Gacmeey
Madaxweynaha Qurbo Joogta 🇸🇴
2% of an economy is massive particularly when it is support from diaspora.
What's with Nigerians obssession with Somalia
- Thread starter Barkhadle1520
- Start date
Abdisamad
VIP
Because we are so failed, so people are using us as the minimum bar to compare with on failure.
Idilinaa
VIP
This is from region wide government survey. Most Somalis have become urbanized live in mostly towns & cities and more have became agriculturalists and fishermen. So fully nomadic/pastoralist's Somalis are a minority.
Most urban peoples income come from wage labour or through small businesses. More rural people turned to fishing and agriculture as a sources of income.
The idea that Somalia is massively supported by handouts from its diaspora is outdated. People keep repeating figures from 2012 or earlier numbers tied to the aftermath of the 2007–2009 invasion and occupation. That period saw the economy collapse, sanctions imposed, bank freezes, and fund seizures.
During those years, many Somalis were forced to rely on the diaspora more than they normally would. This changed after the return of the diaspora, foreign direct investment (FDI), and the resumption of domestic production following the establishment of a new transitional federal government in 2012.
According to a UN/World Bank study, in 2017/18 remittances accounted for only 6% of mobile money transaction value.
Mobile money represents over 90% of all transfers in Somalia, valued at about $2.7 billion per month , roughly 36% of GDP. That means remittances are around 2% of the economy
That's because from 2012 their importance fell dramatically:
''However experts acknowledged that the role of MTO in the economy has been declining since 2012 due to the return of many Somali Diasporas , and increase in the production of the domestic economy as result of new investments from both foreign investors and Somalis.''
You can see this in another 2020 survey . Remittances played a very small role for most peoples incomes. It's only like a small portion like 3-14% of their income in most places so by and large when its received its treated as a supplemental income.
Households mostly relied on wage labor or small businesses.
Overall only 8% of rural and urban population counted on remittances as their main source of income.
26% of rural households rely on agriculture and fishing and 16% rely on small businesses.
Most diaspora money coming in isn't remittances at all. It Is direct investments into various sectors as this survey from a few years ago managed to find and distinguish.
The diaspora for years now have functioned more like FDI(investors) in actuality and not a lifeline keeping people afloat.
Thanks to their return and investments, about 92% of Somalis support themselves through wage labor, business, agriculture, or fishing. The majority of the population is economically active and self-sustaining.
If Somalia’s real GDP is closer to $90 billion , as mobile money estimates from 2018 suggest that captured the informal activity, then the 1.4 billion remittances are only a small fraction of the economy.
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Idilinaa
VIP
I’m sure Barkhadle would be pleased to know about this too . Somaliland hosts an annual industrial products expo showcasing “Made in Somaliland” goods.
SL Industrial Products Expo Commences in the city
The country’s industrial production fair started yesterday in Hargeisa where by, “Preferring our industries to foreigners” was the motto this year. The opening ceremony of the fair yearly held the …
somalilandstandard.com
The industry chairman even stated clearly that the main drivers of the manufacturing sector are diaspora returnees.
There are countless examples showing how the diaspora are active investors, creating local economic growth and generating jobs across Somali territories. This should encourage more people to return, contribute, and invest.
I’m currently mapping out the various industries and production happening in Somalia and there’s a lot happening.
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Idilinaa
VIP
Failed people? You mean the same “failed” people whose domestic companies are rebuilding the country and winning global awards?
Another major global awards for team Hormuud and Somalia as a whole
Major event held in the UK. They beat South Korean, American, German, Indian, British etc telecommunication companies :salute:
www.somalispot.com
You can also look up the “Global Somali Awards” you’ll find countless examples of ventures, individuals, and businesses in Somalia achieving success.
Somalis are succeeding at home. Instead of seeking foreign approval, you should take interest in what’s actually being built.
The only real failures are the people who, instead of contributing or offering support, deride their own people and ignore the strides being made.
I doubt some ragtag local militia will be able to take on AS. Unless you think Turkey and China will offer significant military support.
You would think that the UN would take those simple variables into account w/MPI... In any case, the report goes over the criteria and your concerns:
External shock mitigation is the duty of the govt. How long do we have to hear about a drought crisis, floods and conflicts before something is done about it? Any functioning government would construct trenches, implement rainwater reuse measure and water desalination when you're constantly plagued with this issue. Droughts are only going to get worse, you either move with the times or get left behind - other countries realize this: https://www.iwmi.org/news/tunisia-j...ate-of-the-art-drought-management-technology/
Remittance is ~15% of Somalia's GDP but declining - a combination of the local economy rebounding but the diaspora also being broke! https://www.cbc.ca/news/climate/somalia-climate-crisis-remittances-1.6778232
Lol, you seem to think critiquing Somalia's current position makes you a loser. Id argue that keeping the blinders on and only focusing on the slight positives will keep you in mediocrity which is much worse.
