Some Thoughts on Dark Skin & Somalis

[Lord Flacko]

Well yea, I've said many times already in this thread that it's just one feature among many that are considered aesthetic on a female. How does it being merely a beauty feature translate into Somali society being colorist? Do families refuse or discourage their sons and daughters from marrying darker Somalis? Do darker Somalis find it harder to find a job in Somalia? Are they less likely to be promoted in Somalia? Are darker women looked down upon and socially devalued in our society? Do lighter Somalis prefer socializing with other lighter Somalis? Is there an 'us vs them' mentality between light skin and dark skin Somalis? If the answer to all of this is no, then how can u possibly say with a straight face that there is colourism in Somali society.

The only reason Somali women keep bringing up skin colour and continue to use lightening creams is because it's the only feature they can permanently change with very little cost and with no invasive surgery. So it's not the case that being light skinned is more important than other features, in fact it's less important than most of them, such as having nice facial features. It's just that people like to focus on what they can change and have control over and to ignore the things they're stuck with. It's similar to how men focus on going to the gym and getting into shape in order to become better looking even though facial handsomeness is much more important for attracting females. Countless studies have shown that facial attractiveness matters more in the mating game than having a gym body (this matters too of course), yet men never or rarely discuss their faces, because they have no control over this and cannot change it, and always talk about working out and eating right, since this they can control and change.

These people don't even know what colourism is. They're so adamant it exists they had to change the definition to make it seem halfway true.

Discrimination based on skin color, also known as colorism or shadeism, is a form of prejudice or discrimination in which people are treated differently based on the social meanings attached to skin color.[1]

Somalis don't discriminate based on skin tone. Discrimination would be like the paper bag test in the US, or the fact that in Brazil your skin tone is so important to social mobility that it trumps race even. Blacks and browns have it hard finding a job and even though they're half if the population they're less than a quarter of politicans and they're heavily marginalized.

there are tons of white people who tan themselves often but they don't do it because of discrimination or colourism. It's just easy to do and they like the result. It's really akin to skin bleaching imo

 

[jugjugwacwac]

I think the men and the women have got it wrong so many men are arguing that there's no colorism because there are many somali men who marry women that are darker than them, which is true.
And the women are saying that their is colorism because women bleach their skin etc etc, which is also right.
now here is what I think. Colorism exists but it's generally done by the womens mother they are the ones who tell their daughters to stay out of sun light to not become dhuxul so then a woman thinks that lighter skin is better however most Somali men don't care about skin color and as many people pointed out are featureist meaning that they care about the features the women has not the skin color
All in all I think that us somali men and somali women view the world from a different lens and there's colorism or not depending on how you look at it

I see what you're saying sxb. I agree that you Somali men don't care about skin colour nearly as much as Somali girls think we do. And I agree that it's the women who are doing more to perpetuate lighter skin as a beauty ideal. But where I disagree is for Somali girls to describe the existence of this beauty ideal as proof of colourism, when colourism is predicated on a social hierarchy based on skin colour which is characterized by prejudice and discrimination against the darker members of the ethnic group. This does not exist among Somalis. To say Somalis are colourist, then u may as well say we are nose-ist as well, and waist-ist, and slender-ist, and teeth-ist, since all of these are also important aspects of our concept of female beauty.

 

[VixR]

Blanket statement: Somali men don't care about skin tone.

Big FAT Lie.

Maybe you don't.

 

[$$$$]

These girls don't want the truth.

 

[jugjugwacwac]

These people don't even know what colourism is. They're so adamant it exists they had to change the definition to make it seem halfway true.


Somalis don't discriminate based on skin tone. Discrimination would be like the paper bag test in the US, or the fact that in Brazil your skin tone is so important to social mobility that it trumps race even. Blacks and browns have it hard finding a job and even though they're half if the population they're less than a quarter of politicans and they're heavily marginalized.

there are tons of white people who tan themselves often but they don't do it because of discrimination or colourism. It's just easy to do and they like the result. It's really akin to skin bleaching imo

Absolutely sxb. It's so simple, how come these girls can't get it?

 

[Lord Flacko]

This is true.

