What the hell did we do to her ? A girl from Niger said “I don’t like Somalia” when asked “which country you don’t like “

Apollo

Staff Member
I thought we were mixed with Nutfians who were from the Levent regions.

They were related to the pre-civilizational Egyptians and it is not easy to detect what is pre-dynastic Egyptian vs what is Natufian/early Neolithic Levantine.

Sort of like how ancient Senegalese and ancient Nigerians were related/similar-ish populations (pan-West African).
 

Shimbiris

بىَر كَىَل إيه عآنه له
VIP
I thought we were mixed with Nutfians who were from the Levent regions.

Well, obviously anyone coming from the Levant would have settled in Egypt for a time. And I don't believe we are truly pure Natufian descendants once you remove the ancient Yemeni. It's most likely that there was something on a spectrum between Iberomaurusians and Anatolian Hunter-Gatherers, similar to Natufians, in Egypt with some real Levant admixture that brought the Neolithic cultural package. Just need ancient DNA to confirm it.

Our dominant Y-DNA lineages (E-M35) in the Horn ultimately come from the late Paleolithic Maghreb whereas our Eurasian mtDNA lineages are a mix of paleolithic North-African that probably came from West-Asia during the paleolithic era and more recent seeming lineages like K1a and my own N1a that look blatantly Anatolian. North-Africa (+Levant) has been a long-time mixing ground between Anatolian types and indigenous North-Africans who are the source of E-M35 for a long time by the looks of it:

You may have a point about the sampling bias, honestly. I find it hard to fathom that they're usually even finding people less proto-Nilotic than Copts. That makes no sense. Copts have no West-African ancestry. The non-Eurasian elements in them (excluding ANA) appear 100% proto-Nilotic like what's in Somalis and Habeshas so how does that jibe? They couldn't really have gotten that from the slave-trade. It would at least carry West-African admixture within it or they'd have West-African admixture outside of it like the Muslims do.

I think they probably are biasing their sampling toward more markedly non "Negroid" looking samples and sites and, as I've heard, maybe even dismissing anyone with too much of a "Negroid" slant as "Nubian". It is hard to fathom, even for some of the biggest anti-"SSA" racists in the anthro community that at least SOME people in places bordering Nubia like Luxorians didn't have at least some elevated proto-Nilotic like 10-20% or more.



Yes. Some believe in a later hypothesis that they are in fact Natufian admixed or what have you but that is anachronistic. If you observe their global PCA positioning it fits too well with the original paper's claim that they're about 40-50% non-Eurasian:

aNBy8Z4.png


Just past Tigrinyas who are 50% Eurasian and 50% non-Eurasian according to formal stats. Fits too perfectly with the proposition that they are around 45% non-Eurasian. Then there's the smoking gun Y-DNA wise; E-M35. It's closest relatives are all in Africa like in Mota and West-Africans. E itself may have been a back-migration or a cut-off from the proto-Eurasians before they left Africa around 50kya but it's definitely been a mostly non-Eurasian lineage for the last 50,000 years at minimum. So 100% non-Eurasian Y-DNA and Eurasian maternal lineages + the PCA position and the original paper's stats modeling them as 45% non-Eurasian which fits with the PCA position perfectly? Works too well for me, saxiib.

I think future data will vindicate the following though I'm interested in seeing otherwise:
  • ANA population exists along the Maghreb and maybe across North Africa
  • This is an non-Eurasian group that did not participate in the Eurasian bottleneck
  • Though their predecessors may have been early close relatives of the proto-Eurasians
  • Sometime probably before the Kebaran, Dzudzuana (Anatolian) type HGs expand into North Africa and mix with ANAs
  • A basically 50:50 population in terms of auDNA arises but ANA Y-DNA is dominant while Anatolian type mtDNA is dominant
  • The descendants of this group, Iberomaurusians (IBMs) expand eastwards into the Levant and are why Natufians and the like have E-M35 lineages
  • Then there is another migration out of the Levant due to the spreading of animal and plant domestication, and whatever, probably intermediate between IBMs and Natufians, group living in Egypt gets admixed into with new Anatolian and maybe a little bit of Iranian and Caucasus HG elements due to this and these are the core MENA ancestors of Egyptians, Sudanese, Horners and other East Africans
You have questions about some of the more nitty gritty details involving the archaeological cultures involved like in the Maghreb but I honestly can't go too much into that with any certainty until we have more data. But I do think the expansion into West Asia from North-Africa by IBM types is probably marked by the Kebaran.

 

Shimbiris

بىَر كَىَل إيه عآنه له
VIP
@Apollo

N1a is a doozie. You know how amused and shocked I was when I kept seeing my lineage's sister clade all over Neolithic Europe? N1a1a1 is very common for Anatolian farmers in Europe, even saw it pop up in a Sintashta culture sample. 😂The clade most common in Somalis like me is N1a1a3. My ayeeyo was an ayeeyo to cadaans too, saxiib. 💀
 

Apollo

Staff Member
Horners are essentially eastern Sahelians who became an intermediate between between Egyptians and Nilotes and who then migrated southwards into a northern part of Sub-Saharan Africa and gained some later Horn-HG and ancient Yemeni admixture. Her people are in turn western Sahelians who became an intermediate between Maghrebis and West-Africans. They're like a mirror image to us .

Difference between the Western Sahel and the Horn is though that visibly Berber influenced Fulanis and Afro-Tuaregs are in the minority.

