Somali political party primaries in Somalia

[Ras]

Since we're obviously won't have one person per vote in Somalia anytime soon why can't a political party run its own internal primary?

Since general elections are controlled by the warlords and foreign interests we need to find a way around it that doesn't involve full out revolution.

A Somali political party should be able to run a nationwide primary to pick it's party leader like the current Democratic primary in the US.

One person per vote in every state including Somaliland.

Since this isn't a general election the governments don't have to get involved and aren't able to sabotage it.


This would give the leader who wins the mandate to rule from the people instead of a couple hundred cab drivers and pirates.

That leader would also have the political support to push for transparency in the next general election at the very least.


The party could even be temporary and made up of members with different political views and could be disbanded once it's job is done; putting a democratically election leader in the presidential seat.

 

[SomaliMVP]

Where would you get the funding to pull this off?

 

[Ras]

Where would you get the funding to pull this off?

Elections aren't that expensive. Usually around $10-$20 per voter in the west.

Although it'll be a lot cheaper in Somalia we'll still need to fund the necessary infrastructure that's currently missing (ID & educating voters).

For 5 million voters that less than $100 million.

I'm fairly sure we can push that down to 30 million through volunteers and other types of donations (free rent of voting locations, printing materials and etc).

Might seem like a lot but that's tiny compared to the value gained.

I'm sure you could persuade plenty of rich Somalis and a huge chunk of the diaspora to chip in.

They could even make it out as a loan from donaters if they get in power since governments ought to be paying for this stuff.

I wouldn't mind donating thousands of dollars if it leads to rule of law in Somalia where I can safely invest without having to deal with warlords as politicians.

 

[TheAnswer]

too expensive and logistically demanding. These parties are broke

 

[Ras]

too expensive and logistically demanding. These parties are broke

The only other option is to hope that those warlords in Xamar will run a legit nationwide election out of the kindness of their hearts?

 

[TheAnswer]

The only other option is to hope that those warlords in Xamar will run a legit nationwide election out of the kindness of their hearts?

i dont believe we need elections

 

[Ras]

i dont believe we need elections

I would prefer a benevolent dictator in Somalia but I'm afraid it's more likely we'd end up with the wrong person in charge.

Even if we get lucky and end up with a Paul Kagame it won't last long before there's a coup and some idiot or foreign puppet takes over.

Democratic institutions are more stable over the long term even if they're volatile in the short term.

 

[Tukraq]

lets not get ahead of ourselves although I firmly believe parties and opposition are crucial for any democracy, we need to first start having an actual constitution setup ideally a federal one that like you said includes SL and all the other states, from there we can work on the schematics of primaries for parties although there should always be an independent ballot for those not wanting to go through the the party system, nor should there be limits on numbers of those that can run or requirements other than being a somali citizen and over 35

 

[Ras]

lets not get ahead of ourselves although I firmly believe parties and opposition are crucial for any democracy, we need to first start having an actual constitution setup ideally a federal one that like you said includes SL and all the other states, from there we can work on the schematics of primaries for parties although there should always be an independent ballot for those not wanting to go through the the party system, nor should there be limits on numbers of those that can run or requirements other than being a somali citizen and over 35

Expecting the warlords in charge to agree on a fair constitution is like wolves discussing dinner with sheep.

They'll delay or sabotage it.

It's been 20 years since the "reconciliation" conferences started and 60 years since the creation of the temporary provisional constitution that we currently have.

If they haven't done shit yet how long are we expected to wait while they profit from the chaos?

The political party that I'm referring to isn't an opposition party but an organization creatdd to run an election that will let us get a dozen competent real presidential candidates in a televised debate.

In those debates they can discuss their ideas for the constitution and plans for developing the country.

They'll have a whole year to present their ideas.

The winner(s) get put forward as a candidates in the next real election with the full support of the population.


The whole point is to let the people pick a candidate in this independent election since we won't have any general election anytime soon.

It'll most likely be a quick two days event where the candidates would have a 30 mins speech and then everyone goes in the backroom to make deals.

At least this time the Somali population would be properly educated on at least a couple of the candidates.

If some random unknown guy or some known incompetent corrupt politicians wins then you know the game is fixed and the people have the justification to finish of the civil war we started in the 90s.

 

[Tukraq]

Expecting the warlords in charge to agree on a fair constitution is like wolves discussing dinner with sheep.

They'll delay or sabotage it.

It's been 20 years since the "reconciliation" conferences started and 60 years since the creation of the temporary provisional constitution that we currently have.

If they haven't done shit yet how long are we expected to wait while they profit from the chaos?

The political party that I'm referring to isn't an opposition party but an organization creatdd to run an election that will let us get a dozen competent real presidential candidates in a televised debate.

In those debates they can discuss their ideas for the constitution and plans for developing the country.

They'll have a whole year to present their ideas.

The winner(s) get put forward as a candidates in the next real election with the full support of the population.


The whole point is to let the people pick a candidate in this independent election since we won't have any general election anytime soon.

It'll most likely be a quick two days event where the candidates would have a 30 mins speech and then everyone goes in the backroom to make deals.

At least this time the Somali population would be properly educated on at least a couple of the candidates.

If some random unknown guy or some known incompetent corrupt politicians wins then you know the game is fixed and the people have the justification to finish of the civil war we started in the 90s.

the idea about opposition was the need for opposing parties which is crucial for a democracy you don't want a one party gov I can go on about the importance of this/dissagrement/gridlock to better represent and give a diversity of ideas represented for all of the countries inhabitants, as for the regional states I don't see them as the issue there doing what there supposed to be doing politically speaking for their regions its the fgs that has to swallow its ego and come up with a proper representative government that benefits and represents all the people, we shouldn't be trying to take the power away from the states but incorporating a system in which there included and are the core of and not dictated to like in those failure Govs of the past your mentioning

 

[TheAnswer]

I would prefer a benevolent dictator in Somalia but I'm afraid it's more likely we'd end up with the wrong person in charge.

Even if we get lucky and end up with a Paul Kagame it won't last long before there's a coup and some idiot or foreign puppet takes over.

Democratic institutions are more stable over the long term even if they're volatile in the short term.

How can democratic institutions be effective if there is not a mass population of middle income literate people to hold them accountable?

 

[Tukraq]

the idea about opposition was the need for opposing parties which is crucial for a democracy you don't want a one party gov I can go on about the importance of this/dissagrement/gridlock to better represent and give a diversity of ideas represented for all of the countries inhabitants, as for the regional states I don't see them as the issue there doing what there supposed to be doing politically speaking for their regions its the fgs that has to swallow its ego and come up with a proper representative government that benefits and represents all the people, we shouldn't be trying to take the power away from the states but incorporating a system in which there included and are the core of and not dictated to like in those failure Govs of the past your mentioning

i dont believe we need elections

what the difference between a dictator and warlords? there the same, a dictator is out of the question now in somalia after the civil war, as the populace will never allow it to happen and that failed idea of dictatorship/strict centralism will lead to perpetual never ending war between warring tribes in somalia as it should as theres no reason for these clans to be subject to it

 

[Ras]

How can democratic institutions be effective if there is not a mass population of middle income literate people to hold them accountable?

The intelligentsia and business communities will hold them accountable.

However if you setup your institutions correctly then it should start to consistently lead to good behavior.

You might hear about all sorts of horror stories about governance in the US but at least is a hundred times better than any African country.

That's all due the foundations laid by its institutions.

Also this is where the constitution comes in.

If you let a sitting government draft it then they'll grant themselves loopholes or unlimited power

However if you present your version of the constitution as part of your campaign manifesto then you're more likely to make it just and fair.

This way we'll get a selection of some decent constitution drafts.

All which should keep the next government in line more than any institution.

However to get those institutions or a good constitution you either need to get lucky with a smart benevolent dictator or let the public choose a government.

Neither we'd get in the current system.

Maybe we could scale this election system down to state and municipal primaries.

Like an independent election organization who's results aren't binding/official but initially a lot more credible than the official elections.

So instead of one elected leader we'd have a whole government full of elected representatives in major key positions.

From city council auditors to state governers and MP's even.

Once a government gets actually elected using the political party we can disband it and then use its structure to return the electoral commission and future elections.

 

[Ras]

the idea about opposition was the need for opposing parties which is crucial for a democracy you don't want a one party gov I can go on about the importance of this/dissagrement/gridlock to better represent and give a diversity of ideas represented for all of the countries inhabitants, as for the regional states I don't see them as the issue there doing what there supposed to be doing politically speaking for their regions its the fgs that has to swallow its ego and come up with a proper representative government that benefits and represents all the people, we shouldn't be trying to take the power away from the states but incorporating a system in which there included and are the core of and not dictated to like in those failure Govs of the past your mentioning

Like I already mentioned; I wasn't talking about the concept of an opposition party.

This party is just a tool to organize an unofficial "one person one vote" elections nationwide without having to get FGS involved.

A primary just like the Democratic party is currently running.

The candidates get to go on multiple televised/live streamed debates and present their ideas for a constitution, government structure and development plans to millions of Somali voters.

If they win this unofficial election they'll be likely to win the next official elections with the support of the population behind them.

 

[Tukraq]

Like I already mentioned; I wasn't talking about the concept of an opposition party.

This party is just a tool to organize an unofficial "one person one vote" elections nationwide without having to get FGS involved.

A primary just like the Democratic party is currently running.

The candidates get to go on multiple televised/live streamed debates and present their ideas for a constitution, government structure and development plans to millions of Somali voters.

If they win this unofficial election they'll be likely to win the next official elections with the support of the population behind them.

well if theres a hypothetical democratic party there should be a hypothetical Republican Party, and also independent slots, no more selections lol, ever somali over the age of 35 should be allowed to be on the ballot and they shouldn't be restricted due to a deep state, let the people decide

 

[repo]

I wouldn't want them to vote. They can't read or write, it wouldn't take a genius to appeal to their base instincts. Any moron who jumps up and says "we need to embrace Islam, down with Ethiopia and secure the borders" would be voted in.

The population would be too stupid to understand basic policies, fiscal or otherwise and they wouldn't care. The moment something goes wrong they will burn tires in the streets, side with their tribe and topple the government cause life just isn't precious there. The clan system as is provides better stability than the alternative as long as the people are poor and stupid.

 

[Ras]

I wouldn't want them to vote. They can't read or write, it wouldn't take a genius to appeal to their base instincts. Any moron who jumps up and says "we need to embrace Islam, down with Ethiopia and secure the borders" would be voted in.

The population would be too stupid to understand basic policies, fiscal or otherwise and they wouldn't care. The moment something goes wrong they will burn tires in the streets, side with their tribe and topple the government cause life just isn't precious there. The clan system as is provides better stability than the alternative as long as the people are poor and stupid.

Unfortunately clan politics is also somewhat Democratic.

The leaders and elders get voted in by even less transparent processes and they are just as affected by populism.

Inter clan politics would always be at a standstill for the same reason.

If one clan does well then the others will group up and oppress them.

Those clan leaders are usually the worst types of fake politicians who are more opportunist than statesmen.

At least with nationwide democracy we'll have a set of laws to limit the powers of the leaders and how they get picked.

The business community will end up rulling things behind the scenes and limit it to a duopoly of two parties like in most stable developed countries.

That dumb population that you're referring to would also be allowed to pick between candidates a or b which have already been preselected by business elites.

In a clan system they can't do that and it'll end up with the worst types of people in charge.... I.e. crooks who persuaded their clan to give them the position through bribery, nepotism or by force.

Just look at the leaders in the clans in Somalia today. Which of them would you want to Lord over you?

 

[repo]

Unfortunately clan politics is also somewhat Democratic.

The leaders and elders get voted in by even less transparent processes and they are just as affected by populism.

Inter clan politics would always be at a standstill for the same reason.

If one clan does well then the others will group up and oppress them.

Those clan leaders are usually the worst types of fake politicians who are more opportunist than statesmen.

At least with nationwide democracy we'll have a set of laws to limit the powers of the leaders and how they get picked.

The business community will end up rulling things behind the scenes and limit it to a duopoly of two parties like in most stable developed countries.

That dumb population that you're referring to would also be allowed to pick between candidates a or b which have already been preselected by business elites.

In a clan system they can't do that and it'll end up with the worst types of people in charge.... I.e. crooks who persuaded their clan to give them the position through bribery, nepotism or by force.

Just look at the leaders in the clans in Somalia today. Which of them would you want to Lord over you?

So a 2 tier system where pre-selected candidates that are voted in by the populace?

Business/intelligentsia select MPs > Populace vote

 

[Tukraq]

So a 2 tier system where pre-selected candidates that are voted in by the populace?

Business/intelligentsia select MPs > Populace vote

I highly disagree f*ck Business/intelligentsia

 

[Ras]

So a 2 tier system where pre-selected candidates that are voted in by the populace?

Business/intelligentsia select MPs > Populace vote

Just like how the US system works.

You can't run in elections without donations and the committees you are allowed to apply for are also based on your level of donations.

Financial donations signify implicit endorsement by the real people in charge... Corporations and other interests groups.

Sure it'll lead to conflict of interests but it's a system that works by keeping power mad populist politicians in check.

Mainly because it's in the interests of those groups to have a strong economy and a somewhat stable governance over the long term.

As a large shareholder in the Somali economy I would probably want stability so that my assets would continue to have value.

Those civil group members would also lose their status in society if things turn chaotic again...

Give these people a reason to protect the rule of law and the status quo of a stable developing Somalia and then make them king makers.

If they fail then the first to lose out would be them.