Whale carried Earth on it's back according to Islamic belief.

[JohnDoe]

This is the tafsir of Ibn Abbas on the first verse of Surah Nun:

And from his narration on the authority of Ibn ‘Abbas that he said regarding the interpretation of Allah’s saying (Nun): ‘(Nun) He says: Allah swears by the Nun, which is the whale that carries the earths (plural because 7 samawat) on its back while in Water, and beneath which is the Bull and under the Bull is the Rock and under the Rock is the Dust and none knows what is under the Dust save Allah."

For those of you who'll say 'Ibn Abbas is a nobody.'' Muhammad considered him important enough to make the following supplication:
''Oh Allah, grant him (ibn Abbas) understanding in the religion and teach him the interpretation of the Qur'an.

 

[JohnDoe]

@TheSayid Are you just going to keep thumbing down stuff or actually address these beliefs your best tafseerists hold?

 

[Paidmonk]

fake narrations/myth reminds of the hindu believe that a bull is keeping the earth with its horn.

 

[Paidmonk]

According to islam though,killing a muslim is haram and guarantees eternal hell but Saudi are bombing the hell of yemeni,alshabab/isis are doing suicide missions in mosques and hotels frequented by muslims.that is the greatest contradiction i see in islam.

 

[JohnDoe]

@Paidmonk They're all as absurd as one another. And what's worst is people kill each other over this stuff

 

[Mugheerah]

According to many of the ulamaa, this story has no basis in Islam. It's believed that Ibn Abbas (radhiyallahucanhumaa) learned it from Ka'ab ibn Al-Ahbar who in turn, got it from the scriptures of the people of the book. They (the Israelites) are known to contain many fabricated stories. Ibn Abbas (RA) was undoubtedly one of the wisest and most knowledgeable men of this ummah, but this story was not narrated neither by the prophet, nor can it be found in the Qur'an. The only sources that can be completely relied upon are the Qur'an and Ahadith (from the prophet SAW).

 

[JohnDoe]

According to many of the ulamaa, this story has no basis in Islam. It's believed that Ibn Abbas (radhiyallahucanhumaa) learned it from Ka'ab ibn Al-Ahbar who in turn, got it from the scriptures of the people of the book. Their (the Israelites) are known to contain many fabricated stories. Ibn Abbas (RA) was undoubtedly one of the wisest and most knowledgeable men of this ummah, but this story was not narrated neither by the prophet, nor can it be found in the Qur'an. The only sources that can be completely relied upon are the Qur'an and Ahadith (from the prophet SAW).

Why then do atleast seven of the major tafseerists (ibn Kathir included) narrate this creation story? And if this story is from the Banu-Isra'il then point out to me where this story is found in their scriptures?

 

[Mugheerah]

Why then do atleast seven of the major tafseerists (ibn Kathir included) narrate the creation story? And if this story is from the Banu-Isra'il then point out to me where this story is found in their scriptures?

They narrated it as a probable explanation ma garatay. The only information we can accept without a doubt is that which came from the prophet (SAW). Ibn Abbas (RA), who is the cousin of the Prophet (SAW) did not say that it was the prophet (SAW) that told him ma fahamtay, thus it's not revelation.

 

[JohnDoe]

They narrated it as a probable explanation ma garatay. The only information we can accept without a doubt is that which came from the prophet (SAW). Ibn Abbas (RA), who is the cousin of the Prophet (SAW) did not say that it was the prophet (SAW) that told him ma fahamtay, thus it's not revelation.

You see saaxib, it probably is the correct explanation as in Surah Anbiyaa, Jonah is referred to as 'Dhan-Noon' because of his stay inside the whale. You do realise by what you're saying your disagreeing with not only Ibn Kathir but also Al-Qurtubi, Al-Baghawi and several other respected interpreters of the Qur'an. If you're saying they were wrong on this point then where else did they misunderstand Allah's word? Moreover, by you saying Ibn Abbas got this wrong you're implying Muhammad's supplication to Allah for Allah to 'teach him (Ibn Abbas) the interpretation of the Qur'an' was never accepted.

 

[Mugheerah]

You see saaxib, it probably is the correct explanation as in Surah Anbiyaa, Jonah is referred to as 'Dhan-Noon' because of his stay inside the whale. You do realise by what you're saying your disagreeing with not only Ibn Kathir but also Al-Qurtubi, Al-Baghawi and several other respected interpreters of the Qur'an. If you're saying they were wrong on this point then where else did they misunderstand Allah's word? Moreover, by you saying Ibn Abbas got this wrong you're implying Muhammad's supplication to Allah for Allah to 'teach him (Ibn Abbas) the interpretation of the Qur'an' was never accepted.

Nope, I'm not implying that the supplication wasn't accepted. The supplication was in fact accepted and ibn Abbas (RA) became one of the most knowledgeable. How does the name 'Dhul-Nun' mean that it's most likely to be the correct interpretation? Have you lost your mind?

ذو means possessed النون means by the whale. Walle what you said is literally illogical and makes no sense.

