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Somali Men, Who Would You Choose

Who do you desire more?

  • A

    Votes: 19 32.8%
  • B

    Votes: 39 67.2%

  • Total voters
    58

Factz

Factzopedia
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Let's start the dismantling of yet another farce from you.

The ancient city states of Opone and the like were indeed situated in the locations mentioned. However, no scholar ever states that these sites were founded by Somalis but rather civilisations pre=dating Somalis by over 1000 years as the architecture and sea travel routes indicate that these were societys established by Himarites (Yemenis), Axumites, Indians and other civilisation. Completely foreign to any Somali society.

You're trying to tell me that Somalis built these cities in Muqdisho but somehow got destoryed and waited for Reer Xamar to buold new settlements? That makes no sense.

All the sources we have on these ancient city states are Greek travellers and nothing else. No scholar or wikipedia page attributed these civilisations as Somali.

The fact that these were nearly all coastal towns and not towns withing the mainland makes it obvious. And we all know Somalis were nomads. They didn't start to travel until the medieval period.

The names themselves, 'Sarapions' and 'Mosylon', are Greek names. As @Shanshiyo1234 said before 'Sarapions' was named aftter Greeks.

Unless u can explain to me how a nomadic/pastoralist civilisation was building ships and going to Yemen. :farmajoyaab:

The next most likely thing is they were connected to a culture fron ancient Punt which could explain the architecture.

For example, south Italy had influential Greek states/powers before the Romans even existed. Those Greek settlements are still there today.

Anyway, it concludes, we know next to nothing to these civilisations and were certainly not built by Somali stock.


Now you're wasting my time....

This goes completely against the resources and facts I sent which make it CLEAR that there were Arab as well as Perisan enclaves along many more. You're a joke. Show me the title to the text you're screenshotting cus now you're just blatantly lying....

"According to I.M. Lewis, the polity was governed by local dynasties consisting of Somalized Arabs or Arabized Somalis, who also ruled over the similarly-established Sultanate of Mogadishu in the Benadir region to the south."

“The only seaports of importance on this coast are Feyla [Zeila] and Berbera; the former is an Arabian colony, dependent of Mocha, but Berbera is independent of any foreign power."

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berbera)


Sorry dude but you're quoting the narration of an unknown scholar who is very wrong :camby::camby::camby:



lmao nobody cares and nobody asked. This has nothing to do with the topic. You think that bringing up other sultanates is gonna make your argument better? :mjlol:

There's hundreds of empires who did the same if not more than what Ajuuran did. The most famous achievemnt of Ajuuran is pushong back the pagan Oromo migration...that's it. Other than that it had very small lands. Nothing special tbh.


I already disproved thatttttttt what;s wrong with you? :deadosama:

You keep writing walls of text. The coast was owned by ajnabi sultanates especially Berbera which was an Arab colony. I showed u proof above. :comeon:

The end.

In the ned all u could do is give pointless info. Wether u like it or not, Berbera and Zeila were owned by Arabs and Berbera was a colony. Ajnabis controlled the south too.

Stop trolling. Anymore walls of text from u are getting instantly qashined and ignored. You deny facts presented to u and reply back with the same, already disproven, quotes.




Mental illness. Not a single source, just paragraphs again.

Let me remind you not all Somalis were nomads. There were coastal Somalis who are mainly traders and you have Somali farmers from the Rahanweyn tribe. There were even urban Somali centers in the ancient and medieval period.

The Somali city-states are in Greek records. Mogadishu, Merca, Barawa, Berbera, Zeila and other cities existed prior to Islam and they all flourished. They traded with ancient kingdoms around the world. Basically, debunk your lies that these cities were founded by foreigners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Somali

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_city-states

You have the ancient Somali ship called Beden built by the Somali city-states.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beden

The link you have posted does not mention the two sources you have posted but this is what Berbera Wikipedia article says.

