The ruined stone towns of medieval Somaliland and the empire of Adal (ca. 1415–1577)

[NidarNidar]

Plenty of medieval Arabic writers and travelers like Ibn Idiris, Ibn Said, Ibn Battuta ect all very clearly talk about Somalis living in Jubaland/southern Somalia. Furthermore, that entire region was considered apart of Al-Barbaria aka Somalia. Then there are all the ruins and architecture left behind of Somali origin.


That isn't Oromo. "Gaal" is an archaic Somali word for Camel and has no relation to the word Galla which was only used by Habeshas. Many Somali clan names and places use the word Gaal in it so it is of clear Somali origin.

No it is only an Oromo tradition. Somali oral traditions say nothing about Oromos ruling over or dominating southern Somalia, there is no coroboration of that.

No point arguing with him, I'll refrain from saying anything ill of him, not sure why he is even here, his like those revision hoteps who claim AE history, instead of looking at their own.

In psychology, this is called social identity theory, people derive a sense of pride and belonging from the groups they are part of (e.g., ethnicity, nationality, religion). When two groups, like the Oromo and Somali, are in close contact or competition over resources or power, there can be a psychological tendency to either strengthen one’s own group identity or attempt to diminish the status of the other group. This can lead to misappropriation of cultural history or symbols to either assert dominance or claim a shared history that strengthens group cohesion.

Notice we never claim anything from them, while we reject those of unknown paternal heritage, they accept it willingly.

History is used as a tool of power and legitimacy. In situations where historical narratives are contested (especially in post-colonial contexts), groups may seek to rewrite or reinterpret history to serve their own political or social purposes. This can sometimes manifest as claiming aspects of another group's cultural or historical identity, either to align with a dominant narrative or to weaken a competing narrative.

 

[Idilinaa]

sxb there are many errors in this text the source you have used even states the follow

''Those Galla who moved south were thought in their turn to have dislodged Bantu-speaking peoples from the Webi Shebelle area and then at a later date to have defeated the various Bantu-speaking groups in the state of Shungwaya, pushing them south from the Juba to
below the Tana and Sabaki rivers''. he promotes an idea of bantu living in this area before oromo and then rejects it ? very confusing he then goes on to claim that the Tunni

He is summarizing a previously held view by I'M Lewis and in the next paragraphs he shows hows its been challenged and overturned by newer scholarship.

This is the full Paragraph.

His opinion:

''So far, archaeology and linguistics have failed to provide any conclusive evidence of a Bantu migration into central Somaliland"

After evaluating the historical evidence he says:
"Thus there appears to be a lack of clear evidence that there were Bantu- speaking groups in central Somaliland at any early date, while the evidence relating to Bantu-speaking people being on the river Juba is either confused or tainted.30"

your claim here that the Katwa were somali contradicts what you have just showed me he literally says the katwa were proto somali Bajuni we both know Bajuni are not somali ethnically or linguistically. he then goes on to make some astonishing claims and tried claiming Liben was somali when the Borona up to this day claim the originate in Libin and it is literally the name of one of the largest Borana subclan, Gunther Schlee even makes mention on how the Borana originate in Liben. Turton concludes the oromo migrated to the area in the 16th century as if he didnt point out before in the pages above that the Orma migrated to the somali interior before the Borana migrations (16th century). the article is very confusing and all in all cannot be trusted. Lobo mentions the oromo being at war with the Mossegueios a people who can not be identified, I am clueless on why you are mixing them with the Somali.

''There are also traditions that Garre migrated from Afmadu and came as clients (shegat) to the Bajun, while the Katwa are sometimes referred to as a proto-Somali Bajun clan''.This man is very confused is proposing an idea that the Bajuni lived here before the pre hawiya and confuses them as Somali as for the Makatwa he himself cannot even confirm they were somali and goes on to say ''Yet, although it is a term that cannot be given any precision'', and after that he goes on to differentiate them from the Bajuni and clashes with what he has showed in the pages above. Turton just shows us many fantasy theories and the work he shows us has no evidence to back his ideas he uses a bantu theory to expel Oromos out the picture and then an Oromo theory to expel bantus out the picture confused person and cannot be trusted at all.

