The Golden Age of Islam

[Lord Flacko]

If you took your Saudi boyfriend's cock out of your anal cavity, wiped the semen off your posterior, and pulled your pants up my little rabbit, you would see that this thread is about Shariah Law, caliphates, and the Sahaba whose society is considered to be the ideal form of social organization and whose piety is considered the greatest of all Muslims, hence the golden age in my thread's title, not the third Muslim Empire which just happens to coincidentally share the label golden age.

Now, aren't you the spotty kid who used to have DMX chugging a bottle of whisky as a DP? I preferred you when you were a hip hop guy than a cod-theologian.

"Oops I just spoke about another Islamic Golden Age that incidentally shared a name with the actual Islam Golden Age my fault guys"



If you weren't so dumb you'd have given up and corrected yourself at your first reply to me but instead you went on hammering about your own definition of a term you now say you co opted




I still can't get over how you took a look at the expansion of the Rashidun Caliphate and called it unstable because uprisings by bedouin kuffars claiming to be following a new prophet after the death of Muhammad PBUH were rightfully quashed

 

[Yonis]

OP seems to be very historically ignorant, the rashidun caliphate ended 2 centuries before what is considered to be the islamic golden, which essentially a period under the abbassid caliphate + the ummayads of Spain

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Cognitivedissonance @Bidaar Wanagsan I am simply saying I refuse to accept a god that is interpreted to me by my fellow man who is limited as I am. I will never accept it because how can someone who is 'limited' or 'finite' cause lets be honest our brains are not 'infinite' it's not as big as god can explain something who has the characteristics of 'infinity'? It's just not merely possible. But what we can do among ourselves is see who has the closest interpretation to reason and intellect and reason and intellect will change over the course of time. I honestly will be ashamed if our future generation 500 years from now, just refer back to us for all the answers. I want them to carry on and find better answers then we could because we were limited to our time period, brain power, technology, access to information. I expect the future generation to over-throw our way of living and find better ways of living.

I feel this infinite god doesn't judge people equally but according to their time period. The judgment for the 7th century will be relevant to the 7th century and what they had in terms of knowledge. But in the 21st century well this class room is going to be judged relatively to it's time period as things have changed for them. But if you think Allah will judge all the ummah as one class from the beginning to the end, then you must in some state of wishful dreaming, for even humans do not judge in that manner and your telling me god who is far more intelligent then us does?

Me and @Bidaar Wanagsan are going to annihilate all your physical idolatry, your mental idolatry, your emotional idolatry and teach you that u r an arrogant shaydhan who wants to idolize a god that suits your desires like satan wanted god to accept his position on adam notice he is telling god what he wants him to do, where-as we don't tell god what he is, and your saying were wrong. We say simply, we will let god decide who god is and it's not for us pittyful humans to describe him for we dont even describe other people so how can we describe god. We refuse to accept arrogance when it comes to god and simply submit without any 'desires, no good or bad deeds, no anything' we simply accept god on his terms not our own terms.

 

[DR OSMAN]

I mean imagine your children, do you judge your 5 year old child the same way you judge your 12 year old child? Of course not, you adjust the judgment according to the child and it's ability. Are you going to sit there and speak with a 5 year old and discuss things at your capacity or will you lower yourself down to that 5 year old? That's how I see things with god, I feel god knows we are basically like children in intelligence to him and has to come down to our level, however there are some children who actually think just because god came down to our level to communicate he must be 'confined' to that level for eternity. No sxb, that is totally wrong or you would have to say a father who speaks to his child is now confined to what the child interprets the father is. So a 5 year old could view his dad as some teddy bear and say hey dad your a teddy bear to me and we must now all accept that interpretation but we know full well the father is not a teddy bear even at a human level yet we assume god is now limited to simply what is in the quran.

I infact think all religions have a part of the truth but gets washed away with dogma, rituals, no growth in intelligence. Because if God is infinite everything that occurs below him he must know about or else how can he be god? are u saying there is another god that has ordained all these different faiths? of course u cant say that since god comprises of everything and anything good and bad yet still above it and limited to it like we are.

