The Transformative Effects of Dhikr
- Thread starter MuMaMe
- Start date
Molotoff
VIP
It definitely is for us and the dark sixk hearts around ua.
I agree bro suprisingly bro I was reading from Hisn-ul Muslim yesterday mashallah
This thread was disappointing to me. I thought this was going to be a wholesome, innocent thread on the benefits of dhikr.
However, I think an agenda is being pushed to promote bid'ah.
from the video description:
"In this talk, Dr. Samer Dajani, translator of Shaykh Salih al-Ja'fari's Reassurance for the Seeker, uses seven Hadith from the book, as well as a priceless passage from another of Shaykh Salih's books as the basis for his talk on how dhikr transforms the soul, effects the heart, and brings one closer to Allah (ta'ala). The talk also discusses the benefits of congregational dhikr and how the Companions of the Messenger of Allah – may Allah exalt him and send him peace – made their own additions to the dhikr formulas that the Messenger taught them in order to express their own feelings and their own unique relationship with Allah ta'ala."
So
1- We should do "congregational dhikr"...... allegedly
2- We should make up our own forms of dhikr... allegedly
(also the author who the speaker is a translator of is apparently a Sufi)
I think 1 is definitely bid'ah. I think 2 is definitely bid'ah.
Sheikh Assim Al-Hakeem has said 1 is bid'ah:
"I’ve always been under the impression that congregational dhikr is an innovation – bid’ah – and that we should avoid it, even though many US masajid do it"
"The innovated congregational Thikr is the one that is done together and on one voice and the same words as in the case after prayers.
The hadeeths you mentioned are about any circle of knowledge that people gather and listen in it to a scholar or a student of knowledge giving a lecture. Therefore, there is no comparison between what the innovators are doing and what the hadeeth is about.
Our argument with them is: have you seen the Prophet salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam or his companions ever doing what you are doing after every prayer? If not, then this means that you know more than him and his companions."
https://www.assimalhakeem.net/ive-a...d-avoid-it-even-though-many-us-masajid-do-it/
IslamQA calls it an innovation: "This competition does not come under the heading of communal dhikr which is an innovation, because that is recited in unison, which is not the case here."
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/117...iful-names-of-allaah-among-members-of-a-forum
here's also a really good article on how 1 is bid'ah
https://abdurrahman.org/2014/10/08/the-ruling-of-making-dhikr-collectively-in-unison/
as for 2..... I don't know of any articles specifically about just making up dhikr........ whether we can just make up our own dhikr to express ourselves as being special crayons.....
however, it seems pretty blatantly like bid'ah to me
dhikr is wonderful and we should be doing dhikr....
Hisn-ul Muslim is an excellent book and the imam at my masjid actually said something like every Muslim or every Muslim household should own that book.....
however....
it is not okay to promote bid'ah!
However, I think an agenda is being pushed to promote bid'ah.
from the video description:
"In this talk, Dr. Samer Dajani, translator of Shaykh Salih al-Ja'fari's Reassurance for the Seeker, uses seven Hadith from the book, as well as a priceless passage from another of Shaykh Salih's books as the basis for his talk on how dhikr transforms the soul, effects the heart, and brings one closer to Allah (ta'ala). The talk also discusses the benefits of congregational dhikr and how the Companions of the Messenger of Allah – may Allah exalt him and send him peace – made their own additions to the dhikr formulas that the Messenger taught them in order to express their own feelings and their own unique relationship with Allah ta'ala."
So
1- We should do "congregational dhikr"...... allegedly
2- We should make up our own forms of dhikr... allegedly
(also the author who the speaker is a translator of is apparently a Sufi)
I think 1 is definitely bid'ah. I think 2 is definitely bid'ah.
Sheikh Assim Al-Hakeem has said 1 is bid'ah:
"I’ve always been under the impression that congregational dhikr is an innovation – bid’ah – and that we should avoid it, even though many US masajid do it"
"The innovated congregational Thikr is the one that is done together and on one voice and the same words as in the case after prayers.
