Somalis must either unite or go separate paths

[The Cushitic One]

Walaalo PL and Xamar would rather elect a Northerner if it means the other won't get the seat.
Isn't that how Farmaajo got elected couse MJ and Abgaal cancelled each other out.

As for SSpot you need to understand that it's like a Marfish/sheesha joint.
Would u really expect individuals with Deen, asluub and edeb to convene there?

True.

Ideally would I love for everyone
To be united yes! But this is
Just an idea, and implementing
It is far more work than just
Saying it.

We as a people have to overcome
the QABIL issue. If we never had
This problem, we could've been
So much more, we would've
Eclipsed every African nation
In our shadow.

I agree, this site isn't the best representation of Somali people.

 

[Garaad Darawiish]

Anyone who supports the division of the Somali people is either extremely ignorant or clinically retarded. If Somaliland becomes its own country, there will definitely (100%) be war. It will be either a civil war (like S. Sudan) or a war with Puntland (and Somalia) over disputed territories. In my opinion, Somaliland will win, but it will be weakened which will make all of us weak and susceptible to getting conquered by our enemies. Even without war, Somalia will still be weak and divided and will become conquered by our neighbors.

This is an image released by WikiLeaks!!! WikiLeaks has never released fake documents!

They said that Ethiopia and Kenya are willing to divde Somalia amongst themselves. This is the fate that awaits Somalis if they continue to fight each other. You would think that Somalis would have learned from their mistakes after getting conquered by Neanderthals. The Dervish State (Somalis from every clan) was able to hold back Britain, Italy, Kenya, Ethiopia, and other Somalis for 20+ years and it was just a bunch of Nomads (Heroes). Imagine an educated Somali populace that is united, we would be one of the strongest countries in the world.

ahemahem dervishes= dhulbahante

 

[The Cushitic One]

How about a two house solution? the lower house being base on population and an upper house( the House of states) based on the former 18 regions and each get 2 seats. this way I think the north gets 35-40 percent of the seats in the lower house( House of the people) and pretty much have Togdheer and Wwoqooyi seats (4) and maybe one each seat from Sool, Sanag and Awdal in the house of the states.

That's actually an idea that could
Work.

It would ensure everyone is
represented Fairly, within the
government.

 

[merka]

How about a two house solution? the lower house being base on population and an upper house( the House of states) based on the former 18 regions and each get 2 seats. this way I think the north gets 35-40 percent of the seats in the lower house( House of the people) and pretty much have Togdheer and Wwoqooyi seats (4) and maybe one each seat from Sool, Sanag and Awdal in the house of the states.

This would be a suitable solution. Districts can be divided proportionally based on equal population. For example each district will have around 50000 people. Since the major clans of Somalia proper are virtually equal in population it shouldn't cause major problems.

The more densely populated areas will have more districts than the vast more sparse areas.

Inshaallah I will do a thread about this in more detail.

 

[Von]

This would be a suitable solution. Districts can be divided proportionally based on equal population. For example each district will have around 50000 people. Since the major clans of Somalia proper are virtually equal in population it shouldn't cause major problems.

The more densely populated areas will have more districts than the vast more sparse areas.

Inshaallah I will do a thread about this in more detail.

Exactly man, it's the Australian model btw. you should read the Australian constitution, you would be surprised how much power the states would have spread the word my brother

 

[DR OSMAN]

You cant share power along district lines, thats just copying the western model. The boy in gedo and sool will say all those major cities was built with their 'somali' name in terms of the infrastructure such as roads, ports, airports!!! if it wasn't for those infrastructure those cities wouldn't of reached where it is today. Trust me 4.5 is the best solution available today!!!

 

[DR OSMAN]

Infact most of somali population are on camels not in districts, it is said only 20% of the somali population is settled and urban, are we going to let 20% of our population decide the political course of our nation and ignore the 80%!!! western models simply do not work, we need to take a traditional approach to our government system and it must reflect our culture not reflect the western culture of districts and crap. Why are we so blinded by always following someone else model? their model doesn't even suit your cultural appetite and you expect to get something good out of it.

 

[SomaliWadaniSoldier]

This would be a suitable solution. Districts can be divided proportionally based on equal population. For example each district will have around 50000 people. Since the major clans of Somalia proper are virtually equal in population it shouldn't cause major problems.

The more densely populated areas will have more districts than the vast more sparse areas.

Inshaallah I will do a thread about this in more detail.

Or u can have awdal(ofcourse they should be asked what they want: staying with Somalia or with maamulka sland) ssc stays with us. And we become two neighbouring countries just like Djibouti and Somalia.

There cant be recognition without first dealing the border issue and ssc/awdal question. Without that, a hasty recognition will lead to border wars.

 

[Von]

You cant share power along district lines, thats just copying the western model. The boy in gedo and sool will say all those major cities was built with their 'somali' name in terms of the infrastructure such as roads, ports, airports!!! if it wasn't for those infrastructure those cities wouldn't of reached where it is today. Trust me 4.5 is the best solution available today!!!

just cause its a foreign concept doesn't mean it's wrong or bad. The world is known for others picking up old ideas and developing them further. i understand that qabil will be an issue however when social reforms take place the qabil system will be buried 6 feet under.

Infact most of somali population are on camels not in districts, it is said only 20% of the somali population is settled and urban, are we going to let 20% of our population decide the political course of our nation and ignore the 80%!!! western models simply do not work, we need to take a traditional approach to our government system and it must reflect our culture not reflect the western culture of districts and crap. Why are we so blinded by always following someone else model? their model doesn't even suit your cultural appetite and you expect to get something good out of it.

it's a plan for the future and there is a correlation between development and people moving into the cities. Let's be honest our camel nomadic way of life is coming to an end, the famine is an example of that. We are going to be an intensive agriculture farming society, which means fixed settlements for a system like this to unleash the political power of Somalia.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Von, I am not saying foreign concepts are bad, but when it doesn't reflect your culture it is bad. It doesn't matter if somalis settle in cities or farms or diaspora. If that changes anything then why are they still tribal? don't you see it doesn't matter where u settle because your culture follows you, even if the nomads all went off camels and settled cities, their culture would still be alive among us. Tribe is not going anywhere, if it was then logic would say the diaspora somalis would not be tribal since they are not in Somalia but they are even more tribal then those inside Somalia.

Learn something about culture, it is really important when you build anything be it is a business, govt, or any sort of shared space. Look at businesses when you walk inside they pass you their 'values and culture or code of conduct', without it, it means people enter the business with all sorts of culture and bad practises and will make the company fail from the inside through corruption, nepotism, cronyism, and all sorts of bad habits. So they set out early on what the culture of the organisation is. Even a business operates like this, imagine a government which is even a bigger shared space then a business is not relying on it's culture and trying to import foreign culture systems. You can't shove this democacy, district and western stuff down our throats anymore, we have been trying to do that since the 60s and africa has tried also. ADMIT IT, IT HAS FAILED.

 

[merka]

Or u can have awdal(ofcourse they should be asked what they want: staying with Somalia or with maamulka sland) ssc stays with us. And we become two neighbouring countries just like Djibouti and Somalia.

There cant be recognition without first dealing the border issue and ssc/awdal question. Without that, a hasty recognition will lead to border wars.

We must be united brother

 

[Garaad Darawiish]

This will not work. 4.5 sytem is the only viable system that has been tried and tested and is successful. 2 major clans of somalia Hawiye and Darood should play musical chairs for the presidency while Isaaq, d/m and dir can vie for the PM position. Isaaq live in 3 cities while darood live in 65% of somalia so how can we give so much clout to isaaqs who not only number less than us but also have less land to show for it.

 

[merka]

This will not work. 4.5 sytem is the only viable system that has been tried and tested and is successful. 2 major clans of somalia Hawiye and Darood should play musical chairs for the presidency while Isaaq, d/m and dir can vie for the PM position. Isaaq live in 3 cities while darood live in 65% of somalia so how can we give so much clout to isaaqs who not only number less than us but also have less land to show for it.

Isaaqs will not join a 4.5 system. A United Somali Republic must be tribalism free or else the status quo remains.

 

[Garaad Darawiish]

Isaaqs will not join a 4.5 system. A United Somali Republic must be tribalism free or else the status quo remains.

yes but isaaqs should crawl before they walk. Someone suggested giving an isaaq the first shot at presidency. I will not allow that because it isn't just. Unless, we are assured a democratic one-man-one vote election, the 4.5 system shall reign supreme. You guys can enjoy ur vice prime minster position for now.

 

[merka]

yes but isaaqs should crawl before they walk. Someone suggested giving an isaaq the first shot at presidency. I will not allow that because it isn't just. Unless, we are assured a democratic one-man-one vote election, the 4.5 system shall reign supreme. You guys can enjoy ur vice prime minster position for now.

Somaliland already knows how to do one man one vote elections. It's Somalia who needs to walk faster.

See this is why we can't unite. We are on totally different pages. Come back when you're serious about re-unification.

 

[SomaliWadaniSoldier]

We must be united brother

Wallahi judgement day is near
Somaliweynist who wants secession, secessionist wants unity

 

[Garaad Darawiish]

Somaliland already knows how to do one man one vote elections. It's Somalia who needs to walk faster.

See this is why we can't unite. We are on totally different pages. Come back when you're serious about re-unification.

we are already unified. U never broke away in the first place. we have more pressing issues such as getting back Ogadenia and NFD.

 

[Von]

Von, I am not saying foreign concepts are bad, but when it doesn't reflect your culture it is bad. It doesn't matter if somalis settle in cities or farms or diaspora. If that changes anything then why are they still tribal? don't you see it doesn't matter where u settle because your culture follows you, even if the nomads all went off camels and settled cities, their culture would still be alive among us. Tribe is not going anywhere, if it was then logic would say the diaspora somalis would not be tribal since they are not in Somalia but they are even more tribal then those inside Somalia.

Learn something about culture, it is really important when you build anything be it is a business, govt, or any sort of shared space. Look at businesses when you walk inside they pass you their 'values and culture or code of conduct', without it, it means people enter the business with all sorts of culture and bad practises and will make the company fail from the inside through corruption, nepotism, cronyism, and all sorts of bad habits. So they set out early on what the culture of the organisation is. Even a business operates like this, imagine a government which is even a bigger shared space then a business is not relying on it's culture and trying to import foreign culture systems. You can't shove this democacy, district and western stuff down our throats anymore, we have been trying to do that since the 60s and africa has tried also. ADMIT IT, IT HAS FAILED.

I think adopting values from the West is a good thing, Arabs did it with Persians, Ottomans with the Greeks and Somalis with the Arabs. if you don't think it's a good thing then hit me with your ideas.
A great example of change is the Japanese, they changed everything that Japan stood for to survive into the modern age. However, they also brought in cultural values from pre- Meiji reformation to assist those with difficulty changing. It differs from the Somali situation but it shows how strong western social reform can change a people for the better. I feel as if you didn't consider that or don't believe its possible. From my time in Somalia, i learned that they aren't as qabilist as those in the west, Somalis in the West have only seen a country that was close to civil war, with huge qabil influence at the time. The everyday people in Somalia today doesn't really think about clan first thing in the morning only whens my next meal.
the only ones that believe the status quo of 4.5 are qabilist themselves who benefit

 

[DR OSMAN]

Japan was military occupied to change, they lost power to decide. America took over completely. There isn't many successful democracies anywhere in the world outside of the white man's world. Look at even India, it's simply doesn't work. There is like 99% fail rate with democracy outside the western world and your telling me your going to completely ignore that statistic and think you will 'beat the odds'? You simply need to look around Africa to see how democracy has benefited it, turned it into the poorest nations in the world.

 

[DR OSMAN]

You can't copy other people systems unless u share something in culture. The arabs and ottomans copying each other shared something in common 'religion' that was their culture at the time. Could they copy each other today? no way, since religion isn't the sole identity in their society. For example nationalism has taken shape in turkey which trumps religion over identity.

The west could copy America, since they share the same culture in terms of individualism which they had to grow since the 1600s turning their societies from tribal to capitalistic individualistic societies. They had a-lot of wealth which they could achieve that because they conquered pretty much the and unknown world and gained a-lot of resources in the process. Where-as the non western world simply doesn't enjoy that capital to turn it's people into individuals and therefore age old institutions will always linger on and slapping a democracy on top of it is just going to clash with those age old institutions. You need money to turn people into individuals and not rely on tribal, religious, nationalistic or any other social barrier and if you haven't got that, then your age old institutions will still be rampant and applying a democracy on top of that will simply clash, the ppl who vote won't vote for ideas but vote along their age old institutions and that's why their democracies never picks up. Their age old institutions will turn the govt into a banana republic where corruption is rife because they don't believe in the system cause the age old institutions are still much stronger in the land due to socio-economic reasons.