awssa as imams. By the time the Afar took over Awwsa, Harar was becoming its own independent emirates. In other words the Awssa Imamate gave birth to both Awssa Sultanate and the Harar emirates each going their own separate ways
I have heard of the afar balawte but I’m not sure how they are connected. It’s not impossible lakin because people mix. This is what I found though. Don’t Afar live in obock?
Yeah I know the Imammate of Awsa was from Imam Ahmad's line but I wonder if there isn't a tie to the sultanate made by the Modaytu Afar as well.
Yes Obokh is an Afar town.
Didn't Harla have kingdoms fomr the 6th century?The surviving Harla among the Issa clan that remains that Enrico Cerruli and many other 20th century writers have had the privilege of studying claim darood. They don't claim Dir lineage.
The Ruined Towns of Somaliland* | Antiquity | Cambridge Core
The Ruined Towns of Somaliland* - Volume 11 Issue 43www.cambridge.org
And
British Somali Land : Ralph E Drake Brockman : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Book Source: Digital Library of India Item 2015.81470dc.contributor.author: Ralph E Drake Brockmandc.date.accessioned: 2015-06-30T17:10:47Zdc.date.available:...archive.org
If Harla was assimilated by Darood why are they part of Issa while claiming a separate lineage? and why would the ones in Afar claim the same separate Darod genealogy? Why do they speak their own Somali dialect and not the one spoken by Issa/Darod?
Use your common sense. Futuh groups Sedentary Harla with other Bedouin Somali tribes but also distinguishes them based on lifestyle differences.
There is Tarikh Al Mulikh and she mentions that there are other short texts on Awsa covering later periods. I am assuming its Tarikh Al-Mulikh that speak on the power installation against Somali groups in that area.
I didn't say it mentions explicitly an alliance between Isa and Harla. That's just my own theory. The name ''Harla Isa'' in the genealogy of the later rulers makes that theory seem like a possibility.
Why did Futuh specifically claim Harla as a separate tribe from somalis ?
I never seen an ciise harla ever claim darood
It has been explained to you that Harla and Somali are not ethnic labels but occupational ones.
There is no evidence that they are not ethnic Somalis or the very least proto-Somali people.
No read Enrico Islam today 1600 Umar-din Al madayti who wasn't from the guray blood took over Awsa. Afars took over after 1750
I agree I don't see any real evidence for them being somali
It is upon you to bring evidence they aren't. You're the one making extraordinary claims.
Harla are always mentioned with the Bedouins (Somali nomads). They speak Somali. They claim Somali lineages. They inhabited lands always inhabited by Somalis. They have Somali names like 'Matan Hure' in Futuh. The Futuh even lists them amongst Somali clans. Xarla/Xarale are Somali words it has a meaning in Somali.
It is really an open and shut case.
I guess you believe the Imam was some random unknown group as well.
Our people had the same practice as the Arabs before industrialisation- despite being the same ethnic group a settled Somali wouldn't call himself a Somali it was a label for nomads only. Even in the last 100 years a major Somali clan Rahanweyne would not necessarily call themselves Somali not because they aren't but because they viewed pastoralists as Somali only.
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Afar were the enemies of Awsa they begged Imam Adam Isa ( Isa garad dynasty) to help them from orormo and they still attacked when the state was at it's weakest in 1750
The first guy made the claim they were darood, They had kingdoms in the 6th century darood is like the 12th century and there no evidence claiming they are somali
Step a side
VIP
Last member of Gurey’s family that led Awssa Imamate and ruled Harar simultaneously was Imam Umar diin Adam 1647. This is when Harar emirates was born. They refused to be under Awssa imaam Umar diin Adam. At some point after 1672, Aussa declined in conjunction with Imam Umar Din bin Adam's recorded ascension to the throne.
The Harla Afar manuscripts claim descent from Darood. A similar manuscript was found in Yemen. There is an abundance of evidence indicating they were Somali or at least the most closest related group being Somalis. This, along with archeological and cultural reasons pointing to a Somali origin, was discussed in the other thread on the Futuh Al Habash.
False Imam Umar-din Al madayti took over 1600 he was not related to Ahmed Guray. Isa Garad dynasty took over 1628 according to the awsa manuscript
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It’s from the Harla manuscript study by the French chap. It was posted on here. He said a manuscript in afar territory and another lineage manuscript in Yemen both claim decent from Darood Ismail Al Jeberti. I don’t have the link but others here probably have it.
Step a side
VIP
The 6th century kingdom was made up and called Harla without any evidence to back it up. If anything they were just the last stage of proto Somalis
Nope, your text does not disagree with me. 1647 is literally the year in which the last member of Gurey’s family was in charge of both Awssa and Harar. Anything after 1647 has nothing to do with Gurey’s family. Ciise took over 1647 onwards. I even acknowledged this last year.
Post in thread 'Is there any modern Qurux illustrations of Ahmed gurey?'
https://www.somalispot.com/threads/...ustrations-of-ahmed-gurey.150983/post-3710244
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That's Wikipedia my sources come from translated copies of Arab manuscripts held in Harar read Enrico books Islam Yesterday and Today
Step a side
VIP
That was last year when my knowledge regarding Awssa was limited. I put it in there to show that Ciise were involved after 1647.
Show me what you got. 1647 and prior is all Karanle. Ciise is 1647 onwards. It coincides with the list of harar rulers compiled by Sami in his jadwal. 1647 is when Karanle dynasty at Harar ended. This same dynasty was connected to Awssa. 1647 onwards Harar would become its own emirate while awssa inmate collapsed.
I have that same book it's written by some untrustworthy Harari guy
Enrico and Pankhurst translation is straight from Tarikh al-Mujahidin & Taʾrīkh al-mulūk manuscripts
