What destroyed these cities?

[Emir of Zayla]

It would be interesting though if they found a manuscript confirming Mogadishu also considered itself Zayla’i because there are multiple medieval maps that include it as part of the kingdom of Adal / Zayla.

According to one of my older posts they called themselves by the nisba Al-Maqdīshū

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/medieval-muslim-scholars-from-the-horn-in-yemen-and-red-sea.153232/

 

[Three Moons]

According to one of my older posts they called themselves by the nisba Al-Maqdīshū

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/medieval-muslim-scholars-from-the-horn-in-yemen-and-red-sea.153232/

It makes sense, Mogadishu was a major city and power in its own right, but we should also remember that there were scholars from Zayla’s sphere of influence that referred to themselves as Al-Jabarti rather than Al-Zayla’i.

 

[ibrahym]

There are signs of a political alliance, and its clear that the people of Zayla and the people of Mogadishu saw each other as one, as Ibn Battuta also highlighted, but medieval Somalia was more like Al-Andalus, with various Muslim polities part of a single cultural and Islamic sphere yet separate politically for most of their history but with the right ruler also perfectly ripe for a unification like the Kalmar Union.

It would be interesting though if they found a manuscript confirming Mogadishu also considered itself Zayla’i because there are multiple medieval maps that include it as part of the kingdom of Adal / Zayla.

@Garaad diinle What do you think

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

True, his plans for it could’ve been only for symbolic worth to both Christians and Muslims. Tho Axum wasn’t really a backwater town, it was the city that all Abyssinian kings had to have their coronations and other important religious activities had to take place there. Tho I don’t see any strategical important to Axum so idk how it even came to such a great power in antiquity.

If the Muslims won at Wayna Daga then the Oromos would’ve stayed a random tribe in the backwaters that would’ve been exterminated/assimilated due to migrations that would come afterwards

Mogadishu and Benadir (tho I’m not too sure on the latter) was also already under Adal.

First of mogadishu isn't something seperate from banaadir it's part of it, it's like saying makkah and hijaz . Banaadir coast is Banaadir coast and Adal is Adal no relation or correlation whatsoever

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

According to one of my older posts they called themselves by the nisba Al-Maqdīshū

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/medieval-muslim-scholars-from-the-horn-in-yemen-and-red-sea.153232/

Al Maqdishi* it's a nisbah to the town used alongside nisbah to a lineage like Al Qahtani, Al Cafiifi , Al Hatimi etc

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

It wasn’t an urbanised town is what I should have said, with little to no influence on the wider region compared to its ancient imperial era, though its capture by Adal was no doubt a severe psychological blow to the Abyssinians. The type of bad news that might have sent Lebne Dengel early to his grave.



Assimilation and conversion would have meant a huge reservoir of manpower for Adal.



There are signs of a political alliance, and its clear that the people of Zayla and the people of Mogadishu saw each other as one, as Ibn Battuta also highlighted, but medieval Somalia was more like Al-Andalus, with various Muslim polities part of a single cultural and Islamic sphere yet separate politically for most of their history but with the right ruler also perfectly ripe for a unification like the Kalmar Union.

It would be interesting though if they found a manuscript confirming Mogadishu also considered itself Zayla’i because there are multiple medieval maps that include it as part of the kingdom of Adal / Zayla.

Which Arab tribes resided in Zaylac? People of Muqdisho used the nisbah Al Maqdishi alongside nisbah to their tribe, those maps are incorrect then, otherwise it would be mentioned in manuscripts

 

[Three Moons]

Which Arab tribes resided in Zaylac?

Relevance? Genuine question.

People of Muqdisho used the nisbah Al Maqdishi alongside nisbah to their tribe,

Medieval examples (1100-1600)?

those maps are incorrect then, otherwise it would be mentioned in manuscripts

Ibn Battuta considered Mogadishu and Zayla as part of one continues country resided by the same people i.e the ancestors of the modern Somali people. The Misfaha Milad also highlights the political relationship between Mogadishu and Zayla against Abyssinia, so there are enough contemporary primary sources to justify those medieval maps, and with further research more would come to light.

