What the Ethiopians did in Mogadishu was insane. Not only did they dethrone a legitimate, popular, function moderate local government but they also killed thousands in the process only for their president to lift his arms in the air and run back to his enclave. A real role model of leadership.
Shell-Shocked
This 113-page report is the first independent, on-the-ground investigation of the fighting that wracked Mogadishu in March and April 2007, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of civilians and the displacement of 400,000 people. Ethiopian, Somali and insurgent forces are all responsible for...www.hrw.org
I've always said they're the cancer of Somalia, the double dipping, two faced stealth secessionists. I'm laughing at their empty threats of secession. There's nothing they can do to reverse it and I love it.
The birth of the 3rd Republic
- Thread starter Abaq
- Start date
Abaq
VIP
A few things to correct @Angelina here.
Firstly, yes AY was the President of the TFG at the time when the Ethiopians entered the country. However, his PM was Cali Geedi, an Abgaal Hawiye man who had just as much of a role in this as AY.
Secondly, the TFG was the legitimate recognised government of Somalia. When the ICU (who i hold were terrorists) took control of the country, they took control from the warlords who were actively preventing the TFG from establishing itself in the capital and functioning. When the ICU took over, the TFG tried multiple times to have peace talks with the ICU and to even share the government with them. The ICU responded by attempting to invade the temporary capital at Baidoa. The TFG acted in self defence and had every right to do so as the legitimate governemnt of Somalia.
Thirdly, the ICU was a mixed bag. You had genuine islamists who wanted real governance such as Sh Sharif - they ultimately joined the government. However, the majority were total terrorists who all deserved capital punishment. You also had mooryaan who were using the ICU and the Islamists to further their clannish agenda. Precvisely, the Cayr clan of Habar Gedir was using the ICU and later ICU to further their clan agenda. This is still the case as Cayr continue to hold high positions in AS especially in the finance division. It is well known that AS invests the tax it collects from all of Somalia in Xamar and east Africa in Cayr businesses (the US recently sanctioned Cayr businesses in Kenya and Uganda who were fronts for AS investment arm). Cali Geedi himself reported how Cayr point blank refused any governance in Somalia when they held a meeting with him when he visited Xamar before ICU even took over. It was then he promised to bring Ethiopian tanks to Bakaaraha to shatter their arrogance and mooryaanimo.
You can hear it all here directly from former PM Cali Geedi himself
Firstly, yes AY was the President of the TFG at the time when the Ethiopians entered the country. However, his PM was Cali Geedi, an Abgaal Hawiye man who had just as much of a role in this as AY.
Secondly, the TFG was the legitimate recognised government of Somalia. When the ICU (who i hold were terrorists) took control of the country, they took control from the warlords who were actively preventing the TFG from establishing itself in the capital and functioning. When the ICU took over, the TFG tried multiple times to have peace talks with the ICU and to even share the government with them. The ICU responded by attempting to invade the temporary capital at Baidoa. The TFG acted in self defence and had every right to do so as the legitimate governemnt of Somalia.
Thirdly, the ICU was a mixed bag. You had genuine islamists who wanted real governance such as Sh Sharif - they ultimately joined the government. However, the majority were total terrorists who all deserved capital punishment. You also had mooryaan who were using the ICU and the Islamists to further their clannish agenda. Precvisely, the Cayr clan of Habar Gedir was using the ICU and later ICU to further their clan agenda. This is still the case as Cayr continue to hold high positions in AS especially in the finance division. It is well known that AS invests the tax it collects from all of Somalia in Xamar and east Africa in Cayr businesses (the US recently sanctioned Cayr businesses in Kenya and Uganda who were fronts for AS investment arm). Cali Geedi himself reported how Cayr point blank refused any governance in Somalia when they held a meeting with him when he visited Xamar before ICU even took over. It was then he promised to bring Ethiopian tanks to Bakaaraha to shatter their arrogance and mooryaanimo.
You can hear it all here directly from former PM Cali Geedi himself
Morgan, the man that authorized fighter jets against Isaaqs whilst his militias abused and r-worded the locals.
For all of Mjs talks of Hawiye moryans, this man takes the crown.
