THE PORTUGUESE ON THE THE SWAHILI AND SOMALI COASTS

Som

VIP
This is an interesting read, there is alot of misinformation on wikipedia about portuguese interaction on the coast of somalia.

The book of duarte Barbosa gives us a small description of Mogadishu and it's inhabitants.
The natives are described as brown and black and few are fair. They are called Moorish. Keep in mind Moor just meant Muslim and not Arab. Brown and black colours are widespread among ethnic Somalis. Keep in mind Portuguese aren't much more darker than Arabs and also the
Your source says the Mogadishu and the Banadir coast was inhabited by Arabs mixed with natives but we know for a fact that :
-Hawiye inhabited Merca since the middle ages (12th century)as Arab sources tell us
- Mogadishu's ONLY sultan who has been described was identified as a barbar (somali) who spoke arabic and mogadishan (maybe an old form of somalis).
- Portuguese sources describe a clash with Mogadishu natives who used poisoned arrows against them. Only native somalis especially Hawiye have a tradition of using this weapon.
Mogadishu was a multi ethnic city, Arabs live there in great numbers but the population wasn't majority mixed arab-somali.
 

Hamzza

VIP
Mogadishu's ONLY sultan who has been described was identified as a barbar (somali) who spoke arabic and mogadishan (maybe an old form of somalis).
Some scholars are saying mogadishan is a swahili dialect like chimini in brava.
 

Som

VIP
Some scholars are saying mogadishan is a swahili dialect like chimini in brava.
It's admittedly a guess work hypothesis. There's zero evidence of mogadishan except what Ibn battuta. If Mogadishan was Swahili it would have certainly remained a relevant dialect like af Barawe is or at least it would have influenced af Somali spoken in that areas. The sultan was identified as barbar which is a term only used for somalia and other cushites, the Swahili would have been described as such or maybe even as Zanj. The fact the sultan is identified as barbar which is the same term Arabs used for inhabitants of Zeila and Hawiye in Merca makes me think that mogadishan was an early form of Af Somali
 
The book of duarte Barbosa gives us a small description of Mogadishu and it's inhabitants.
The natives are described as brown and black and few are fair. They are called Moorish. Keep in mind Moor just meant Muslim and not Arab. Brown and black colours are widespread among ethnic Somalis. Keep in mind Portuguese aren't much more darker than Arabs and also the
Your source says the Mogadishu and the Banadir coast was inhabited by Arabs mixed with natives but we know for a fact that :
-Hawiye inhabited Merca since the middle ages (12th century)as Arab sources tell us
- Mogadishu's ONLY sultan who has been described was identified as a barbar (somali) who spoke arabic and mogadishan (maybe an old form of somalis).
- Portuguese sources describe a clash with Mogadishu natives who used poisoned arrows against them. Only native somalis especially Hawiye have a tradition of using this weapon.
Mogadishu was a multi ethnic city, Arabs live there in great numbers but the population wasn't majority mixed arab-somali.

I would like to add the southern banadir coast from Mogadishu down to baraawe
Were inhabited by older hawiye clans like hintire, ajuraan (whose maternal hawiye ) , wadalan and silcis in the early 12th century befor hiraab came from mudug and ceeldheer region .
When they say they spoke Mogadishu language they are talking about is the accent af xatiri whose still spoken by banadiri hawiye clans and more importantly abgaal.
 

Shimbiris

بىَر غىَل إيؤ عآنؤ لؤ
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It's admittedly a guess work hypothesis. There's zero evidence of mogadishan except what Ibn battuta. If Mogadishan was Swahili it would have certainly remained a relevant dialect like af Barawe is or at least it would have influenced af Somali spoken in that areas. The sultan was identified as barbar which is a term only used for somalia and other cushites, the Swahili would have been described as such or maybe even as Zanj. The fact the sultan is identified as barbar which is the same term Arabs used for inhabitants of Zeila and Hawiye in Merca makes me think that mogadishan was an early form of Af Somali

It's also worth noting that there's no real influence like in the form of substratums from Swahili (or Bantu) in the dialects found in the Banaadir region. Pretty much nothing. In fact, when linguists investigate contact with Swahili it mostly looks like the Swahili speakers clearly came after the Somaloid (Af-Maxaa, Af-Maay, Tunni etc.) speaking groups and as small splintered groups like the Bajuni and Chimwini:



It looks more like the Somaloid speaking groups influenced them than the other way around. Things like Shungwaya have also been debunked and disavowed by the same scholars who used to support them and it looks like even the earlier Somalized Bantu communities in Koonfur were most likely simply brought as slaves during the Ajuuraan's era.

