You're Djiboutian? That's why reer Geelle look Somali to you. Je suis désolé mon ami! Of course you're totally Somali
A SOMALI guy in the show "The Sopranos"
- Thread starter Aegon
- Start date
You're Djiboutian? That's why reer Geelle look Somali to you. Je suis désolé mon ami! Of course you're totally Somali
Bundasliga
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How you wanna kick out Djiboutians out their own countryDo you know what ethnicity is?
My final ultimate offer, kick those Dj*boutians and pseudo-habeshas out or let my brethren of Bantu persuasion in.
I didn't want to do anyone dirty, but not everyone's lineage is equal. I myself am a true laandheere. Out of politeness, I take other people's claims at face value.
"Noooo we wuz cushite n sheit Ethiopians are our brothers. Sheikh Darood is not real!!!"
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Djibouti is the only Somali governed place that has somehow some structure & order
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Is the south getting bantunized LOOLHow you wanna kick out Djiboutians out their own country
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They breed more kids than somalis some say xamar and kismayo are full of madowweyn .
As a Djiboutian that will never happen! FU and your bantu brothers! There’s no Somali Bantus in the North nor in Djibouti! Keeep dreaming…..
Are you those Hutuwayie that’s people talk about? Is that your landhere lineage?!? Either way I don’t care about qabil since it doesn’t do anything for me but your pseudo landernimo is funny to me
How you wanna kick out Djiboutians out their own country
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Djibouti belongs to them, tf. I'm just saying, there are many sus Somalis coming from that side. I'm just saying these purity tests and gatekeeping of the Somali ethnicity doesn't hold up very well.
You guys will sit here and just tell me to my face that Aboflah type niggas and Sheikh Sharif are the same people. But Samaale, Cushitic, downward migration, Hawiye's burial site-
Funny how you shift the goalposts, saaxiib, and ignore how you were basically eviscerated on points like the following:
- No Arab geographer anywhere like in the Middle-Ages mentions Shungwaya (you made that up)
- Shungwaya being in Koonfur is indeed a debunked myth
- Those earlier Bantus you kept harking back to are just earlier assimilated slaves
Anyway, the border between Bilad al-Zanj and Bilad al-Barbar shifts a bit from author to author. Ibn Said al-Maghribi has it at about the mouth of the Jubba far south of Xamar:
Battuta seems to have it at about just a bit south of Xamar. It varies over and over from author to author where exactly the border is. But, if I recall correctly, Ibn Said al-Maghribi who predates Battuta by 80 years seems to get the most specific and he has it at the Jubba. Anyway, none of these sources are conclusive enough when collated together. Just giving you a general idea that the area around the Banaadir ports to just south of them is the border between the two "countries" so we need to defer to things like linguistics where even linguists focused on Bantu agree plainly that the indigenous element in Koonfur are Cushites:
There's not even evidence of Bantu substrates in any of the Somaloid "dialects"/languages in Koonfur, from what I know. Again, sorry to say, saaxiib.... but Bantu folks are not native to Koonfur, nor do they predate non-North-Somali speaking Somaloid groups in the area, pastoralist or otherwise. Cushites like South Cushites predated Bantus in KENYA let alone Koonfur:
Savanna Pastoral Neolithic - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
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You act like it's hard to tell whose somali & whose not lolDjibouti belongs to them, tf. I'm just saying, there are many sus Somalis coming from that side. I'm just saying these purity tests and gatekeeping of the Somali ethnicity doesn't hold up very well.
You guys will sit here and just tell me to my face that Aboflah type niggas and Sheikh Sharif are the same people. But Samaale, Cushitic, downward migration, Hawiye's burial site-
Granted I can deffo see the difference between Somalis and non Somali but that former president makes my skin crawl whenever I look at his face…. Uffffff
I've been "eviscerated" 
You know when people bat themselves on the back, they don't have much confidence in their arguments.
1. Here is what historian and author R. F. Morton stated about Shungwaya:
"There seems to be real evidence that a city called Shungwaya once stood
on the southern Somali coast. It is so placed on (one) British and (sev-
eral) Dutch maps, the earliest bein g the Linschoten chart, 1596. Ver-
sions of the Kilwa and Pate chronicl es mention Shungwaya, the former
as an important city in the Shirazi co lonization of the coast, the latter as
a city brought to heel along with Kismayu, Baraawa and Mogadishu by
Sultan Omar of Pate in the fourt eenth century. The Portuguese men-
tioned Shungwaya (Jungaya, etc.) but apparently they had never
stopped there. 11"
He's sourced his findings in British and Dutch maps and also in Portuguese archives.