Please follow us on our spiritual journey towards the real islam, the islam of the inner self not the physical realm for the physical realm as u can see with all the caliphates and every empire is eating the sands of time buried deeply but their souls is the only thing that returns to god. So why aren't we focussing on our souls and our eyes a fixated towards what we see. The soul is a massive battle, don't think it is a light matter sxb. Can u walk thru two lions holding onto faith for god? if you can't why are u praying for u cant even get passed the preliminary stages, your prayers are pretty worthless if your faith isn't as strong as people like abraham who were willing to sacrifice his child for god, that's what u call faith. Can you sacrifice everything u love for god like abraham did? can u conquer your feelings and imagine a god that isn't described by you but accepting he is what he wants to be? Then why are u wasting your time with beards, hijabs, and good deeds all day sxb you cant even pass the first stages.

 

[Cognitivedissonance]

@Cognitivedissonance @Bidaar Wanagsan I am simply saying I refuse to accept a god that is interpreted to me by my fellow man who is limited as I am. I will never accept it because how can someone who is 'limited' or 'finite' cause lets be honest our brains are not 'infinite' it's not as big as god can explain something who has the characteristics of 'infinity'? It's just not merely possible. But what we can do among ourselves is see who has the closest interpretation to reason and intellect and reason and intellect will change over the course of time. I honestly will be ashamed if our future generation 500 years from now, just refer back to us for all the answers. I want them to carry on and find better answers then we could because we were limited to our time period, brain power, technology, access to information. I expect the future generation to over-throw our way of living and find better ways of living.

I feel this infinite god doesn't judge people equally but according to their time period. The judgment for the 7th century will be relevant to the 7th century and what they had in terms of knowledge. But in the 21st century well this class room is going to be judged relatively to it's time period as things have changed for them. But if you think Allah will judge all the ummah as one class from the beginning to the end, then you must in some state of wishful dreaming, for even humans do not judge in that manner and your telling me god who is far more intelligent then us does?

Me and @Bidaar Wanagsan are going to annihilate all your physical idolatry, your mental idolatry, your emotional idolatry and teach you that u r an arrogant shaydhan who wants to idolize a god that suits your desires like satan wanted god to accept his position on adam notice he is telling god what he wants him to do, where-as we don't tell god what he is, and your saying were wrong. We say simply, we will let god decide who god is and it's not for us pittyful humans to describe him for we dont even describe other people so how can we describe god. We refuse to accept arrogance when it comes to god and simply submit without any 'desires, no good or bad deeds, no anything' we simply accept god on his terms not our own terms.

You’re not a Muslim if you don’t adhere to the shariah

 

[Cognitivedissonance]

I mean imagine your children, do you judge your 5 year old child the same way you judge your 12 year old child? Of course not, you adjust the judgment according to the child and it's ability. Are you going to sit there and speak with a 5 year old and discuss things at your capacity or will you lower yourself down to that 5 year old? That's how I see things with god, I feel god knows we are basically like children in intelligence to him and has to come down to our level, however there are some children who actually think just because god came down to our level to communicate he must be 'confined' to that level for eternity. No sxb, that is totally wrong or you would have to say a father who speaks to his child is now confined to what the child interprets the father is. So a 5 year old could view his dad as some teddy bear and say hey dad your a teddy bear to me and we must now all accept that interpretation but we know full well the father is not a teddy bear even at a human level yet we assume god is now limited to simply what is in the quran.

I infact think all religions have a part of the truth but gets washed away with dogma, rituals, no growth in intelligence. Because if God is infinite everything that occurs below him he must know about or else how can he be god? are u saying there is another god that has ordained all these different faiths? of course u cant say that since god comprises of everything and anything good and bad yet still above it and limited to it like we are.

Please follow us on our spiritual journey towards the real islam, the islam of the inner self not the physical realm for the physical realm as u can see with all the caliphates and every empire is eating the sands of time buried deeply but their souls is the only thing that returns to god. So why aren't we focussing on our souls and our eyes a fixated towards what we see. The soul is a massive battle, don't think it is a light matter sxb. Can u walk thru two lions holding onto faith for god? if you can't why are u praying for u cant even get passed the preliminary stages, your prayers are pretty worthless if your faith isn't as strong as people like abraham who were willing to sacrifice his child for god, that's what u call faith. Can you sacrifice everything u love for god like abraham did? can u conquer your feelings and imagine a god that isn't described by you but accepting he is what he wants to be? Then why are u wasting your time with beards, hijabs, and good deeds all day sxb you cant even pass the first stages.

