Some of the most famous ancient sites/ruins in Awdal, Borama district from Adal Sultanate

Discussion in 'History' started by Jas, Jan 10, 2018.

  1. Jas

    Jas

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    Unlikely.

    The Patron Saint buried in the town, according to the locals is Gurgura, which is today is a semi-Oromised Dir clan.

    Aw-Barre could never be a Girri.
     
  2. Sultan

    Sultan I am the Sultan

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    Aw-barre is the largest Girri Kombe clan .The grandfather of Shiikh Aboyoonis and isaaq .

    Register to view spoiler content!
     
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  3. DR OSMAN

    DR OSMAN

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    I didn't know there was frankincense in SL and Djibouti and Eritrea, why don't they have a culture of doing it like Bari and Eastern Sanag? Strange you got something the whole world loves and wants in historical times and you don't practise how to do it or pass it onto your people who should be doing it today cause it would be a tradition handed down cuz it would be big business.

    There really is no proof anywhere other then PL where this trade is carried out. With your form of thinking your saying oil is everywhere in the world therefore all countries must be oil traders. That's quite flawed don't you think. It's clearly provable not all countries trade in oil regardless if it's present or not. it's only certain countries who exploit it and trade it. Just cause there is oil where I am doesn't mean I know how to exploit or use it.

    But even then I am not 100% sure frankincense was located anywhere outside of PL in it's raw state but even if it was doesn't mean they knew how to exploit it or trade with it.

    True Puntland must have been North-Eastern Somalia, don't let all these fools send u to Eritrea, Djibouti, Somaliland, cuz if it was, you'd see them doing it today or some historical record or tradition of their people doing it in the past!!! Grant PLS BOW TO PL, LAND OF GOD, THE TRUE MECCA OF PHAROAHS THE GREATEST CIVILIZATION ON EARTH.
     
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  4. DR OSMAN

    DR OSMAN

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    I've been letting your stuff slide bro cause you weren't involving PL, but if you do, the DR must handle you and ask others what that feels like!!!
     
  5. suldana

    suldana

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    I don't know about Eritrea and Djibouti, but in SL the HY in Sanaag have a rich history with frankincense trade and they still export til this day. Here is a video about it by CNN from last year.

    http://www.somalilandinformer.com/somaliland/where-does-frankincense-come-from/

    Lush, one of the biggest natural cosmetics brands in the world import the frankincense they use in their products from SL.

    https://uk.lush.com/article/future-frankincense
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  6. MARAQ DIGAAG

    MARAQ DIGAAG Suugo Scientist

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    Guys , have the debate with Grant in the thread link he posted. Don't hijack this guys thread .
     
  7. Grant

    Grant

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    Doctor,

    You have a totally bizarre and warped view of the Frankincense trade.

    Five hundred years after Hatshepsut, camels began moving Frankincense from Oman and the Horn to Gaza and points north. Here are the trade routes. Note the link to Auxum and the absence of a direct route to Somalia:

    http://factsanddetails.com/world/cat56/sub371/item1968.html

    [​IMG]

    There is more than one true frankincense. Serrata, from India, was probably the first used.


    http://www.thefrankincensestore.com/various-species/4567430426

    [​IMG]
    Boswellia Thurifera grows in the regions of Yemen, North and East Africa. It is larger in size compared to that of Boswellia Papyifera. Used widely by the Jordanian’s it has been scientifically tested to show that it helps promote fertility mainly by affecting pituitary gland cells. Boswellia Thurifera can also be classified into 4 grades of purity.

    The world’s finest and luxurious frankincense resin is the Boswellia Sacra from Oman. This sweet aromatic resin was the favourite for Queen of Sheba and Queen Hatsethput and is most likely the grade also given to baby Jesus. Boswellia Sacra is classified in to four categories according to its degree of excellence.

    The resins are subdivided from 4 regions in Dhofar -Oman. These regions reflect the quality of each resin. El Shabi, which is known to be lowest good quality, El Shazri which is the third good quality,the second class is El Najdi and its trees grow in the Najd area, north of Central Dhofar Mountains. The finest quality is El Hojari, which is the resin from the trees that grow in the eastern part of the area. Within each class the resins can be graded into its size, colour and smell. So far the frankincense Store has graded 12 grades from the EL Hojari class. The grades also reflect weather it is the first second, third, fourth or fifth tapping from the tree in any one season. This process of grading and classification can be adapted to other countries that produce frankincense.

    The Hojari frankincense is the finest. But the Diamond resin of all the frankincense worldwide and is only available in small quantities and exclusive to the Omani region is the Green Hojari Locally known as Luban Zakar. Known for its magical healing properties and a powerful sweet aromatic citrus menthol scent. This rare and amazing frankincense resin has the power to help with fertility; cancer, leukaemia and many others sever illnesses. The resin is taken internally by boiling it until fully dissolved and drunk immediately. Omani's use this regularly and every home in Oman has an amount of the Green Hojari Frankincense as a use of medicine. Oman has no cancer wards in its hospital or cancer patients. In 2011 about 4 people were diagnosed with cancer and these are all people that have lived outside of Oman.