2, Here is another historian and philosopher James De V Allen describing it.
Source: http://psimg.jstor.org/fsi/img/pdf/t0/10.5555/al.ch.document.sip200016_final.pdf
"There are additional reasons for locating Tiung-lji in the Lamu region. As
Wheatley points out, the Chinese name is a reasonable approximation of
Shungwaya (Shangaya,Jungaya, etc.), a name which appears frequently in the
historical traditions south of the Juba River but not in the northern Horn.
Shungwaya must have been a place of some importance. So, evidently, was
Tiung-lji, for our Chinese source, Chao Ju-kua, devotes more space to his
description of it than to any other East African territory. As well as a settlement,
he seems to see it as some sort of a state, for he attributes to it land boundaries
approximately 1,500 miles long, though he adds that it is mostly unpopulated.2
Shungwaya, too, is often spoken of as if it were a state as well as a town.
The Earliest Coastal Settlements
It is not suggested that Shanga is Shungwaya. It seems always to have been called
Shanga, and members of a community in neighbouring Siyu Town who claim
origins from it still call themselves waShanga. But throughout its existence
Shanga seems to have been typical of almost any east coast settlement in the
vicinity of the Lamu Archipelago, and this is a powerful reason for locating
Tiung-Iji in this area.
Only one problem remains. The excavations at Shanga indicate that the first
mosque there may have been built in c. 950 or even earlier, while a much bigger
building which was certainly a mosque was constructed c. 1050-1075, and in such
a commanding position as to suggest that Islam became the official and majority
religion at that date. Unless, therefore, ChaoJu-kua's description of Tiung-iji dates
from a short period after the arrival of the camel-eaters c. 1050 and before
Islamisation we should expect Tiung-lji to be Muslim. But he does not describe it
as such. To be sure, he does not specifically describe it as non-Islamic either but
he does seem to contrast it with the 'four stone towns' of the coast of Barbara,
which he specifically says were Muslim. (These four towns can only have been
Mogadishu, Merca, Barawa and the settlement near the mouth of theJuba which
has long been abandoned.) Stone buildings are not actually described, but the
Chinese term used for 'town', so Wheatley tells us, could only apply to a place
which was largely stone-built. The difficulty may resolve itself if we can locate
and excavate Tiung-lji/Shungwaya. Meanwhile, we can only surmise. But a
reasonable conjecture is that the ruling group in this place was indeed at least
nominally Muslim by 1075-1100, but that the settlement itself was an important
ritual centre of the earlier religion. Its ruler had previously dominated a large state
or empire largely through the quasi-religious prestige of the particular settlement
in which he lived. By the eleventh century many of the neighbouring settlements,
Shanga included, had adopted Islam, but his ruraldwelling subjects remained loyal
to their old religion and to the Shungwaya ritual centre where he lived."
As part of his research, Mr Allen combined historical archives with those of the oral traditions of Swahili-speaking people in the coast including the Bajuni.
Continued. in the next comment...
You know when people bat themselves on the back, they don't have much confidence in their arguments.1. Here is what historian and author R. F. Morton stated about Shungwaya:
"There seems to be real evidence that a city called Shungwaya once stood
on the southern Somali coast. It is so placed on (one) British and (sev-
eral) Dutch maps, the earliest bein g the Linschoten chart, 1596. Ver-
sions of the Kilwa and Pate chronicl es mention Shungwaya, the former
as an important city in the Shirazi co lonization of the coast, the latter as
a city brought to heel along with Kismayu, Baraawa and Mogadishu by
Sultan Omar of Pate in the fourt eenth century. The Portuguese men-
tioned Shungwaya (Jungaya, etc.) but apparently they had never
stopped there. 11"
He's sourced his findings in British and Dutch maps and also in Portuguese archives.
2, Here is another historian and philosopher James De V Allen describing it.
Source: http://psimg.jstor.org/fsi/img/pdf/t0/10.5555/al.ch.document.sip200016_final.pdf
"There are additional reasons for locating Tiung-lji in the Lamu region. As
Wheatley points out, the Chinese name is a reasonable approximation of
Shungwaya (Shangaya,Jungaya, etc.), a name which appears frequently in the
historical traditions south of the Juba River but not in the northern Horn.
