Was Zeila originally afar?

[Khaemwaset]

Brothers, the tweet has few views and likes. We Somalis should stop commenting any BS we se online about us, they do it to make us react and spread their anti Somali views.

It's just typical afar twitter behaviour. Always got the Ciise in their mouths. Not our fault we finnesed them niggas.

Makes sense then they would spread anti Somali posts, we bodied them like the white man did to the native Americans.

Ciise victory

 

[Al Adnani]

This doesn't prove anything other than your ignorance. Djibouti and Zeila were both under nominal ottoman vassalage, one Afar governor doesn't prove Zeila was an Afar city.

And Somalis having 1 governor doesn’t prove Zeila is a Somali city. Also that’s not their only governor of Zeila, they have another.

 

[Khaemwaset]

And Somalis having 1 governor doesn’t prove Zeila is a Somali city. Also that’s not their only governor of Zeila, they have another.

That's the most stupidest thing I've ever read.
Somalis having a governor on a short ottoman occupation of the city is nothing compared to all the hard evidence of Somali rule and population in the city.
Afars only have a couple governors installed by the ottomans before they got kicked out.

But keep crying for your afar brothers. Another victim ethnicity discrediting the work of the Noble Somali out of envy. Nothing new.

 

[Garaad diinle]

That's the most stupidest thing I've ever read.
Somalis having a governor on a short ottoman occupation of the city is nothing compared to all the hard evidence of Somali rule and population in the city.
Afars only have a couple governors installed by the ottomans before they got kicked out.

But keep crying for your afar brothers. Another victim ethnicity discrediting the work of the Noble Somali out of envy. Nothing new.

Don't bother with him. Self hate isn't easy to cure. Someone who's parroting afar talking point might as well be considered an honorary afar. I remember an afar showing me this post from twitter/x and all i had to do is simply look into the original source, something that often times proves them wrong.

The original report and letter didn't include anything of the sultan of tadjoura ruling anywhere other than his little village rather what it said was that tadjoura was part of adal and zeila. Makes sense since not only was muhammed al-bar/barre extracting tribute from tadjoura but also sharmarke ali saleh was doing the same thing and even going as far as to order them not to allow the french to use tadjoura. I even remember reading about the presence of somali traders in tadjoura.

Here is the original source.

Voyage de l'Arabie Heureuse par l'Océan Oriental et le Détroit de la Mer Rouge, fait par les François ... dans les années 1708-1710. Avec la relation ... d'un Voyage fait du port de Moka à la Cour du Roy d'Yemen, dans la seconde expedition des années

www.google.se

 

[Hamzza]

Ibn battuta referred to a city when he said Zeila tho not a region, also somali inhabited lands ends at al juba? Ibn battuta didn't visit it to know most likely i believe

Do you have a source of afar inhabited lands being's referred to as Barbar?
The general name for horn of africa was Al habesha in al habesha was Barbar
I'm yet to come across sources claim afar inhabited lands as barbar infact many geographical separated it and call it Dakkal or danakil

When he says the first part of their country is called Zeila, he is clearly talking about the vast region of Adal or Bar Sa'ada Din, not the town itself. Isn't this so clear to see from his writings?

then i went from Aden by sea, and after four days came to the city of Zaila. This is a city of the Berbers, a people of Soudan, of the Shifia sect. Their country is a desert of two months' extent. The first part is termed Zaila, the last Makdashü.

The term Berber itself is ambiguous and we don't know for certain who exactly it refers to all the time. Some of the Arab sources after Ibn Battuta called Mogadishu and its environs Bilad al Zanj, are you prepared to say Somalis South of Mogadishu are different from the Somalis North of it?


I don't see any reason why Afars couldn't come under the Berber umbrella, They are no different from the Somalis in customs & religion and every description of the Somalis perfectly fits them.

 

[Al Adnani]

Don't bother with him. Self hate isn't easy to cure. Someone who's parroting afar talking point might as well be considered an honorary afar. I remember an afar showing me this post from twitter/x and all i had to do is simply look into the original source, something that often times proves them wrong.

The original report and letter didn't include anything of the sultan of tadjoura ruling anywhere other than his little village rather what it said was that tadjoura was part of adal and zeila. Makes sense since not only was muhammed al-bar/barre extracting tribute from tadjoura but also sharmarke ali saleh was doing the same thing and even going as far as to order them not to allow the french to use tadjoura. I even remember reading about the presence of somali traders in tadjoura.

Here is the original source.

Voyage de l'Arabie Heureuse par l'Océan Oriental et le Détroit de la Mer Rouge, fait par les François ... dans les années 1708-1710. Avec la relation ... d'un Voyage fait du port de Moka à la Cour du Roy d'Yemen, dans la seconde expedition des années

www.google.se

Lmao you purposely didn’t post the other pages of the source to push an agenda. Easily debunked (first 3 original sources next 3 translations) I know you’ll still deny it even after everything I’ve provided because ur racist towards afars

 

[Cartan Boos]

No bro. But I don't have evidence of Somalis inhabiting the town before the 19th century either. What I was saying was that Ibn Battuta's description of Zeyla could perfectly fit the Afars as well as the Somalis.