People like Abraham? Abraham isn’t just anybody he’s Allah friend a prophet of Allah no man can compete with him

 

[DR OSMAN]

You’re not a Muslim if you don’t adhere to the shariah

Shariah of what, the physical parts like beards, hijabs, laws, etc that eventually get thrown away or gets buried inside the earth for future generations to excavate, if your saying Im not that type of muslim, most definitely your right there. I am not here to prove myself to fellow limited human beings, it's not like I am going to them when I die. You see why I don't care if they consider me Muslim or not. I am very different to your type of islam sxb, I feel I hold the real islam, the one that actually matters while u hold the fake islam that cares for things that get thrown out and buried in the sands of time.

U sound like a Muslim that just is a muslim for the sake of convenience, maybe family, maybe society, but I doubt it's for any genuine reason cause I've not yet heard u say anything convincing other then copy n pasting verses. I don't care for verses sxb, I care for the over-all message and that's it.

I mean why do you do good deeds? is it for allah? how can allah want anything unless he is limited like you are and if that's the case then it must be a god of your own imagination and mind which is idolatry creating an image of god and telling him what U think he is. I mean how can u say 'you love allah' for how can u love something unless you already have an image of what he is in your mind? I don't say I love Allah or Hate Allah, for I will not create an image of him to suit my desires. I simply humbly surrender for I am the weak one and he is the infinitely strong. A weak man can't find something a billion times stronger then him unless the stronger one actually finds me and hence why I submit only with no arrogance, with no trading my good deeds and bad deeds like it's a business transaction.

 

[Bidaar Wanagsan]

OP seems to be very historically ignorant, the rashidun caliphate ended 2 centuries before what is considered to be the islamic golden, which essentially a period under the abbassid caliphate + the ummayads of Spain

The only golden age is the time of the beloved Messenger (Allah's peace and blessings be upon him and his family and his noble companions). Only a kafir would deny that. The second greatest leaders were those who broke bread with him, the Sahaba.

The other so-called Golden Age (in upper case letters) is a Western contrivance that celebrates decadent Arab dictators who fought amongst each other for worldly gain in a style no different from the Arab dictators of today. The Ummayads fought the Abbasids, the Abbasids fought the Seljuks, the Seljuks fought the Fatamids, the Fatamids fought the Ayyubids.

The "Golden Age" is not about the triumphs of Muslims at all. It is about the triumphs of Arab dynasties and kingdoms. Somalis, Indonesians, and Pakistanis had nothing to do with it. It is Arab history, including the history of Arab Christians and Jews who worked for the Caliphs like Maimonides and who were as much responsible for keeping alive Greek science and philosophy on which Arabs built. BTW, since when did translating un-Islamic European philosophers like Plato and Aristotle become a virtue among Shariah supporters who despise philosophy and European culture? I didn't know European philosophy was part of the Quran and Sunnah.

Bragging about Arab history is the equivalent of a Nigerian Christian bragging about the "Golden Age of Christians" in science and philosophy when he really means the Golden Age of Europeans. Black Muslims played as much part in Arab civilization as black Christians did in European civilization. Except as slaves of Arabs.

Confident Muslims with a proud history of their own like Turks look down on Arab history. They are proud of their own empire which colonized Arabs. It's only Africans without achievements of their own who feel the need to hitch their wagon to Arab history. Stop parting your ass cheeks for Arab penetration and show some African dignity.

 

[Bidaar Wanagsan]

"Oops I just spoke about another Islamic Golden Age that incidentally shared a name with the actual Islam Golden Age my fault guys"



If you weren't so dumb you'd have given up and corrected yourself at your first reply to me but instead you went on hammering about your own definition of a term you now say you co opted




I still can't get over how you took a look at the expansion of the Rashidun Caliphate and called it unstable because uprisings by bedouin kuffars claiming to be following a new prophet after the death of Muhammad PBUH were rightfully quashed

You're adorable.

Was Aisha following false prophets when she sided with the Sahaba waging war on Ali Ibn Abi Talib?

And if the Abbasids were so grand, why did they collapse? How were they able to be subdued by illiterate Mongolian nomads who took their women as sex slaves? Nothing to do with their corrupt, disunited, and inefficient system no doubt.

 

[Lord Flacko]

You're adorable.

Was Aisha following false prophets when she sided with the Sahaba waging war on Ali Ibn Abi Talib?

