What are the origins of the berbers

Procopius, byzantine historian born in ancient palestine wrote -the berbers are a posterity of cananaeans who fled from the rabbi joshua.. they built two columns in phoenician.

Moses of chorene and suda both record the same legend.

Sallust, yet another roman historian wrote that berbers were remnants of the army of hercules.
 

Apollo

Staff Member
Moderator
Procopius, byzantine historian born in ancient palestine wrote -the berbers are a posterity of cananaeans who fled from the rabbi joshua.. they built two columns in phoenician.

Moses of chorene and suda both record the same legend.

Sallust, yet another roman historian wrote that berbers were remnants of the army of hercules.
The Berber language family predate the Romans by thousands upon thousands of years.
 
My knowledge on this is based on peer-reviewed genetics papers and linguistic studies. It is also the mainstream view while your shit is some retarded bullshit. Berbers do not even genetically cluster with Phoenicians. There are both ancient DNA samples from the Maghreb and Canaan. You are propagating lies again.
Are not the Dir T haplogroup while hawiye and darood are mainly E, while sharing a region and language? Stop trying to throw history books out of the window, you are ignoble and conceited. Genetics cant answer every question.
 

Apollo

Staff Member
Moderator
Are not the Dir T haplogroup while hawiye and darood are mainly E, while sharing a region and language? Stop trying to throw history books out of the window, you are ignoble and conceited. Genetics cant answer every question.
Most ethnic groups have multiple haplogroups. It does not prove anything. Tigrays for instance have even more, yet they cluster autosomally together. Moreover, genetics is much much more than just haplogroups.

I don't even think you understand the very basics of genetics based on the above ludicrous statement, no offence.

There is zero. I repeat ZERO genetic evidence that the majority of Berber's ancestry comes from the Phoenicians.

There are ancient whole genomes available from the Guanche who were never in contact with Phoenicians and they are pretty much the same as all other Berbers.

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(17)31257-5




Highlights
  • The first genome-wide data from the Guanches confirm a North African origin

  • The Guanches were genetically most similar to modern North African Berbers

  • Modern inhabitants of Gran Canaria carry an estimated 16%–31% Guanche autosomal ancestry
 
Most ethnic groups have multiple haplogroups. It does not prove anything. Tigrays for instance have even more, yet they cluster autosomally together. Moreover, genetics is much much more than just haplogroups.

I don't even think you understand the very basics of genetics based on the above ludicrous statement, no offence.

There is zero. I repeat ZERO genetic evidence that the majority of Berber's ancestry comes from the Phoenicians.

There are ancient whole genomes available from the Guanche who were never in contact with Phoenicians and they are pretty much the same as all other Berbers.

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(17)31257-5




Highlights
  • The first genome-wide data from the Guanches confirm a North African origin

  • The Guanches were genetically most similar to modern North African Berbers

  • Modern inhabitants of Gran Canaria carry an estimated 16%–31% Guanche autosomal ancestry
first off, stop getting triggered. I do what every history class in the world does, and that is present history and legends and discuss them. These are not my inventions. You can call it a legend but its not lies i am propagating. This is not the genetics sections, so cool your head and respectfully leave if you wont be civil about discussing historical manuscripts in the History section.
 
Strabo of the 1st century BC says- the maurusians braided their hair, grew beards, wore hair ornaments, paired their nails, fought with javalins, dressed like the masasyli of numidia, and like most other libyan tribes.
 
Last edited:

Factz

Factzopedia
VIP
Procopius, byzantine historian born in ancient palestine wrote -the berbers are a posterity of cananaeans who fled from the rabbi joshua.. they built two columns in phoenician.

Moses of chorene and suda both record the same legend.

Sallust, yet another roman historian wrote that berbers were remnants of the army of hercules.
I think you're conflating Carthage history with the Berber people. The Phoenicians are northern Canaanites that once dominated Lebanon.

The ancient Phoenician city-states were getting persecuted by Persians so they fled to the west of Mediterranian sea to maintain a Phoenician monopoly on an area's natural resources, and to conduct trade free of outside interference. The foundation of Carthage establishement was in 814 BC.

As for Berbers. We do know that they were here since the beginning of written history, and in fact, the Greeks wrote about them often. In Greek sources, most notably those of Herodotus, they are called the Libyans. But, what about before written history?

Essentially, about ten thousand years ago a population wave from the near East swept over North Africa, bringing in gracile Mediterranean people in the Capsian era. A later wave of immigration occurred in the Neolithic when the expanding farmers from the near east ploughed their way across North Africa, some leaving artwork in the central Sahara to mark their passage.
 
Gabrinius the roman wrote-"nasamones wear gold, polish their teeth... follow horse breeding exceptional interest... they wear unbelted robes... they have many wives and children and resemble the wandering shepherds of arabia... they curled their hair"
 
@Libaaxseendheer would rather delude himself into thinking these haratins from West Africa are real ethnic Berbers/North Africans:
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

and falsely accuses actual ethnic Berbers/NAs of being "invaders" or "fake Africans":
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Embrace reality & move on. Somalis should reject Afrocentrism, since sooner or later the racist Afrocentrist jareers will also accuse us of being "invaders" as well.
 