Bajunis are a mixed confederacy of clans.

Again he sumarrizing other peoples view points and then interrogates it. He says ''Katwa are sometimes referred to" so he is relating how others saw them.
He actually details there are Bajunis who claim descent from Somali clans like Garre in the passages before it but you left it out.

More detail on this. But the main point being Garre and Tunni Somali speakers are associated with Juba and lived there all the way down to kenya.

This view by Turton has been strenghtened by newer archeological and linguistic studies that there has been continuous Somali presence in Northern Kenya before they came in contact with ND(Northern Swahili speakers) and it was Southern Somali speakers like Garre/Tunni that spread out from Juba around 800 or earlier.

https://langsci-press.org/catalog/view/192/1510/1623-1

 

[GALAN]

Plenty of medieval Arabic writers and travelers like Ibn Idiris, Ibn Said, Ibn Battuta ect all very clearly talk about Somalis living in Jubaland/southern Somalia. Furthermore, that entire region was considered apart of Al-Barbaria aka Somalia. Then there are all the ruins and architecture left behind of Somali origin.


That isn't Oromo. "Gaal" is an archaic Somali word for Camel and has no relation to the word Galla which was only used by Habeshas. Many Somali clan names and places use the word Gaal in it so it is of clear Somali origin.

No it is only an Oromo tradition. Somali oral traditions say nothing about Oromos ruling over or dominating southern Somalia, there is no coroboration of that.

Gaal does not mean camel bro no need to lie about this, also yes Rahweyn do know about Gedi shambo Bilad Al barber was the northern part of Somalia The arabic sources of the time never use the term somali but Berber the people of Berbera. Also from what I know ibn Battuta does not use the term somali he tells us the customs and traditions of the people of Mogadishu and does not give us a deep understanding on these peoples identity they were Muslim. but if you can correct me here do.


Sxb im not telling you there was no Somali presence in Somalia before the 15th century, there undoubtedly was but now how we see it as today ''Somalia''. Before the Somali expansion the Oromo once lived in the Jubba/Baidoa/Garba Harre area the idea im promoting is that around the 14th-15th century the Somali abandoned this Border and invaded all the way past the Jubba which was probably shared by the Tunni and Oromo speaking people. by the 17th century the Oromo were pushed out of Northern, and Middle somalia to Jubbaland where they lived with the Jiddu and Tunni before the Elai/Darood invasions.

He is summarizing a previously held view by I'M Lewis and in the next paragraphs he shows hows its been challenged and overturned by newer scholarship.

This is the full Paragraph.
View attachment 363314
View attachment 363315

Me personally I haven't come across I.M lewis claiming the oromo expelled Batu from the area, in the article I did read he tells us that the somali expansion played a crucial role in the oromo expansion to the west. Turton himself adds a full stop and goes on with his own theory to my understanding I can be corrected here though if you can show me Lewis's text.

His opinion:

''So far, archaeology and linguistics have failed to provide any conclusive evidence of a Bantu migration into central Somaliland"View attachment 363316

After evaluating the historical evidence he says:
"Thus there appears to be a lack of clear evidence that there were Bantu- speaking groups in central Somaliland at any early date, while the evidence relating to Bantu-speaking people being on the river Juba is either confused or tainted.30"
View attachment 363317


Bajunis are a mixed confederacy of clans.

Again he sumarrizing other peoples view points and then interrogates it. He says ''Katwa are sometimes referred to" so he is relating how others saw them.
He actually details there are Bajunis who claim descent from Somali clans like Garre in the passages before it but you left it out.
View attachment 363319

Sxb I am not leaving it out there is just no need for me to argue or prove a point with you about origin of the Bajuni and if they are Ethnically Somali. Turton promotes His idea that they are to claim somalis are indegnious to this area in Jubaland using Bajuni name as a weapon.