Shungwaya must have been a place of some importance. So, evidently, was
Tiung-lji, for our Chinese source, Chao Ju-kua, devotes more space to his
description of it than to any other East African territory. As well as a settlement,
he seems to see it as some sort of a state, for he attributes to it land boundaries
approximately 1,500 miles long, though he adds that it is mostly unpopulated.2
Shungwaya, too, is often spoken of as if it were a state as well as a town.
The Earliest Coastal Settlements
It is not suggested that Shanga is Shungwaya. It seems always to have been called
Shanga, and members of a community in neighbouring Siyu Town who claim
origins from it still call themselves waShanga. But throughout its existence
Shanga seems to have been typical of almost any east coast settlement in the
vicinity of the Lamu Archipelago, and this is a powerful reason for locating
Tiung-Iji in this area.
Only one problem remains. The excavations at Shanga indicate that the first
mosque there may have been built in c. 950 or even earlier, while a much bigger
building which was certainly a mosque was constructed c. 1050-1075, and in such
a commanding position as to suggest that Islam became the official and majority
religion at that date. Unless, therefore, ChaoJu-kua's description of Tiung-iji dates
from a short period after the arrival of the camel-eaters c. 1050 and before
Islamisation we should expect Tiung-lji to be Muslim. But he does not describe it
as such. To be sure, he does not specifically describe it as non-Islamic either but
he does seem to contrast it with the 'four stone towns' of the coast of Barbara,
which he specifically says were Muslim. (These four towns can only have been
Mogadishu, Merca, Barawa and the settlement near the mouth of theJuba which
has long been abandoned.) Stone buildings are not actually described, but the
Chinese term used for 'town', so Wheatley tells us, could only apply to a place
which was largely stone-built. The difficulty may resolve itself if we can locate
and excavate Tiung-lji/Shungwaya. Meanwhile, we can only surmise. But a
reasonable conjecture is that the ruling group in this place was indeed at least
nominally Muslim by 1075-1100, but that the settlement itself was an important
ritual centre of the earlier religion. Its ruler had previously dominated a large state
or empire largely through the quasi-religious prestige of the particular settlement
in which he lived. By the eleventh century many of the neighbouring settlements,
Shanga included, had adopted Islam, but his ruraldwelling subjects remained loyal
to their old religion and to the Shungwaya ritual centre where he lived."
As part of his research, Mr Allen combined historical archives with those of the oral traditions of Swahili-speaking people in the coast including the Bajuni.
Continued. in the next comment...
Funny how you shift the goalposts, saaxiib, and ignore how you were basically eviscerated on points like the following:
- No Arab geographer anywhere like in the Middle-Ages mentions Shungwaya (you made that up)
- Shungwaya being in Koonfur is indeed a debunked myth
- Those earlier Bantus you kept harking back to are just earlier assimilated slaves
Anyway, the border between Bilad al-Zanj and Bilad al-Barbar shifts a bit from author to author. Ibn Said al-Maghribi has it at about the mouth of the Jubba far south of Xamar:
Battuta seems to have it at about just a bit south of Xamar. It varies over and over from author to author where exactly the border is. But, if I recall correctly, Ibn Said al-Maghribi who predates Battuta by 80 years seems to get the most specific and he has it at the Jubba. Anyway, none of these sources are conclusive enough when collated together. Just giving you a general idea that the area around the Banaadir ports to just south of them is the border between the two "countries" so we need to defer to things like linguistics where even linguists focused on Bantu agree plainly that the indigenous element in Koonfur are Cushites:
There's not even evidence of Bantu substrates in any of the Somaloid "dialects"/languages in Koonfur, from what I know. Again, sorry to say, saaxiib.... but Bantu folks are not native to Koonfur, nor do they predate non-North-Somali speaking Somaloid groups in the area, pastoralist or otherwise. Cushites like South Cushites predated Bantus in KENYA let alone Koonfur:
Savanna Pastoral Neolithic - Wikipedia
We get it your Somali bantu trying to claim that your indigenous to the south of Somalia…….I've been "eviscerated"
1. Here is what historian and author R. F. Morton stated about Shungwaya:
"There seems to be real evidence that a city called Shungwaya once stood
on the southern Somali coast. It is so placed on (one) British and (sev-
eral) Dutch maps, the earliest bein g the Linschoten chart, 1596. Ver-
sions of the Kilwa and Pate chronicl es mention Shungwaya, the former
as an important city in the Shirazi co lonization of the coast, the latter as
a city brought to heel along with Kismayu, Baraawa and Mogadishu by
Sultan Omar of Pate in the fourt eenth century. The Portuguese men-
tioned Shungwaya (Jungaya, etc.) but apparently they had never
stopped there. 11"
He's sourced his findings in British and Dutch maps and also in Portuguese archives.
