Somali-Bantu ethnicity tag

[Dhabaal]

Wait, how is race any better?! That's an audacious claim. Please, elaborate.

Its a valid claim to make. I am referring to race in Anthropological definition.

The purpose of a definition in sociological terms is to discuss groups with historical, social, mental, physiological, linguistic, cultural, similarities.

We have no hope of understanding anything if two polarized groups are collapsed into the same name.

In this case collapsing ''Bantu'' and ''Somali'' would just obfuscate things. It would also make the Somali name redundant in meaning and definition.

 

[The_Cosmos]

Its a valid claim to make. I am referring to race in Anthropological definition.

The purpose of a definition in sociological terms is to discuss groups with historical, social, mental, physiological, linguistic, cultural, similarities.

We have no hope of understanding anything if two polarized groups are collapsed into the same name.

In this case collapsing ''Bantu'' and ''Somali'' would just obfuscate things. It would also make the Somali name redundant in meaning and definition.

I'm sorry but how is chunking everyone under the same racial category going to change that? From a sociological perspective, it would make no sense. Also, what defines a race? It seems you're confusing race with ethnicity.

 

[Dhabaal]

Their nationality is Somali. You're purposely making things complicated. It's not very hard to recgnise that this is not a question about ethnic lines but a question about nationality. The demonym of Somali is both nationalistic and ethnic. For example, being Russian is not just a national term, it's also an ethnic term for ethnic Russians.

Well thats the distinction i am making . Nationalities are just the color of someone's passport, or the territories people pledge allegiance to.

'''Somali-Bantu'' on the other hand is an ethonym( i.e ethnic name) not a loosely used descriptive term to designate Ethnicity-Nationality.
http://www.persee.fr/doc/ethio_0066-2127_2003_num_19_1_1051

Simply speaking the Somali language, practicing the culture or holding a Somali passport does not make them in any shape or form Somali.

They would still be physically Bantu.

 

[Dhabaal]

I'm sorry but how is chunking everyone under the same racial category going to change that? From a sociological perspective, it would make no sense. Also, what defines a race? It seems you're confusing race with ethnicity.

So if i say Bantu and Chinese are the Same. ''Bantu-Chinese'' for instance, Would that be ok? Are they the same physiological , linguistically, socially and historical?

Thats why its important with a definition to distinguish that. Because it would be hella confusing and misleading lumping to separate groups in to the same name.

The point of a name is to help us understand.

 

[The_Cosmos]

Well thats the distinction i am making . Nationalities are just the color of someone's passport, or the territories people pledge allegiance to.

'''Somali-Bantu'' on the other hand is an ethonym( i.e ethnic name) not a loosely used descriptive term to designate Ethnicity-Nationality.
http://www.persee.fr/doc/ethio_0066-2127_2003_num_19_1_1051

Simply speaking the Somali language, practing the culture or holding a Somali passport does not make them in any shape or form Somali.

They would still be physically Bantu.

Now you're arguing for arguments sake. Nobody denied their Bantu status but we also acknowledged their claim to the land of Somalia. They're citizens of Somalia. I'm starting to feel like you simply don't want them to have that right. Somalia is a country and thus it has citizens which are classified as nationals. Somali Bantus are Somalis by nationality.

 

[Dhabaal]

Now you're arguing for arguments sake. Nobody denied their Bantu status but we also acknowledged their claim to the land of Somalia. They're citizens of Somalia. I'm starting to feel like you simply don't want them to have that right. Somalia is a country and thus it has citizens which are classified as nationals. Somali Bantus are Somalis by nationality.

I have never denied them being Citizens of Somalia. Just need to listen to what i am saying. Simply being a National of Somalia doesn't make them Somali.

Just like the other thousands of Somalis across the globe who speak European languages, eat European food, behave like Europeans, engage in Eurocentric understandings of religion are no closer to actually being European.

They still are physically Somali who are European in mentality and attitudes.

The cultures of Somali people extend beyond their physical geography and are informed not only by geography but also by physical ethnic traits.

 

[The_Cosmos]

So if i say Bantu and Chinese are the Same. ''Bantu-Chinese'' for instance, Would that be ok? Are they the same physiological , linguistically, socially and historical?

Thats why its important with a definition to distinguish that. Because it would be hella confusing and misleading lumping to separate groups in to the same name.

The point of a name is to help us understand.

A Chinese citizen of Bantu background is Chinese Bantu. Why's that hard to contemplate.

No! You're making this confusing. Why does you physiology and all the other things you've mentioned matter? It may matter to those who are doing a national consensus but to everyone else, it serves no purpose.

You're literally advocating for racial classification which in of itself is ludicrous. Biologically, races don't exist.

 

[Tramo]

u lump the 2 groups together because they lived in the same country for over 2 centuries

somali bantus are somali bantus and not egyptian bantus...because they live in somalia

the term somali bantu doesnt mean 'ethnic somali'. i feel like ur being deliberately obtuse

 

[The_Cosmos]

I have never denied them being Citizens of Somalia. Just need to listen to what i am saying. Simply being a National of Somalia doesn't make them Somali.

Just like the other thousands of Somalis across the globe who speak European languages, eat European food, behave like Europeans, engage in Eurocentric understandings of religion are no closer to actually being European.

They still are physically Somali who are European in mentality and attitudes.