The hadeeths you mentioned are about any circle of knowledge that people gather and listen in it to a scholar or a student of knowledge giving a lecture. Therefore, there is no comparison between what the innovators are doing and what the hadeeth is about.
Our argument with them is: have you seen the Prophet salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam or his companions ever doing what you are doing after every prayer? If not, then this means that you know more than him and his companions."
https://www.assimalhakeem.net/ive-a...d-avoid-it-even-though-many-us-masajid-do-it/
IslamQA calls it an innovation: "This competition does not come under the heading of communal dhikr which is an innovation, because that is recited in unison, which is not the case here."
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/117...iful-names-of-allaah-among-members-of-a-forum
here's also a really good article on how 1 is bid'ah
https://abdurrahman.org/2014/10/08/the-ruling-of-making-dhikr-collectively-in-unison/
as for 2..... I don't know of any articles specifically about just making up dhikr........ whether we can just make up our own dhikr to express ourselves as being special crayons.....
however, it seems pretty blatantly like bid'ah to me
dhikr is wonderful and we should be doing dhikr....
Hisn-ul Muslim is an excellent book and the imam at my masjid actually said something like every Muslim or every Muslim household should own that book.....
however....
it is not okay to promote bid'ah!
First, Assem al Hakeem is not in the same stratosphere as Salih al Ja'fari scholatically. One is a self-admitted "Student of knowlege" that gives strange opinions on social media. The other is one of the most famous scholars of the 20th century in the most famous Islamic institution in the 20th century.
Secondly, if it were not for the fact that suspicion is haram, I would be convinced that you and @Lum are aliases of the europhile @AussieHustler.
Thirdly - if the second is not the case - we ask Allah to rectify your poor understanding of the deen and to steer you away from accusations and slander of righteous people that will destroy in this life if you continue upon it.
In your head, you have thousands of hours of music that you cannot get out of your ahead in addition to the shaytan that accompanies you every day.
If and When Allah shows you mercy and allows you to experience the benefits of Dhikr, I hope the first thing you do is apologize to your family followed by deleting your post.
I don't think calling a bid'ah a bid'ah will destroy me nor is indicative of poor understanding. You just don't want the bid'ah to be called a bid'ah.
Jazakallah khair.
We ask Allah to guide them to the practiceof Ibn Taimiya which was to sit down after fajr and recite surah al fatiha repeatedly until the sun came up.
I wonder where the shaykh ul islam learned this "bidah" from.
It dawned on me that if the early Muslims had the ideology of these neo salafis, the deen would have never made it past the arabian peninsula. But Alhamdulillahi rabbil alameen Allah saved the idiotic ppl for a time when islam is established.
A man comes to a man, sees him reciting the name of Allah (call upon Allah or Ar Rahmam). He calla him an innovator. The man is either a deliberate agent of shaytan or an ignorant facilitator of shaytan. Yet, those are the proudest today.
The example of those who were entrusted with ˹observing˺ the Torah but failed to do so, is that of a donkey carrying books. How evil is the example of those who reject Allah’s signs! For Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people.
-Sura Al-Jumu'ah, Ayah 5
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/237...h-worse-and-more-serious-than-every-major-sin
"To sum up, all innovations are misguidance and the innovator is given a warning of Hell; small innovations may lead to greater innovations. This is in general terms...
By the same token, anyone who is possessed of reason and religious commitment will know that major sins, such as adultery, theft and the like, are worse than many innovations that are connected to practices, such as celebrating the Mawlid, communal dhikr, and the like."
Communal dhikr is mentioned next to Mawlid. As I've said before, it's a bid'ah.
This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.
-Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:3
Islam is already perfect and complete, we don't need to add bid'ah to it.
"To sum up, all innovations are misguidance and the innovator is given a warning of Hell; small innovations may lead to greater innovations. This is in general terms...
By the same token, anyone who is possessed of reason and religious commitment will know that major sins, such as adultery, theft and the like, are worse than many innovations that are connected to practices, such as celebrating the Mawlid, communal dhikr, and the like."