Morganβs right hand man was dhagawayne who is also Isaaq but he lives freely in Hargeisa. Sounds a lot like AY and Geedi. Also, SNM were bunch of cowards who used their people as human shields.
Only the mentally ill use words like βhuman shieldsβ. You sound like a Zionist.
I really couldnβt care less if they do secede. I mean every few yrs theyβre threatening to like ciyaal. They need to make up their minds.
Walaal, it is called being the political conscience of the nation to prevent dictatorship, and return to the 80s & 90s. Surely you could see the value in that.
Thereβs no reasoning with these folks sxb their cuqdad for majeerteen blinds them from the truth
A Mean Guy
Minister of Ajanabi Affairs
This has to be one of the worse point you have ever made. I normally agree with you but this is not it.
"Ethiopians were going to invade anyways so i just invited them over to not delay the inevitable "
"You were already dying from blood loss, so I chose to end your suffering by mercy-killing you."
See how dumb that sounds. So many Somalis suffered because of those barbaric foreign soldiers and since AS was actively fighting against them, people saw them as their saviours leading to AS gaining more power.
You can acknowledge the anarchy in Somalia without justifying the wrong decisions made by our leaders at that time.
AY just like shariif and the rest of these incompetent leaders will be held accountable on the day of Qiyamah for their actions that lead to the deaths of countless lives. They will need to justify their decisions in front of the All mighty.
I honestly hate how weak Deni is. He is constantly on the losing end of all his political battles. I can already see SL taking advantage of this mess and trying to ally with him. I just hope this time, he has enough wrinkles on his brain see right through their game.
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Your point is baseless
Even ignoring the fact that Somalia was not ruled by some absolute MJ monarchy in 2006 but it instead was headed by a MJ President and an Abgaal PM; the Ethiopians were forced into invading Somalia by the Americans. We know this thanks to the Wikileak cables on the Ethiopian invasion.
Meles Zenawi was very reluctant to get involved even when ICU were threatening Ethiopia, but was heavily pressured by the Americans behind the scenes with threats of cutting aid. This was at the height of the war on terror and the Americans would never have tolerated the ICU toppling the internationally recognised TFG government and ruling the country.
WikiLeaks Reveals U.S. Twisted Ethiopia's Arm to Invade Somalia - FPIF
Even though Washington claims to have counseled Ethiopia not to use military force against Somalia.
fpif.org
The idea that Ethiopians invaded Somalia at the invitation of a single clan as claimed by some has always been absolutely ridiculous but to see this repeated after everything that has come out is laughable.
Also, I donβt see what this has to do with Puntlanders exercising their right to oppose this blatant and shameless attempt by a hostile regime to trample on agreed principles and abuse itβs authority.
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Mujaahid general Morgan shurunshur uleeye, the man who chased your adeer caydiid and his ogaden lackeys from the jubbas
Iβm sorry to have bursted your bubble . Your kind will not succeed in rewriting history.
Imagine if ICU was successful in their "Jihaad" on Puntland, what would have happened then? Or do our lives not matter? What do you think "Jihaad" means?
But this callous disregard for any life, that isn't a Hawiye life, is our fault, because anaga idin barnay that we allow ourselves to be ethnically cleansed, such as the 1991 ethnic cleansing campaign, without any xisaabtan. Instead of taking people to task for it, our leaders, sit there and think about how to gain power at our expense.
That is what I blame AY (AUN) for, the very fact, that he tried to reconcile after 1991, when he and other leaders, should have left this nightmare country. He should have declared independence for Puntland in 1998, and then chucked up the deuces.
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A very good question.
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HSM is not even capable of building a consensus within his own tribe, and his former Badbaado Qaran allies, have abandoned him. But his fans are treating this as a 'gotcha' moment, when in reality, Puntland will wait until his term is over, and he will be replaced. In the meantime, Puntland will continue with its development projects and nothing much will change, except for foreign dignitaries flying back and forth, and writing threatening letters.
A Mean Guy
Minister of Ajanabi Affairs
When did I say those lives do not matter? The ICU was getting a too big for its boots but inviting foreign troops also lead to AS gaining more power than they should have.