2, Here is another historian and philosopher James De V Allen describing it.
Source: http://psimg.jstor.org/fsi/img/pdf/t0/10.5555/al.ch.document.sip200016_final.pdf
"There are additional reasons for locating Tiung-lji in the Lamu region. As
Wheatley points out, the Chinese name is a reasonable approximation of
Shungwaya (Shangaya,Jungaya, etc.), a name which appears frequently in the
historical traditions south of the Juba River but not in the northern Horn.
Shungwaya must have been a place of some importance. So, evidently, was
Tiung-lji, for our Chinese source, Chao Ju-kua, devotes more space to his
description of it than to any other East African territory. As well as a settlement,
he seems to see it as some sort of a state, for he attributes to it land boundaries
approximately 1,500 miles long, though he adds that it is mostly unpopulated.2
Shungwaya, too, is often spoken of as if it were a state as well as a town.
The Earliest Coastal Settlements
It is not suggested that Shanga is Shungwaya. It seems always to have been called
Shanga, and members of a community in neighbouring Siyu Town who claim
origins from it still call themselves waShanga. But throughout its existence
Shanga seems to have been typical of almost any east coast settlement in the
vicinity of the Lamu Archipelago, and this is a powerful reason for locating
Tiung-Iji in this area.
Only one problem remains. The excavations at Shanga indicate that the first
mosque there may have been built in c. 950 or even earlier, while a much bigger
building which was certainly a mosque was constructed c. 1050-1075, and in such
a commanding position as to suggest that Islam became the official and majority
religion at that date. Unless, therefore, ChaoJu-kua's description of Tiung-iji dates
from a short period after the arrival of the camel-eaters c. 1050 and before
Islamisation we should expect Tiung-lji to be Muslim. But he does not describe it
as such. To be sure, he does not specifically describe it as non-Islamic either but
he does seem to contrast it with the 'four stone towns' of the coast of Barbara,
which he specifically says were Muslim. (These four towns can only have been
Mogadishu, Merca, Barawa and the settlement near the mouth of theJuba which
has long been abandoned.) Stone buildings are not actually described, but the
Chinese term used for 'town', so Wheatley tells us, could only apply to a place
which was largely stone-built. The difficulty may resolve itself if we can locate
and excavate Tiung-lji/Shungwaya. Meanwhile, we can only surmise. But a
reasonable conjecture is that the ruling group in this place was indeed at least
nominally Muslim by 1075-1100, but that the settlement itself was an important
ritual centre of the earlier religion. Its ruler had previously dominated a large state
or empire largely through the quasi-religious prestige of the particular settlement
in which he lived. By the eleventh century many of the neighbouring settlements,
Shanga included, had adopted Islam, but his ruraldwelling subjects remained loyal
to their old religion and to the Shungwaya ritual centre where he lived."
As part of his research, Mr Allen combined historical archives with those of the oral traditions of Swahili-speaking people in the coast including the Bajuni.
View attachment 216525
Continued. in the next comment...
3. Chinese historian and politician Chao Ju-kua during the Sung dynasty (170–1231) documented Shunwangya after he met merchants from there ( https://sites.google.com/site/historyofeastafrica/chao-ju-kua-1). Historian James De V Allen actually used him as a reliable source.
"27 THE LAND BORDERING BERBERA (TIUNG-LJI)also called Zhonglji or Chung-li
Note: For long it was thought that the land of Tiung-Lji was in Arabia, till one found that the translation of the name comes close to Shangaya, Jungaya...making it a candidate for Shungwaya.
The inhabitants of the country of Chung-li go bareheaded and barefoot. They wrap a cloth around themselves but do not wear jackets. Only ministers and the king's courtiers wear jackets and turbans as a mark of distinction. The king's residence is masoned out of large bricks and slabs of stone; the people's houses are made of palm leaves and are covered with thatch. Their daily fare consists of baked flour-cakes, sheep's and cattle's milk. Cattle, sheep and camels are their big food (only eaten at special occasions)..."