    All in all there are 4 main types of boswellia trees being cultivated but there must be over 50 species of the Burseraceae Boswellia Trees including Commiphora myhrra, and 250 + grades of the resins.

    Some of the names of the other boswellia trees are:

    Boswellia ameero, B.bullata, B.dalzielii, B.dioscorides, B.elongata, B.frereana, B.nana, B.neglecta, B.ogadensis, B.pirottae, B.papyrifera, B.popoviana, B.rivae, B.Sacra Flueck, B.thurifera, B.Carterri, B.serrata, B.socotrana.

    http://41.67.20.41/bitstream/handle...cense from the Dry.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

    "Frankincense is an ancient commercial forest product which currently remains an
    important commodity. Ethiopia, Eritrea, Kenya, Somalia and Sudan are the major
    producers and exporters of frankincense (Chikamai 2002 ). In addition to its environmental benefits,
    the production and marketing of frankincense offer diverse
    socioeconomic benefits at local, regional and national levels, including job
    opportunities and remarkable economic benefit for tappers, traders, exporters, and
    the national economy at large. Its contribution to the national economy is reflected
    in its status as one of the forestry export commodities.

    More than 3,700 metric tonne of frankincense was exported from Sudan between
    2000/2001 and 2006/2007 with the value of export more than 3.5 million USD from
    this export in the respective years (CBOS 2006 2007 ; Ministry of foreign trade
    annual reports). However, despite the good resource potential of Boswellia stands in
    the country, its share of the market remains relatively small with regards to its
    resource potential (Salih et al.2002). Rashad Locality is the major frankincense
    production area in South Kordofan. El Tahir and Gebauer (2004 ) estimated that the
    Rashad Locality has an average annual production potential of 8,000 tonne."

    Somalia's dominance in the field is recent and partially contingent on the economic sanctions against the Sudan since 1997:

    https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/pages/sudan.aspx

    "Effective October 12, 2017, certain sanctions with respect to Sudan and the Government of Sudan – namely sections 1 and 2 of Executive Order (E.O.) 13067 of November 3, 1997 and all of E.O. 13412 of October 13, 2006 – will be revoked, pursuant to E.O. 13761 of January 13, 2017, as amended by E.O. 13804 of July 11, 2017. This revocation of certain sanctions:

    • Does not affect OFAC sanctions related to the conflict in Darfur, which were imposed pursuant to E.O. 13400 of April 26, 2006 and pursuant to the national emergency declared in E.O. 13067, which will not be terminated; and
    • Does not affect OFAC designations of any Sudanese persons pursuant to sanctions authorities other than E.O.s 13067 and 13412."

    Note that raw frankincense is relatively cheap and that the potential supply greatly exceeds the demand. Ethiopia alone could easily supply the world.

    http://www.fao.org/docrep/V5350e/V5350e11.htm

    "Although reliable information on the distribution and abundance of the resin-yielding species is not available, and the scattered occurrence of the trees makes detailed surveys a difficult and expensive option, it is believed that the total size of the natural resource and its potential productivity significantly outweigh demand for the products. COULTER (1987) cites official estimates in 1981 of 23,000 tonnes pa for the potential production of olibanum in Ethiopia. With such a large resource base there would appear to be little incentive to domesticate the trees. The inputs (such as irrigation) needed to establish and maintain trees in cultivation would also be extremely costly. Nevertheless, a Swedish aid project in Somalia during the 1980s was aimed specifically at studying the conditions for domestication of Boswellia. The outcome of this research is not known."

    "Somalia and Ethiopia are by far the biggest producers of the three resins. Somalia supplies most of the world's myrrh and opopanax (ca 1,500 tonnes in 1987) although some of this originates in neighbouring Ethiopia and, more recently, Kenya. Somalia is the only source of maidi-type olibanum, exports of which were estimated at 800-900 tonnes in 1987. Smaller quantities of the "beyo" type of olibanum are produced."


    Relatively speaking and over time, Somalia is and has been a small producer.
     
  8. DR OSMAN

    DR OSMAN

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    Where is the proof these people have frankincense skills, just show me one climbing a tree in history or today. Just 1. Just because they trade in a commodity doesn't mean they are the original source of it. Many people trade in OIL, even Somalia doesn't mean there is OIL being produced in Somalia. It has it origins in Somalia where the craft is carried(digging oil fields). The craft has been and always will be carried out in PL and nowhere, what they do with the item afterwards and the networks they establish isn't my business. We are the suppliers, they are simply traders of it.
     
