What do you think about this thread?

[Midas]

have never heard a Muslim say we should not make advancements in the material world. I have heard people say, "Don't think that makes you better". -- which is a fact. There is an important grounding caution tale about don't become like the "builders" who attach their superiority to their ability to build, because time and time again in the Quran, such people are humiliated. However, this has never meant, and rarely is interpreted as, building itself being an inherent problem. Pushing advancements in technology is accepted by nearly every Muslim. In fact, I would say the West is disillusioned by these days because they see how that alone cannot bring the best life.

The main idea that is being critiqued is exactly this. We copy their methods and technology and even the post colonial critique they came up with. our states our compeleltey subjected to them with no real industrial base of their own. But we wag our fingers and say. "were morally superior to you and you guys will eventually be humiliated as well "

Then theres the fact you have all of these Muslims thinkers who seem to be deacades behind on integrating any of the modern modern thinkers or developing any real theories of the state. What you instead find is people talk about "governing with sharia" as if that's even a coherent concept

 

[The alchemist]

The main idea that is being critiqued is exactly this. We copy their methods and technology and even the post colonial critique they came up with. our states our compeleltey subjected to them with no real industrial base of their own. But we wag our fingers and say. "were morally superior to you and you guys will eventually be humiliated as well "

Then theres the fact you have all of these Muslims thinkers who seem to be deacades behind on integrating any of the modern modern thinkers or developing any real theories of the state. What you instead find is people talk about "governing with sharia" as if that's even a coherent concept

No. The main idea pushed by this cartoonist display is what I posted. You added other things my friend that you frame yourself, imbued by your thoughts and values.

 

[Midas]

Basically if your talk about how the muslim world should develop or industrialize and somebody brings up

1) theology
2) aqeedah
3) decolonization

You should baiscally run. If you guys onky knew the history of the modern middle east and how many times political islamism has been tried and how its basically failed every single time or has never been able to successfully takeover the state. You'd be utterly blackpilled.

 

[Zak12]

Basically if your talk about how the muslim world should develop or industrialize and somebody brings up

1) theology
2) aqeedah
3) decolonization

You should baiscally run. If you guys onky knew the history of the modern middle east and how many times political islamism has been tried and how its basically failed every single time or has never been able to successfully takeover the state. You'd be utterly blackpilled.

Islamism actually worked in Somalia

 

[Midas]

Islamism actually worked in Somalia

How ? It failed terribly. It got the attention of the world's number 1 superpower and was utterly crushed. They weren't even smart enough to realize that considering what happened to Afghanistan and Iraq they'd be next and should have tried to use any avenues to escape or negotiate .

 

[Midas]

No. The main idea pushed by this cartoonist display is what I posted. You added other things my friend that you frame yourself, imbued by your thoughts and values.

People give lip service to the idea that Muslim world should be developed. But in actuatality any of the real hard steps required will be met with immediate pushback. The dudes post was obviously somewhat of a bait post. Yet it was still a reflection on how massive the industrial capacity of the u.s was to build something so advanced 60 years ago and what was the response to this tweet ? For people in the comments to chimp out and talk about how decadent the west was

 

[Midas]

People give lip service to the idea that Muslim world should be developed. But in actuatality any of the real hard steps required will be met with immediate pushback

Here's a perfect example.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&quot;Actually pursuing victory or trying to win without going down an intention purity spiral will ensure you always lose anyways&quot; <a href="https://t.co/qlPn22sUei">https://t.co/qlPn22sUei</a></p>&mdash; Timsa7 (@Omarnksa) <a href="">August 30, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Jimmy Hopkins]

How ? It failed terribly. It got the attention of the world's number 1 superpower and was utterly crushed. They weren't even smart enough to realize that considering what happened to Afghanistan and Iraq they'd be next and should have tried to use any avenues to escape or negotiate .

So essentially a Theology isn't quite compatible and doomed to fail and Islam in our context should solely be used as a Moral Guide and Worldview but Governance should solely be Pragmatic while taking Islam's Perception of Leadership in question but not an Established Theology.

Did I get that right? Is that what we should do?

 

[Midas]

So essentially a Theology isn't quite compatible and doomed to fail and Islam in our context should solely be used as a Moral Guide and Worldview but Governance should solely be Pragmatic while taking Islam's Perception of Leadership in question but not an Established Theology.

Did I get that right? Is that what we should do?