4. So to sum it up, Shubgwaya is not a myth, but a kingdom or sultanate that once existed in Southern Somalia. It has been documented and confirmed by different historians, travelers, and merchannts.
5. Finally, Ibn Batuta was a renowned traveler, Islamic scholar, and a historian. After he visited Mogadishu in 1331 A.D all the way to Mombasa, he confirmed between these 2 towns were the land of Zanj (Bantu or Negro people).
Now, you can dance around all you want, you and others with limited information can deny all you want, but the existence of Shungwaya kingdom and the presence of Bantu community have been confirmed by different travelers and scholars. The oral tradition of Bajuni and J/areerweyne communities confirm this fact as well. The huge presence between Mogadishu - Mombasa has been confirmed at least 900 years ago. No Somali racists can deny that fact. Recorded history will refute any biased diarrhea that you guys posted about the history of Somali Bantu.
As for me, I rest my case as I was able to cite different scholars in such a short time.
"27 THE LAND BORDERING BERBERA (TIUNG-LJI)also called Zhonglji or Chung-li
Note: For long it was thought that the land of Tiung-Lji was in Arabia, till one found that the translation of the name comes close to Shangaya, Jungaya...making it a candidate for Shungwaya.
The inhabitants of the country of Chung-li go bareheaded and barefoot. They wrap a cloth around themselves but do not wear jackets. Only ministers and the king's courtiers wear jackets and turbans as a mark of distinction. The king's residence is masoned out of large bricks and slabs of stone; the people's houses are made of palm leaves and are covered with thatch. Their daily fare consists of baked flour-cakes, sheep's and cattle's milk. Cattle, sheep and camels are their big food (only eaten at special occasions)..."
4. So to sum it up, Shubgwaya is not a myth, but a kingdom or sultanate that once existed in Southern Somalia. It has been documented and confirmed by different historians, travelers, and merchannts.
5. Finally, Ibn Batuta was a renowned traveler, Islamic scholar, and a historian. After he visited Mogadishu in 1331 A.D all the way to Mombasa, he confirmed between these 2 towns were the land of Zanj (Bantu or Negro people).
Now, you can dance around all you want, you and others with limited information can deny all you want, but the existence of Shungwaya kingdom and the presence of Bantu community have been confirmed by different travelers and scholars. The oral tradition of Bajuni and J/areerweyne communities confirm this fact as well. The huge presence between Mogadishu - Mombasa has been confirmed at least 900 years ago. No Somali racists can deny that fact. Recorded history will refute any biased diarrhea that you guys posted about the history of Somali Bantu.
As for me, I rest my case as I was able to cite different scholars in such a short time.
Attachments
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Somali bantus are indeed indigenous. Respect our brothers and sisters you bigoted northern somalians
Woke1.4rm.Shibis
VIP
I remember this episode I'm glad an indigenous somali represented us on this show .
Imagine if that part was played by reer Doon binu hashim like barkhad abdi , somalis wouldve been the laughing stocks ages ago .
Imagine if that part was played by reer Doon binu hashim like barkhad abdi , somalis wouldve been the laughing stocks ages ago .
I've been "eviscerated"
Yeah, you absolutely were
--because to this moment you are still deflecting and shifting goalposts like most dishonest people who can't properly debate and have not addressed any of the following points:
- No historical Arab geographers or really any historical sources before around the 19th century clearly mention Shungwaya.
- Shungwaya being in Koonfur has been soundly debunked by scholars and even ones who used to support it like Chittick and Morton disavow it now.
- Those earlier communities you harked back to have been shown to basically be earlier assimilated slaves.
- Linguistics plainly shows Bantus were not in Koonfur before Cushites. No substratum, no nothing. Linguists who know their way around Bantu appear to even agree with this.
None of this has been or probably ever will be properly addressed by you.
Oh, boy... you don't read anything I send, do you? Just posting your nonsense and soldiering on. Morton, like Chittick, did used to think Shungwaya was legit and made claims about it being in Koonfur but he seemed to have later completely changed his mind and even doubled down on his change of heart when scholars like Chittick disagreed with him; scholars who eventually adopted the same position as him:
The Shungwaya Myth of Miji Kenda Origins: A Problem of Late Nineteenth-Century
This challenge to standing interpretations of Miji Kenda history was my first publication; it has held up pretty well.
www.academia.edu
The Cambridge History of Africa
www.google.com
This has been debunked from a western scholarship point of view by the looks of it. And is further supported by linguistics as I showed you earlier. Find another hill to die on, saaxiib.
