At this point you’re trolling if you think at Maya is even to than Af Maxa Tiri than Booraan. Baiso is closer to Af Maxa Tiri than Oromo and they remember their Somali origin
The point still stands, even if some ethnic groups mixed or claim different groups: Oromo language can’t have been in Somalia or northern Kenya for more than 400-500 years simply due to how similar Oromo languages are to each other and the fact there is zero Oromo substratum in Af Maay. The fact that isolated groups in southern Ethiopia and Rendille in Kenya speak dialects closer to Somali and remember a shared past with Somalis kills your argument. If Rendille did not escape Oromo invasion/migration you would be claiming they are lost Oromos.complete bs. The Gabbra Migo (who schlee mentions) have some elements of Garre within them but the Majority Gabra and the Male do not. You can attempt to make an argument out of Garre's being Somali but no way with Gabra how can you say these people are somali when they are under the Gada systemtry again next time my freind.
I am not trying to take their Somalinimo from them, they themselves know they are closer to Oromo origin and have been trying to join Oromia.
''Addis Admass, a weekly News Paper, www.Addisadmas.com, accessed on 23.o5.2009. According to interview with an official from the Constitutional and Regional Affairs, four groups were waiting for recognition in 2008. These were, (1) the Wolene (known as one of the Gurage clans) demanded separation from the Gurage; (2) the Manjo (a cast group among the Shakicho) demanded separation from Shakicho; the Dube (a group who claim a Bantu origin among the Somali ) requested to be separated from the Somali, and (4) the Darawa demanded a change from the Somali to the Oromo''. (Interview on 04.01.2008, Addis Ababa) kkkkkk.
Schlees work has been challenged by other scholars who have made a stronger argument on these people identity, anywho it is politics they are doing this for their benefit the Gabra still have Lubas/Qallu/Gada this is enough to prove there oromuma.
You are absolutely right. A predecessor group would leave some kind of linguistic mark on a region if they lived there for hundreds of years. There is also the fact that no Somali clans in that area share Oromo haplogroups or autosomal DNA (no Omotic admixture).
Exactly. They don’t border Somalis yet they a speak a dialect closer to Somalis and they remember a shared past with Somalis. Essentially, this means Oromo intruded and separated the Somalis from their linguistic kin. If Oromos ruled over Rahanweyn we would see an Oromo substratum. You’re just arguing using some outdated colonial anthropology.
Akhi, I don’t believe in snitching and I do encourage free debate. You are right though about this being a futile exercise. Anyone arguing raxanweyn aren’t a proper group or not close to Somalis is just spreading outdated propaganda. Have a good day, gents.
Free speech has limits. He has been babbling nonsense for pages now and derailed the topic.
Barbar= Somalis
Af Maay is lowland east Cushitic same as Afaan Borona/Garre
what your saying disagrees with the source I just provided above this is just your opinion and goes opposite to what the inscription mentions.
you tried to come here saying that Ethiopia was a term that was first used in the 19th century you excluded a large part of Barbaria and now you want to apply the name of Barbaria to just northern Somalia this goes against the source.
No one is claiming southern Egypt. For the last time the Barbaria I am talking about is solely Somalia which was called the "other Barbaria" according to sources. No one except Somalis lived in ancient Somalia.
Ethiopian was a catch all term to refer to any dark skinned populations, it did not specifically refer to modern day Ethiopia until the 19th/20th century. Prior to that Ethiopia was always called Aksum, Abysinnia and Habesha.
Af Maay belongs to the Somaloid branch, it has no relation to Oromo.
Your source is nonsense. Azania did not start with Opone which is literally located in modern Puntland. The only part of Somalia that may have been apart of Azania is the very southern parts of Somalia.
You have incredibly poor reading comprehension. I never said Ethiopia was a term first used in the 19th century, I said Ethiopia was primarily known by other names. And I never claimed the entire Barbaria region was Somali either, only Somalia aka other Barbaria.
you tried claiming before the term Barbar was used only for Somalis and now you were wrong Barbar was a term used for the people south of Egypt ruled by their own chieftains then there was the united Aksumite kingdom which stretched to Adulis and beyond that was also the land of the Barbaria. Barbaria were not just Somalis.
Herodotus Map shows us the people south of Meroe were Ethiopians (Eritrea/Ethiopia).
There is some simalarities but the languages that resemble oromo the most are Afan Garre, and Jiddu.
your arguing with the periplus.
This again is your own assumption.
By the middle ages it was. I never said the Sudanese Barbaria was Somali.
Because they had dark skin, yes. They were otherwise referred to as Askumites or Abysinnians later on.
No they don't, I already provided you texts from linguists that show af maay being a a dialect of Somali. You have brought zero proof that its close to Oromo.
The periplus is not the only source, the definition of Azania varies but that is irrelevant in any case.
Those cities were literally in Somalia. If they were populated by non-Somalis then give me evidence for it.
you just said Barbars were Somali and pushed a argument that the Barbars were somali as a whole why else would I mentioned Barbars living in Egypt.
your agreeing with me now but you were disagreeing with me before.
Af Maay has many similarities with Afaan oromo so does Af Somali.
Bro your arguing with the periplus here not me
how are you going to tell Author this, they are first hand primary sources .And my freind you cannot give me evidence aswell, were left to assumptions and use logic for these ideas for an example I.M Lewis/Cerulli use local accounts, the place names ,and the tombs of these people.
I am not saying it is closer to oromo you are putting words in my mouth I said it resembles Afaan Garre and Borona, it undeniably does.
Rahweyn= esbaheys.
here you limit Barbaria to only being Somalia.
I personally have not heard their language firsthand, but i do know they have been influenced by Guji and even share some clan names.
Because they were, that doesn't mean I think everything from Sudan to Eritrea was Somali, that is called a bad faith argument.
My point is that Ethiopians were known by a different name back then compared to now. There are other examples too such as Romanians being called Vlachs back then
No it doesn't, you are delusional.
The periplus doesn't affect my argument whatsoever. It states southern Somalia had city states like northern Somalia did, in otherwords Somalis were living there since antiquity
Its called occam's razor idiot. Who else besides Somalis were living there? There is a reason why Proto-Somali is used because that is what best describes the people living there.
Nope, it doesn't. Cope harder.
This is what I mean by bad faith arguments. That post was in the context of what Arabs were calling Somalia hence "Al-Barbaria. That literally could only refer to Somalia since the eastenr Horn was called Al-Barbaria
At the end of the day sxb you cannot argue with the periplus. Barbaria was a land which stretched from Southern Egypt to Opone, and was interrupted by the Kingdom of Aksum Around Adulis and continued to Opone it was a land not a people, the people of this land were known as Barbarians, you cannot come to conclude that they were Somali.
According to Herodotus map the people south of Meroe were Ethiopians and if you look at it geographically it was Eritrea and Ethiopia.
Af Oromo and Somali share 40-60 percent similarity depending on the region.
It differiantes Azania, and Barbaria you have ultimately confused the two.
Arabs also called the area which the Greeks identified as Barbar, Barbar.