More detail on this. But the main point being Garre and Tunni Somali speakers are associated with Juba and lived there all the way down to kenya.



View attachment 363318

I am confused here my freind, again he is just telling us we cant be for certain the Maractes were somali and as he explained before the Katwa were Bajunis. Stiles, Daniel claims the Aweer a people whos language has some similarities with Afaan Borona fled to the Bajuni islands and lived with the Bajuni these people (Bajuni/Aweer) were the real wakatwa not to confuse it with the Somali people.

This view by Turton has been strenghtened by newer archeological and linguistic studies that there has been continuous Somali presence in Northern Kenya before they came in contact with ND(Northern Swahili speakers) and it was Southern Somali speakers like Garre/Tunni that spread out from Juba around 800 or earlier.

https://langsci-press.org/catalog/view/192/1510/1623-1

View attachment 363320
View attachment 363321

The Tunni are the real indeginous, the Garre are also indigenous to this part of Africa but the Wardey preceded the Garre in some of these areas. around the 1700s the Tunni group that we know today was created and not the Tunni from before all though there is some elements of original Tunni in them they were influenced by the expansionist Hawiye.

 

[Zak12]

Gaal does not mean camel bro no need to lie about this,

Yeah it does. Geel is camel in af maxa but Gaal is camel in af maay which is the dialect that kept a lot of archaic Somali featuree. It very much is of Somali origin since many places and even clans have Gaal in the name such as Abgaal. Are you going to start claiming that Somali clans in Mogadishu are of Oromo origin now?

yes Rahweyn do know about Gedi shambo

No, they don't. There is no tradition among the Rahaweyn where they claim Oromos used to rule over them, that plain nonsense.

Bilad Al barber was the northern part of Somalia The arabic sources of the time never use the term somali but Berber the people of Berbera

Nope. They also applied Bilad Al Barber to southern Somalia as well. One Arabic writer defined it as stretching from Zeila to Barawe.

tells us the customs and traditions of the people of Mogadishu

He literally states that the Mogadishu sultan spoke Maqdishi in addition to Arabic. The forner is obviously Somali. Another eye witness account from another traveller states that Mogadishu had a nomadic way of life and had lots of camels, sheeps and goats.

the Oromo once lived in the Jubba/Baidoa/Garba Harre area

And I'm telling you that is straight up BS. I repeat, there is zero archeological, linguistic, genetic, written or oral evidence of an Oromo presence in southern Somalia. You also claimed Gaalkayo was Oromo so you are also saying they were living as far north as Mudug which is even dumber. Just please give me primary sources of Oromos being there and not false oral stories collected by a white dude that aren't even consistent with Somalis traditions.

 

[El Nino]

There is absolutely no point in arguing with this galan guy. He is from somalised oromo clan as he himself said. This has probably created multiple different weird complexes.

Just mute him and tell the admin to remove him. Man derails threads.

 

[NidarNidar]

There is absolutely no point in arguing with this galan guy. He is from somalised oromo clan as he himself said. This has probably created multiple different weird complexes.

Just mute him and tell the admin to remove him. Man derails threads.

Yes, he does. I have him muted, just not worth the time.

 

[GALAN]

Yeah it does. Geel is camel in af maxa but Gaal is camel in af maay which is the dialect that kept a lot of archaic Somali featuree. It very much is of Somali origin since many places and even clans have Gaal in the name such as Abgaal. Are you going to start claiming that Somali clans in Mogadishu are of Oromo origin now?

Gaal is Af maaay a whole different language dont mix it with somali bro. thats is like me telling you Abgaal means oromo in oromo.

No, they don't. There is no tradition among the Rahaweyn where they claim Oromos used to rule over them, that plain nonsense.

Ask Rahweyn elders before you jump to conclusions. Gedi Ababo was there ruler pre Ajuran expansion.