The more ''pure'' type of West Africans tend to be demographically dominant in many places in the Sahel. For instance, Burkina Faso, a West Sahelian country is really majority near pure West African.
 

Apollo

Staff Member
@Apollo

N1a is a doozie. You know how amused and shocked I was when I kept seeing my lineage's sister clade all over Neolithic Europe? N1a1a1 is very common for Anatolian farmers in Europe, even saw it pop up in a Sintashta culture sample. 😂The clade most common in Somalis like me is N1a1a3. My ayeeyo was an ayeeyo to cadaans too, saxiib. 💀

Don't give @Sophisticate an identity crisis. She already didn't like that T in Somalis was semi-recent South Semitic. 😂
 

Grigori Rasputin

“No more your dad” “your mom loofs me”
Staff Member
Wariyaha SomaliSpot
The striking thing bout Niger is the strong Arab influence in their tradition, culture and even langauge. I've met people from Niger who're very dedicated to learn standard Arabic. Tbh Niger is more worthy of a seat in the Arab league than Somalia or Djibouti. These people at least speak it and heavily influenced by Arab culture.

Incredibly, in the video, about almost all of them showed admiration for Saudia Arabia. That came across as a surprise for me.
I’d expected it to be France.
 

Apollo

Staff Member
Incredibly, in the video, about almost all of them showed admiration for Saudia Arabia. That came across as a surprise for me.
I’d expected it to be France.

There is a big Hausa and Fulani community in Saudi Arabia.

Many of them even have Saudi citizenship.

Hausas and to a lesser degree Fulanis are peculiar people. They have laangaab isolated communities scattered between Chad, Sudan, Eritrea, and Saudi Arabia who were doing Hajj and never went back.
 

Shimbiris

بىَر كَىَل إيه عآنه له
VIP
The striking thing bout Niger is the strong Arab influence in their tradition, culture and even langauge. I've met people from Niger who're very dedicated to learn standard Arabic. Tbh Niger is more worthy of a seat in the Arab league than Somalia or Djibouti. These people at least speak it and heavily influenced by Arab culture.

Didn't know that. Niger has always been a weird blindspot for me. But what you say goes for Chad too, to some extent. Chadians are an interesting lot. A lot of them are basically Arabized former Chadic speakers who lived across what is now Sudan and Chad like the Baggara Arabs. Though they are also extremely interesting in being very "Cushitic" in their material culture. They used domed mat-tents, for instance and dressed very much like other Sudanese and Horners with the white tobes and whatnot.
 
Didn't know that. Niger has always been a weird blindspot for me. But what you say goes for Chad too, to some extent. Chadians are an interesting lot. A lot of them are basically Arabized former Chadic speakers who lived across what is now Sudan and Chad like the Baggara Arabs. Though they are also extremely interesting in being very "Cushitic" in their material culture. They used domed mat-tents, for instance and dressed very much like other Sudanese and Horners with the white tobes and whatnot.

Yeah them too. Chad & Niger are anomaly in Africa.
 
There is a big Hausa and Fulani community in Saudi Arabia.

Many of them even have Saudi citizenship.

Hausas and to a lesser degree Fulanis are peculiar people. They have laangaab isolated communities scattered between Chad, Sudan, Eritrea, and Saudi Arabia who were doing Hajj and never went back.

I believe they're dubbed Takaroni. Former freed slaves who chosen to stay in Saudi instead of migrating back to their ancestoral homeland in Africa and thus awarded the tribe (last name) of thier masters clan when slavery was abolished.


There are also massive Burman and Turkik Ozbakistani population in Saudi Arabia who assimilated into Saudi culture and carry it's citizenship in Mecca & Madina.
 

Grigori Rasputin

“No more your dad” “your mom loofs me”
Staff Member
Wariyaha SomaliSpot
Who cares if a negro dislikes Somalia? The only opinion that matters is from Arabs and whites

You, my friend, is mentally slaved.
It should matter that another shithole African country things of you as the greatest shit sewage of the world.

Why elevate the white men to a deity?
 
You, my friend, is mentally slaved.
It should matter that another shithole African country things of you as the greatest shit sewage of the world.

Why elevate the white men to a deity?
Whites are the dominant power in this world, if they dislike Somalis there is much in power they can do to f*ck up my life. Arabs are similar but to a regional extent.
But if a negro from a shithole country says "I hate Somalis" why should I care? What can he do to change my life? Exactly, nothing.
 
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Qeelbax

The Greatest of Mankind (after the prophets 🤠)
@Apollo

N1a is a doozie. You know how amused and shocked I was when I kept seeing my lineage's sister clade all over Neolithic Europe? N1a1a1 is very common for Anatolian farmers in Europe, even saw it pop up in a Sintashta culture sample. 😂The clade most common in Somalis like me is N1a1a3. My ayeeyo was an ayeeyo to cadaans too, saxiib. 💀
Can I see a list/screenshot?
 

Sophisticate

Staff Member
@Sophisticate your ayeeyo was an ancient Turki qoti and your awoowo was an ancient Levantine-Mesopotamian qoti.

Sorry My Bad GIF by chuber channel

I'm unconcerned with haplogroups. N1a1a3 can also be found in Neolithic Germany and among Habeshi who we share little with.

I also do not believe we are like those in the Sahel. That's an oversimplification. Proto-Nilosaharan is not the same as West African (which I know I'm aggregating together) and Northwest African is not the same as Northeast African. Our various inputs are not the same and it would be impossible to recreate.
 

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