What would Somalia be like if civil war never happened?

[Hybrid]

half a million Somalis wouldn't have died of starvation and Somalia wouldn't have broken the world record for the most dangerous country in the world.

 

[World]

If the civil war never happened, i would be chilling in xamar right now with two big booty abgaal wives feeding me mango and papaya.

 

[Cumar]

Tbh, I still think turning point for Somalia was 1977 Ethio-Somali war, not breakout of civil war in '91. Barre was a benevolent dictator before '77 and arguably a pretty nationalistic and decent prez.

Aftermath of '77 war made him see enemies in his own people. The rest is history.

 

[World]

Tbh, I still think turning point for Somalia was 1977 Ethio-Somali war, not breakout of civil war in '91. Barre was a benevolent dictator before '77 and arguably a pretty nationalistic and decent prez.

Aftermath of '77 war made him see enemies in his own people. The rest is history.

The SSDF was formed in 1978 and they tried to take oust Siad Barre with the help of the Ethiopians. Imagine that, seeking the help of Ethiopia 1 year after our mujahids fought against them. I would say that the turning point in Somalia was when Aideed and the USC started butchering innocent civilians from different qabiils and tried to cleanse Xamar from it's "non natives". I remember my mum telling me a story of an Isaaq (think HY) whose qabiil was Bah Dhulbahante so they said he's equivalent to a Darood and butchered him. Maniacs.

 

[Mali Mo]

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[Cumar]

The SSDF was formed in 1978 and they tried to take oust Siad Barre with the help of the Ethiopians. Imagine that, seeking the help of Ethiopia 1 year after our mujahids fought against them. I would say that the turning point in Somalia was when Aideed and the USC started butchering innocent civilians from different qabiils and tried to cleanse Xamar from it's non natives. I remember my mum telling me a story of an Isaaq (think HY) who got killed by them, his qabiil was Bah Dhulbahante.

SSDF was justified in my opinion because in Mudug region in '78 government forces raped women, poisoned grazing wells and participated in clan cleansing as collective punishment against innocent civilians. I viewed that first instance of state violence and repression against its own people when the government and Barre lost the moral authority to rule. There was also wide scale execution of military generals from clans that Barre saw as opposing him following '77 war. It was also sinister precursor of what was to befall the Isaaq in Waqooyi few years later.

What happened to non-Hawiye residents in Xamar in 1991 was also clan cleansing you are correct, but that was non-state actors who were perpetrating it and taking advantage of the power vacuum left by collapse of the regime. It was sick byproduct of lawlessness and base savagery.

Even by about 1989 Xamar had daily massacres, the most infamous one was Jazeera mosque massacre in Xamar, about 100 Isaaq males were dragged out of a mosque, marched to Jazeera beach and executed on the spot by governent soldiers.

 

[XawoTako]

What do you guys think if Siad Barre peacefully stepped out of office and allowed a democratic election to take place?

What would Somalia be like today? No derailing please, the truth is if Siad Barre stepped out of office then there would be no civil war. So I don't want any qabils or any negativity, just tell me what would Somalia be like? @Bohol please keep on eye on these fools if they try to derail the thread and not willing to be intellectually honest.

I think Mogadishu would look like this if the civil war never happened.

Richest and most beautiful country in east Africa because somali Somalia is blessed with natural resources but we are too busy fighting with each other

 

[World]

SSDF was justified in my opinion because in Mudug region in '78 government forces raped women, poisoned grazing wells and participated in clan cleansing as collective punishment. I viewed that first instance of state violence and repression against its own people when the government and Barre lost the moral authority to rule. There was also wide scale execution of military generals from clans that Barre saw as opposing him following '77 war. It was also sinister precursor of what was to befall the Isaaq in Waqooyi few years later.

The state didn't condone the raping of innocent women, if that happened then it was by individual soldiers. Yes they collectively punished those in the Mudug region, but that was after they chose to rebel against the government with the help of the Ethiopians. What justification did SSDF have? They were power hungry, which is why they later joined the government. Abdullahi Yusuf later seeked(for the second time) the help of the Ethiopians to fight the ICU in Somalia.

What happened to non-Hawiye residents in Xamar in 1991 was also clan cleansing you are correct, but that was non-state actors who were perpetrating it and taking advantage of the power vacuum left by collapse of the regime.

They turned a rebellion against the government into a clan war. If they didn't cleanse the city of non-Hawiye residents, and formed a government with all the other non-state actors, then Somalia would have been stable within a year or two. But we know that they cleanesed the city from non-Hawiye, then they stole power for themselves, then they fought among themselves for 27 years and ruined Somalia in the process.

 

[Cumar]

The state didn't condone the raping of innocent women, if that happened then it was by individual soldiers. Yes they collectively punished those in the Mudug region, but that was after they chose to rebel against the government with the help of the Ethiopians. What justification did SSDF have? They were power hungry, which is why they later joined the government. Abdullahi Yusuf later seeked(for the second time) the help of the Ethiopians to fight the ICU in Somalia.

They turned blind eye to human rights tragedy. I am sure they knew what was going on when they sent army in and didn't stop it. That is no way to rule. What I am saying is that once those in power will do anything to stay there including butchering their own people, then they are morally unfit to rule.

Do rebel groups share some of the blame for the civil war? Of course they do. But collective punishment is not the answer, that is why we got in this mess. Few power hungry guys used innocent people as pawns in their quest for power with no regard for their wellbeing.

They turned a rebellion against the government into a clan war. If they didn't cleanse the city of non-Hawiye residents, and formed a government with all the other non-state actors, then Somalia would have been stable within a year or two. But we know that they cleanesed the city from non-Hawiye, then they stole power for themselves, then they fought among themselves for 27 years.

I agree with you here. USC and its clan cleansing campaign in '91 is the reason Xamar will never be viewed as national capital again by non-Hawiye clans. That is why you see federalism as the main result of what happened in '91. The crimes of rape, pillaging, and looting that happened there was on a truly shocking scale.