Berbera was a powerful and well built city that served as a major harbor port for various of powerful Somali Kingdoms in the Middle Ages like the early Adal Kingdom, Ifat Sultanate and Adal Sultanate.[11] It also made Zeila the regional capital due to the latter's strategic location on the Red Sea.

The source you posted was Egypt that nominally ruled Zeila and Berbera for the spam of four years but historically, they didn't physically rule it. Egypt was claiming Istanbul too. This was during the 19th century. We're talking about the medieval period.

In fact, the Egyptians never set foot in Berbera and Zeila nor did our sultans give them Bay'ah as you can see from these sources. The Egyptian denied controlling Berbera and Zeila.





According to Ibn Sa'id who was a medieval traveller stated Zeila and Berbera were predominantly Somalis and rulers of these cities.



He also stated Mogadishu, Merca and Barawa were predominantly Somalis and rulers of these cities.



Source: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=GWjxR61xAe0C&pg=PA139&dq=zeila+predominantly+somali&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiX8oOwpYvmAhUWRxUIHePIABoQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=zeila predominantly somali&f=false

Ifat Sultanate was a northern Somali Muslim Sultanate headquartered in its capital Zeila.



Source: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ltanate was a somali muslim sultanate&f=false

Then you had Ajuran that ruled the south and you are clearly ignorant of their achievements. What I show you aren't even half of their contribution. It was far superior to Abyssinia and one of the best civilizations in medieval Africa.

 
What we can learn from @Factz is that if u knowo you're cornered and can't reply back with any real arguments do one of these:

1) Post the same repetitive walls of text in hope that he gets u bored and uninterested to the point u forget and leave the thread.

2) completely ignore the facts given to you with a source and quotations and saying things like "u didn't provide a source" when in fact he he's the only one that doesn't.

3) Go for insults like "you're insane" at the start of your pointless walls of text as if it makes your argument any better and/or in an attempt to devalue the other person's argument.

@Factz you are a master at this. You don't need to quote sources like me when u can just spam walls of text.
 

Factz

Factzopedia
VIP
What we can learn from @Factz is that if u knowo you're cornered and can't reply back with any real arguments do one of these:

1) Post the same repetitive walls of text in hope that he gets u bored and uninterested to the point u forget and leave the thread.

2) completely ignore the facts given to you with a source and quotations and saying things like "u didn't provide a source" when in fact he he's the only one that doesn't.

3) Go for insults like "you're insane" at the start of your pointless walls of text as if it makes your argument any better and/or in an attempt to devalue the other person's argument.

@Factz you are a master at this. You don't need to quote sources like me when u can just spam walls of text.
That is your reply after you have been debunked. By the way, you have posted 0 facts.

Also says the one who posted the same source several times and conflating its time period and is not even documented. I tried looking books for it but it's not there while all mine are academically researched.

All you ever do is write down paragraphs without showing a shred of evidence. You only quoted one source that isn't even found in Wikipedia but I gave you a history lesson what that source meant. Conflating medieval and early modern history. I've published many sources and you denied them saying they're "miccrosoft edits" so I linked you books. What is your excuse now?
:mjlol:

Listen buddy, history is not your thing. Troll something else.
 
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@Factz I proved u wrong. You don't even have the decency to @ me with any real arguments.

@Ayubi @Robin @Furioso I invite u to see my response to him. It;s clear that Reer Xamar made Muqdisho.

@Factz you're finished. @Ayubi bring a better challenger this guy got smoked already kkkk
You are the most delusional troll i've ever seen. Where are your sources? Say wikipedia one more time and i will log in and edit the whole ethiopia page to spread lies like you and other weirdos like you obviously have the time to do.

Man comes in with wikipedia sources like they can't be edited. Who hurt you bruh? why are you so obsessed with somalis? your not one of those minorities in somalia that thinks they can pull a "WE WUZ KANGS" on somali history are you?

What will you do once we start archeological work in somalia and find even more evidence to back up our claims?