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  9. DR OSMAN

    DR OSMAN

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    @Grant You keep simply repeating the same mantra bro. Just becuz Frankincense exists in it's raw form around the world, doesn't mean people knew or wanted to exploit it. Their could've been religious reasons like Buddhism and Hinduism which are not allowed to harm any type of life or they could've have been totally ignorant about how to exploit the tree itself. PL till today demonstrates this ancient craft and I can prove it to you. Heck I won't ask you to prove any of those countries you mentioned in your map were the source of Frankincense, just prove they actually were climbing the trees and removing the resin in any time or point in history. The source is the tree, everything after that is 'trade networks and usages' not source. The practise of trading and using are far different to the practises required at the tree.

    I will defend PL and I don't care what your maps or someone else map says if the evidence can be refuted with simple observation of new details!!!

    I just want u to do the right thing Grant and surrender yourself to PL and be Knighted by the King Of Somalia King Burhan the 34th and be pardoned of your Puntland sins and have yourself cleansed from your deplorable un-noble status and be made Noble again. I just want your Nobility. J

    Just surrender that new evidences must and always needs new explanations regardless of how attached you were to your maps and theories, the second new details arises and tests those explanations and map, you need to either discard it or re-draw it. Start with a central point in PL as the supplier and then follow the frankincense trade route and where it was traded and used. Any religious place or society obviously would've needed it so you already have a head-start where it would've been practised.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  10. Grant

    Grant

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    http://41.67.20.41/bitstream/handle...cense from the Dry.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

    Commodity Chain of Frankincense from the Dry
    Woodlands of Nuba Mountains, South Kordofan State,
    Sudan
    Asmamaw Alemu Abtew

    Jurgen Pretzsch

    Tarig El-Sheikh Mohmoud

    Yahia Omar Adam
    Accepted: 31 October 2011
    Steve Harrison, John Herbohn 2012
    Abstract
    "Frankincense is one of the major commercial NTFPs in the Sudan produced by tapping the bark of
    Boswellia papyrifera (Del.) Hochst trees. It is one
    of the major NTFPs of the Sudan traded locally and internationally. The aims of the
    present study include: (1) to identify the chain actors and their functions (2) to
    estimate benefit distribution and value added along the chain; and (3) to determine
    the mechanisms by which actors control and maintain access to benefits. The study
    was conducted in the Rashad locality, South Kordofan state, Sudan in 2008/2009. A
    combination of Rapid Rural Appraisal tools including key informant interview, in-
    depth semi-structured interviews, group discussion and direct observations were
    used for primary data collection. Eight major actors involved in the value chain
    were identified and their activities and characteristics examined. The average annual
    net income of tapper, producer, village trader, and urban merchant was estimated to
    be 74, 740, 1,300, and 11,230 USD, respectively. The results clearly demonstrate
    the upward skewed benefit distribution among the value chain actors. The total
    relative commercialization margin was 62.5% indicating that the actors involved in
    marketing of the product accrued higher proportion of the end market price. While
    those involved in the production activities, tappers and producers, receive less
    income counting about 37.5% of the end market price. The results also illustrate that
    there is limited value added processing in the commodity chain. Commercial
    benefits in the commodity chain are gained, maintained and controlled through
    different mechanisms. The study concludes that frankincense production and mar-
    keting is financially profitable for producers, village traders and urban merchants.
    However, frankincense tappers and producers receive less income. Technical,
    financial, and institutional support could result in an increase in local actors’ income
    and contribute to sustainability of the supply of the product."
     
  11. DR OSMAN

    DR OSMAN

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    Nuba Mountains right next to Egypt and they would call it Puntland travelling down the red sea when it's just across the border in land? They knew nubians sxb and they were depicted as Black in Color in their images. This is clearly not evidence. Besides I haven't even bothered reading it but sudan won't do in this case. They are not even contenders for Puntland. Show me Eritrea cause that's where people say, just show me one form of that practise there in the past or today. Now I know they use it for religious services but it's brought over from PL, cuz I know as hell they don't climb the tree!!!

    As for the Sudan case, how do we know this is not a new practise? I don't think Nubians ever practised Frankincense trade in history or else the egyptians would mention it and they would've brought it over as gifts since they would know the egyptians loved that stuff for their religious ceremony, plus we have their Nubian images on egyptian walls and can compare it against the images for Punt which is very different.
     
  12. DR OSMAN

    DR OSMAN

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    Shame on you Grant trying to so hard and googling away like mad just to take away Puntland History, the Land of God!!! Worshipped by the most beloved civilization in human history, me a Puntite!!!
     
  13. Grant

    Grant

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    That explains it all.
     