 

[Garaad diinle]

@Garaad diinle What do you think

I pretty much agree with him. Somaliweyn was connected by a complicated network of camel caravan and trade with a robust information exchange network. Information and news travelled through these camel caravans and foreigners such as the Italian explorers were impressed by the speed of information sharing in the somali peninsula. Burton the english explorer also noted on how somalis already knew about the crimean war and were discussing it among themselves.

As you may well know there is not much writing history in the somali peninsula but still we have some writing evidence of how the somali people were connected with each other. Firstly you've got the adal sultanate, we know roughly where their rule might've stretched for example on the coast their rule reached at the very least as far as berbera and we know this thanks to the story of the arab sheikh in berbera and the adal sultan in dakar, Now this is woqooyi.

In the futuh there were a special contingent in the army of the imam named the harti. They were the only clan that arab faqih bothered to mention where they came from. It's clear that they were reinforcement sent from bari to help in the futuh. This similar to how they wanted to help out other fellow somalis in hararghe in the early 20th century.

The excerpt is talking about somalis from both bari and gobolada dhexe. One portuguese writer noted how people of gardafuu acknowledged the sultans of adal as an imam, probably a symbolic acknowledgment. Now this is bari.

The solomonic dynasty mentioned mogadishu in relation to adal and one time they wrote about a military alliance between adal and mogadishu, they probably meant the ajuuran in this case. Very similar to how the named harti clan came from bari to help out in the futuh but the help that was sent from mogadishu was much larger in scale. Now this is koonfur.

These are examples from what little writing evidence we have of connection between different parts of somaliweyn in the interior, on the other hand we already know that somalis on the coast were already connected and seen as one people.

 

[Internet Nomad]

What do you think would’ve happened if Ahmad had won the battle of Wayna Daga? I want to hear your thoughts

I think about this question every day.

 

[HabarSteven12]

I’ve said this before actually, Ahmad was planning to make Axum the “Constaninople” of the Horn doing the same thing that Mehmet did with the Byzantines to legitimize his rule in the region and blend both muslim/christian cultures (check vid 9:42). If he didn’t have any scruples with the Ottomans he wouldn’t have lost the Battle of Wayna Daga and all of Abyssinia would be incorporated into Adal. He would’ve also probably have made a new dynasty as well too considering he was sitting his son up to be the Emperor (Negash) of both the realms of the lowlands and highlands

Yeah, the only difference is they recovered but we didn’t until the early modern age but we would’ve way faster if it weren’t for the barbarian Oromos, who brought nothing good with their migrations, no material or intellectual culture, no revolutionary religion, and no organization or development, just a bunch of backwards squatters.View attachment 296456

Imam Ahmed came close to extinguishing the ancient Ethiopian kingdom. Imam Ahmed had no intention of relocating the capital of the Adal sultanate to Axum. His goal was to stop the expansionist policies of the Solomonic dynasty, establish Muslim independence and autonomy and end the hefty taxation imposed by the Solomonic leaders on the Muslims. Muslims were forced to pay tribute to the Solomonic dynasty and it was crippling their economy.

Imam Ahmed accomplished all his goals. There was no strategic or economic advantage to making Axum the capital of the Adal sultanate. Imam Ahmed actually conquered axum, defeated its ruler and prayed in king Najashi's grave. Also, the Christians in Axum were not as hostile and aggressive towards Imam Ahmed compared to the Christians in the regions inhabited by Amharas.

 

[HabarSteven12]

Which Arab tribes resided in Zaylac? People of Muqdisho used the nisbah Al Maqdishi alongside nisbah to their tribe, those maps are incorrect then, otherwise it would be mentioned in manuscripts

Asalamu aleykum Brother. The banu aqeel, particularly the Omar Al-saylici clan, controlled the city of Zeila. It was Arab immigrants from Yemen that revived and rebuilt the city of Zeila. Prior to that, it was controlled by the Ancient Arabs from Himyar. The Arabs of Mogadishu and Zeila had extensive trade and social interaction.

 

[Three Moons]

It makes sense, Mogadishu was a major city and power in its own right, but we should also remember that there were scholars from Zayla’s sphere of influence that referred to themselves as Al-Jabarti rather than Al-Zayla’i.