Communal dhikr is mentioned next to Mawlid. As I've said before, it's a bid'ah.
This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.
-Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:3
Islam is already perfect and complete, we don't need to add bid'ah to it.
Is someone paying you a salary?
If you're not being paid a salary
What is the textual evidence for the dua al khatam recited in the masjid al haram at the completion of the Quran?
What is the textual evidence of gathering to read kitab al tawhid specifically every friday night after maghrib?
What is the textual evidence of appointing a mufti based on a kingdom?
What is the textual evidence for a "grand mufti"?
What is the textual evidence for wearing the same exact gsrment when delivering lectures when the prophet wore different types of garments?
Brother, your ignorance is as great as your zeal if you are being sincere and are not an agent. I recommend that you perform 10000 istighfar and 10000 la ilahha ilallah to clear your heart of the hatred bred by extreme salafiyya
Ibn Taymiyyah also never deemed mawlid as bid'ah they hide these facts from their ignorant followers loool.
No. Maybe I could get money from Western Intelligence Agencies for promoting Sufism. White people love Sufism. Oprah Winfrey promotes Sufism.
"Government Promotion of Sufism
In recent years, some European governments have sought to promote Sufism as a culturally authentic counterweight to more politicized Islamist movements, such as the Muslim Brotherhood. Sufism’s emphasis on personal spirituality fits neatly with secular European notions that religion should be reserved for private life rather than for the public square."
https://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/15/muslim-networks-and-movements-in-western-europe-sufi-orders/
Modi loves Sufism- "Prime Minister Modi was effusive in his praise, crediting Sufism with being Islam's greatest gift,"
https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/...modi-world-sufi-forum-islam-828669-2016-03-23
"“[Sufi] victimization by Salafis and Wahhabis, [render] traditionalists and Sufis natural allies of the West” (RAND 2007)."
https://www.fpri.org/article/2016/12/flawed-hope-sufi-promotion-north-africa/
The RAND corporation endorsed promoting Sufis and considered them "natural allies of the West".
The West loves Sufism. They would love for all the Muslims to turn into hippies (which by the way was a movement backed by intelligence agencies, as documented by David McGowan in "Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon").
"Barelwi actors emphasized publicly their identity as “good” Sufi Muslims, in contrast to the Salafi or Wahhabi trend which was increasingly becoming synonymous with the “bad” Islam to be combated worldwide."
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/orde...the-promotion-of-sufism-in-the-war-on-terror/
It's clear- for the West, the Sufis are "the good Muslims". The Salafis are seen as "the bad Muslims"- "fundamentalists," "Islamists". White people look at the Salafis and their attitude is "why can't you be like the Sufis?". They love the Sufis.
Ah okay, so now y'all are defending Mawlid I see.
It's pretty common knowledge that Mawlid is an innovation. I shouldn't even have to point that out.
Also, Ibn Taymiyyah said that Mawlid is bid'ah.
"Below is a translation of the words of Ibn Taymiyyah followed by points of benefit from his speech.
He said in his book: ‘Iqtidhaa as-Siraat al-Mustaqeem’ under the Chapter: ‘Innovated Festival Periods – Taking the birthday of the Prophet (sal Allaahu alayhi wa sallam) as an ‘Eid emulating the Christians in the Eid of the birthday of ‘Eesa (alayhi salaam)’:-
((What some of the people have innovated, either emulating the Christians in the birthday of ‘Eesa (alayhi salaam) or out of love for the Prophet (sal Allaahu alayhi wa sallam) and honouring him. Perhaps Allaah might reward them for this love and their striving to come to a decision, but not for the Bid’ah (innovation) of taking the day of the birth of the Prophet (sal Allaahu alayhi wa sallam) as an ‘Eid. Along with the difference between the people with regards to his birth, this (celebration) was not done by the early generations of pious scholars even though factors that would have necessitating [the Mawlid] were present and there was a lack of any factors that would prevent them from doing so if it had indeed been good.