Last edited:
I think you're conflating Carthage history with the Berber people. The Phoenicians are northern Canaanites that once dominated Lebanon.

The ancient Phoenician city-states were getting persecuted by Persians so they fled to the west of Mediterranian sea to maintain a Phoenician monopoly on an area's natural resources, and to conduct trade free of outside interference. The foundation of Carthage establishement was in 814 BC.

As for Berbers. We do know that they were here since the beginning of written history, and in fact, the Greeks wrote about them often. In Greek sources, most notably those of Herodotus, they are called the Libyans. But, what about before written history?

Essentially, about ten thousand years ago a population wave from the near East swept over North Africa, bringing in gracile Mediterranean people in the Capsian era. A later wave of immigration occurred in the Neolithic when the expanding farmers from the near east ploughed their way across North Africa, some leaving artwork in the central Sahara to mark their passage.
Im not the one conflating them. Its the romans and greeks who are using the same term 'mauri' when speaking of both of them. The inhabitants of carthage and mauretania were both called phonecians albeit at later dates and circumstances did they arrive.

The greeks who wrote of the berbers, earliest being herodotus, were close to two thousand years after the exopulsion of the cananites by joshua.
I think you're conflating Carthage history with the Berber people. The Phoenicians are northern Canaanites that once dominated Lebanon.

The ancient Phoenician city-states were getting persecuted by Persians so they fled to the west of Mediterranian sea to maintain a Phoenician monopoly on an area's natural resources, and to conduct trade free of outside interference. The foundation of Carthage establishement was in 814 BC.

As for Berbers. We do know that they were here since the beginning of written history, and in fact, the Greeks wrote about them often. In Greek sources, most notably those of Herodotus, they are called the Libyans. But, what about before written history?

Essentially, about ten thousand years ago a population wave from the near East swept over North Africa, bringing in gracile Mediterranean people in the Capsian era. A later wave of immigration occurred in the Neolithic when the expanding farmers from the near east ploughed their way across North Africa, some leaving artwork in the central Sahara to mark their passage.
Its not me who conflates the two but the ancients. As you said carthage was established in 814 bc, while the expulsion of amelakites/cananites by Joshua took place at the time of well the exodus(13th century BC and beyond).The founding of carthage is completely different situation, time frame and circumstance than that of the story of hercules and afer, the cananite amalekites chiefs who fled their region at the hands of moses and joshua, and their subsequent establishment of settlements across north africa. Both the berbers and the carthigians are called cananites and phonecians.

I've listed numerous arab historians who claimed the berbers anciently descended from cananites.
 
There are found in arab histories a people called arab al-ba'idah or the destroyed arabs. These comprise of the 'adites, thamudites, and amlekites. They are said in arab trafitions to have trespassed and where thus faced with destructive calamities that left little of their abode. As we know 'ad and thamud are mentioned in the quran but imliq aee also heavily featured in classical arab histories and hadith traditions.

Imaliiq were a people, who inhabitted the a region called valley of the kanawna(corresponds to south of mecca) and yamamah region (central arabia). they were a mighty people who trespassed gods laws and were thus stricken with firstly plagues and then a flood. According to Alsamhudi 15th c, they shortly afterwards went north to conquer egypt and neighboring parts of syria. Al-masudi records the same, abulfeda, tabari, ibn kathir and many others i've yet to mention also record this tradition.
 
Tarikh al-tabari- " i was told that tasm and jadis were dwellers of the yamamah. At that time, alyamamah was a fertile and highly cultivated land... they were ruled by a ruler of the tasim, wicked and tyrannical, his name was Imliq."
 

Factz

Factzopedia
VIP
Im not the one conflating them. Its the romans and greeks who are using the same term 'mauri' when speaking of both of them. The inhabitants of carthage and mauretania were both called phonecians albeit at later dates and circumstances did they arrive.

The greeks who wrote of the berbers, earliest being herodotus, were close to two thousand years after the exopulsion of the cananites by joshua.

Its not me who conflates the two but the ancients. As you said carthage was established in 814 bc, while the expulsion of amelakites/cananites by Joshua took place at the time of well the exodus(13th century BC and beyond).The founding of carthage is completely different situation, time frame and circumstance than that of the story of hercules and afer, the cananite amalekites chiefs who fled their region at the hands of moses and joshua, and their subsequent establishment of settlements across north africa. Both the berbers and the carthigians are called cananites and phonecians.

I've listed numerous arab historians who claimed the berbers anciently descended from cananites.
The ancient and medieval historians are not trustworthy. They are not academic and their scriptures are unauthentic & fabricated.

You have to trust modern scholars who have conducted full research and have the anthropological, genetic and historical evidence to back up their sources.
 
Tabari- "imliiq who is urayb, and Tasm and Umaym, are sons of Lud son of Shem son of Noah. Imliiq is the father of the imliqs from whom came the berbers, who are children of thamila bin ma'rib, bin faran, bin amr ibn imliiq bin lud bin shem..."
 
EAkYYEqXUAES_jc.jpg sabaic.gif
On the top is tifinagh( which many scholars defined as meaning 'belonging to finagh/punic)
And at the bottom is the the script of the erythrean kingdom of Saba'.

There are 5 identical symbols and many more that bear uncanny resemblance
 

Latest posts

Top