To add to this is another example that supports the term ‘Al-Zayla’i’ being the Somali equivalent of ‘Al-Andalus’; one of the most famous Al-Zayla’is in history is Abdirahman Al-Zayla’i, who was born in the 1820s in a town close to Mogadishu and who studied under major southern scholars like Sheikh Isma'il b. Umar al-Maqdishi.

He could have chosen the Nisbah Al-Maqdishi or any other ‘southern’ influenced term, but he chose al-Zayla’i. It’s very telling that the only scholars to continue that tradition were Somali scholars.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

Asalamu aleykum Brother. The banu aqeel, particularly the Omar Al-saylici clan, controlled the city of Zeila. It was Arab immigrants from Yemen that revived and rebuilt the city of Zeila. Prior to that, it was controlled by the Ancient Arabs from Himyar. The Arabs of Mogadishu and Zeila had extensive trade and social interaction.

Source?

 

[Somali_patriotic]

Asalamu aleykum Brother. The banu aqeel, particularly the Omar Al-saylici clan, controlled the city of Zeila. It was Arab immigrants from Yemen that revived and rebuilt the city of Zeila. Prior to that, it was controlled by the Ancient Arabs from Himyar. The Arabs of Mogadishu and Zeila had extensive trade and social interaction.

Icl you're actually extremely stupid
Al Zayla'i is a nisbah not a clan
Also do you have evidence that they're arabs? Yemenis said they were dark skinned people

 

[Internet Nomad]

So basically a dark age in the Somali peninsula after the failure of the Futuh?

Ahmad Gurey wanted his conquest of Axum to be like the Conquest of Constantinople some 90 years before him. He wanted a quick war to unite as much of the horn under an Islamic empire. However it took over a decade and eventually led to failure as we know due to Portuguese interference on behalf of the Abyssinians.

People always talk about what Habashi lost during the war but rarely is it mentioned the land and cities Somalis lost after the war failed.

Your part mentioning pastoral way becoming more common is probably when The world Somali became most used. Since Somal means Nomad. Somalis named themselves differently depending on way of life.

Do you think it would be a powerful move to rename Somalia Adal in the future. As a sign of we are coming out of the dark ages leaving the predominantly nomadic living to an urban expansive empire.

Same way india is trying to rename to baharat .

Using the old name our ancestors used prior to the dark age would be a moral uplifter and could make it more easier for muslims in the horn to join us as the nation is not name after a single people.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

The collapse of Adal in the North and Ajuraan in the South coincides with the abandonment of multiple cities such as the ones above, but also others like Nimmo, Hannassa, Nugaal Valley ruins, Mudun, Gondershe, etc both on the coast and in the interior.

This means the trade network that once sustained those stone cities was disrupted, and we know the Conquest of Abyssinia had a disastrous effect on both sides. If you combine this with the Oromo migrations, and the Portuguese blockade in the Indian Ocean, it makes sense why people slowly began to adapt the Somal lifestyle i.e Pastoralism, because it was less dependent on outside political factors when it came to survival and prosperity, and was only at the mercy of God’s natural laws.

What people don’t realise is that the Christians and Muslims in the Horn had a extremely lively trade that made both groups very rich to the point where one group had enough wealth to commission large religious monuments and buildings in the case of the Christians, while the other thrived with the construction of dozens of major stone cities all across Somalia in the case of the Muslims.

The Futuh was not meant to be a prolonged international war, but a swift conquest with a clear victor. The Portuguese prevented that from happening and therefore the trade routes that thrived before the war were never re-established. Many of the trade road cities that profited from that bustling commerce declined and were abandoned.

The once regional mother cities like Zeila, Berbera, Harar, Mogadishu, etc continued to stumble on with minor revivals here and there, but were shadows of their former selves. In this age of city-states that followed, the urban settlements that thrived the most were the smaller castle towns such as Qandala, Bardera, Alula, Afgoye, which catered more to the Pastoralist lifestyle (the Berbera fair is a good example) than the previously mixed urban / farming / pastoralist make up of the medieval period.

I would assume that the trade routes between the Muslims/Christians in the Horn would look something like this: