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Somalia economy size

I was just looking at this 2024 economic import and although you've mentioned several times @Idilinaa its onlh now that ive feel like ive fully internalized how off they're calculations are on gdp. I mean they literally calculated by adding everything else and then subtracting all imports to 4% . If even a decent chunk of these imports are like you said just somali companies based elsewhere in countries like the uae being logged as imports then we'd be easily looking at possibly 10% growth rates.


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Even importing near $12 billion dollars worth of goods amd devices is probably an underestimate since I doubt they had acess to data from berbera. Still the massive almost 30% growth in imports from 2023 to 2024 is llikely is a sign of increasing economic growth.
 
Why do you believe Somalia's GDP is inaccurate? It's a largely dollarized economy, and the majority of the federal government's budget comes from outside sources. Its imports and exports are well documented as well.

GDP = Consumption + Investment + Government Spending + (Exports - Imports)

Investment is easy to track, so is government spending. Imports are subtracted from GDP because they aren't produced within the economy, they’re brought in from another country and count toward the exporting country's GDP.

So what exactly is your gripe with Somalia's GDP figure? Where specifically do you think the numbers are inaccurate? It seems that much of your issue stems from a conceptual misunderstanding of what GDP is and what it measures.
 
Why do you believe Somalia's GDP is inaccurate? It's a largely dollarized economy, and the majority of the federal government's budget comes from outside sources. Its imports and exports are well documented as well.

GDP = Consumption + Investment + Government Spending + (Exports - Imports)

Investment is easy to track, so is government spending. Imports are subtracted from GDP because they aren't produced within the economy, they’re brought in from another country and count toward the exporting country's GDP.

So what exactly is your gripe with Somalia's GDP figure? Where specifically do you think the numbers are inaccurate? It seems that much of your issue stems from a conceptual misunderstanding of what GDP is and what it measures.
They only calculated it using spending and even then they dont really have good data . They're only really accurate data is the imports/exports and govt expenditure.

Its also obviously incredibly off simply due to the fact that Kenya with a $130 billion dollar gdp imports about $24 billion dollars worth of goods and services. If we import basically 50% of the amounts of goods and services of an economy supposedly 10 times are size. That should be ringing alarm bells.
 
They only calculated it using spending and even then they dont really have good data . They're only really accurate data is the imports/exports and govt expenditure.

Its also obviously incredibly off simply due to the fact that Kenya with a $130 billion dollar gdp imports about $24 billion dollars worth of goods and services. If we import basically 50% of the amounts of goods and services of an economy supposedly 10 times are size. That should be ringing alarm bells.
You're right it should be ringing alarm bells. The fact that Somalia imports almost 50% as much as Kenya is a catastrophe. The difference between you and me is that you see this as either being implausible, or that Somalia is actually wealthier than the data suggests. I see it as Somalia being a tragically unproductive import dependent economy.

For the full picture, we also need to look at each country’s exports. Kenya exported $14 billion worth of goods and services last year, while Somalia managed only around $2.4 billion. So we import almost half as much as Kenya, but export only 20% as much.

Data Source for Export Figures: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NE.EXP.GNFS.CD?locations=KE-SO
 
You're right it should be ringing alarm bells. The fact that Somalia imports almost 50% as much as Kenya is a catastrophe. The difference between you and me is that you see this as either being implausible, or that Somalia is actually wealthier than the data suggests. I see it as Somalia being a tragically unproductive import dependent economy.

For the full picture, we also need to look at each country’s exports. Kenya exported $14 billion worth of goods and services last year, while Somalia managed only around $2.4 billion. So we import almost half as much as Kenya, but export only 20% as much.

Data Source for Export Figures: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NE.EXP.GNFS.CD?locations=KE-SO
I dont dispute that we dont export that much. But you should ask yourself where is the money for all these imports coming from ?
When you combine that with the relatively high prices of salaries that idnilla posted from diffrent parts of somalia you get the picture that there is obviously a much larger economy that what we see on paper.

Ultimately $80-100 billion dollars of yearly economic activity isnt that big. Without foreign loans and companies none of rhe countries with economies around that size would have the infrastructure that we see.
 
You will lose half your brain cells if you try to process the numbers the government or IMF put out and people parrot at face value.

Not only is export/import massively under-reported, but look at the ratio: we’re somehow expected to believe Somalia imports 9–10 billion worth of goods with an “official” GDP of 12 billion. That’s 75%. thats mathematically incompatible , it simply does not add up.

There’s a reason for this. Somalia’s imports/exports are not well documented. At all.

A huge share of the economy is invisible to the formal data system
• massive informal cross-border trade
• huge off-book port transactions
• entire sectors uncounted (livestock, construction, telecom, fisheries, quarrying, transport, energy)
• and most importantly, Somali-owned companies based abroad importing goods to themselves

Somali conglomerates operate from the UAE, Kenya, Ethiopia, Oman, Turkey, etc.
When they import goods into Somalia, the system counts it as foreign imports, not Somali capital.
So what happens?

Imports (M) get inflated. GDP gets deflated. Somalia looks poorer than it actually is.

This is the problem with the formula:
GDP = HFCE + G + I + (X − M)

They subtract imports even though many of those “imports” are literally Somali-owned capital and inventory moving through foreign-registered companies.
So Somalia ends up penalized by its own diaspora’s transnational business structure.

And you can tell this is happening because, contrary to what @Maintainnnin keeps repeating, Somalia’s trade is not “well documented.” There is no comprehensive trade data.

The World Bank openly states:
“Comprehensive trade statistics are difficult to acquire.”
Translation: They don’t have real import/export data. They have fragments.
1763536901149.png


What they actually rely on is mirror trade statistics: they ask other countries what they exported to Somalia and then treat that as Somalia’s import data.

This alone guarantees huge distortion because:
• partner countries misreport
• they report differently
• some report nothing
• some classify Somali-owned firms as their own “domestic” importers
• and most of this comes through Kenya, Djibouti, and UAE , all with incomplete records

So the final dataset is not Somali data at all. It’s a patchwork of partner country errors that gets dumped into Somalia’s GDP formula.

On top of that, I don’t buy @Maintainnnin ’s “Somalia is unproductive” argument.
Imports don’t mean collapse. They reflect wealth and demand.

Even in the 1980s, Somalia’s domestic production was growing and they were running surpluses, yet imports were rising fast and economists at the time found it “paradoxical.”
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Turned out it was driven by urban demand and increased purchasing power.
Same thing today, but worse because they don’t have accurate domestic production data to compare it with.

And @Midas is correct: if you look at what Somalis import, it reflects rising wealth, not production collapse.

I don’t have the time to debate this endlessly, so I’ll just paste what I wrote earlier:
Imports are not just money leaving the country, they reflect economic growth. Much of what is imported gets converted into capital, hard physical assets for fueling business expansion, services, and urbanization:
Now let’s come back to Somalia’s imports, because you narrowly focus on ‘food imports’ (which are heavily influenced by climate shocks) but miss the fact that manufactured goods make up a large bulk of all imports. In 2018, over a quarter of imports were machinery and transport equipment, 18% were chemical products, and the rest were other manufactured goods such as textiles, electronics, luxury cars and construction materials. These aren’t subsistence items , they reflect business expansion, capital accumulation, and rising urban consumption.
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If Somalia were truly operating at the bare minimum subsistence level, its import profile would be dominated by food staples. Instead, the fact that such a large share of imports is tied to machinery, industrial inputs, and consumer goods shows that there’s significant purchasing power and capital investment happening.

In other words, food import doesn’t erase the evidence of consumer wealth and urban-driven economic activity. Somalia’s economy is more complex than the ‘poor country with sugar imports’ framing allows.
The consumer boom shows that they have rising purchasing power as well, it also translates to bigger GDP. It shows large parts of the money stays and circulates in the economy.


You are right. It started in the 1980s when they shoehorned remittances as the main explanatory factor even though the total volume available was too small compared to the actual monetary flow being observed. They simply couldn’t explain it any other way. The figure they had at the time was 30 million.
1763538797370.png

It’s strange because if you look at other countries with large diasporas , like China, India, the Philippines, or Nigeria , they all receive significant remittances, yet those are never treated as the defining feature of their economies. The Chinese diaspora alone sends around $49 billion annually, and no one reduces China’s economic story to that.
As shown in that text you shared with China, a lot of imports are capital goods and industrial materials (like coated flat-rolled iron, synthetic fibers, and machinery), not just consumer items. That indicates productive reinvestment and business expansion, not simple dependency.
Then the other one will be the household consumption figures its like 16 times higher than government expenditure and its the figures they themselves give. So there is no way they can claim Somalis are aid dependent.

There is a also a lot of internal contradiction with the gov publication.

It makes no sense to claim remittances finances imports. Remittances mostly go to household consumption , food, rent, education , not bulk import financing. Businesses pay for imports using foreign exchange earned through trade, investment, hawala networks, or reinvested diaspora capital.

Also Aids and Grants makes no sense either. They do not enter private trade channels, they usually go through government budgets or NGOs, not importers or retailers.
They don't seem to realize that Somalia's macroeconomic structure is trade and investment-led not remittances dependent.

To simplify everything I wrote above:


In a normal economy:
  • imports correlate with production capacity
  • import growth follows rising incomes
  • poor, low-income economies import very little (because they can’t afford to)

But Somalia imports:
  • cars
  • construction materials
  • fuel
  • industrial equipment
  • electronics
  • food
  • machinery
  • pharmaceuticals
  • telecom infrastructure

This is not the import profile of a $12-billion economy.

It’s the profile of a much larger, much wealthier, heavily urbanized, capital-intensive economy.
 
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To simplify everything I wrote above:


In a normal economy:
  • imports correlate with production capacity
  • import growth follows rising incomes
  • poor, low-income economies import very little (because they can’t afford to)

But Somalia imports:
  • cars
  • construction materials
  • fuel
  • industrial equipment
  • electronics
  • food
  • machinery
  • pharmaceuticals
  • telecom infrastructure

This is not the import profile of a $12-billion economy.

It’s the profile of a much larger, much wealthier, heavily urbanized, capital-intensive economy.

Basically, a subsistence economy does not import machinery, steel, telecom towers, solar grids, excavators, luxury cars, high end electronics, and industrial inputs at this scale. Those patterns only appear in countries with:

  • significant urban demand
  • strong business formation
  • expanding construction sectors
  • rising consumer purchasing power
  • active private investment
  • transnational diaspora driven capital flows

Somalia’s import composition tells a completely different story. The numbers the IMF and government publish simply don’t reconcile with the on the ground economic behavior.
 
Since I don’t have time to keep going back and forth on this, people can read the conversation we already had in the NTP thread:

Here:
https://www.somalispot.com/threads/...lan-ntp-2025-2029.178550/page-11#post-4387969

And here:

One of the biggest issues with Somalia’s economic statistics is that they aren’t based on direct measurement. Almost everything is derived from models, estimates,assumptions , imputations, proxy indicators, fragments, or partial surveys and mirror data from other countries. On top of that, the Somali economy is overwhelmingly private sector driven, not government led, so using government expenditure as the main reference point will always underestimate the true scale and activity of the economy.

Basically, Somalia’s GDP is not produced by directly observing what happens in the economy.
 
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Do they include service based economy when calculating the gdp of Somalia such as internal transactions

They don't, they just rely on outdated belief that most of the Somali economy is agricultural or livestock base when its in reality service and trade oriented. Even in the agricultural/livestock sectors they have no reliable data either in terms of production according to the World Bank:
1763548399162.png


Many sectors are unaccounted for.

But you can see the composition of the economy much like the composition of the imports that i pointed to , that most are employed in the service sector 56% and a substantial portion in the industrial sector at 18% and agriculture employment is 26%.
1763548586332.png
 
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You will lose half your brain cells if you try to process the numbers the government or IMF put out and people parrot at face value.

Not only is export/import massively under-reported, but look at the ratio: we’re somehow expected to believe Somalia imports 9–10 billion worth of goods with an “official” GDP of 12 billion. That’s 75%. thats mathematically incompatible , it simply does not add up.
This isn’t unique to Somalia, why do you act like it’s an anomaly? Many countries have a high import to GDP ratio. For example, Djibouti has an import-to-GDP ratio of 134%, the UAE 95%, Belgium 85%, and Hungary 76%. I could go on. The difference between these countries and Somalia is that they also have high exports as a percentage of GDP. As a result, their high import ratios don’t negatively impact their GDP figures like it does for Somalia.

Somali conglomerates operate from the UAE, Kenya, Ethiopia, Oman, Turkey, etc.
When they import goods into Somalia, the system counts it as foreign imports, not Somali capital.
So what happens?

Imports (M) get inflated. GDP gets deflated. Somalia looks poorer than it actually is.

This is the problem with the formula:
GDP = HFCE + G + I + (X − M)

They subtract imports even though many of those “imports” are literally Somali-owned capital and inventory moving through foreign-registered companies.
So Somalia ends up penalized by its own diaspora’s transnational business structure.
If a Somali company is registered in a foreign country, pays taxes in that foreign country, has workers in that foreign country, then nothing about is Somali other than the people who own it, and it therefore won't count towards Somalia's GDP but towards the foreign country's GDP. It does not matter if they import into Somalia through a local subsidiary, it's still a foreign company.

Imagine a Somali company like Hass Petroleum, which is headquartered in Nairobi, but operates in Somalia, being counted as a domestic Somali company, despite paying corporate taxes in Kenya and having the majority of its workforce based there, simply because it is Somali-owned. That would be nonsensical.

You will lose half your brain cells if you try to process the numbers the government or IMF put out and people parrot at face value.

And you can tell this is happening because, contrary to what @Maintainnnin keeps repeating, Somalia’s trade is not “well documented.” There is no comprehensive trade data.

The World Bank openly states:
“Comprehensive trade statistics are difficult to acquire.”
Translation: They don’t have real import/export data. They have fragments.
View attachment 378162

What they actually rely on is mirror trade statistics: they ask other countries what they exported to Somalia and then treat that as Somalia’s import data.

This alone guarantees huge distortion because:
• partner countries misreport
• they report differently
• some report nothing
• some classify Somali-owned firms as their own “domestic” importers
• and most of this comes through Kenya, Djibouti, and UAE , all with incomplete records

So the final dataset is not Somali data at all. It’s a patchwork of partner country errors that gets dumped into Somalia’s GDP formula.

This is not the import profile of a $12-billion economy.

It’s the profile of a much larger, much wealthier, heavily urbanized, capital-intensive economy.
So because economic statistics are difficult to gather for Somalia and there may be some inaccuracies, you think the data on Somalia’s GDP is off by a factor of 10x? A $12 billion economy with a measly export value of $2.4 billion is actually a $100 billion economy? A country with one of the lowest Human Development Index scores in the world, where nearly 4 million people are internally displaced due to conflict, drought, and floods, where there is no rail infrastructure and no national power grid, has a GDP per capita of $5,000 USD? This is exactly why I can't take anything you say seriously when it comes to economics.
 
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This isn’t unique to Somalia, why do you act like it’s an anomaly? Many countries have imports that make up a significant share of their GDP. For example, Djibouti has an import-to-GDP ratio of 134%, the UAE 95%, Belgium 85%, and Hungary 76%. I could go on. The difference between these countries and Somalia is that they also have high exports as a percentage of GDP. As a result, their high import ratios don’t negatively impact their GDP figures like it does for Somalia.

Lmaaooo no waay you made that comparison.

Countries like
, Belgium, UAE, Djibouti, Hungary are not comparable to Somalia .They are major re-export hubs . Their imports look huge because they import goods and immediately re-export them.

Belgium ---> EU logistics hub
UAE --> free zones, entrepôt trade
Djibouti ---> transit hub for Ethiopia
Hungary ---> EU manufacturing/assembly → re-exports

Somalia is not classified as a re-export or transit hub economy in official datasets.

So the comparison fails. Furthermore those countries have complete and highly accurate trade data but Somalia does not.

Thirdly your logic ignores the core issue. Somalia’s imports do not match the income level or GDP structure. A low-income, $12B GDP country importing $9–10B of goods is either unprecendented, mathematically inconsistent or only explainable if GDP is undercounted, imports are misclassified, or off-book capital flows exist

Comparing Somalia to wealthy trade hubs doesn’t refute that.


If a Somali company is registered in a foreign country, pays taxes in that foreign country, has workers in that foreign country, then nothing about is Somali other than the people who own it, and it therefore won't count towards Somalia's GDP but towards the foreign country's GDP. It does not matter if they import into Somalia through a local subsidiary, it's still a foreign company.

Imagine a Somali company like Hass Petroleum, which is headquartered in Nairobi, Kenya but operates in Somalia, being counted as a domestic Somali company, despite paying corporate taxes in Kenya and having the majority of its workforce based there, simply because it is Somali-owned. That would be nonsensical.

Hass Petroleum isn’t even the type of company I’m talking about.
I’m referring to Somali-owned conglomerates that are registered and based in Somalia but also maintain offices abroad (UAE, Kenya, Djibouti, Turkey, Oman, China, etc.).

1763550387535.png



Let me show you what i mean:
1763550599089.png



Here is another one has offices in different places:
1763550641157.png


1763550810894.png

1763551334421.png


1763550859111.png



I can go on and on with examples. They do this to reach international markets and bypass trade barriers.
because they:
  • use the UAE as a re-export and logistics hub,
  • bypass trade barriers and sanctions,
  • access global banking systems,
  • manage shipping routes,
  • and negotiate directly with foreign suppliers.

That doesn’t make them ‘foreign companies’.
It makes them international Somali companies operating out of multiple jurisdictions , just like any multinational.

And crucially: Even when part of their operations occur abroad, the capital value, profits, supply chains, and business activity overwhelmingly flow back into Somalia because these firms are vertically integrated.

This means:
  • they import everything from fuel to machinery for Somali markets,
  • they reinvest profits into Somali real estate, logistics, construction, and telecom,
  • they employ Somalis,
  • they operate Somali-owned supply chains,
  • and they generate economic activity inside Somalia that isn’t captured by official statistics.

So your argument about “registered abroad = foreign GDP” completely misses the point.
These firms are Somali, they operate in Somalia, and their economic value is created for Somalia but the accounting system assigns large parts of their activity to other countries simply because of where some paperwork is filed.

That is exactly the distortion we’re talking about.

So because economic statistics are difficult to gather for Somalia and there may be some inaccuracies, you think the data on Somalia’s GDP is off by a factor of 10x? A $12 billion economy with a measly export value of $2.4 billion is actually a $100 billion economy? A country with one of the lowest Human Development Index scores in the world, where nearly 4 million people are internally displaced due to conflict, drought, and floods, where there is no rail infrastructure and no national power grid, has a GDP per capita of $5,000 USD? This is exactly why I can't take anything you say seriously when it comes to economics.

Somalia has improved in all sorts of indicators in an extremely fast rate if you look at how electricity rate was only 15% in 2012 and now its 60%-80%, but all the things you listed , droughts, floods, displacement, low HDI, lack of railways are social and infrastructural indicators, not direct economic measurements. They don’t determine GDP size, they reflect development challenges.

The US has droughts, fires, floods, and large homeless populations.

India has one of the lowest HDI rankings relative to its GDP size. Nigeria has massive displacement but still has a $477B economy.

None of those examples prevent people from having a large, active private sector or a high volume of trade.

What affects Somalia’s GDP measurement are missing domestic production data, massive informal trade, re-export distortions, foreign registered Somali firms counted as “imports” or "their exports are counted somewhere else" ,mirror statistics from countries that misreport, an economy that is 90% private sector but measured through government-led models and various sectors of the economy are not fully captured.

Also the 4000-5000 GDP estimation per capita that i made comes from direct income statements and househould budget expenditure measurements we made first hand by looking at how much Somalis need to earn to pay for groceries, rent, fuel, electricity, water etc.

Its the same as what the Economist Vali Jamal did in the 1980s:
375340

375342



Exactly what i said in my response to @Thegoodshepherd .


I remember others in this thread that contested it was @Maintainnnin and @Karim


So even back in the 1980s Somalia was actually a middle income country in reality and was by all means quite well off than most African countries, although the issues with inflation and currency devaluation was a real thing , it didn't make them poor because it was augmented by the rise in incomes and domestic production and private sector investment that was support by an influx of external funds.
He even gave figures: in 1984, the shilling was 17 to the dollar. The urban poverty line was 6,990 Sh/month ($1,208 in today’s inflation adjusted terms), food poverty was 4,990 Sh ($863), and extreme poverty was 4,000 Sh ($692). These figures were based on their own consumer price index and direct household expenditure surveys, not IMF guesswork.
The current Somali government has yet to do this which is base minimum income on a consumer price index, because this is how you survey a household budget. They did essentially what Barkhadle did in the "Somali GDP is False " thread. Instead they rely on indirect inferences and guesswork .

Mind you at the time they were trying to tell people that Somalia's GDP per capita was 100 dollars a year and this was less than half of what people would pay for bare essentials in a month.
1763555114163.png
 
Lmaaooo no waay you made that comparison.

Countries like
, Belgium, UAE, Djibouti, Hungary are not comparable to Somalia .They are major re-export hubs . Their imports look huge because they import goods and immediately re-export them.

Belgium ---> EU logistics hub
UAE --> free zones, entrepôt trade
Djibouti ---> transit hub for Ethiopia
Hungary ---> EU manufacturing/assembly → re-exports

Somalia is not classified as a re-export or transit hub economy in official datasets.
You did not comprehend my initial point, you just reworded it. Yes, countries like Belgium, Hungary, and the UAE are re-export hubs. That’s precisely why their large import volumes don’t distort their GDP, because they also export heavily, often close to or exceeding what they import. If they did not re-export, and instead ran a large and persistent trade deficit like Somalia, then their GDP figures who have been negatively impacted.
This isn’t unique to Somalia, why do you act like it’s an anomaly? Many countries have a high import to GDP ratio. For example, Djibouti has an import-to-GDP ratio of 134%, the UAE 95%, Belgium 85%, and Hungary 76%. I could go on. The difference between these countries and Somalia is that they also have high exports as a percentage of GDP. As a result, their high import ratios don’t negatively impact their GDP figures like it does for Somalia.
That's the highlighted part of my original sentence above.👆


Thirdly your logic ignores the core issue. Somalia’s imports do not match the income level or GDP structure. A low-income, $12B GDP country importing $9–10B of goods is either unprecendented, mathematically inconsistent or only explainable if GDP is undercounted, imports are misclassified, or off-book capital flows exist

Comparing Somalia to wealthy trade hubs doesn’t refute that.
You are correct that an impoverished country like Somalia can not sustain $9 Billion worth of imports on a $12 billion GDP by itself, and that is because it doesn't. Somalia is an aid dependent country. The country receives more than $2 billion just in remittences every year. That money is injected into the economy which then supports consumption and imports, not from the productivity of the country itself, but as extracted productivity from other countries via the Somali diaspora.

There is also aid from the UN and developed countries. For example the United States alone provided more than $1 billion in aid for fiscal year 2024, how do you think that money enters the economy? When there is a drought or flood and livestock dies or crops for that year fail, supplemental food aid is imported into the country to prevent famine. When development aid is provided so a road can be built, the capital equipment needed to build it has to be imported.

So in conclusion, the billions in remittances and foreign aid help sustain a level of consumption and imports that Somalia’s domestic economy alone could not support. That is what you're not taking into account.


I don't have time to look into your other points as of now so I'll come back to them later.
 
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One of the probelsm of comparing with comparing somalia with our neighbors is the difference between somalia's economy and that of other African countries. For example every other east African country has about basically 70-80% of their pouplation which is rural subsistince farmers who own on avg 1-2 acres of land.

That land outside of places near towns or cental kenya is probably not even sellable and might get the person 1-2k usd at best. Whereas a somali nomad/rural person has the option of selling their livestock and getting at least $1,000 dollars for a single camel .
 
I estimate Somalia’s true GDP to be approximately $25–35 billion. There is no way Ethiopia has a higher GDP per capita than Somalia not a chance.
 

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