Most musaffireen included stories in their books to explain a specific verse to give an idea. They didn't say that the story of the whale carrying the earth was an undeniable fact. They've merely quoted ibn Abbas (RA), who didn't narrated that story from the Prophet (SAW) because had that been the case, he would have said قال رسول الله صَل الله عليه وسلم

 

[JohnDoe]

Nope, I'm not implying that the supplication wasn't accepted. The supplication was in fact accepted and ibn Abbas (RA) became one of the most knowledgeable. How does the name 'Dhul-Nun' mean that it's most likely to be the correct interpretation? Have you lost your mind?

ذو means possessed النون means by the whale. Walle what you said is literally illogical and makes no sense.

Most musaffireen included stories in their books to explain a specific verse to give an idea. They didn't say that the story of the whale carrying the earth was an undeniable fact. They've merely quoted ibn Abbas (RA), who didn't narrated that story from the Prophet (SAW) because had that been the case, he would have said قال رسول الله صَل الله عليه وسلم

You accept 'Noon' means whale. So my point being that the word whale was mentioned in this verse and Ibn Abbas with the gift of foresight Allah supposedly gave him joined the dots. If this narration had such a weak base then why did so many of the exegists bother to mention it?

 

[Mugheerah]

You accept 'Noon' means whale. So my point being that the word whale was mentioned in this verse and Ibn Abbas with the gift of foresight Allah supposedly gave him joined the dots. If this narration had such a weak base then why did so many of the exegists bother to mention it?

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL @ 'so you accept nun means whale', so what if it does? Lol are you now implying that Muslims believe ibn Abbas (RA) was infallible?

This narration was NEVER accepted as a fact. Just because the word Nun is used, it means the narration has some basis? You're a joke wallahi. You have the reasoning abilities of an infant.

Even though it's not accepted as a fact, it has been made reference to by many of the mufassireen because it's the only narration that they're aware of regarding this issue.

How can you derive that whole narration from the words ن? Wallahi doqon baa tahay. He obviously heard it from someone and it wasn't the prophet (SAW).

No-one's spiritual 'insights' are accepted as facts. Wallahi dhadhaan baa tahay. The only insight that's accepted its the prophet (SAW)'s one and that is revelation. Ibn Abbas (RA)'s words are not revelation ma garatay.

 

[JohnDoe]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL @ 'so you accept nun means whale', so what if it does? Lol are you now implying that Muslims believe ibn Abbas (RA) was infallible?

This narration was NEVER accepted as a fact. Just because the word Nun is used, it means the narration has some basis? You're a joke wallahi. You have the reasoning abilities of an infant.

Even though it's not accepted as a fact, it has been made reference to by many of the mufassireen because it's the only narration that they're aware of regarding this issue.

How can you derive that whole narration from the words ن? Wallahi doqon baa tahay. He obviously heard it from someone and it wasn't the prophet (SAW).

No-one's spiritual 'insights' are accepted as facts. Wallahi dhadhaan baa tahay. The only insight that's accepted its the prophet (SAW)'s one and that is revelation. Ibn Abbas (RA)'s words are not revelation ma garatay.

Why don't I hear this strong opposition from the likes of Ibn Kathir or Qurtubi who were alot more knowledgeable than you in the field of Islam. They would've surely been the first to disregard anything that didn't come from the 'Prophet' no?
And as for the barrage of insults you spout out at me I have this to say.
''and when the foolish ones address them, they simply say: "Peace to you"; Surah Furqan.

Follow what you chant during taraweeh you fool.

 

[Mugheerah]

Why don't I hear this strong opposition from the likes of Ibn Kathir or Qurtubi who were alot more knowledgeable than you in the field of Islam. They would've surely been the first to disregard anything that didn't come from the 'Prophet' no?
And as for the barrage of insults you spout out at me I have this to say.
''and when the foolish ones address them, they simply say: "Peace to you"; Surah Furqan.

Follow what you chant during taraweeh you fool.

Ok, I may not be a perfect Muslim but let's look at the facts here. You're just ignorant (I don't mean it in a rude way). The mufassireen did not state that this is a fact. NO ONE has. It has never been accepted as a reliable narration. But this is the strongest narration that the mufassireen could use in their tafsir regarding this issue ma fahamtay (solely because it's from ibn Abbas). We've never accepted this narration because it's not from the prophet (SAW). The prophet (SAW) has ordered us to neither believe nor disbelieve in the narration of the people of the book ma garatay because despite the fact that they've corrupted their scriptures, some aspects of it may still be revelation. The scriptures of the people of the book are ever-changing, not to mention the different sects they have within their circles.

Here are the facts; ibn Abbas (RA) did not get that narration from the Prophet (SAW) and only narration a coming from the Prophet (SAW) are accepted as facts, so obviously ibn Abbas (RA) got it from somewhere else. You cannot possibly derive this whole narration from the word 'nun' itself dude lol.

Basically, this is how the books of tafsir are laid out: first you have the ayah, then the explanation and then narration a regarding that ayah, mufassireen usually use ahadith of the Prophet (SAW) or the narration(s) of the Salaf. The mufassireen QUOTE ibn Abbas (RA), they don't state it as a fact, stop lying about scholars of Islam.