I have to say I needed to read this point of yours at least a couple of times. This and this:
Why? Because I was completely dumbfounded that you would share sources that debunk your own argument that "Shungwaya" was in Koonfur, and particularly north of the Jubba. That Chinese source, or at least the translator's interpretation of the document, has "Tiung-lji" south of the Jubba:
Tiung-lji, if the assumption that it could be Shungwaya is true, is south of that. And Allen narrows it down as being:
And he further adds:
Do you even read your own sources?
Your own sources have debunked you like 4 times now. I think you know this and, like I said, are just a dishonest individual.
... post to be continued
... post continued
So reading comprehension on top of misrepresenting your own sources and clearly not reading mine either. "Shungwaya" itself is not a definite myth, if I'm not mistaken. The real myth is that it was in Koonfur or more specifically north of the Jubba which, hilariously, those sources you shared above seem to agree with.
Why are you still harking back to this Battuta stuff when I already addressed how not clear his description is:
?
Also, Battuta doesn't say in the quote you reference that everything south of Mogadishu and between it and Mombasa is "Zanj". Your quote just says:
And he himself says:
He doesn't state where Zanj begins in any detail. There's a point much earlier where he says the Berber (Somali) lands extend from Saylac down to Xamar but he, as far as I've seen, never tries to get very specific about where exactly Zanj begins. Though feel free to point out if I've missed where he does. Other writers before him like al-Maghribi do get very specific (right down to describing distances) and tell us the border is south of all the Banaadir towns at the mouth of the Jubba. Even the Chinese source you shared seems to jibe with this and the linguistic data agrees with them.
You're lying about reer madowweyne. I dunno what they claim nowadays but, like my friend pointed out, those earlier communities you shared being established as earlier slave assimilates from the Ajuuraan era was based in part on their own oral traditions. They did not used to claim to be native to Koonfur. As for Bajunis, no one's denying that they or other splintering groups of Bantus have probably been where they are (around the mouth of the Jubba) for some time so I dunno why you're bringing them up. Read this please:
Anyway, I'm done with this, saaxiib. I can't keep "arguing" with some nigga who literally either lies about his own sources several times or can't read that they don't agree with him and at some points even just makes things up to suit his arguments. Anyone sincere who reads whatever rebuttal you make from this point on with will look on and know you're probably doing what you've already done; lying.
One last time:
Bantus are not native to Koonfur, especially north of the Jubba, and are even predated in Kenya by Cushites. Please deal with this and have a nice day.
So reading comprehension on top of misrepresenting your own sources and clearly not reading mine either. "Shungwaya" itself is not a definite myth, if I'm not mistaken. The real myth is that it was in Koonfur or more specifically north of the Jubba which, hilariously, those sources you shared above seem to agree with.
Why are you still harking back to this Battuta stuff when I already addressed how not clear his description is:
?
Also, Battuta doesn't say in the quote you reference that everything south of Mogadishu and between it and Mombasa is "Zanj". Your quote just says:
And he himself says:
He doesn't state where Zanj begins in any detail. There's a point much earlier where he says the Berber (Somali) lands extend from Saylac down to Xamar but he, as far as I've seen, never tries to get very specific about where exactly Zanj begins. Though feel free to point out if I've missed where he does. Other writers before him like al-Maghribi do get very specific (right down to describing distances) and tell us the border is south of all the Banaadir towns at the mouth of the Jubba. Even the Chinese source you shared seems to jibe with this and the linguistic data agrees with them.
You're lying about reer madowweyne. I dunno what they claim nowadays but, like my friend pointed out, those earlier communities you shared being established as earlier slave assimilates from the Ajuuraan era was based in part on their own oral traditions. They did not used to claim to be native to Koonfur. As for Bajunis, no one's denying that they or other splintering groups of Bantus have probably been where they are (around the mouth of the Jubba) for some time so I dunno why you're bringing them up. Read this please:
Anyway, I'm done with this, saaxiib. I can't keep "arguing" with some nigga who literally either lies about his own sources several times or can't read that they don't agree with him and at some points even just makes things up to suit his arguments. Anyone sincere who reads whatever rebuttal you make from this point on with will look on and know you're probably doing what you've already done; lying.