On their own no but they will be able to hold off AS. It will be a stalemate until FGS gets its act together and overhaul the SNA.
Idilinaa
VIP
Remember, Al-Shabaab is also a loosely organized militia. It’s their unconventional tactics that give them an edge, which is why they’re relatively well-matched against the Ma’awisley
Somalia has no longer as much problem handling drought , most people aren't displaced from drought at all. They have water harvesting systems in place, storage systems and various emergency response mechanisms in place to reach the vurnerable.
''A review of the displacement patterns during the entire period shows that a district impacted by a severe drought does not always see a high level of displacement"
Also i disagree drought is not going to get worse especially outside of AS controlled areas where woodcutting is a major problem, massive reforestation initiatives have been put in places all over the country , people have been planting more than a million of trees annually added together in the last couple of years.
They have even built sub-surface dams, sand dams, burkads, haffir dams and boreholes all over the country.
They have also started to build solar powered water desalination plants in different parts of the country. This is part of why clean water access is high in Somalia at 77%
Most of the displacement actually came from the 2023 floods brought by major weather pattern called El-Nino which displaced 3 million or more. How could the government prevent/mitigate a 1 in 100 century flood? A flood that obliterated 1.5 million hectares of farmland?
This was utterly devastating it reversed soo much progress and gains for many communities.
''The 2023 Deyr floods caused 176 million in losses and damaged across sixteen districts. The floods resulted in 188 fatalities and displaced over 2 mllion people''
''According to the report, direct damages to agriculture, water and sanitation, education and other key sectors surpassed 126 million , while losses amounted to 49.5 million. The agriculture and livestock sector, requires the highest recovery investments, followed by Transport and Housing."
Now Somalia is not laying down on their back, it is resolving this to prevent this from happening in the future and prevent floods from being a problem. Other than expanding drainage in different towns to carry greater loads.
They have created a Flood Risk and Response Information Management System (FRRIMS) tool for the Jubba and Shabelle rivers here: https://frrims.faoswalim.org/
Tools like this are very important, since they can help reduce the impact of flooding. They have access to very high resolution satellite data, whereby they can monitor the rainfall that comes down from the Ethiopian highlands.
They have even created flood stations:
They mapped all the river breakages and making sure to detect went to open or close them.
You can see more about the very smart solutions the Somalia's Ministry of Energy and Water Resources has carried out:
There is more to this as the article hasn't been updated in a while.
But this assumes Somalia’s GDP is only $10–12 billion. From that perspective, $2 billion in remittances might seem like a big chunk.
What shows that this isn’t the “true” GDP is that the livestock sector alone in 2013 was measured at $8.9 billion, way higher than the government/IMF figure of $2.28 billion.
From an IGAD/ICPALD 2016 study, even in 2013 they found a discrepancy between their own direct production estimates and IMF GDP figures when they directly measured the livestock economy.
''The Production based approach places the contribution of the Livestock to the Somalia economy at 8.152 billion in 2013. This figure is above the IMF estimate of Agriculture GDP of 5.7 billion USD where livestock contributes 2.28 billion.
They even explain that the figures given by the Somali government and the IMF are due to lack of accurate statistical data and differences in methodological approach.
It also directly benefits financial institutions in Somalia. Keep in mind that this is 2013 , microfinance institutions have grown exponentially since, among other things.
Imagine how much that sector has grown since then, especially with tanneries, meat processors, dairy factories that produces products, dairy farms, and other businesses now in place post 2012. And that’s just one sector, think about the rest.
They’re missing a huge amount of informal economic activity, which mobile transfer figures help reveal: $2.7 billion a month, roughly 36% of GDP, which adds up to $32 billion a year, and $90 billion if you include the rest of the $64 billion.
Plus, studies show that in 2018 remittances made up only 6% of total value mobile money, just 2% of the economy. The 2020 income/livelihood survey showed most people 92% , don’t even rely on it. They earn from business, wage labor, agriculture, or fishing. Which implies there is large domestic capital formation.
Somalia is anything but mediocre. It’s made huge leaps and innovations in a short time, and the next 3–4 years are going to be even more transformative if you’ve seen the plans and the scale of investments coming in.
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I get where you’re going but let’s not act like this is any excuse for somalia.
“I cut my legs off and burned my house, what’s your excuse?”
40 years of statelessness is self inflicted.
