Odious Delirium
VIP
I'm confused now where exactly are you taking this what is your point? that mac Donald is halal?
Wallahi, this is too accurate!
- Thread starter Shimbiris
- Start date
Zina leads to abortion and heartbreak. Also who are you to compare Quran to your opinion!
Awad
عادل | جامعة الدفاع العربي
Laagite
الداروودي
Salaf al saalix > khawarij and munafiqs
it was mainly due to lack of knowledge. Information wasn’t readily available for nomadic groups who lived traditional lives. That is also the case of old Somali Bedouins who weren’t the most knowledgeable and would do things that were blatantly haram. A lot of their Islamic knowledge would come from wandering Sheikhs and they might not have had Islamically educated people around them for months on end.
Reformed J
VIP
Sxb still gonna act like you weren't pulling the Christian bismillah stuff out of your ass eh
Xoxoxo
VIP
Jeez,
Well I personally can say that I pray 5 times a day, fast during Ramadan, and pay zakat.
i do have left leaning ideals like:
- Giving people equal chances at life,
- Helping the poor & building infrastructure & health through taxes,
- Minding my own business and not insulting those who are different to me.
i do have conservative ideals (yea, me, I know lol) but I am more of a centre/left person.
there are certain things I don’t follow, but I never justified it and change the religion to fit my ideals, I follow the most important things and just hope Allah leads me to the correct path & forgiveness, because at the end of the day I can’t do more then that !
Well I personally can say that I pray 5 times a day, fast during Ramadan, and pay zakat.
i do have left leaning ideals like:
- Giving people equal chances at life,
- Helping the poor & building infrastructure & health through taxes,
- Minding my own business and not insulting those who are different to me.
i do have conservative ideals (yea, me, I know lol) but I am more of a centre/left person.
there are certain things I don’t follow, but I never justified it and change the religion to fit my ideals, I follow the most important things and just hope Allah leads me to the correct path & forgiveness, because at the end of the day I can’t do more then that !
I struggle with this a bit, walaashay. I know of your own familial experience and have heard similar stories of not practicing Islam properly being due to ignorance and I see that point and agree with it. But I've also read a lot on 19th and early 20th century rural Somalis and it definitely seems like many of them got an education on the deen by wandering Wadaads. A lot of times they, contrary to popular belief, even knew how to read the Qur'an and were taught with these wooden boards by those same Wadaado:
Yeah, I honestly even question how "illiterate" Somali nomads historically were because in both the north and the south going back to the 1800s you read about kids being taught the Qur'an by wandering Wadaads and using these traditional wooden boards to read it and write it:
This is from the 1800s in Koonfur:
The thing is, another thing to take into account is that Islam did not come to Somalis through conquest. It came via trade and proselytizing. Some internal jihads seem to have occurred but otherwise the deen came peacefully. This means a lot of the previous culture before Islam was preserved and a lot of compromises were clearly reached. You see the same thing in Indonesia where many pre-Islamic elements survived until very recently and intertwined with normal Islamic practice. The guys spreading Islam to Somalis probably understood that aggressively telling these people to let go of all their pre-Islamic traditions was not in their best interest and just ignored a lot of stuff as "just their way".
The story of Sheikh Darood itself is a very interesting one in that it is clearly a Waqist story yet he is touted as a historical spreader of Islam:
Walaashay, calm down. There is no evidence that it originated with Somalis or with any one particular group of East Cushites. All we know is that it seemingly was the pre-Islamic faith of many or even most East Cushites and I think possibly also South Cushites to some extent. In fact, I remember reading that there was evidence of the word "Waaq" itself being a very, very early loan from Nilo-Saharan back when our ancestors still lived in Sudan over 5,000 years ago:
So this religion is very old among Cushites in general and some of its roots may go back to the Proto-Cushites. Somalis have no real unique claim to it. Many traditions from Waaqism also still remained within Muslim Somali and Afar culture until just recently, for the record. Customs like trial by fire, a belief in sacred trees and congregating around them and belief in semi dieties like "Huur" and "Nidaar" as well as Somalis' inclination toward Sufism and the belief in saints is very similar to the "Qallu" concept in Waaqism where a priest is considered something of a very special person inhabited by good spirits (Ayaanle in Somali/Ayanas in Oromo) who's curses were to be feared and blessings were to come true:
Culture and Customs of Somalia
Somalia, the Horn of Africa nation, is finally recovering from recent wars and famine. Written by a native Somali, Culture and Customs of Somalia gives students and interested readers an in-depth look at the land and people, past and present. It is the only accessible, comprehensive, and...books.google.ae
What's fascinating is that some of these customs and beliefs even entered the qabiil origin stories. Sheikh Darood's story is a very prime example. In the original story, from what I recall, he appears at the top of a great tree and asks the local people to bring him a woman among them to wed so that he may descend and guide them. This is flat-out a Waqist story that repeats itself across the Horn among Afars and Oromos as well:
Belief in the Sky-God may relate to the myth of the man who was sitting in a tree (perhaps a sacred tree, even an olive). This is a common myth of origin told by Cushitic people of the Horn, particularly the Oromo, Afar, Saho and Somali (Luling 1988). According to this myth, a little girl discovered a stranger from the sky, a man, sitting on a tree, who would only agree to come down when he was promised that he could marry the local girl who found him. He was allowed to marry her, and the people emerged from their union. Versions of this myth are widespread in the Horn. It seems to indicate a potential link between the notion of trees and ancestral figures, as also exemplified by Konso waga sculptures. As an example, the wagar is, as noted earlier, carved from the wood of a sacred tree. The sycamore tree is, similarly, venerated by Cushitic peoples (Burton 1966; Trimingham 1965, p. 260; cf. Hallpike 1972). More broadly, it can be said that the worship of trees is extremely important within many Cushitic-speaking societies of the Horn even today, including the Konso and Oromo. Thus, the worship of trees and its potential link with the wagar are relevant to discussions of Sky-God belief. The potential link is the sacred fertility that the wagar is considered to provide. An investigation of the relationship between the idea of sacred trees, the myth of a man in a tree, and the wagar may suggest something of the deeper nature of Waaq. - Wagar, Fertility and Phallic Stelae: Cushitic Sky-God Belief and the Site of Saint Aw-Barkhadle, Somaliland, by Sada Mire
A little hilarious to think that people like Sheikh Darood, who are commonly associated with the Islamization of Somalis, have pre-Islamic elements woven into their stories. Shows you how syncretic the adoption of Islam was among Somalis.