  14. DR OSMAN

    DR OSMAN

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    Commodity Chain of Frankincense from the Dry Woodlands of Nuba Mountains, South Kordofan State, Sudan

    Nuba Mountains is located a bit further down near south sudan, but they wouldn't of travelled red sea to get there but the nile which they knew of. Sudan isn't a contender for Puntland, I am not sure why you are arguing it.

    Plus I am not saying Ethiopia might not have been involved but it was damn not the source of the frankincense maybe the monkeys and other exotic animals. But we have to remember this happened 3500 years ago or so, the sabeans didn't enter the region till much later when Egypt was under occupation by the Romans, far later down in the future. The land was inhabited by Cushites and other African tribes and Somalia and Ethiopia were probably viewed as one country by the Egyptians. So there is possible explanations that the cushites may had control of the whole land back then and sent expeditions themselves on land or sea to different parts of the land.

    They could've have prepared for the Egyptians coming and went to Eritrea to get the monkeys and other exotic animals and bring it to PL so it can be given as a gift to the Egyptian along with the locally sourced frankincense in PL and this could've of taken place either in PL or Ethiopia. Where it ook places doesn't matter, it's where the frankincense source was that matters. But the land of god applies to the frankincense not the monkeys and other exotic gifts or even where the trade was happening. So the Pandora Box really is who was the source of the frankincense cause that's who the Egyptians viewed as the land of god and I definitely say PL fits the profile the best. Cause Eritrea has no history of climbing the trees and yemen are to light skinned to be shown like the Puntites were. So these people were definitely dark skinned and African and this eliminates all the damn arabs from the equation. It comes down to Eritrea or Puntland as always shown on the map and Eritrea is eliminated cause it has no tradition of this practise of climbing trees and sourcing it. This only leaves My beautiful state Puntland as Last Man standing in this elimination process.

    Forget Sudan way to far in-land and would require the nile plus they were always shown as a different color the sudanese and I am sure the closer u get to the south sudan you will be shown as blacker in the egyptian arts.

    Please be humbled Grant, you brought up Puntland and you going to be playing with the doctor who will take you and anyone to school when this mighty state is thrown into disrepute and to discredit us as if we had no civilization and were just naked people.
     
  15. DR OSMAN

    DR OSMAN

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    Oh No the Doctor is Shattered. It's a tie Eritrea or Puntland

    Eritrean digging into the tree. I am scanning if this is a new practise or has been handed down. It's crucial it's not new cuz it needed to be practised back in those times. Plus the people who do this are clearly cushites AFARS cause only they live in those desert areas. Proving my point this land was controlled by cushites and sabeans weren't in the mix. The fight is on Puntite or Afar!!! The doctor vs the doctor!!!!
    http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/img/environment/boswellia181206.jpg
     
  16. DR OSMAN

    DR OSMAN

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    @Grant We can safely assume the Sudanese are not in the mix here, cause they're located way down-stream on the Nile, their would be no reason to go through the red sea to them, Infact it wouldn't of been possible anyways. Plus they were dark black in Color similar to the nilotics present in that area today. Where-as Puntites were a darkish brown hue. Clearly different People. You must eliminate the Arabs who were light skinned and shown differently on the Egyptian walls. We must eliminate Habesha as they were never in the land back then and can assume it was Cushite dominated cause they are still in that land today the Afars. So the battle is on Puntite Somalia vs Eritrea Afar. Two Cushites at it for the big Civilization of Puntland.

    I am leaning towards Afar cause they still have those wig types which is clearly shown on the walls. The doctor may need to surrender to Afar Eritrea but will continue to investigate. But don't bring arab, sudanese, and habesha into this, cause they are clearly not the Puntites!!!

    The doctor still has hope, the Afar have traditions connecting them to the Harti Darod, it was officially acknowledged in Djibouti with a Warsangeli delegation. They are Hartis as we don't join them, they join us, long long brother who left the Harti Tribe and encountered other people and mixed in!!! I know the harti wouldn't be relevent back then but hey it demonstrates how close the bond is and imagine back then how close it must of been
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  17. Grant

    Grant

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    Dr, please! Notice where the Boswellia papyrifera range touches the Red Sea. The Harti don't even form until the 12th-13th centuries AD.

    If you have seriously begun to read, check this out; the ancient Sudan was hardly monolithic:

    https://www.britishmuseum.org/PDF/Manzo.pdf




    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  18. Von

    Von It's always the bums who talk the most.- Reiko

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    So @Grant wuz not kingz and shiet:ayaanswag:
     
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  19. Grant

    Grant

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    Wuz kings, some of the earliest and greatest. You're all just looking in the wrong place.
     
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  20. James Dahl

    James Dahl

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    Yeah to be honest the Land of Puenet was probably Eritrea, the "Far Side Ports" like Avalites and Malao enter the picture much later about 2000 years after the time of Hatshepsut.
     
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