Not really self inflicted tbh
Maybe not the initial catalyst. But the ensuing chaos and anarchy is a sign of a failed culture and society.
other nations and peoples will have civil wars and periods of unrest. But they do not continuously and perpetually destroy their prople, their infrastructure and any progress to rebuilding.
for the past 30 years, it has been somalis killing somalis, somalis starving somalis, somalis stealing from somalis and somalis against somalis.
Just look at the current government’s corruption as well as the people’s complacency.
We used to jokingly say Syria will rebuild itself before Somalia. Now it’s a reality. Next Palestine will rebuild before Somalia.
many countries have been in civil war and have been through destruction. Yet their people are resilient and look for the future.
All our current problems were created by foreign interventions in the 2000s, it's hypocritical and ignorant to say that Somalis didnt manage to solve their problems on their own cause they did, but then our neighbors and western powers wouldn't let a strong somali state emerge, hence why you have fgs right now
Idilinaa
VIP
Somalia hasn’t been stateless for 40 years, far from it.
And you don’t have to take my word for it. Foreign researchers who actually study the region are constantly correcting that myth. There are regional states that tax and regulate trade.
Somalia has made real progress in a short time, mostly using its own resources, because we don’t sit around waiting for handouts. We get to work.
There’s no excuse for them. Instead of doing something about their own situation, they’d rather sit around making up stories in their heads about how bad Somalia is, just to make themselves feel better. That’s loser behavior. Their downfall is self-inflicted not Somalia’s because Somalis actually organize, cooperate, build, and uplift each other. The results i have shown throughout the threads shows.
Idilinaa
VIP
Ok lets break down each of these claims because its complete nonsense.
Somalis don't steal from each other. In Somalia theft is rare and it's economy runs on a system based on cross border communal trust. How many reports do you see of robberies happening in Somalia or home invasions?, you almost hear none of this happening. Instances of fraud and people getting cheated is also relatively rare.
If Somalis were stealing from one another we wouldn't trust eachother at all:
Entrust we must: The role of 'trust' in Somali economic life
Entrust we must: The role of 'trust' in Somali economic life
Somalia is the type of country where you can trade gold and exchange cash out in the open without much security.
Somalis don't kill eachother , Somalia has one of the lowest murder rates in the world.
Somalia Homicide Rates In 2004
Damn look how low it was intresting more then a decade ago
www.somalispot.com
Somaliland and Puntland Crime Statistics in 2021
Crime Statistics in the 1st 10 months of 2021: Somaliland total cases : 19230 Murders: 89 all but 5 perpetrators apprehended. Rapes: 232 an increase from 142 reported in 2020. abandoned infants: 40 and 25 of them were rescued the remaining 15 died. Puntland Total cases: 9100 serious crimes...
www.somalispot.com
Somalis also don't starve eachother at all. I have made it clear that most of Somalia is food secure and the markets are filled with food:
How fast can we stop relying on Food aid?
Western-Somaliland has a massive intensively cultivated landmass and extending into Fafan zone. Togdheer, Sanaag, Sool, Bari, Western Mudug and Western Galgaduud I don't know how they could grow their food. I suspect these regions import most of their grain. Here there aren't enough regions...
www.somalispot.com
They grow food for local consumption and they import food from the southern part of the country, across the country, as well as as abroad not necessarily aid but through purchasing. What they have done is many areas is recreate what's grown in the south locally rice, beans, maize, sorghum. They have access to various grains, vegetables, fruits, poutry, eggs , meat , dairy etc. The farms are variable .
Their farms are not intended to grow them at large commercial scale like in the south.
Notes from Global Food security cluster
"Reports indicate that overrall food security conditions in Puntland are normal, with most households able to meet their basic food needs"
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This is pretty much reflective of most of Somalia's market across all states are-stocked with food of every type and its available.
From the Joint Markets and Supply Chain Update | 16 – 30 April 2025
View attachment 363760
Somalia - WFP Fortnight Joint Markets and Supply Chain Update | 16 – 30 April 2025 - Somalia
Situation Report in English on Somalia about Food and Nutrition, Logistics and Telecommunications, Drought and Flash Flood; published on 6 May 2025 by WFPreliefweb.int
And Somalia has pretty much rebuilt most of their country and their infrastructure, are expanding infrastructure projects all over. For more than a decade and half cross regionally it has been going through a construction boom.
If you go through major parts of Somalia today all that you would hear would be construction noise not civil war or fighting. You see people cooperating and sharing resources.
Report from 2014
Report from 2016
Somalia has rebuilt itself and is building itself into something greater. People are not complacent at all.
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Idilinaa
VIP
They probably meant to take a dig at Johnny Somali that habesha incel, since it was a Korean. It was a conversation about America as well.