The linguistics appears pretty straight-forward on this. When Battuta came the only native folks of that region would have been groups speaking things like Maay, Banaadiri variants of Af-Maxaa, Tunni and so on. Not Bantus.

The book of duarte Barbosa gives us a small description of Mogadishu and it's inhabitants.
The natives are described as brown and black and few are fair. They are called Moorish. Keep in mind Moor just meant Muslim and not Arab. Brown and black colours are widespread among ethnic Somalis.

Read what the Portuguese write about "Adal" to the north. They describe the exact same skin tones as in the Banaadir which further bolsters your point. Except in "Adal" there are, from what I remember, no more "white" minorities which probably means there weren't much settled Arabs in the area at that time unlike in the Banaadir.
 
The book of duarte Barbosa gives us a small description of Mogadishu and it's inhabitants.
The natives are described as brown and black and few are fair. They are called Moorish. Keep in mind Moor just meant Muslim and not Arab. Brown and black colours are widespread among ethnic Somalis. Keep in mind Portuguese aren't much more darker than Arabs and also the
Your source says the Mogadishu and the Banadir coast was inhabited by Arabs mixed with natives but we know for a fact that :
-Hawiye inhabited Merca since the middle ages (12th century)as Arab sources tell us
- Mogadishu's ONLY sultan who has been described was identified as a barbar (somali) who spoke arabic and mogadishan (maybe an old form of somalis).
- Portuguese sources describe a clash with Mogadishu natives who used poisoned arrows against them. Only native somalis especially Hawiye have a tradition of using this weapon.
Mogadishu was a multi ethnic city, Arabs live there in great numbers but the population wasn't majority mixed arab-somali.


There was no Hawiye at the time when the Portuguese attacked Mogadishu. It was a thriving town that was part of the Swahili coast. The Ajuran came to the assistance of the Muslims at the time who were defending the town. The Ajuuraan, Digil, and Geledi (Garre) were the closest Somalis who could've been there in addition to Arabs and Persian Muslims who helped founded the town.

The Portuguese first attacked Mombasa and other towns in the Swahili coast. The Arab and Persian Muslims in those towns pleaded to the Ajuuraan to assist them. That is when the Ajuuraan sent the army to help those Muslims.

In my limited research on this topic, the Portuguese attacked Mogadishu as a diversionary tactic in order to get the Ajuuraan Sultanate to be preoccupied there instead of sending mujaheddin to assist Muslims in the Mombasa and other towns who were attacked by the Portuguese.

The Portuguese also summoned the Abyssinians to attack the Ajuuraan. There was a major battle that ensued around the Jubba river. That was where the Ajuuraan and Abyssinians fought major battles. Luckily, most of the Abyssinian forces were decimated by a kind of malaria illness they contracted around the Jubba river.

Then there was the Gaalmadow wars, where Gallas were pushing back and attacking the Somali Ajuuraan.

Those persistent battles weakened the Ajuuraan sultanate. And then Hawiye clans from what is known now central Somalia attacked the Ajuuraan. This was the biggest backstab that had broken the camel's back. And Hawiye arrival in Mogadishu and Merca came after they backstabbed the Ajuuraan and drove them out of the central Somalia to what is now Middle Jubba region where you found the Ajuuraan community there.
 
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convincation

Soomaali waa Hawiyah Iyo Hashiyah
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There was no Hawiye at the time when the Portuguese attacked Mogadishu. It was a thriving town that was part of the Swahili coast. The Ajuran came to the assistance of the Muslims at the time who were defending the town. The Ajuuraan, Digil, and Geledi (Garre) were the closest Somalis who could've been there in addition to Arabs and Persian Muslims who helped founded the town.

The Portuguese first attacked Mombasa and other towns in the Swahili coast. The Arab and Persian Muslims in those towns pleaded to the Ajuuraan to assist them. That is when the Ajuuraan sent the army to help those Muslims.

In my limited research on this topic, the Portuguese attacked Mogadishu as a diversionary tactic in order to get the Ajuuraan Sultanate to be preoccupied there instead of sending mujaheddin to assist Muslims in the Mombasa and other towns who were attacked by the Portuguese.

The Portuguese also summoned the Abyssinians to attack the Ajuuraan. There was a major battle that ensued around the Jubba river. That was where the Ajuuraan and Abyssinians fought major battles. Luckily, most of the Abyssinian forces were decimated by a kind of malaria illness they contracted around the Jubba river.