I've spoken for preference on here so I do give credence to personal preference, but to slather Somali views on color or skin tone as individual personal preferences and not a group sum situation, and to claim there no colorism in Somali community would be a big, FAT lie. Colorism is rife in the Somali psyche. I think those best understanding of it are those of us who are light, and by light I mean light, and darker than brown Somalis, the actual dark Somalis, not the brown skin, medium tones.

Somalis laud lightness and darkness (that's if it is lauded at all) in turn, thus playing lighter and darker girls off each other. There's a general preference shown for the light girl, and disparaging marks towards the dark, even as a child in many cases, and then a jerk steer in the opposite direction where the dark are showered and called genuine and asli (original) the light are called counterfeit and stripped of Somalinimo, or called mixed or 'not real Somalis', almost as if to make up for the status quo. It's unbridled colorism that plays the two 'camps' of women off each other.

I think this site analyzes only one side of colorism, that one towards the dark girl. I really think the darker girls does deal with much worse, that might make them hate their skin tone and therefore elect to change that one thing that marginalizes her interactions, or might consciously elect to marry out or marry light so her children don't experience the overt and covert negative references to her tone she did. But there are side effects for a light girl, believe it or not, and you touched on some of that. Telling little light girls to stay out of the sun, making her aware of its 'value' as a small child. Knowing the weight your skin tone holds in attraction of the opposite sex, and the fake affection that blindsides people. Being told you must have some admixture up the line, and you are you actually probably not full Somali, etc.

Those are trivial and completely anecdotal things.


Reminder : Just because one guy likes one skin tone over the other on his female, and another guy prefers a different skin tone doesn't mean there is colourism in Somalia. If there were then were is the light ruling class? Seriously in all societies where there is colourism the ruling class is light.

Within white people only many find tanned chicks to be a more beautiful than pale ones, but that's simply a subjective preference that usually exists in a part of one demographic of the community. The ruling class don't consist of tanned people. Pale people don't have it harder finding a job or get into public office.

You all have to stop projecting the problems of other societies onto ours. We have our own distinct ones.

 

[government]

Blanket statement: Somali men don't care about skin tone.

Big FAT Lie.

Maybe you don't.

Me and all the men in this forum don't care about skin color

 

[VixR]

@Prince of Hobyo @jugjugwacwac

So the new argument is, there is colorism, but it isn't institutionalized?

Moving the goalpost.

Me and all the men in this forum don't care about skin color

I can categorically tell you that isn't true for most of them irl

 

[jugjugwacwac]

@princeofhobyo @jugjugwacwac

So the new argument is, there is colorism, but it isn't institutionalized?

Moving the goalpost.

No there is no colourism at all. Darker Somalis are not discriminated against. Lighter skinned Somali girls have that advantage over darker Somali girls in the realm of aesthetics only and not beyond that. But a darker Somali girl can have a much prettier nose or body or hair for example than the lighter girl. So is that now nose-ism, or body-ism or hair -ism? Why are you and people like u so fixated on colour? What makes it so different than the other beauty ideals, since not everyone is blessed with those other 'pretty' features either? Anyway to prove colourism in Somali society u'd have to show examples of prejudice and discrimination against darker Somalis, which no one has been able to do thus far.

 

[VixR]

No there is no colourism at all. Darker Somalis are not discriminated against. Lighter skinned Somali girls have that advantage over darker Somali girls in the realm of aesthetics only and not beyond that. But a darker Somali girl can have a much prettier nose or body or hair for example than the lighter girl. So is that now nose-ist, or body-ist or hair -ist? Why are you and people like u so fixated on colour? What makes it so different than the other beauty ideals, since not everyone is blessed with those other 'pretty' features either? Anyway to prove colourism in Somali society u'd have to show examples of prejudice and discrimination against darker Somalis, which no one has been able to do thus far.

You contradicted yourself. Interesting that this whole discussion has circled round to the definition, one you and @Prince of Hobyo should both look up

 

[government]

@Prince of Hobyo @jugjugwacwac

So the new argument is, there is colorism, but it isn't institutionalized?

Moving the goalpost.

I can categorically tell you that isn't true for most of them irl

Look at all the posts in here all of them are saying that they don't give a damn about skin color, I don't know about you but from where I come from when someone says something we give them the benefit of the doubt since we can't read their minds

 

[jugjugwacwac]

You contradicted yourself. Interesting that this whole discussion has circled round to the definition, one you and @Prince of Hobyo should both look up

How am I contradicting myself?