When has govt ever been an established theology? What does if your an ashari or a maturidi have anything to do with how modern governance is done

You should realize there's a fundamental difference between the personal moral and spiritual life of an individual and politics. Theres a reason one of the most famous maxims in islam is ulema should maintain distance from the rulers.

You as well as most of the people in this forum and for sure the avg muslim are probably under the assumption that everything in the past was done under some sharia court with a sharia judge ? But in actuality there was another court called the mazalim and it was known as the sultans court and was for other purposes . These mazalim courts existed even in the Mamluk period

The Ottomans since their beginning used a type of law called qanun that was seperate from the sharia

 

[Midas]

The simplistic notions of the role ulema played in society in the past and how sharia was understood is proably one of the biggest problems we have today.

Even using the term sharia is problematic since thats a refrence to the divine law and isnt something humans enage in. Fiqh is the thing humans do and its the understanding and interpretation of this divine law by scholars.

 

[Zak12]

How ? It failed terribly. It got the attention of the world's number 1 superpower and was utterly crushed. They weren't even smart enough to realize that considering what happened to Afghanistan and Iraq they'd be next and should have tried to use any avenues to escape or negotiate .

Hindsight is 50/50, and they only ruled for 6 months

 

[Soul Kaizer]

life doesnt mean anything anyway in the grand scheme of things.

That is the most selfish opinion I have ever heard in a long while. Tell the people of Palestine that their suffering doesn’t matter in the grand scheme because life is temporary.

Just because there is an afterlife doesn’t mean you should negate this life. Infact this life is more important as it decides where you will go. Once you are in heaven or hell the journey has ended.

 

[Soul Kaizer]

I have heard people say, "Don't think that makes you better". -- which is a fact.

It does in fact make you better. This is where I take my main issue it’s the weak man’s snobbiness instead of understanding the value power has you push it to the side so you can win a subjective battle which is moral superiority.

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying: A strong believer is better and is more lovable to Allah than a weak believer, and there is good in everyone, (but) cherish that which gives you benefit (in the Hereafter) and seek help from Allah and do not lose heart, and if anything (in the form of trouble) comes to you, don't say: If I had not done that, it would not have happened so and so, but say: Allah did that what He had ordained to do and your" if" opens the (gate) for the Satan.


Sahih Muslim 2664

Sahih Muslim 2664 - The Book of Destiny - كتاب القدر - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

A strong Muslim world is superior to a weak one. A rich Muslim is superior to a poor one. A strong Muslim is superior to a feeble one. An intelligent Muslim is superior to a stupid one. A wise Muslim is superior to an ignorant one.

Humility is a great virtue but in excessiveness it makes you unambitious and meek.

You say the ulema are forward thinking but all I see is people still arguing over hundred year old topics.

Do the ulema talk about the ethics of stem cell technology, gain of function research, gene editing in humans or any other precedent issues. Or do they wait for the white man to pioneer all of those and make decisions when it’s already been applied.

 

[Soul Kaizer]

How ? It failed terribly. It got the attention of the world's number 1 superpower and was utterly crushed. They weren't even smart enough to realize that considering what happened to Afghanistan and Iraq they'd be next and should have tried to use any avenues to escape or negotiate .

Their idea of progress for the Muslim world is not a net of nation states which fulfill each other industrial, technological and agricultural niches so that they can be an independent whole. But a dozens of terrorist militias running around a dissolved state causing havoc just to be bombed into irrelevance when Uncle Sam gets annoyed by them and infinite refugee camps.

You see it when Jolani took over Syria they instantly wanted him to suicide attack Isreal. Even Isreal try to provoke him into attack but he never took the bait. I pray that these types of people are not in Jolanis circle.

 

[cunug3aad]

That is the most selfish opinion I have ever heard in a long while. Tell the people of Palestine that their suffering doesn’t matter in the grand scheme because life is temporary.

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Just because there is an afterlife doesn’t mean you should negate this life. Infact this life is more important as it decides where you will go. Once you are in heaven or hell the journey has ended.

I meant in the context of technological advancement because a rocket is not going to build your janno. Whats going to build your janno is being patient and consisteny in cibaada and the palestinians know for all the military might of israel their heinous activities only take away from their aakhiro

They should still struggle for victory though as Allaah commanded us

 

[Soul Kaizer]

I meant in the context of technological advancement because a rocket is not going to build your janno. Whats going to build your janno is being patient and consisteny in cibaada and the palestinians know for all the military might of israel their heinous activities only take away from their aakhiro

They should still struggle for victory though as Allaah commanded us

No one is denying the importance of building your akirah all we saying this world is also important which includes worldly things.