Both can be true. They are not mutually exclusive,
All sides are scarred by the past actions and are unwilling to move on.
That approach wouldn't have been effective. SL attempted it, and their current situation is a testament to its failure. They went as far as targeting the emotional side of the West, asserting themselves as victims of genocide, but all their efforts proved futile.
I don't even see this constitution debacle as a huge issue, surely Puntland can just ignore it for the next 2 years until election seasons comes. I highly doubt HSM is winning another term.
I don't agree with forcing people into anything. And I don't agree with the murder of innocents.
The ideal scenario would have been for ICU and Puntland to meet, and to agree to leave each other alone.
That said, the TFG WAS formed with the consent of local stakeholders, and the most powerful politicians and elders of South-Central Somalia ushered in the new government. The President was MJ, the PM was Abgaal, and the parliament was Somaliweyn. So, I'd like to see people dish out blame and thanks evenly, instead of trying to throw it at our feet.
As for HSM and this constitution uu soo dhabooqay, we can ignore it and him, until his term ends. But if it was up to me? I'd exit NOW.
A Mean Guy
Minister of Ajanabi Affairs
I definitely was not implying that Puntland was responsible. I hope you have not misunderstood me. There were too many variables and people involved to solely put the blame on one person or entity.
Moreover, secession creates an imbalanced power dynamic in negotiations with other entities. Recognising the potential losses associated with secession, counterparts may exploit this vulnerability, leaving secessionist regions with a smaller share of resources or benefits.
This dynamic is clearly illustrated in the recent Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) between Ethiopia and Somaliland (SL). Abiy had much to gain from the agreement, while SL had little to gain and much to lose, aside from recognition by an African country.
In conclusion, it may be in the best interest of Puntland to remain within Somalia and pursue avenues such as running for the presidency to effect change from within the system. Would you agree?
From a diplomatic standpoint, pursuing secession would prove detrimental for Puntland. Secessionism tends to deter foreign investments, as it undermines stability and investor confidence. Additionally, endorsing secession could alienate other nations facing similar movements, as they may fear tacitly supporting such actions.
Moreover, secession creates an imbalanced power dynamic in negotiations with other entities. Recognising the potential losses associated with secession, counterparts may exploit this vulnerability, leaving secessionist regions with a smaller share of resources or benefits.
This dynamic is clearly illustrated in the recent Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) between Ethiopia and Somaliland (SL). Abiy had much to gain from the agreement, while SL had little to gain and much to lose, aside from recognition by an African country.
In conclusion, it may be in the best interest of Puntland to remain within Somalia and pursue avenues such as running for the presidency to effect change from within the system. Would you agree?
This will be the most likely outcome. All this has done is set a very bad precedent which will be exploited by future power hungry leaders.
You know, itβs so obvious that some will always cheer on anything that appears to harm Puntland even if in reality, it harms the whole country. Setting aside the federal vs central government argument,some of the proposed amendments will water down the Islamic principles, seeking to liberalise Somali society and opening it up to foreigners
Reminds me of poor white Americans voting against their interests just to spite Black Americans.
You would think that with everything that happened leading up to the civil war,more people would be wary of the antics that HSM is pulling to consolidate power and corrupt our fragile institutions like the Federal Parliament.
Alas
The ICU was willing to negotiate but outside forces compromised it by bombing Baidoa its in the Somali book called rising phoenix. Had that peace have happened Somalia would have a government similar to present day Iran
Heβs not just talking about Cayr heβs own Abgaal didnβt want governance sheikh cali wajiis explaines, AS is a multi clan mafia organization but specific clans dominate the leadership while others are foot soldiers. Most of AS weapons come trough PL and their explosives through Djibouti ultimately I believe the end goal is for AS to take over Somalia.
Hawiye Militants, the Backbone of al-Shabaab
THE HAWIYE ARE AN INFLUENTIAL PEOPLE AND AS SOMALIAβS LARGEST AND MOST PROMINENT CLAN, THE HAWIYE AND ITS POWERFUL SUB-CLANS HAVE PLAYED A KEY ROLE IN SHAPING THE COUNTRYβS IDENTITY. Present throughout southern and central Somalia, the Hawiye dominate vast regions of territory, including the capital