Nigga are u fucking dumb

I quash your fallacious attempt at branding the the defeat of a few munafiq bedouin claiming their own new prophets after the death of Muhammad PBUH as "unjust instability" then you answer with yeahwhataboutthisthen?

And if the Abbasids were so grand, why did they collapse? How were they able to be subdued by illiterate Mongolian nomads who took their women as sex slaves? Nothing to do with their corrupt, disunited, and inefficient system no doubt.

Can't get enough of this idiot spouting shit so confidently

And if the Abbasids were so grand, why did they collapse?

Because nothing is eternal except for Allah. Everything will fall or subside eventually. But that doesn't mean they weren't great, that arguement is fucking retarded. That's like if you claim the 90s Bulls weren't a good team because they aren't anymore.

Or in your case it would be me saying the Rashidun wasn't shit because they collapsed.

How were they able to be subdued by illiterate Mongolian nomads who took their women as sex slaves?

I'd reckon you don't need to be literate to siege and completely burn down a city and one of the greatest collections of knowledge in human history. You just need a lot of manpower and weapons.

Nothing to do with their corrupt, disunited, and inefficient system no doubt.

Nazi Germany was united, noncorrupt with one of the greatest and efficient system at the time and they ended up slaughtered by the Soviets with their women raped. Greater military power can't be stopped by the nonvariables you listed. Nor are they even truthful or do matter for that sake.

 

[Bidaar Wanagsan]

Nigga are u fucking dumb

I quash your fallacious attempt at branding the the defeat of a few munafiq bedouin claiming their own new prophets after the death of Muhammad PBUH as "unjust instability" then you answer with yeahwhataboutthisthen?



Can't get enough of this idiot spouting shit so confidently


Because nothing is eternal except for Allah. Everything will fall or subside eventually. But that doesn't mean they weren't great, that arguement is fucking retarded. That's like if you claim the 90s Bulls weren't a good team because they aren't anymore.

Or in your case it would be me saying the Rashidun wasn't shit because they collapsed.



I'd reckon you don't need to be literate to siege and completely burn down a city and one of the greatest collections of knowledge in human history. You just need a lot of manpower and weapons.

Nazi Germany was united, noncorrupt with one of the greatest and efficient system at the time and they ended up slaughtered by the Soviets with their women raped. Greater military power can't be stopped by the nonvariables you listed. Nor are they even truthful or do matter for that sake.

You're comparing the Abassids to Nazi Germany? I'm not sure Hitler is gonna do much to improve its public relations habibi.

Hitler was not corrupt? Alla beerka iyo wadnaha. I guess genocidal dictators are morally upright then. Germany didn't have disunity? Sure, the Night of the Long Knives didn't happen at all.

The USSR was not an illiterate bunch of nomads like the Mongols. It was an industrial power with the biggest landmass in the world. It was also supported by the Allied powers in WW2. Your historical analogies are impressive for the comical regularity with which they overshoot the mark. I'm beginning to like you kid. You have the gift of being unintentionally funny.

 

[Lord Flacko]

[

You're comparing the Abassids to Nazi Germany? I'm not sure Hitler is gonna do much to improve its public relations habibi.

Hitler was not corrupt? Alla beerka iyo wadnaha. I guess genocidal dictators are morally upright then.

Corrupt and morally corrupt are two different things. You go from fallacious arguments to putting words in my mouth then attacking them. You're dishonest in everything you write.

Germany didn't have disunity? Sure, the Night of the Long Knives didn't happen at all.

Did I say the Nazi Party never were in disunity or did I say Nazi Germany, especially when war rolled in, was pretty much in complete unity? The populace supported Hitler through and through. Him killing 85 people within his own party the year after consolidating power doesn't have anything to do with that.

The USSR was not an illiterate bunch of nomads like the Mongols. It was an industrial power with the biggest landmass in the world. It was also supported by the Allied powers in WW2.

Let's put that in historical terms. Ignoring "the support of the Allies" because the Allies didn't do shit on the Eastern front nor helped the USSR, they only divided up conquered Germany together.

