Was ogaden ever taken?

[Burqad]

So getting back to my original question? How exactly should I respond to the person who claimed that ethiopia conquered ogaden in 1890. Would like to win the debate, since its like around two people

They conquered Haraghe but not Hawd.

 

[Dal7]

They conquered Haraghe but not Hawd.

I appreciate your response, but what exactly is the difference between them if haraghe is included within hawd reserve. Just would like to clear that confusion up

 

[Burqad]

I appreciate your response, but what exactly is the difference between them if haraghe is included within hawd reserve. Just would like to clear that confusion up

Haraghe is the area marked East and West Haraghe, Sitti and north Fafan. The rest were not conquered but were given by the British

 

[Haragwaafi]

Aside from the Harar sultantate and the Ogaden region, Menelik also took over Hawd & Reserve area. However, since it was part of British Somaliland, they voluntarily ceded the sovereignty of Hawd to Menelik through the Anglo-Ethiopian agreement in 1897 since he assisted them against the resistance of the locals. To my understanding most of the Cisse land was neither part of Harar, Ogaden or Hawd and the Ethiopian also took over their land separately @sultan.ali177

But the British only gave Hawd to Ethiopians in the 54 which angered Isaaq and Gadabursi clans who organized demonstrations in Hargeisa against the British decision as they weren't consulted on it and they saw the treaties they signed with the brits precedes the Anglo Ethiopian one that they weren't party of.

 

[GaradShabeel]

But the British only gave Hawd to Ethiopians in the 54 which angered Isaaq and Gadabursi clans who organized demonstrations in Hargeisa against the British decision as they weren't consulted on it and they saw the treaties they signed with the brits precedes the Anglo Ethiopian one that they weren't party of.

The British had already sign over the sovereignty of Hawd & Reserve Area to Ethiopia prior to 1954. It was in the Anglo-Ethiopian treaty in 1897 (if I recall correctly) when the borders between them were drawn. But they gave some autonomy to the locals and were allowed to maintain ties and movement between Eth-SL without any hinderance.

When the Italians lost their quest of taking over Ethiopia, the UK signed a new agreement in 1941, the Anglo-Ethiopian agreement, whereby they affirmed the recognition of the Ogaden and Hawd and the Dji-Eth railway as Ethiopian, but they would be temporarily controlled by the British.

The event you're referring was when the UK were formally handing over full control of these regions to Ethiopia, when the clans protested this decision and also sent delegations to the UK in a bid to prevent this outcome. Though, sadly at no avail.

I think during the last years, the British wanted to unite the different Somali regions into Somaliweyn. I don't know why they did not end up fulfilling this aspiration.

 

[Haragwaafi]

I think during the last years, the British wanted to unite the different Somali regions into Somaliweyn. I don't know what they did not end up fulfilling this aspiration.

It didn't happen cuz the US and the Soviets' were suspicious of British goals in the horn and also many pro italian groups sprung out in Mogadishu wanting the restoration of Italian rule. Ironically Afweyne was member of such groups one that was called Somali Conference

In 1946, Barre supported the Somali Conference (Italian: Conferenza Somala), a political group of parties and clan associations that were hostile to the Somali Youth League and were supported by the local Italian settlers. The group presented a petition to the "Four Powers" Investigation Commission in order to allow that the administration of the United Nations Trust Territory could be entrusted for thirty years to Italy.

 

[Dal7]

A lot of you need to include sources in your posts I'm not trying to sound like a Teacher but without a source you could just make it up

 

[Dal7]

There's numerous episodes of events that occured in north east africa involving those battles before reaching other hawiye

1. Meneliks war using Shoawan armies attacking bale arussi and sidama between 1882. These wars were on the periphery and we fought alongside their muslim armies that were tied to brotherhoods that went on for decades and centuries including the sudanese revolt, there were Somali Salihiyas like Sheekh Sayid Mohamed of the Karanle that spent time with the Sudanese fighters as did the Isaaq HY Sultan Nuur Amaan but the Egyptian presence that grew exponentially blocked a greater regional war by curbing Christian expansion until Colonial powers came to the horizon. Similarly Sh Uweeys al Baraawi spread his ideology to South Eastern Africa that was called Uwaysiyya that challenged German East Africa.

2. After the Egyptians left their Ottoman possessions in the Somali peninsula, Menelik warred capturing harar in the chelenqo war of 1887. Massacring and deporting ancient somali dwellers of the city including sheekhaal, gugundhabe and karanles. This was the fight that involved Sheekh Maxamed Khaliif an Abgaal and he was executed on his sword outside his mosque the biggest of the city and became known as Khaliif Caanabaxay for his blood produced Milk. He was a Wali Allah and loved by the people. His descendants live in Babili. This was when Karanles in Babile were on vigilant alert while many moved to safer pastures behind the mountains, Menelik was not looking to expand initially and tried negotiating with Britain, Italy and France for weapons, recognition and support. Menelik put Ras Makonnen in charge of Harar whose son is future emperor Haile Selassie.

2. By 1895 he controlled the harar routes to assab, obock, zeila and he created an outpost at Jigjiga, and once Britain/Italy/France were consolidating their borders, Menelik knew they would start creating his borders too so he expanding via the Jarar river and Ter river to the south starting at Imey and Dhagaxbuur. This was when Garad Omar of the Gidir and Ugaas Mahad of Sixawle the great grandfather of the current Sixawle Ugaas fought heavily at Harmaale.

3. Thes wars continued, the jiidle and jajeele in the poem were fighting in mayumaluqu, the dagoodi fought the Amhara many times in Negeyle area, but this time the Amhara co-opted Boranas against the Somalis. Olol Diinle's father was captured by the Ethiopians in Baareey.

4. By 1900 they reached the outskirts of luuq, beledweyne and wardheer. This was the Amharas last push into Somalia that had a string of defeats most famously the Gumar sheel defeat.

5. Menelik started drawing back but continued isolated raids especially disrupting the luuq area that had an italian flag since 1895. Until 1908 Menelik would switch between making deals with the Mad Mullah and raiding other clans to divide Somalis.

6. Once Lij Yasu took over, the emperor improved relations between all groups and Axis rivals Turkey and Germany to the extent he was deemed a threat by the Ethiopian nobility and eventually deposed in a military coup by folks close to Haile Selassie. This was when they struck his positions in Harar that Karanle chiefs and other Hawiyes scorth earthed Harar during the start of the first WW.

7. After the end of WW Italy became powerful and built an impressive army that would finally topple the independent kingdom of Ethiopia and they used Olol Dinle to capture Addis Ababa and Harar, the Italians call him the first Somali since Gurey to capture Ethiopian capitals.

8. Successive Somali governments since 1960 supported Eritrea, Bale and rebel fronts to fight the Ethiopians with two major wars 1964 and 1977. The first gold medalists of that war were reer ceelbuur, Xalane, Doonyale and Cilmi Nuur. 1 duduble, 1 hg and 1 murusade. Cilmi nuur won a second medal in 1977.

good information but I'm not willing to concede to his arguement, is there any other piece of information? Did Somali's Occupy Ethiopia before this at all?