 

[Mugheerah]

@JohnDoe In fact ibn Kathir mentions that this narration has no basis in Islam... I didn't reach this book of his yet as I'm not on that level.

al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer pointed out in al-Bidaayah wa’n-Nihaayah (1/15) – after mentioning a number of weird reports, including this hadith – that "it is one of the Israa’eeliyyaat (reports from Jewish sources) and said: In this report with this isnaad, as-Suddi mentions many weird things; it is as if many of them came from the Israa’eeliyyaat".

 

[Mugheerah]

@JohnDoe I only like to debate people when they're 100% honest. You've lied about scholars by falsly attributing things to them, you've clearly decided to sprout false information to discredit Islam and to further your propaganda. You've been exposed as a liar and untrustworthy (to debate with). No one will believe what you have to say after this. I'm out.

 

[JohnDoe]

Ok, I may not be a perfect Muslim but let's look at the facts here. You're just ignorant (I don't mean it in a rude way). The mufassireen did not state that this is a fact. NO ONE has. It has never been accepted as a reliable narration. But this is the strongest narration that the mufassireen could use in their tafsir regarding this issue ma fahamtay (solely because it's from ibn Abbas). We've never accepted this narration because it's not from the prophet (SAW). The prophet (SAW) has ordered us to neither believe nor disbelieve in the narration of the people of the book ma garatay because despite the fact that they've corrupted their scriptures, some aspects of it may still be revelation. The scriptures of the people of the book are ever-changing, not to mention the different sects they have within their circles.

Here are the facts; ibn Abbas (RA) did not get that narration from the Prophet (SAW) and only narration a coming from the Prophet (SAW) are accepted as facts, so obviously ibn Abbas (RA) got it from somewhere else. You cannot possibly derive this whole narration from the word 'nun' itself dude lol.

Basically, this is how the books of tafsir are laid out: first you have the ayah, then the explanation and then narration a regarding that ayah, mufassireen usually use ahadith of the Prophet (SAW) or the narration(s) of the Salaf. The mufassireen QUOTE ibn Abbas (RA), they don't state it as a fact, stop lying about scholars of Islam.

Again, this did not come from the the scriptures of the Old and New Testament so you're making a baseless claim.

@JohnDoe I only like to debate people when they're 100% honest. You've lied about scholars by falsly attributing things to them, you've clearly decided to sprout false information to discredit Islam and to further your propaganda. You've been exposed as a liar and untrustworthy (to debate with). No one will believe what you have to say after this. I'm out.

Can you point out where I've lied? And I've provided references for most of what I've said. You on the other say 'oh it's from the Jews' and fail to point out where in The Bible this narration is found. If anyone's lying it's you saaxib.

 

[Mugheerah]

Again, this did not come from the the scriptures of the Old and New Testament so you're making a baseless claim.



Can you point out where I've lied?

Sure...

You do realise by what you're saying your disagreeing with not only Ibn Kathir but also Al-Qurtubi, Al-Baghawi and several other respected interpreters of the Qur'an. .

al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer pointed out in al-Bidaayah wa’n-Nihaayah (1/15) – after mentioning a number of weird reports, including this hadith – that "it is one of the Israa’eeliyyaat (reports from Jewish sources) and said: In this report with this isnaad, as-Suddi mentions many weird things; it is as if many of them came from the Israa’eeliyyaat".

You're a fraud sxb. Come off it. Have you read all the scriptures that the people of the book had in circulation since ancient times? Yeh, I thought not. Anyway, even if it's not from the people of the book, the main point is, it's not revelation. Mentioning something as irrelevant as this shows what an intellectual midget you are walle.

 

[JohnDoe]

Sure...



al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer pointed out in al-Bidaayah wa’n-Nihaayah (1/15) – after mentioning a number of weird reports, including this hadith – that "it is one of the Israa’eeliyyaat (reports from Jewish sources) and said: In this report with this isnaad, as-Suddi mentions many weird things; it is as if many of them came from the Israa’eeliyyaat".

You're a fraud sxb. Come off it. Have you read all the scriptures that the people of the book had in circulation since ancient times? Yeh, I thought not. Anyway, even if it's not from the people of the book, the main point is, it's not revelation. Mentioning something as irrelevant as this shows what an intellectual midget you are walle.

This does not prove I'm lying in anyway way whatsoever as I haven't said the narration came from Muhammad but rather the most eminent of exegists. You've seem to backtrack from your claim this came from the Bible as expected. I can pick out alot more silly things from the Qur'an itself but all you'd reply with is 'be and it is.'

 

[Mugheerah]

This does not prove I'm lying in anyway way whatsoever as I haven't said the narration came from Muhammad but the most eminent of exegists. You've seem to backtrack from your claim this came from the Bible as expected. I can pick out alot more silly things from the Qur'an itself but all you'd reply with is 'be and it is.'

Lol more lies... I've said that this narration is not accepted by us and you responded by saying that I'm disagreeing with the mufasirren by saying that. I proved it to you the mufasirreen don't accept it. Your whole thread is baseless. Wallahi this was the easiest debate I've had with an atheist.

Wanna carry on lying?