Nope. They also applied Bilad Al Barber to southern Somalia as well. One Arabic writer defined it as stretching from Zeila to Barawe.

This is one letter sxb it is well known Bilad Al barber was the land of northern Somalia no need to sit here and lie.

He literally states that the Mogadishu sultan spoke Maqdishi in addition to Arabic. The forner is obviously Somali. Another eye witness account from another traveller states that Mogadishu had a nomadic way of life and had lots of camels, sheeps and goats.

how can you tell it is obviously Arabic? its assumptions here.

And I'm telling you that is straight up BS. I repeat, there is zero archeological, linguistic, genetic, written or oral evidence of an Oromo presence in southern Somalia. You also claimed Gaalkayo was Oromo so you are also saying they were living as far north as Mudug which is even dumber. Just please give me primary sources of Oromos being there and not false oral stories collected by a white dude that aren't even consistent with Somalis traditions.

I can say the same for the modern somalis living in this region whatever or you do you cant rewrite history ill ask you again the meaning of Garba Harre in somali.

 

[GALAN]

Im stating facts bro.

Yes, he does. I have him muted, just not worth the time.

 

[Zak12]

a whole different language dont mix it with somali

Af maay is most certainly not a different language, its a dialect of Somali and is partially mutually intelligible.

Ask Rahweyn elders before you jump to conclusions.

I doubt you asked any to begin with. No southern traditions assert anything about Oromos ruling all of Jubaland.

This is one letter sxb it is well known Bilad Al barber was the land of northern Somalia

Many Arabic writere included the south as apart of bilad al barbar. It is not a one off instance but a geographic standard.

how can you tell it is obviously Arabic?

No, I said Maqdishi is obviously Somali.

I can say the same for the modern somalis living in this

Just give me primary sources. I'm waiting.

 

[GALAN]

Af maay is most certainly not a different language, its a dialect of Somali and is partially mutually intelligible.

It is a different language bro deal with it. The original indigenous people of this land is Jiddu, Tunni, Wardey, Boron, and Garre.

I doubt you asked any to begin with. No southern traditions assert anything about Oromos ruling all of Jubaland.

Like I said sxb go do some research on Gedi Abay Baabo there is no need to even argue with me about this just read the name.

Many Arabic writere included the south as apart of bilad al barbar. It is not a one off instance but a geographic standard.

Bilad lal Barbar was not southern somalia it was the immediate neighbour to the Arabs by sea which is modern day Somaliland you cant just give me your own theories Barbar was Northern Somalia end of story we both know this.

No, I said Maqdishi is obviously Somali.

My freind the he says the language was influenced by Arabic all these languages are part of the Afro Asiatic family tree he never says it is somali bro again with your assumptions.

Just give me primary sources. I'm waiting.

Ive showed you many secondary sources, primary sources are limited here bro because were talking about stuff nearly a thousand years ago in the Horn of Africa these people possibly couldn't be differentiated.

 

[GALAN]

Af maay is most certainly not a different language, its a dialect of Somali and is partially mutually intelligible.

I doubt you asked any to begin with. No southern traditions assert anything about Oromos ruling all of Jubaland.

Many Arabic writere included the south as apart of bilad al barbar. It is not a one off instance but a geographic standard.

No, I said Maqdishi is obviously Somali.

Just give me primary sources. I'm waiting.

you described this is a reconquest earlier so what your trying to say is the Ogaden and MX lived here before , got pushed out By Oromos and reconquered? this is ridiculous bro I don't know wether to take you serious or not.

 

[Zak12]

It is a different language bro deal with it.

It is not by any means. Its literally a dialect of Somali according to credible linguists and is partially mutually intelligible with af maxa aka standard Somali.

Like I said sxb go do some research

Continue to make things up I guess. You are lucky there aren't very many rahanweyn users on this site.