The USSR held a bigger landmass than Nazi Germany (the largest at the time)
The Mongols held a bigger land mass than the Abbasids (the largest at the time)

The USSR didn't have better weapons than Nazi Germany but had more coupled with the largest standing army
The Mongols didn't have the better weapons than the Abbasids per se but had more coupled with the largest standing army

Saying the Mongols were "just a bunch of illiterate nomads" is a disservice, dishonest and paints the wrong picture. But then again all your arguments rely on you controlling the discussion instead of engaging in it. Everything from fallacies, intentionally misleading arguements, redefining definitions, irrelevant whatabouttgisthen to willful hypocrisy and ignoranc is all a part of your game.

 

[Lord Flacko]

Muslims with a proud history of their own like Turks look down on Arab history. They are proud of their own empire which colonized Arabs. It's only Africans without achievements of their own who feel the need to hitch their wagon to Arab history. Stop parting your ass cheeks for Arab penetration and show some African dignity.

We only parting our ass cheeks for Europeans right?

Somalia got independence too early. So did Africa. We didn't have the human capital to build a modern society. We were barely out of the bush. A few more decades of benign European stewardship would have instilled the civilised democratic ethos and accountability that we need.

 

[Bidaar Wanagsan]

[





Corrupt and morally corrupt are two different things. You go from fallacious arguments to putting words in my mouth then attacking them. You're dishonest in everything you write.


Did I say the Nazi Party never were in disunity or did I say Nazi Germany, especially when war rolled in, was pretty much in complete unity? The populace supported Hitler through and through. Him killing 85 people within his own party the year after consolidating power doesn't have anything to do with that.


Let's put that in historical terms. Ignoring "the support of the Allies" because the Allies didn't do shit on the Eastern front nor helped the USSR, they only divided up conquered Germany together.

The USSR held a bigger landmass than Nazi Germany (the largest at the time)
The Mongols held a bigger land mass than the Abbasids (the largest at the time)

The USSR didn't have better weapons than Nazi Germany but had more coupled with the largest standing army
The Mongols didn't have the better weapons than the Abbasids per se but had more coupled with the largest standing army

Saying the Mongols were "just a bunch of illiterate nomads" is a disservice, dishonest and paints the wrong picture. But then again all your arguments rely on you controlling the discussion instead of engaging in it. Everything from fallacies, intentionally misleading arguements, redefining definitions, irrelevant whatabouttgisthen to willful hypocrisy and ignoranc is all a part of your game.

You're defecating out of your mouth again adeer. It was wise of you to ignore my assertion that the USSR was an industrial power whilst the Mongols were nomads. It's a good debating tactic to pretend that others won't notice. But I can assure you Mr Wanagsan will. The Mongols were not even literate. Which is why they destroyed the library of Baghdad, instead of hauling its books for their own use as the Arabs did when they colonized Europeans. Your comparison is not even wrong. There's no adjective for such polemical sleights of hand.

The Soviet Union would have collapsed if not for supplies from the United States. They depended on the US for fuel, trucks, boots, and arms. To say the Allies didn't do shit tells me all I need to know about the depths of your historical knowledge.

And then there's the small little matter of the Allies keeping Hitler's forces busy in the Western front. I don't think Hitler was as dismissive of the liberation of Western Europe.

So you did a little Googling and discovered that Hitler wasn't beloved by all Nazis as you claimed before? I studied the Third Reich as a postgraduate student, but even I don't remember the exact figure of Nazis killed in the Night of the Long Knives. It's a small detail in a long story. The fact you came up with a precise number tells me that it's a copy and paste job. Way to give away your newfound discovery kid. I'm dealing with an amateur debator here.

I'm chuckling at the fact you've had to resort to leaving this thread, going into the archives, and digging up my comments about colonialism to justify hitching your wagon to Arab history which is falsely sold as Islamic history. Jooji dameernimada warya. I'm not the one saying Europeans are Islamic and will solve all our problems. I could have chosen any other civilization to illustrate my point about African backwardness. For example the Chinese invented paper and gunpowder. The Aztecs invented open heart surgery. Indians invented advanced mathematics. They were all civilizationally superior to Africans, and continue to be superior.

But it doesn't mean that Indians, Chinese, and Mexicans of the past lived in a Golden Age superior to modern Indians, Chinese, and Mexicans. They were governed by warlords and dictators just like the Arab warlords and dictators of the past you venerate. They're forging a golden age for the 21st century which is what Muslims should be doing. Not bragging about how their tyrannical ancestors were, like, soooo cool.