One last time:
Bantus are not native to Koonfur, especially north of the Jubba, and are even predated in Kenya by Cushites. Please deal with this and have a nice day.
No scholarly debunked my claims. They were in different eras, all of them documented the existence of Shungwaya. And I only glimpse over what you wrote. I did that because once I know the person isn't coming from an academic point of view nor even willing to look at the source and read the material before them in an objective matter, his (or her) gibberish makes no sense to me, and I hardly spend time on their 'claims'.
For those who are willing to read and understand what different historians and philosophers wrote about Shubgwaya and the presence of Ja\reerweyne in Southern Somalia, I would encourage them to read the work of these historians, philosophers, travelers, and what is recorded in archives in different countries:
1. I. M. Lewis
2. E. R. TURTON
3. R.F Morton
4. James De V Allen
5. British and Dutch Maps
6. Portuguese Arhives
7. Chinese historian and politician Chao Ju-kua during the Sung dynasty (1170–1231)
8. Moroccan Muslim scholar Ibn Batuta (1304 - 1377 AD)
What really stands out what Ibn Batuta (rahihumullah) documented in year of 1331 AD ( that is 900 years ago:
This Muslim scholar and traveler had documented between Mogadishu and Mombasa was the land of Zanj people (Bantu people). The only place he mentioned about Somalis was Mogadishu. From that point to Mombasa, he clearly stated it was the land of Zanj (Bantu people).
Now, no amount of gibberish or giggles thrown around by some characters online would never be able to change it. History is recorded and not invented!!!
For those who are willing to read and understand what different historians and philosophers wrote about Shubgwaya and the presence of Ja\reerweyne in Southern Somalia, I would encourage them to read the work of these historians, philosophers, travelers, and what is recorded in archives in different countries:
1. I. M. Lewis
2. E. R. TURTON
3. R.F Morton
4. James De V Allen
5. British and Dutch Maps
6. Portuguese Arhives
7. Chinese historian and politician Chao Ju-kua during the Sung dynasty (1170–1231)
8. Moroccan Muslim scholar Ibn Batuta (1304 - 1377 AD)
What really stands out what Ibn Batuta (rahihumullah) documented in year of 1331 AD ( that is 900 years ago:
This Muslim scholar and traveler had documented between Mogadishu and Mombasa was the land of Zanj people (Bantu people). The only place he mentioned about Somalis was Mogadishu. From that point to Mombasa, he clearly stated it was the land of Zanj (Bantu people).
Now, no amount of gibberish or giggles thrown around by some characters online would never be able to change it. History is recorded and not invented!!!
Yeah, you absolutely were
-because to this moment you are still deflecting and shifting goalposts like most dishonest people who can't properly debate and have not addressed any of the following points:
- No historical Arab geographers or really any historical sources before around the 19th century clearly mention Shungwaya.
- Shungwaya being in Koonfur has been soundly debunked by scholars and even ones who used to support it like Chittick and Morton disavow it now.
- Those earlier communities you harked back to have been shown to basically be earlier assimilated slaves.
- Linguistics plainly shows Bantus were not in Koonfur before Cushites. No substratum, no nothing. Linguists who know their way around Bantu appear to even agree with this.
None of this has been or probably ever will be properly addressed by you.
Oh, boy... you don't read anything I send, do you? Just posting your nonsense and soldiering on. Morton, like Chittick, did used to think Shungwaya was legit and made claims about it being in Koonfur but he seemed to have later completely changed his mind and even doubled down on his change of heart when scholars like Chittick disagreed with him; scholars who eventually adopted the same position as him:
The Shungwaya Myth of Miji Kenda Origins: A Problem of Late Nineteenth-Century
This challenge to standing interpretations of Miji Kenda history was my first publication; it has held up pretty well.www.academia.edu
The Cambridge History of Africa
www.google.com
This has been debunked from a western scholarship point of view by the looks of it. And is further supported by linguistics as I showed you earlier. Find another hill to die on, saaxiib.
I have to say I needed to read this point of yours at least a couple of times. This and this:
Why? Because I was completely dumbfounded that you would share sources that debunk your own argument that "Shungwaya" was in Koonfur, and particularly north of the Jubba. That Chinese source, or at least the translator's interpretation of the document, has "Tiung-lji" south of the Jubba:
Tiung-lji, if the assumption that it could be Shungwaya is true, is south of that. And Allen narrows it down as being:
And he further adds:
Do you even read your own sources?