Bilad lal Barbar was not southern somalia

For the last time this is incorrect. Southern Somalia was frequently considered apart of Bilad Al Barbar as shown in maps and by quotes from geographers.

Anyway, the border between Bilad al-Zanj and Bilad al-Barbar shifts a bit from author to author. Ibn Said al-Maghribi has it at about the mouth of the Jubba far south of Xamar:


Battuta seems to have it at about just a bit south of Xamar. It varies over and over from author to author where exactly the border is. But, if I recall correctly, Ibn Said al-Maghribi who predates Battuta by 80 years seems to get the most specific and he has it at the Jubba.

There was the city of Berbera but they also called the general region of Somalia Bilad Al-Barbar and Babaroi/Barbaria in antiquity

In some maps medieval maps you can see how the divide it into Al-Habash, Al-Danakil and Al-Barbar . Al-Habash was a regional name for modern Ethiopia, Eritrean coast particularly Afar was called Al-Danakil and modern day Somalia in general was refered to as Al-Barbar.

They included towns like Mogadishu and Merca and Barawa in the Land of Barbar as well.

Here is another quote that explictly mentions black barbars living in southern Somalia.

Maqdishu is a city at the beginning of the country of the Zanj to the south of Yemen on the mainland of the Barbar in the midst of their country. These Barbar are not Barbar who live in the Maghrib for these are blacks resembling the Zunuj, a type intermediary between the Habash and the Zunuj."

"Merca is a town on the coast of the Zanj (Zandschabar), belonging to the Berbers of the Blacks, not the Berbers of the Maghrib."

he never says it is somali bro again with your assumptions.

Reread Ibn Battuta's description again. He said the sultan spoke Arabic in addition to another language. That language was Maqdishi aka Somali.

Ive showed you many secondary sources

They aren't even secondary sources. They aren't based on any primary source and instead its a bunch of unverified oral stories that lack consistency and aren't corrobated with the locals who actually live in that area.

you described this is a reconquest

It was Idilina who said that but nontheless there was always a Somali presence in Jubaland, even before Islam. Roman and Greek records confirm the existence of proto-Somali cities in the south.

 

[GALAN]

It is not by any means. Its literally a dialect of Somali according to credible linguists and is partially mutually intelligible with af maxa aka standard Somali.

View attachment 363392

View attachment 363393


Continue to make things up I guess. You are lucky there aren't very many rahanweyn users on this site.

All it takes is one search my freind. Also Af Mary and Af Tunni/Af Jiddu/Afaan Garre are distinct dont confuse them for Af Mary

For the last time this is incorrect. Southern Somalia was frequently considered apart of Bilad Al Barbar as shown in maps and by quotes from geographers.





Here is another quote that explictly mentions black barbars living in southern Somalia.

Maqdishu is a city at the beginning of the country of the Zanj to the south of Yemen on the mainland of the Barbar in the midst of their country. These Barbar are not Barbar who live in the Maghrib for these are blacks resembling the Zunuj, a type intermediary between the Habash and the Zunuj."

"Merca is a town on the coast of the Zanj (Zandschabar), belonging to the Berbers of the Blacks, not the Berbers of the Maghrib."

can you provide the source.

Reread Ibn Battuta's description again. He said the sultan spoke Arabic in addition to another language. That language was Maqdishi aka Somali.

How would we know if this was somali?.

They aren't even secondary sources. They aren't based on any primary source and instead its a bunch of unverified oral stories that lack consistency and aren't corrobated with the locals who actually live in that area.

Many of their works are also combined with what the locals have said for example the Ajuran say that the Wardey preceded them.

It was Idilina who said that but nontheless there was always a Somali presence in Jubaland, even before Islam. Roman and Greek records confirm the existence of proto-Somali cities in the south.

Again with the assumptions the name Somali was never mentioned by these Greeks if you can show me I will stop commenting about this.

Are you denying the Fact that Oromos preceded the Af maxa people in this area??. British literally witnessed this happen if you are bro.