:damn::pachah1:
 
Mental illness. Not a single source, just paragraphs again.
Nah at this point you're just a retard. There's no way someone can be as blind and obtuse as you. You're the only one who hasn;t provided any relevant sources, if any at all.

Let me remind you not all Somalis were nomads. There were coastal Somalis who are mainly traders and you have Somali farmers from the Rahanweyn tribe. There were even urban Somali centers in the ancient and medieval period.
Complete lie with no source. Somalis were never sea traders until the beginning of the medieval period. The fact that Reer Xamar came to Muqdisho and there were NO Somali sea travellers communitites is just further proof. Somalis were either nomads or pastoralists or herders.

Nearly all parts of the coast were utilised founded by foreigners. Berbera being an Arab colony is just scratching the surface.

The Somali city-states are in Greek records. Mogadishu, Merca, Barawa, Berbera, Zeila and other cities existed prior to Islam and they all flourished. They traded with ancient kingdoms around the world. Basically, debunk your lies that these cities were founded by foreigners.
Another deviation and delusion....

Guess I'll repeat myself again. All those cities were founded by ajnabis and were named by the Greek travellers that went there. "Sarapion" and "Opone" for example is a Greek name as stated by @Shanshiyo1234 before shifting to the current Somali names.

Those wikipedia links u sent are clearly edited by delusional Somali nationals and don't mane any connection to current Somalis at all. When I gave u multiple links from wikipedia stating that Reer Xamar founded the current Muqdisho, Berbera being an Arab colony, and other cities being controlled by ajnabis, u decided to go against these facts....but when it comes to a kingdom we know nothing of and has no connection to current Somali cutlure.people u coose to blindly believe it.,..clear sign of a psycopath and hard denial.

You're a retard (sorry not sorry)

You have the ancient Somali ship called Beden built by the Somali city-states.
Again, that's from 3000 BCE Somaliland. Clearly not a Somali civilisation but was closer to Punt which was started in Eritrea n Sudan and moved south to clonise Somaliland's coast.

Hey genius u see a pattern? How all these ancient settlements are at the coast of all places. I think u know what I mean. lol

The link you have posted does not mention the two sources you have posted but this is what Berbera Wikipedia article says.

Berbera was a powerful and well built city that served as a major harbor port for various of powerful Somali Kingdoms in the Middle Ages like the early Adal Kingdom, Ifat Sultanate and Adal Sultanate.[11] It also made Zeila the regional capital due to the latter's strategic location on the Red Sea.

The source you posted was Egypt that nominally ruled Zeila and Berbera for the spam of four years but historically, they didn't physically rule it. Egypt was claiming Istanbul too. This was during the 19th century. We're talking about the medieval period.
Another lie. Here, I'll gladly re-post the sources.

"According to I.M. Lewis, the polity was governed by local dynasties consisting of Somalized Arabs or Arabized Somalis, who also ruled over the similarly-established Sultanate of Mogadishu in the Benadir region to the south."

This man called Lewish was referring to 8th-10th century!!! this confirms Zeila being kickstarted by Arabs and other early Muslims. Somalis were only in the process of being converted to Islam at the time. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeila)

“The only seaports of importance on this coast are Feyla [Zeila] and Berbera; the former is an Arabian colony, dependent of Mocha, but Berbera is independent of any foreign power."


I will repeat it to u again @Factz the first quote refers the first couple centuries of Islam getting introduced to northern Somalia. There's no excaping it :westbrookswag:

The coast was a colony of Arabs and other Muslim powers. Just face it.
According to Ibn Sa'id who was a medieval traveller stated Zeila and Berbera were predominantly Somalis and rulers of these cities.
THAT DOESN'T MATTER. They were still founded and developed by Arabs and other Muslims. You are truly 68. How many times do I need to repeat?

According to Ibn Sa'id who was a medieval traveller stated Zeila and Berbera were predominantly Somalis and rulers of these cities.