Your own sources have debunked you like 4 times now. I think you know this and, like I said, are just a dishonest individual.
... post to be continued
You should really read what I wrote because it's hilarious how you used sources that legit debunk what you claim. Your own sources debunk you, saaxiib. I'm dumbfounded. All of the following directly contradict everything you claim:
1. I. M. Lewis
2. E. R. TURTON
3. R.F Morton
4. James De V Allen
5. British and Dutch Maps
6. Portuguese Arhives
7. Chinese historian and politician Chao Ju-kua during the Sung dynasty (1170–1231)
8. Muslim scholar Ibn Batuta
And the British, Dutch and Portuguese claims come from Morton who later completely pulled a 180 on Shungwaya being in Koonfur and doubled down on it:
The Shungwaya Myth of Miji Kenda Origins: A Problem of Late Nineteenth-Century
This challenge to standing interpretations of Miji Kenda history was my first publication; it has held up pretty well.
www.academia.edu
You are such a goddamned clown that you didn't even notice or realize this. It is clear you don't read your own sources let alone what I write. I bet if I did any amount of scrutinizing on Turton or Lewis I'd find the same. But either way, it is true that western scholars now seem to fully agree that Shungwaya was not in Koonfur and your Chinese sources prove the same (kek) and you keep idiotically repeating BATTUTA like that helps you.
Keep clowning, clown. I'm done with this retardation.
Update:
Someone chimed in on Turton and Bajunis in private to me:
Astaghfirullah... you deserve some sort of award for lying and clowning about. Again:
Keep clowning, clown. I'm done with this retardation.
Last edited:
Mordern scholars examination and refutation of Bantu prescence in Southern Somalia.
If you look at all the available evidences the Somali peninsuala was virtually uninhabited when Somalis started populating it excepts for some paleolithic groups that went extinct without much interraction. And the earliest traces are of only Somali groups in documentated records, linguistics, traditions and even archealogy is of early Somali groups prior to any group.
I don't even have to mention genetics to support my argument that Bantu expansion never reached Somalia , that pretty much ligns up up with the linguistic paper @Shimbiris linked:
www.nature.com
If you look at all the available evidences the Somali peninsuala was virtually uninhabited when Somalis started populating it excepts for some paleolithic groups that went extinct without much interraction. And the earliest traces are of only Somali groups in documentated records, linguistics, traditions and even archealogy is of early Somali groups prior to any group.
I don't even have to mention genetics to support my argument that Bantu expansion never reached Somalia , that pretty much ligns up up with the linguistic paper @Shimbiris linked:
High frequencies of Y chromosome lineages characterized by E3b1, DYS19-11, DYS392-12 in Somali males - European Journal of Human Genetics
We genotyped 45 biallelic markers and 11 STR systems on the Y chromosome in 201 male Somalis. In addition, 65 sub-Saharan Western Africans, 59 Turks and 64 Iraqis were typed for the biallelic Y chromosome markers. In Somalis, 14 Y chromosome haplogroups were identified including E3b1 (77.6%) and...
www.nature.com
Lmaaoo if there would be differences between Abgaals and Isaaq in appearances then those would only be climatic regional differences not in ethnicity or ancestry.
And its true and not a myth Somalis are relatively homogenous when it comes to their ancestry , with roots in ancient admixture . From a 2020 study:
Our data reveal a remarkably homogeneous Somali population with roots from ancient mixtures of populations from Africa and the Middle East. We observed that a vast majority of our study individuals carried similar proportions of genes from those ancient populations, which possibly can be explained by the fact that ethnic Somalis have a strong genetic unification by endogamy, due to the custom of marrying only within the limits of their ethnic group, in addition to consanguineous practices
Genome-wide analyses disclose the distinctive HLA architecture and the pharmacogenetic landscape of the Somali population - Scientific Reports
African populations are underrepresented in medical genomics studies. For the Somali population, there is virtually no information on genomic markers with significance to precision medicine. Here, we analyzed nearly 900,000 genomic markers in samples collected from 95 unrelated individuals in...
www.nature.com
But this has zero to do with anything Nationalistic or ideological though which people try to press against it has more to do with how Somalis intermarried a lot with eachother across a large landscape and built marriage alliances between clans which created a common shared somatic -cultural features. It just a reality.
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