 

[Lord Flacko]

@princeofhobyo @jugjugwacwac

So the new argument is, there is colorism, but it isn't institutionalized?

Moving the goalpost.

No there is no colourism. Read what I wrote.

You have all changed the definition of this simple thing. Now it apparently encompasses when Najib thought Noora who was lighter than Muna to be more beautiful than Muna. And it includes light skinned Somalis being discriminated against and told they're not Somali ( )
And again you're ignoring the fact that Najib got a friend named Hassan who finds Muna to be more attractive over Noora.

Here's one simple question that you ignored. If there is such rampant colourism in Somalis and Somalia, where is the light ruling class? It exists in every society where there is colourism. Look at the ruling class in India, Liberia, South Africa, Malaysia, Brazil etc etc.

Again here is the definition

If this exists than explain where. When did we elect somebody on the basis of their skin tone? When did someone's skin tone decide if they could get th the job they wanted or go to the school they dreamed of?

 

[jugjugwacwac]

I see what you're saying sxb. I agree that you Somali men don't care about skin colour nearly as much as Somali girls think we do. And I agree that it's the women who are doing more to perpetuate lighter skin as a beauty ideal. But where I disagree is for Somali girls to describe the existence of this beauty ideal as proof of colourism, when colourism is predicated on a social hierarchy based on skin colour which is characterized by prejudice and discrimination against the darker members of the ethnic group. This does not exist among Somalis. To say Somalis are colourist, then u may as well say we are nose-ist as well, and waist-ist, and slender-ist, and teeth-ist, since all of these are also important aspects of our concept of female beauty.

I meant to say we Somali men .

 

[Lord Flacko]

You contradicted yourself. Interesting that this whole discussion has circled round to the definition, one you and @Prince of Hobyo should both look up

This one?

 

[Lord Flacko]

@VixR I know you grew up with only whites and blacks but don't ever think that their culture is similar to ours. I didn't except you to be this out of touch with Somali culture.




Come and join the dark light side girl

 

[VixR]

Wholesale cultural favoritism for lighter tones, even in the case of Somali men (Somali men might or might not be ceeyed for being dark and called negroid, but they too are praised for light "mashallah" skin just as us girls) in the case of our culture , isn't a prejudice against darker skin?

 

[Lord Flacko]

Wholesale cultural favoritism for lighter tones, even in the case of Somali men (Somali men might be ceeyer for being dark and called negroid, but they too are praised for light mashallah skin) in the case of our culture , isn't a prejudice against darker skin?

Prejudice is a negative opinion on people formed without actual basis or interaction with that group.

No there is no such thing consisting in Somali culture towards darker skin. For one it's straight up impossible as every Somali who grew up with other Somalis will by default have grown up with darker skinned ones. Again I'm wondering where you get these wrong ideas about Somali culture from. Cuz it's not from other Somalis.

When in the name of Allah has a darker skinned Somali been called Negroid for just being dark

And no there is no wholesale cultural favoritism for lighter skin. If there were than how come Sheikh Sharif get to be one of the most universally liked presidents and Abdiweli Sheikh Ahmed get to be dismissed as Prime Minister after a no-confidence vote? In your proposed Somali culture the roles would have been changed.


Wallahi I'm starting to think y'all don't get thought the definition of simple words in America, or the ability to Google them.

 

[$$$$]

Prejudice is a negative opinion on people formed without actual basis or interaction with that group.

No there is no such thing consisting in Somali culture towards darker skin. For one it's straight up impossible as every Somali who grew up with other Somalis will by default have grown up with darker skinned ones. Again I'm wondering where you get these wrong ideas about Somali culture from. Cuz it's not from other Somalis.

When in the name of Allah has a darker skinned Somali been called Negroid for just being dark

And no there is no wholesale cultural favoritism for lighter skin. If there were than how come Sheikh Sharif get to be one of the most universally liked presidents and Abdiweli Sheikh Ahmed get to be dismissed as Prime Minister after a no-confidence vote? In your proposed Somali culture the roles would have been changed.


Wallahi I'm starting to think y'all don't get thought the definition of simple words in America, or the ability to Google them.

They understand everything perfectly. They just don't want to accept the truth lmao.

 

[VixR]

The level of denial