:chrisfreshhah::drakelaugh::mjlol:

Nowhere does it state that it was ruled by Somalis kkkkk

ALL U CAN RELY ON IT "B-B-BUT THEY WERE MAJORITY SOMALI" :pachah1:

He also stated Mogadishu, Merca and Barawa were predominantly Somalis and rulers of these cities.

ANOTHER ONE LMAO

upload_2019-11-27_23-18-7.png]]

:ulyin::ulyin::ulyin::ulyin::ulyin:


Ifat Sultanate was a northern Somali Muslim Sultanate headquartered in its capital Zeila.
Why are u mentioning Ifat out of nowhere? First of all Ifat was led by the Walashma dynasty which has Arab roots and was a xabesha Muslim dynasty. Most of the territory was in Ethiopia barely any of it was in Somalia

upload_2019-11-27_23-20-46.png

:camby:

The only real native Somali sultanate is Ajuran. Adal and Ifat were Harla/Harari/Belew/Afar led. Somalis were just a large portions of their armies.
 
You are the most delusional troll i've ever seen. Where are your sources? Say wikipedia one more time and i will log in and edit the whole ethiopia page to spread lies like you and other weirdos like you obviously have the time to do.

Man comes in with wikipedia sources like they can't be edited. Who hurt you bruh? why are you so obsessed with somalis? your not one of those minorities in somalia that thinks they can pull a "WE WUZ KANGS" on somali history are you?

What will you do once we start archeological work in somalia and find even more evidence to back up our claims?

:damn::pachah1:
Kiddo please you're even less knowledgeable than @Factz . I dealt with u in toher threads stop tryiing to get my attention.
 

Factz

Factzopedia
VIP
Nah at this point you're just a retard. There's no way someone can be as blind and obtuse as you. You're the only one who hasn;t provided any relevant sources, if any at all.


Complete lie with no source. Somalis were never sea traders until the beginning of the medieval period. The fact that Reer Xamar came to Muqdisho and there were NO Somali sea travellers communitites is just further proof. Somalis were either nomads or pastoralists or herders.

Nearly all parts of the coast were utilised founded by foreigners. Berbera being an Arab colony is just scratching the surface.


Another deviation and delusion....

Guess I'll repeat myself again. All those cities were founded by ajnabis and were named by the Greek travellers that went there. "Sarapion" and "Opone" for example is a Greek name as stated by @Shanshiyo1234 before shifting to the current Somali names.

Those wikipedia links u sent are clearly edited by delusional Somali nationals and don't mane any connection to current Somalis at all. When I gave u multiple links from wikipedia stating that Reer Xamar founded the current Muqdisho, Berbera being an Arab colony, and other cities being controlled by ajnabis, u decided to go against these facts....but when it comes to a kingdom we know nothing of and has no connection to current Somali cutlure.people u coose to blindly believe it.,..clear sign of a psycopath and hard denial.

You're a retard (sorry not sorry)


Again, that's from 3000 BCE Somaliland. Clearly not a Somali civilisation but was closer to Punt which was started in Eritrea n Sudan and moved south to clonise Somaliland's coast.

Hey genius u see a pattern? How all these ancient settlements are at the coast of all places. I think u know what I mean. lol


Another lie. Here, I'll gladly re-post the sources.

"According to I.M. Lewis, the polity was governed by local dynasties consisting of Somalized Arabs or Arabized Somalis, who also ruled over the similarly-established Sultanate of Mogadishu in the Benadir region to the south."

This man called Lewish was referring to 8th-10th century!!! this confirms Zeila being kickstarted by Arabs and other early Muslims. Somalis were only in the process of being converted to Islam at the time. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeila)

“The only seaports of importance on this coast are Feyla [Zeila] and Berbera; the former is an Arabian colony, dependent of Mocha, but Berbera is independent of any foreign power."


