Bari it doesn’t take 15-30 mins. You clearly don’t clean and or can’t clean. 15-30 mins is a quick tidy up. I even mentioned that if you’re living alone you don’t have to clean everyday. So I don’t know what people who live alone have anything to do with the conversation.
Somali men have been babied by their mothers
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I'm gonna be honest, I didn't even read the thread lol. I wasn't even talking about women with kids that's another story. I was just referring to the women who think cooking and cleaning is equivalent to a full days work. The real labor is in child rearing.
If the chores are evenly divided, it's not tiring (even if you're the only one doing them, it wont be). There are dishwashers (I dont even use it as I find it therapeutic to use my hands) and robotic vacuum cleaners now. Breakfast can be cereal, microwaveable oatmeal, etc. You can prepare meats and cut up vegetables and freeze them for the next three days. You can clean a room per day. You're not efficient.
It shouldn't be tiring for a stay at home mom as well.
You can make your coffee at work.
By your own admission, you have an Indian maid now (I think they're a step above a slave but that's another topic for another day).
Chores are not supposed to be tiring. It's clear I do alot more than you and I'm not tired. Respectfully, you may have a health matter like low iron. Or maybe you work with bad coworkers that exhaust you.
Yeah a lot of people here are definitely using strawmans it is ceeb
How so? Do you believe citizens in khaleeji countries having servants is a form of persecution?
They are paid like shit. All the service workers there barely make ends meet and live a dozen to an apartment.
Are they paid by the employer on a case-by-case basis or is there some corporation that handles all of it? Are there minimum wage laws in the Khaleej?
When you’re working and kids are in the picture it’s tiring. I don’t know anyone who’ll claim it isn’t apart from you and you’re only saying that because you like to argue. From now on breadwinner men have no reason not to do chores as it’s easy and isn’t tiring.
Yes, she could. But we’re not going to lie and say that getting hardly any sleep and getting young kids ready before work and then doing another 8 hrs isn’t tiring. It’s obvious you simply want to argue. Soon you’ll tell me child birth is easy and so is breastfeeding. There isn’t an ounce of honesty in you. I also do not believe you’re a father of many kids who works and does chores as you wouldn’t have time to be here. I work in tech, so on my laptop, have cleaners ect which is why I can be on here. You’re full of it and can see right through you. A working mother or father who actually does child rear and look after a home aren’t on this forum. You’re a troll Abdi.
Not Indian and she comes a few times a week. I thought chores weren’t tiring. So
How am I enslaving her?
Chores have always been tiring which is why People are meant to help each other. Like I said you like to argue. It’s tiring when you’ve been up on your feet since 6 and can’t rest straight after work because you have kids to feed and a house to quickly tidy. Raising kids isn’t easy. But you being the troll that you are will say it is.
Men have a lot of free time compared to women. Life is only not fun for mothers it seems. Men having more free time is a fact. Even househusbands have more free time than a breadwinner wife, yet a housewife doesn’t have more free time than a breadwinner husband.
We can all see through your B.S.
I'm not sure about the first question. Lol @ minimum wage. Their service workers are extremely badly paid and work under terrible conditions. Not to mention, it is expensive to live there. If you want to lose faith in humanity, you should visit and talk to the service workers there. I guess it's slightly better than life rural Pakistan but it still leaves a bad taste in your mouth considering how much wealth is there.
I am having a hard time understanding what exactly you do if you have your own personal maid to clean your house.
I cook food, work and run my own side business. I lead a productive life in which I don’t have to think about scrubbing a toilet when I could be making money, and going to the gym.
I’m not talking about myself. I’m in the ME. My whole point was about Western women with kids who also get no help. I’m in an incredibly privileged position at the moment. No way am I talking about myself.
You too have a lot of free time. You wouldn’t be able to go back forth all the time if you were a full time parent. I don’t believe you. Even a mother with a maid wouldn’t be able to do what you do. I’d be with my kids.
You have a very easy life. Western women get help. Not every man is a deadbeat.
@Dualke at me saying I was ignoring this. I was ignoring this thread. It's midnight. I have free time.
Hardly. Western women are working and doing the bulk of the cooking and cleaning and men have way and I mean way more free time. Whilst many wives are putting in the same amount of money.
Let me tell you what shocked me. It doesn’t matter if a woman is a sole breadwinner, she still does a lot of housework, yet the rules are different for a man who is the sole breadwinner. He hardly does anything. A kept man who stays home does way less than a kept housewife who is also at home.
What does that tell you Abdifreedom?
Please I’ve seen you go back and forth with me for hours. I a woman with no kids, who doesn’t clean and has a living sitting in front of a screen can do that. A father of 5 who claims to be in a 50/50 relationship? And who also works. How do you have time in the day when kids require constant care and interaction?
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should a women expect her man to help with housework and child rearing and cooking?
Child rearing? Are you planning to have children and not looking after them?
If a woman is a housewife, she could expect that she’d do the bulk of the work, but you can’t live in a house and do nothing. Don’t have kids if you’re not going to there for them.
also, Islamically a woman doing all the cooking and cleaning is charity on her end. It isn’t the same as a man providing as madhabs believe that a man can’t force her to do everything. She isn’t your maid.
As a man when you’re providing it’s because when you got married you made a promise to her father that you’d know be in charge of her.
Exactly so as a Women in the west you would expect a man to take your kids out take them to school help with housework and cooking etc...
Therefore just as you expect your man to do something that he wouldn't need to do in another country he can expect you to do something you wouldn't need to do in another country.
Man takes up respoinsibilites that isn't his, caring for children alot and doing housework and cooking and anything else like that, and a women is expected to take up a resonsibility that isn't hers, namely working and contributing to the household. I don't see a problem with this.
and before you tell me men don't do that everytime I go out I see men by themselves taking out their kids and taking them to school and in the park with buggies, so men are doing alot more child caring now.
As a man, there is nothing in the deen to suggest that you shouldn’t help your kids. How is that connected to the West? Why even have children if you think taking them to school is a woman’s job bisinka.
The kids are yours. Don’t have kids if you’re not going to raise them. I get that a woman should more if she’s a housewife but that’s your own kids. Money isn’t enough. That’s one thing. Whilst a woman is literally giving her body AND she’s cooking ,cleaning, teaching them, nurturing them. How is that fair that you just do one thing and she gives her body, health and labour. How is that an equal exchange?
MashaAllah.
Your conflating 2 of my points.
All I said was, is a women in the west should be expected to work, if she isn't a mother and has freetime, in general.
if a women is a mother I don't think she should be expected to work.
Also, since you think it is a mans responsibilty to solely provide, do you really think women are alright with living in a lower socioeconomic area in the hood because she refuses to work and her husband is the sole provider? 99% of women I know would never accept this, and instead work and live in a better area, so in actuality women themselves want to work so they can support there better lifestyle. I don't see a problem with this as a man, she works and contributes and so do I, and that way we can live an easy lifestyle in the west.
Me being the sole provider would mean she is gonna live a very difficult life
Fair enough.
In all honesty, couples should do what’s best for the kids and what would give them a better life for them in general. I just think that men should have a provider mindset and their goal should be that they’re able to pay for most things for the family giving the wife the ability to focus on her kids and husband.
Yh you’re right. Some sort of compromise has to be made at times.
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