No Somalis and afar are not that much similar, Somalis never were bare chested not sharpen their teeth sxb how are we the same and letting these tiny savages claim our cities is heartbreaking

 

[Hamzza]

No Somalis and afar are not that much similar, Somalis never were bare chested not sharpen their teeth sxb how are we the same letting these tiny savages claim our cities is heartbreaking

You're talking from a place of ignorance as always. Have you never seen a nomadic Issa? Almost all of them have sharpened teeth and although they now cover themselves I doubt they were doing that 100 years ago

 

[Cartan Boos]

You're talking from a place of ignorance as always. Have you never seen a nomadic Issa? Almost all of them have sharpened teeth and although they know cover up I doubt they were doing that 100 years ago

The few that assimilated into afar culture yes, how am I talking ignorance when that's their culture sxb, u Harti walaal why compare us to afar? Somalis n afar were never the same and will never be the same

 

[Garaad diinle]

Lmao you purposely didn’t post the other pages of the source to push an agenda. Easily debunked (first 3 original sources next 3 translations) I know you’ll still deny it even after everything I’ve provided because ur racist towards afars

I've literally posted a page with a number on it alongside the book that i got it from. Do you really need me to walk you through every step and point out where to find the letter like a child?

I see you've went through the effort of providing all three pages with their translation congratulation little lad but there is still one crucial step missing i'm afraid. Could you be so kind as to point us to where in these three pages dose it say that the ruler of tadjoura is the ruler of zaylac or that he is the governer of zaylac?

 

[Hamzza]

The few that assimilated into afar culture yes, how am I talking ignorance when that's their culture sxb, u Harti walaal why compare us to afar? Somalis n afar were never the same and will never be the same

They are not few. Almost every nomadic Issa sharpens his teeth carries a Golxad... etc. They are indistinguishable from the Afars in custom, dress and their aggressive warrior style, this is something noted by every anthropologists.

 

[Somali_patriotic]

When he says the first part of their country is called Zeila, he is clearly talking about the vast region of Adal or Bar Sa'ada Din, not the town itself. Isn't this so clear to see from his writings?

In his actual book he says Zeila is a city of barbars
Never did he refer to it as a region but a city which belongs to the barbars

Interestingly he says the barbars who inhabit Zeila got a country extending from Zeila which je visited till mogadishu meaning the inhabitants of mogadishu and zeila are the same people
Unuka waye

The term Berber itself is ambiguous and we don't know for certain who exactly it refers to all the time.

It's referring to somalis for arabs, proof that it was used for non-somalis in the horn
I would re-think then

Some of the Arab sources after Ibn Battuta called Mogadishu and its environs Bilad al Zanj, are you prepared to say Somalis South of Mogadishu are different from the Somalis North of it?

Bilad al zanj? Would like to see it, you might be referring to bahr al zanj tho
Whatsoever it wouldn't change my original point of somalis being the only barbars

I don't see any reason why Afars couldn't come under the Berber umbrella, They are no different from the Somalis in customs & religion and every description of the Somalis perfectly fits them.

They wouldn't fit under the Barbar=Somali Umberlla as it's not referring to them
They wouldn't have their own name Danakil if they were under Barbar

 

[Haragwaafi]

No it wasn't a coastal town that belong to one ethnic community back then but there was an Canfar settlers there as there was Arab and Turks living in the town.

 

[Haragwaafi]

They are not few. Almost every nomadic Issa sharpens his teeth carries a Golxad... etc. They are indistinguishable from the Afars in custom, dress and their aggressive warrior style, this is something noted by every anthropologists.


View attachment 292272

Ciise and Canfar nomads have the same customs as they both live in the same area.

 

[Haragwaafi]

The few that assimilated into afar culture yes, how am I talking ignorance when that's their culture sxb, u Harti walaal why compare us to afar? Somalis n afar were never the same and will never be the same

With all due respect you're seriously ignorant of the relations we Somalis have and share with Canfars especially Dir clans.

 

[Al Adnani]

I've literally posted a page with a number on it alongside the book that i got it from. Do you really need me to walk you through every step and point out where to find the letter like a child?

I see you've went through the effort of providing all three pages with their translation congratulation little lad but there is still one crucial step missing i'm afraid. Could you be so kind as to point us to where in these three pages dose it say that the ruler of tadjoura is the ruler of zaylac or that he is the governer of zaylac?