The cultures of Somali people extend beyond their physical geography and are informed not only by geography but also by physical ethnic traits.

You've literally made what was a simple into complicated.

Nobody is claiming Somali Bantus are ethnic Somalis, they're Somali citizens. That's it. Their ethnic background is Bantu.

 

[Reign]

They crossed the Rubicon in the mid 19th century as slaves, and have since morphed into a vanguard for their eventual takeover of the Horn. There are now 1 million of them in southern Somalia, from 80,000 at the dawn of the civil war



If we do not learn from history, we will be their latest victim in their two millennia of brutal conquest and forced assimilation.

Saxiib we'll be alright. These Somali mothers are having at least 10 kids out here. We'll be fine.

 

[Sixth]

I think you're all misunderstanding @Dhabaal here, what he's trying to say is that when the hyphen is applied it joins the two modifiers
(Somali + Bantu) into a single modifier thus putting them on the same level. I think that's the point that he's trying to get across.

 

[Apollo]

Somalis Bantus are scientifically, biologically verifiably not Somali. Her opinions don't matter.

 

[Tramo]

I think you're all misunderstanding @Dhabaal here, what he's trying to say is that when the hyphen is applied it joins the two modifiers
(Somali + Bantu) into a single modifier thus putting them on the same level. I think that's the point that he's trying to get across.

i havent seen any hyphens used. it's usually just somali bantu. even if there was a hyphen, it wouldn't change the meaning of the term. it still literally means 'bantus from somalia' and not 'brand new version of ethnic somalis, in stores now' like he seems to understand it as

 

[Dhabaal]

u lump the 2 groups together because they lived in the same country for over 2 centuries

That doesn't make us the Same dafuq. There are several minorities in Somalia by they dont have Somali as an ''Ethonym Ethnic name. You know why because they are not Somali, it would be confusing otherwise.

somali bantus are somali bantus and not egyptian bantus...because they live in somalia

Simply living in Somalia does not make you Socially, historically,physiologically Somali. Its completely dishonest to say that something called ''Somali-Bantu'' exists

the term somali bantu doesnt mean 'ethnic somali'. i feel like ur being deliberately obtuse

What do you mean its not an Ethnic name? There litterally books written about it being just that

Bantu ethnic identities in Somalia
http://www.persee.fr/doc/ethio_0066-2127_2003_num_19_1_1051

it even states this on the first page.

Who are the "Somali Bantu"?: The Rise of a New Ethnicity
Dr. Orville Boyd Jenkins
http://orvillejenkins.com/peoples/somalibantu.html

it is misleading because there are no other variants to being ''Somali''.

 

[Galaeri]

They came to this land many centuries ago, despite being a different ethnic group they now have Somali Nationality. They have become naturalised somalis and that is not going to change. They are not less or more somali than anybody else.

 

[Sixth]

i havent seen any hyphens used. it's usually just somali bantu. even if there was a hyphen, it wouldn't change the meaning of the term. it still literally means 'bantus from somalia' and not 'brand new version of ethnic somalis, in stores now' like he seems to understand it as

I was trying to understand things from his angle and all but from the looks of it he's diving too deep into the hyphen/the way it's ordered and the thing is that not all countries follow the same order. You'll find that some tend to have the nationality first and the ethnicity/origins of where the person came from second e.g. British Somali (born in Somalia) or British-Somali (of Somali descent)

 

[Apollo]

If Somalia was called Bechuanaland there would still be Somali Bechuanalanders ('ethnic Somalis') vs ethnic Bantu Bechuanalanders ('Somali Bantus'). Falling under the same political jurisdiction does not make you belong to the same ethnic group.

 

[Dhabaal]

A Chinese citizen of Bantu background is Chinese Bantu. Why's that hard to contemplate.

Ok tell me a single non-indigenous group with ethonym (Ethnic name) Chinese-Etc, simply based off being ''National''. I'll wait.

No! You're making this confusing. Why does you physiology and all the other things you've mentioned matter? It may matter to those who are doing a national consensus but to everyone else, it serves no purpose.

You're literally advocating for racial classification which in of itself is ludicrous. Biologically, races don't exist.

I am using logic. You are talking like peoples identities are simply made up of a ''Passport'' and that is the only distinguishing factor.

No a definitions purpose in this case ''Somali'' is discuss people who have the Anthropological traits. That being Socially,physiologically, historically,linguistically, culturally,etc.

Yes i am advocating for racial classification, not in biological term, but from in Anthropological terms.

 

[Tramo]

I was trying to understand things from his angle and all but from the looks of it he's diving too deep into the hyphen/the way it's ordered and the thing is that not all countries follow the same order. You'll find that some tend to have the nationality first and the ethnicity/origins of where the person came from second e.g. British Somali (born in Somalia) or British-Somali (of Somali descent)

never knew that

If Somalia was called Bechuanaland there would still be Somali Bechuanalanders ('ethnic Somalis') vs ethnic Bantu Bechuanalanders ('Somali Bantus'). Falling under the same political jurisdiction does not make you belong to the same ethnic group.

forreal. this shit aint rocket science

 

[Galaeri]

They came to this land many centuries ago, despite being a different ethnic group they now have Somali Nationality. They have become naturalised somalis and that is not going to change. They are not less or more somali than anybody else.