 

[Zak12]

Afaan Garre are distinct dont confuse them for Af Mary

Well I am talking about Af maay which has camel as Gaal

can you provide the source.

Source are Ibn Battuta, Al Yaqubi, and Ibn Said

How would we know if this was somali?.

What else could it be? Occam's razor buddy, the sultan's native tongue was a Mogadishan language so it was Somali.

Many of their works are also combined with what the locals

Local traditions may mention Oromos but they certainly don't claim Oromos to be the predessesor group of southern Somalia.

the name Somali was never mentioned by these Greeks

Somalis were referred to as various names in pre modern times, the most common being Barbar which the Arabs later adopted.

Oromos preceded the Af maxa people in this area??

Oromos first arrived near the Juba-Tana area only in the 16th century. Somalis have been living in those places for centuries prior to that. That is irrefutable fact.

 

[GALAN]

Well I am talking about Af maay which has camel as Gaal


Source are Ibn Battuta, Al Yaqubi, and Ibn Said

Again Battuta never uses the Term Somali, sxb It looks like your very confused just jumping to your own assumptions. Af Maay and Af Maxa are not the same many different words so much that one can question if it is even Somali, you could even say Af Maay resembles Afaan Garre/Borona The same as it does Somali.

What else could it be? Occam's razor buddy, the sultan's native tongue was a Mogadishan language so it was Somali.


Local traditions may mention Oromos but they certainly don't claim Oromos to be the predessesor group of southern Somalia.


Somalis were referred to as various names in pre modern times, the most common being Barbar which the Arabs later adopted.

you claim the Greek said they were proto Somali this is wrong south of Somaliland was called Azania do not confuse the two Azania strectched from south of Ras Hafun to Tanzania.
(also you cannot say these people were only somali, what would These somalis be doing in Tanzania).


''At the straits began the "rest of Barbaria" (5:2.20). It included the African side of the Straits of Bab el Mandeb (cf. 7:3.19, 25:8.14-15), the northern coast of Somalia right up to Cape Guar- dafui (12:4.21), and a short stretch south of the cape as far as Ras Hafun; strung along its shore were the so-called "far-side" ports (7:3.10-11), from Avalites on the strait (7:3.13) to Opone on Ras Hafun (see under 13:5.3). Like the part of Barbaria just below Roman Egypt, it had no central authority but was ruled by local chieftains (14:5.14-16). South of Opone began what the author calls Azania (15:5.17-18, 16:6.3), the coast of Africa down to Rhapta in the vicinity of Dar es Salaam. At this time it was under Arab rule, a possession of the kingdom of the Sabaeans and Homerites''.

You cannot differentiate Barbaria, they didnt live under one supreme chief but these tribes had kings of their own probably according to which clan you were in at the time. you can not say the Barbarians were ultimately Somali, there probably was some Somali that lived in Barbaria but the Barbarians were not one people the Greeks described Barbaria as having started in Egypt, south of these tribes was the Abyssinian empire. For you to say these people who lived in-between Egypt and Northern Somalia were only Somalis is wrong and you cannot bring up a argument out of that.

Oromos first arrived near the Juba-Tana area only in the 16th century. Somalis have been living in those places for centuries prior to that. That is irrefutable fact.

kk @Idilinaa source literally shows us that the Wardey were in southern Somalia before the Borona expansions? 16th century. The Af maay people (Elai) came later to this area like I said this area was populated by the Wardey, Jiddu, and Tunni the Wardey even today still claim the Waamo kingdom before Ajuran was theirs.

 

[GALAN]

The chronicle I showed before tells us the Oromo were pushed back to Burhakaba 1500s 1600s they had been pushed to Juba 1880-1900s they were pushed out of Jubbaland.

 

[Riftvalley]

The Gabra are Oromo there are some elements of Garre presence amongst the Gabra Miigo but this is very small.