I will repeat it to u again @Factz the first quote refers the first couple centuries of Islam getting introduced to northern Somalia. There's no excaping it :westbrookswag:

The coast was a colony of Arabs and other Muslim powers. Just face it.

THAT DOESN'T MATTER. They were still founded and developed by Arabs and other Muslims. You are truly 68. How many times do I need to repeat?


:chrisfreshhah::drakelaugh::mjlol:

Nowhere does it state that it was ruled by Somalis kkkkk

ALL U CAN RELY ON IT "B-B-BUT THEY WERE MAJORITY SOMALI" :pachah1:


ANOTHER ONE LMAO

View attachment 83090]]

:ulyin::ulyin::ulyin::ulyin::ulyin:



Why are u mentioning Ifat out of nowhere? First of all Ifat was led by the Walashma dynasty which has Arab roots and was a xabesha Muslim dynasty. Most of the territory was in Ethiopia barely any of it was in Somalia

View attachment 83091

:camby:

The only real native Somali sultanate is Ajuran. Adal and Ifat were Harla/Harari/Belew/Afar led. Somalis were just a large portions of their armies.
You're repeating the same nonsensical erroneous paragraphs I have already debunked and provided you authentic source and given you a clear explanation.
:gucciwhat:

You're both intellectually dishonest and have reading comprehension or just a retarded troll.

Anyways, have a good day. Our ratings speak for itself. I am done wasting my time with someone so hopeless as you.
 
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@Factz got debunked again. Not gonna insult u buddy but just move on from history. You don't know how to make relevant points. You ignore the opponent's sources. You lie way too much for my liking, this is why people in the past have found u to to be annoying.

Posting walls of text isn't gonna cover for ur lack of basic knowledge. The more u troll and lie the more I'll embarass you through simple fact checking.

:samwelcome:

I think you'd do pretty well in the qashin section though. The don't require IQ above 68 over there.
 
You're repeating the same nonsensical erroneous paragraphs I have already debunked and provided you authentic source and given you a clear explanation.
:gucciwhat:

You're both intellectually dishonest and have reading comprehension or just a weird troll.

Anyways, good day. Our ratings speak for itself. I am done wasting my time with someone so hopeless as you.
Nope. You're the only one here repeating misinformation.

All my points are backd by linked sources and highlighted key points.

Just accept the fact that wikipedia and the whole world knows that Reer Xamar was established by Banadiris. Also, Zeila and other coastal areas were colonies and ruled by ajanbis such as Arabs and xabesha Muslims/Hararis.

Imagine trying to go against established facts written on wikipedia with dishonest walls of text.

:farmajoyaab:

@Factz has proven that 68 IQ is real. Ciao.
 
:mjlol: oh look. How did I know? It seems like wikipedia only lies about Somalis cus I've never seen any other ethnic complain about wikipedia supposedly lying 90% of the time :pachah1:


Hmmm you also posted that text. Where is that text from? Cus it seems to downplay Reer Xamar heavily and go against the narrative. How can Muslims tax fellow Muslims? This is clearly bogus text made by trolls

Also a "preexisting Somali population" doesn't mean anything. It just means that ajnabis came and built the city even though the locals were already there, basically outclassing them. So yeah, it still doesn't disprove the claim that ajnabis kickstarted the city and it makes sense, the architecture is clearly foreign, Somalis never built higher than a 1 story building. Not cooning just being honest. Nomadic populations don't built stuff like that. Just sayin...

It's like saying the native Americans founded the USA because they were there before Europeans came. lmao.


Again, mostly Somali could mean around 30% were foreign or summ. ALSO it still doesn't debate my point, them being Somali majority doesn't mean ajnabis didn't give life to the cities and/or founded them. All u just did was highlight a sentence that said "Somalis were majority"...and??? You see what I mean? That blank statement saying Somalis were majority doesn't mean anything.

They could've been ajnabi majority first and then Somalis moved in too.