But anyway, it is every bit their religion as it was ours once upon a time.
The nature of Islam spreading to our culture was very syncretic but I do see your point and agree that a lot of things probably happened due to not even knowing it was xaram or possibly even the Sheikhs deliberately avoiding telling them this or that was xaram so as to avoid arguments and buuq, lol.
Nevertheless, one thing I found interesting is that at least one of these Arabian tribes with unconventional eating habits seemed to know what they were doing was wrong:
Near Eastern Tribal Societies During the Nineteenth Century, Economy, Society and Politics Between Tent and Town - Google Play
This volume provides an in-depth study of tribal life in the Near East in the 19th century, exploring how tribes shaped society, economy and politics in the desert, as well as in villages and towns. Until the First World War Near Eastern society was tribally organized. Particularly in the Levant...
play.google.com
The ones who eat wild donkey meat. Feels like they knew the nabi (SAW) forbade it based on the fact that they avoid eating it before strangers.
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Odious Delirium
VIP
No if you want that hadeeth then I can look for it and i didn’t explicitly say that either I said what I said which was ritual sacrifice is necessary. I don't know how Christians do it but I do know they barely or no longer do it especially in the West. You even brought up the example of the Ethiopians doing it on special occasions. I also said the prophet never ate from any Christians although they lived around him but all these deviates from the original point which is if macdonald is halal or not and its not and it isn't even either Christians which your whole point hinges on.Sxb still gonna act like you weren't pulling the Christian bismillah stuff out of your ass eh
Be careful brother, one source of doubt will also make you doubt other things in the religion. Don't let your intellect lead you astray, thinking that you know better. The Jews also thought they knew better and so the covenant was taken from them and given to us instead.
Odious Delirium
VIP
As for your quran verse this verse futher elaborate and is why I said they need to invoke Allah. I miss took it for a hadeeth (I don't know how they do it and I think it's irrelevant since I'm not going to find myself in such a situation and If I do it would be under conditions where I have nothing else to eat in which case it would be allowed regardless)Sxb still gonna act like you weren't pulling the Christian bismillah stuff out of your ass eh
"He has forbidden to you only carrion, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that over which any name other than Allah's has been invoked; but if one is driven by necessity - neither coveting it nor exceeding his immediate need -no sin shall be upon him: for, behold, God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace."(Quran 2:173)
Odious Delirium
VIP
Keep in mind @Reformed J that blood here refers to an animal that hasn't received the proper manner of ritual slaughter which require draining the blood of the animal from the throat of the animal after sliting 3 particular veins in the neck. Westerners simply don't do that. All there meat contains blood it's all haram from multiple directions not just from possible contamination by pork and most of there meat is carrion since it gets killed in inhumane ways eg being crushed, electrocuted etc. Some thing generally is considered carrion when it for example dies a death other than being hunted. Eg dying a natural death, dying to fall damage, dying to blunt damage eg rocks falling on your head etc. There is a lot of fiqh behind all this and I can't do it justice here neither do I have the patience to do this over the net with someone who seems disingenuous In there approach. I only go into detail and do source material research on people's behalf if they come to me in person with these things because then I can convey what I'm trying to say in a better manner and the discussion is more fruitful.
On somalispot people just go round and round in autistic circles which I simply don't have the patience for so this will be my last message to you on this topic you can do with it what you want. Eat mac Donald's if you want I have done my part in warning you. Now it up to you if you will acknowledge that it's haram or not. I'm not going to present anymore stuff on this topic (although there is a lot more) because I think this is enough already.
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Reformed J
VIP
Yes sxb, I've asked for your hadith many times.
That's fine but you have to realize that's a personal preference, you can't make haram or makhrooh things Allah has made halal.
Sxb our convo is about whether Christians need to perform ritual slaughter before the meat can become halal for muslim. The vast majority of Christians don't practice ritual slaughter (no name is invoked), and we're examining whether Christians at the time of rasulallah practiced ritual slaughter. So far there hasn't been much evidence to suggest they did (as you claimed). Why would your bolded segment apply when the name is omitted all together?
Reformed J
VIP
Let's end the convo here. You mad a lot of unsubstantiated claims about historical practices that you've yet to bring evidence for.