Clearly refers to him as king of zeyla/Adel lmao. Any unbiased 3rd party witness to this debate would obviously agree with me but somalispot is a circle jerk of historical revisionists

 

[Garaad diinle]

Clearly refers to him as king of zeyla/Adel lmao. Any unbiased 3rd party witness to this debate would obviously agree with me but somalispot is a circle jerk of historical revisionists

It almost feels like i'm talking to a child. Do you have some difficulties with your reading skills? You said that i had an agenda and proceeded to post three pages with their translations but all you could do is simply pointing out a small portion of a single page? Even then it clearly doesn't support your claim yet here you're looking all happy and proud. I'll say this again you have the whole book please can you be so kind as to point out where it says that mohammed dini the sultan of tadjoura is also the sultan of zaylac or that he is the governor of zaylac?

 

[Al Adnani]

It almost feels like i'm talking to child. Do you have some difficulties with your reading skils? You said that i had an agenda and proceeded to post three pages with their translations but all you could do is simply pointing out a small portion of a single page? Even then it clearly doesn't support your claim yet here you're looking all happy and proud. I'll say this again you have the whole book please can you so kind as to point out where it says that mohammed dini the sultan of tadjoura is also the sultan of zaylac or that he is the governor of zaylac.

LOL @ your pseudo intellectual larp lol don’t grab at straws buddy you asked me to point where in my source it says he’s the king of Zeila and I pointed to it. Now you’re asking for an even clearer indication of his rule don’t kill me bro. If you actually read the other 2 pages you’d realize the source is continuous in suggesting his rule in the city, the last screenshot I provided was just the most explicit mention of his rule out of anywhere else in the source lol. Another indication, since you were asking.

Here it clearly states;
“want to go to the port of Zeila, it is.
is. closer to where you are pre-« slitting. We are people of .. good faith, & we believe in God & in his « prophet; for our profession of faith is such: I testify that there is no « other God but God, and that| Mahomet is his prophet; God gives him his blessing, & the height of a great number of blessings of peace, pleasant, & " K blessings until day of Judgment, And praise to God Lord of the " two lives. You have the fury of "God, and the fury of SULTAN MEHEMED, son of SULTAN DEINY; & the falut faith in you, the mifericord.. of God & his blessings."

Why would they mention the fury of Sultan Muhammad Dini when talking about the city of Zeila if he wasn’t the ruler of the city? Why would they use the title of sultan in reference to him when talking about the city if he wasn’t ruler of the city? Come on bro you’re making it too easy aha

 

[Three Moons]

Ibn Battuta did not go beyond Mogadishu on the Somali coast, he went straight for Mombasa and Kilwa afterwards so most likely would have been ignorant of the Somali cities further south. The fact that he saw the people of the city of Zeila as being the same as those of the city of Mogadishu, is very telling since he was an eye-witness not a scholar thousands of miles of away using old chronicles and hearsay. The fact that the most native group in the territory of modern Somalia are the Somalis, means we are not the ones that have to prove anything, its the other groups that have to provide proof of their presence.

Which is flimsy at best.

 

[Hamzza]

In his actual book he says Zeila is a city of barbars
Never did he refer to it as a region but a city which belongs to the barbars

In the same source you sent the author seems to separate between the "people of Zeyla" and "the inhabitants of the country of Zeyla". The inhabitants of the former are rafida(i.e. Shia) while the people of the latter are Shafi'i.

وصلت الى مدينة زيلع وهي مدينة البرابرة، وهم طائفة من السودان شافعية المذهب، وبلادهم صحراء مسيرة شهرين،
أولها زيلع وآخرها مقدشو. ومواشيهم الجمال، وهي أغنام مشهور السمن، وأهل زيلع سود الألوان، وأكثرهم رافضة، وهي مدينة كبرة لها سوق عظيمة

I arrived at the city of Zeyla; it's a city of the Berbers; a sub-sect of the black race and their country is a desert of two month's journey; the first part is called Zeyla and the last Mogadishu and their livestock is Camels and sheep famous for their fatness. The people of Zeyla are black in color; most of them are Rafida and it is a big city with a huge market.

It's referring to somalis for arabs, proof that it was used for non-somalis in the horn
I would re-think then

How can you be so sure it is referring to Somalis? Does it say Berber is another name for Somalis in those medieval Arab sources?

It's ironic for you to ask for explicit sources when your own understanding and views are built on ambiguity.

Bilad al zanj? Would like to see it, you might be referring to bahr al zanj tho
Whatsoever it wouldn't change my original point of somalis being the only barbars

Both Ibn Majid and Suleyman al Mahri described Mogadishu as the start of the land of Zanj and clearly separated it from Barr Zumāl(not Berber) which surprised me because these authors knew Somalis very well and were the first Arabs to call the Somali country by its name And have described a relatively unknown Somali cities in the north like Ceel Sheekh Caluula etc.

They wouldn't fit under the Barbar=Somali Umberlla as it's not referring to them
They wouldn't have their own name Danakil if they were under Barbar

To this day Afars are called Danakil. Have you ever seen someone calling Somalis Berber?

In my opinion, Berber was a general term and Danaki and others were more local.