''In a nutshell, the issue of identity has been a bone of
controversies in many countries in the world and in Africa in
particular. It is no exception to Gabra Migo people in
Ethiopia in recent years. The Gabra Migo of today are the
Gabra Migo of the past in the sense that we can still observe
sameness in the identity of Gabra Migo. These people never
doubt about their Oromo identity for very long period of time
and still today they sting to their true identity. The recent
falsely associated Somali identity to Gabra Migo by some
groups like Garre and Gabra political traders is a politically
motivated scenario and calculated mission by Garre to get
dominance in the area. Hence, it can strongly be argued that
the grand labelling of Somali identity to Gabra Migo cannot
by no means reveals the real identity of the people under
study. The fact is Gabra Migo people was Oromo, they are
Oromo now and they continue to be Oromo no matter what''.
Aden Husien Hassen: A Refutation to a Claimed Gabra Migo People’s “Somali Identity”

This was a political article written by an Oromo nationalist. It was categorically refuted by Schlee, who showed that Garre, Gabbra, Sakuye and Rendille all adhered to a proto Somali camel culture before the Oromo migrations. Gabbra even means the one who was adopted into Oromo. Other Somalis adhered to an agro pastoralist or cattle herding. Northern Kenya was settled by Madanle, a Somali tribe.

Forget these groups like Rahanweyn, Garre, Tunni and Dabbare-Somalis-who you are trying deceptively trying to deny their somalinimo- groups like Jiddu, Baiso, and Elmolo are more closer to Somali than Oromo. Somalis made 2000 year old paintings along Harla caves, and you are out trying claim Dir medieval Islamic history as Oromo lol. You have cairns in Northern Kenya and burieals predating any Oromo presence in the area. AF may also has no Oromo substratum which shows you Oromo presence in southern Somalia and northern Kenya was recent and short lived. Basically, everything from linguistics, archaeology and genetics disagree with oromos predating Somalis anywhere in northern Kenya or southern Somalia. You have Somalis trading with Greeks in antiquity along the southern coast. Oromos were in the mountains during those times, abti.

 

[Riftvalley]

Again Battuta never uses the Term Somali, sxb It looks like your very confused just jumping to your own assumptions. Af Maay and Af Maxa are not the same many different words so much that one can question if it is even Somali, you could even say Af Maay resembles Afaan Garre/Borona The same as it does Somali.

you claim the Greek said they were proto Somali this is wrong south of Somaliland was called Azania do not confuse the two Azania strectched from south of Ras Hafun to Tanzania.
(also you cannot say these people were only somali, what would These somalis be doing in Tanzania).


''At the straits began the "rest of Barbaria" (5:2.20). It included the African side of the Straits of Bab el Mandeb (cf. 7:3.19, 25:8.14-15), the northern coast of Somalia right up to Cape Guar- dafui (12:4.21), and a short stretch south of the cape as far as Ras Hafun; strung along its shore were the so-called "far-side" ports (7:3.10-11), from Avalites on the strait (7:3.13) to Opone on Ras Hafun (see under 13:5.3). Like the part of Barbaria just below Roman Egypt, it had no central authority but was ruled by local chieftains (14:5.14-16). South of Opone began what the author calls Azania (15:5.17-18, 16:6.3), the coast of Africa down to Rhapta in the vicinity of Dar es Salaam. At this time it was under Arab rule, a possession of the kingdom of the Sabaeans and Homerites''.

You cannot differentiate Barbaria, they didnt live under one supreme chief but these tribes had kings of their own probably according to which clan you were in at the time. you can not say the Barbarians were ultimately Somali, there probably was some Somali that lived in Barbaria but the Barbarians were not one people the Greeks described Barbaria as having started in Egypt, south of these tribes was the Abyssinian empire. For you to say these people who lived in-between Egypt and Northern Somalia were only Somalis is wrong and you cannot bring up a argument out of that.


kk @Idilinaa source literally shows us that the Wardey were in southern Somalia before the Borona expansions? 16th century. The Af maay people (Elai) came later to this area like I said this area was populated by the Wardey, Jiddu, and Tunni the Wardey even today still claim the Waamo kingdom before Ajuran was theirs.