Again, being majority Somali doesn't mean anything m8. Everyone knows that Zeila and Berbera were OWNED by Arabs/Muslim ajnabis during Medieval period. This is a FACT my dear friend @Factz

This next quote refers to Zeila in Adal period:

"According to I.M. Lewis, the polity was governed by local dynasties consisting of Somalized Arabs or Arabized Somalis, who also ruled over the similarly-established Sultanate of Mogadishu in the Benadir region to the south."

:pachah1::hemad:

This quote is talking about Berbera and Zeila in the 18th-19th Century:

“The only seaports of importance on this coast are Feyla [Zeila] and Berbera; the former is an Arabian colony, dependent of Mocha, but Berbera is independent of any foreign power."

:pachah1: :hemad:

Does it hurt yet? :westbrookswag:


But on a real all argument is "these areas were majority Somali" and nothing more.

Buuut if u can prove to me the first pic, the one that says ajnabis were made to pay tribute, I'll gie u a point there. But otherwise, wikipedia is indeed correct. Rejoice @Shanshiyo1234

@Knowles this is real history right here :sass2:

@Furioso what do u think of my analysis? :)
This should have ended the whole discussion though. So proud of this karbashing :ahh:
 

Factz

Factzopedia
VIP
Nope. You're the only one here repeating misinformation.

All my points are backd by linked sources and highlighted key points.

Just accept the fact that wikipedia and the whole world knows that Reer Xamar was established by Banadiris. Also, Zeila and other coastal areas were colonies and ruled by ajanbis such as Arabs and xabesha Muslims/Hararis.

Imagine trying to go against established facts written on wikipedia with dishonest walls of text.

:farmajoyaab:

@Factz has proven that 68 IQ is real. Ciao.
Stop quoting me loser. You have already lost this debate, anyone can see it.

I have given you a source Benadiris were refuuges and merchants. They did not found or built anything. That was the Ajuran Sultanate.

I have given you a source that the Walashma Dynasty was a Somali dynasty that ruled both Ifat/Adal and its capital was Zeila.

You have only given me one source that states Egyptians ruled Zeila and Berbera but it was only four years during the 19th century yet the Egyptian government denied it. I have already given you that source.

Every nonsensical garbage you threw at me has been debunked by academics. I have also linked you those books.

Now stop quoting me you dirty midget Xabashit who is jealous of Somali culture and history.
 
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Stop quoting me loser.

I have given you a source Benadiris were refuuges and merchants. They did not found or built anything. That was the Ajuran Sultanate.

I have given you a source that the Walashma Dynasty was a Somali dynasty that ruled both Ifat/Adal and its capital was Zeila.

You have only given me one source that states Egyptians ruled Zeila and Berbera but it was only four years during the 19th century yet the Egyptian government denied it. I have you that source.

Every nonsensical garbage you threw at me has been debunked by academics. I have also linked you books.

Now stop quoting me you dirty midget Xabashit jealous of Somali culture and history.
Dude you've been disproven and debunked to oblivion enough for today...get off my **** please :gucciwhat:

History and wikipedia is on my side. Reer Xamar was founded by Banadiris and the most important Somalis coasts were ruled and/or colonies of ajanbis such as Arabs and Muslim xabeshas.

Even Merca's founder is Arab ffs :mjlol:

upload_2019-11-27_23-43-11.png

https://www.britannica.com/place/Marca

:salute:
 

Factz

Factzopedia
VIP
Dude you've been disproven and debunked to oblivion enough for today...get off my **** please :gucciwhat:

History and wikipedia is on my side. Reer Xamar was founded by Banadiris and the most important Somalis coasts were ruled and/or colonies of ajanbis such as Arabs and Muslim xabeshas.

Even Merca's founder is Arab ffs :mjlol:

View attachment 83094

https://www.britannica.com/place/Marca

:salute:
That's a blog mate. I can make up my own blog.

I bring you books while all you bring is blogs.

You're a waste of time.
 
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