Then there was the Gaalmadow wars, where Gallas were pushing back and attacking the Somali Ajuuraan.

Those persistent battles weakened the Ajuuraan sultanate. And then Hawiye clans from what is known now central Somalia attacked the Ajuuraan. This was the biggest backstab that had broken the camel's back. And Hawiye arrival in Mogadishu and Merca came after they backstabbed the Ajuuraan and drove them out of the central Somalia to what is now Middle Jubba region where you found the Ajuuraan community there.
So according to you hawiye arrived in Mogadishu and merca after they overthrow the ajuran (16th century) even tho they were mentioned as the predominant clan in merca 400 years earlier than that? Does that make hawiye time travellers :cosbyhmm:
 
So according to you hawiye arrived in Mogadishu and merca after they overthrow the ajuran (16th century) even tho they were mentioned as the predominant clan in merca 400 years earlier than that? Does that make hawiye time travellers :cosbyhmm:
Y'all aint ajurran ajuraan is from another samaale son

:hemad: :hemad:
 
So according to you hawiye arrived in Mogadishu and merca after they overthrow the ajuran (16th century) even tho they were mentioned as the predominant clan in merca 400 years earlier than that? Does that make hawiye time travellers :cosbyhmm:


I chuckle Whenever shishea that havent even been to the banadir region or have no connections to there talk about its rich history , is like an ethiopion oromo talking about the Aksum history and telling us about its rich history .

The cuqdad they have hawiye is eating them inside .
 
Gaaljecel and hawadle are also samaale clans but guess who they have cultural connections and shared origins with ?
Don't care

I Dont Season 8 GIF by Friends
 

Som

VIP
There was no Hawiye at the time when the Portuguese attacked Mogadishu. It was a thriving town that was part of the Swahili coast. The Ajuran came to the assistance of the Muslims at the time who were defending the town. The Ajuuraan, Digil, and Geledi (Garre) were the closest Somalis who could've been there in addition to Arabs and Persian Muslims who helped founded the town.

The Portuguese first attacked Mombasa and other towns in the Swahili coast. The Arab and Persian Muslims in those towns pleaded to the Ajuuraan to assist them. That is when the Ajuuraan sent the army to help those Muslims.

In my limited research on this topic, the Portuguese attacked Mogadishu as a diversionary tactic in order to get the Ajuuraan Sultanate to be preoccupied there instead of sending mujaheddin to assist Muslims in the Mombasa and other towns who were attacked by the Portuguese.

The Portuguese also summoned the Abyssinians to attack the Ajuuraan. There was a major battle that ensued around the Jubba river. That was where the Ajuuraan and Abyssinians fought major battles. Luckily, most of the Abyssinian forces were decimated by a kind of malaria illness they contracted around the Jubba river.

Then there was the Gaalmadow wars, where Gallas were pushing back and attacking the Somali Ajuuraan.

Those persistent battles weakened the Ajuuraan sultanate. And then Hawiye clans from what is known now central Somalia attacked the Ajuuraan. This was the biggest backstab that had broken the camel's back. And Hawiye arrival in Mogadishu and Merca came after they backstabbed the Ajuuraan and drove them out of the central Somalia to what is now Middle Jubba region where you found the Ajuuraan community there.
I never talked about Hawiye in Mogadishu. I said they lived on the Banadir coast which is a historical fact.
Ajuuran lived in Xamar, technically to day they are Hawiye
 

Hamzza

VIP
Ajuuran lived in Xamar, technically to day they are
Which ajuraan's? There is a small clan in xamar(moorshow) that claims to be ajuuraan, but no one knows if they are the true descendants of the real ajuraan or they are random somalis.
 

Hamzza

VIP
There was no Hawiye at the time when the Portuguese attacked Mogadishu. It was a thriving town that was part of the Swahili coast.
When the arab settlers and merchants from the persian gulf were establishing themselves along the benadir coast, bringing trade, wealth and culture with them.The hinterland was still inhabited by madows, at least as far as southern somalia is concerned.
In the 14th century Ibn battutah already describes mogadisho as a Somali, as well as an arab, city-state, but more or less in the same epoch al-Dimasiqi relates that near the town is "the country of Kalbah, inhabited by muslim Zeng". The first oriental settlers must have found here an ethnical situation similar to that of the swahili coast from lamu and kilwa right down to sofala.
 
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