If this [the Mawlid] was genuinely good or the correct opinion then the pious scholars of the early generations (may Allaah be pleased with them) would have been more entitled to it than us. They had greater love for the Prophet (sal Allaahu alayhi wa sallam) and were more honouring of him than us; they were more eager upon goodness."
https://www.madeenah.com/ibn-taymiyyah-mawlid/
Honestly, I would like to like to do a test.
If I google "New York Times" "Salafis"
(with the quotes)
what pops up?
and "New York Times" "Sufism"
what pops up?
Which does the New York Times prefer? Do they want the "softer, gentler" "mystical Islam"?
Or do they want us to get back to the pious predecessors? I haven't done the test yet so let's see insha'Allah.
Wallahi I wrote everything above before doing the Google search......
this is the first result from searching (with the quotes) "New York Times" "Salafis"
Don't Fear All Islamists, Fear Salafis - The New York Times
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/20/...BA433D458B8478A6B3&gwt=pay&assetType=REGIWALL
I can't read the article (no subscription) but the title makes it seem pretty clear what the New York Times stance is.
I haven't googled "New York Times" "sufism"..... let's see what pops up insha'Allah
"Who Are Sufi Muslims and Why Do Some Extremists Hate Them?"
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/24/world/middleeast/sufi-muslim-explainer.html
That's the first result.
If I google "New York Times" "Salafis"
(with the quotes)
what pops up?
and "New York Times" "Sufism"
what pops up?
Which does the New York Times prefer? Do they want the "softer, gentler" "mystical Islam"?
Or do they want us to get back to the pious predecessors? I haven't done the test yet so let's see insha'Allah.
Wallahi I wrote everything above before doing the Google search......
this is the first result from searching (with the quotes) "New York Times" "Salafis"
Don't Fear All Islamists, Fear Salafis - The New York Times
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/20/...BA433D458B8478A6B3&gwt=pay&assetType=REGIWALL
I can't read the article (no subscription) but the title makes it seem pretty clear what the New York Times stance is.
I haven't googled "New York Times" "sufism"..... let's see what pops up insha'Allah
"Who Are Sufi Muslims and Why Do Some Extremists Hate Them?"
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/24/world/middleeast/sufi-muslim-explainer.html
That's the first result.
Why did you leave out this part of the book In your Madkhali Wahabi Site @Omar del Sur ??
فتعظيم المولد ، واتخاذه موسمًا ، قد يفعله بعض الناس ، ويكون له فيه أجر عظيم لحسن قصده ، وتعظيمه لرسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ، كما قدمته لك أنه يحسن من بعض الناس … ولهذا قيل للإمام أحمد عن بعض الأمراء : إنه أنفق على مصحف ألف دينار ، أو نحو ذلك فقال : دعهم ، فهذا أفضل ما أنفقوا فيه الذهب ، أو كما قال . مع أن مذهبه أن زخرفة المصاحف مكروهة . … إنما قصده أن هذا العمل فيه مصلحة ، وفيه أيضًا مفسدة كره لأجلها . فهؤلاء إن لم يفعلوا هذا ، وإلا اعتاضوا بفساد لا صلاح فيه ، مثل أن ينفقها في كتاب من كتب الفجور
“So to magnify the birthday of the Prophet (saas) and to take it as a seasonal celebration, as some people might do and it might be that they are rewarded greatly for their good intentions and for their exalting of the Messenger of Allah (saas), for as I have previously mentioned that some among them do so in a good way … and in this regards it has been reported that Imam Ahmad once said about one of the Muslim rulers that had reportedly spent one thousand dinaars or so for a (decorated) copy of the Qur’an, “Leave him be, for that is the best thing which gold can be spent upon”. But it is well known that the math-hab of Imam Ahmad looks upon the decoration of the Qur’an as something disliked (makruh). Yet what the Imam meant by his statement was that this act had some goodness in it and also some defect that we dislike. For if they were prevented from doing this act it may be that they will then turn to another deed which has no goodness in it whatsoever but is instead evil in its entirety like buying immoral books and so forth …”
@MuMaMe you see the deception
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