At this point you’re trolling if you think at Maya is even to than Af Maxa Tiri than Booraan. Baiso is closer to Af Maxa Tiri than Oromo and they remember their Somali origin

 

[GALAN]

This was a political article written by an Oromo nationalist. It was categorically refuted by Schlee, who showed that Garre, Gabbra, Sakuye and Rendille all adhered to a proto Somali camel culture before the Oromo migrations. Northern Kenya was settled by Madanle, a Somali tribe. Forget these groups like Rahanweyn, Garre, Tunni and Dabbare-Somalis-who you are trying deceptively trying to deny their somalinimo- groups like Jiddu, Baiso, and Elmolo are more closer to Somali than Oromo. Somalis made 2000 year old paintings along Harla caves, and you are out trying claim Dir medieval Islamic history as Oromo lol. You have cairns in Northern Kenya and burieals predating any Oromo presence in the area. AF may also has no Oromo substratum which shows you Oromo presence in southern Somalia and northern Kenya was recent and short lived. Basically, everything from linguistics, archaeology and genetics disagree with oromos predating Somalis anywhere in northern Kenya or southern Somalia. You have Somalis trading with Greeks in antiquity along the southern coast. Oromos were in the mountains during those times, abti.

complete bs. The Gabbra Migo (who schlee mentions) have some elements of Garre within them but the Majority Gabra and the Male do not. You can attempt to make an argument out of Garre's being Somali but no way with Gabra how can you say these people are somali when they are under the Gada system try again next time my freind.

I am not trying to take their Somalinimo from them, they themselves know they are closer to Oromo origin and have been trying to join Oromia.

''Addis Admass, a weekly News Paper, www.Addisadmas.com, accessed on 23.o5.2009. According to interview with an official from the Constitutional and Regional Affairs, four groups were waiting for recognition in 2008. These were, (1) the Wolene (known as one of the Gurage clans) demanded separation from the Gurage; (2) the Manjo (a cast group among the Shakicho) demanded separation from Shakicho; the Dube (a group who claim a Bantu origin among the Somali ) requested to be separated from the Somali, and (4) the Darawa demanded a change from the Somali to the Oromo''. (Interview on 04.01.2008, Addis Ababa) kkkkkk.

Schlees work has been challenged by other scholars who have made a stronger argument on these people identity, anywho it is politics they are doing this for their benefit the Gabra still have Lubas/Qallu/Gada this is enough to prove there oromuma.

 

[Zak12]

Again Battuta never uses the Term Somali

Barbar = Somali, this is fact no matter how much you deny it. It was a premodern designation for Somalis. By your logic Ethiopians never existed in before the 19th century because there are no mentions of "Ethiopian" during the middle ages and antiquity, only Abyssinian and Al-Habesha.

Af Maay and Af Maxa are not the same many different words

They share a lot of words actually but vocabulary doesn't determine language differences. Syntax, structure and grammar does and Af Maay literally shares the same foundation as Af Maxa. You aren't a linguist so don't challenge them on that.

you could even say Af Maay resembles Afaan Garre/Borona

No you couldn't because Af Maay literally belongs to a different Cushitic language branch from Oromo.

south of Somaliland was called Azania

Azania was primarily located in Kenya and Tanzania, try again. southern Somalia was very much apart of the Roman/Greek definition of Barbaria.

but the Barbarians were not one people the Greeks described Barbaria as having started in Egypt,

The Barbaria I am talking about is the Somalia, the place where Sarapion, Opone and those other towns were mentioned in the Periplus. Egypt isn't relevant here. Those towns were all inhabited by Proto-Somalis.

hat the Wardey were in southern Somalia before the Borona expansions?

Somalis have been in the area since antiquity or early middle ages at the very latest.