Somali Atheist; what made you leave Islam?

[Asma]

Somali Atheist, I know you've been asked this question on numerous occasions. Nevertheless I wish you would indulge me and answer this question; what made you leave Islam? I am genuinely curious as to why. The more details on your journey the better.

Thank you all for obliging me and answering this question.

 

[Apollo]

They won't admit it, but their main reason is: Islam's bad reputation and terrorism.

 

[Asma]

They won't admit it, but their main reason is: Islam's bad reputation and terrorism.

Do you really believe that? Have you ever had any doubts with your faith? I apologise for the very personal question, like I said previously I am genuinely curious about this topic.

 

[Jujuman]

It's quite a difficult question it wasn't one thing which made me leave rather it was a multitude of factors with the Theory of Evolution being the nail in the coffin.

 

[supz]

They won't admit it, but their main reason is: Islam's bad reputation and terrorism.

bullshit. I was always a devout muslim and defended islam until 1 and a half years ago. It comes down to evidence and a lot of inconsistencies with islam. All Abrahamic religions are said to be syncretic in concept, because of borrowed knowledge from ideologies such as gnosticism. Islam and all religions are fabrications with one sole purpose, unification and the strengthening of communities for a means of control. The other reason was its incompatibility with the scientific theory of evolution.

 

[Jujuman]

They won't admit it, but their main reason is: Islam's bad reputation and terrorism.

Please stop making accusations from thin air it's very disrespectful. This religion was at one stage very dear to me.

 

[Asma]

It's quite a difficult question it wasn't one thing which made me leave rather it was a multitude of factors with the Theory of Evolution being the nail in the coffin.

Thanks for answering. Interesting about theory of evolution. I've heard some Muslims say that evolution isn't incompatible with Islam as long as you put Allah at the top of everything.

 

[Asma]

Please stop making accusations from thin air it's very disrespectful. This religion was at one stage very dear to me.

I don't buy what Amun is saying either, I think people can have genuine questions and doubts about their faith, which has nothing to do with being ashamed about gaalo talk about terrorism.

 

[Jujuman]

I don't buy what Amun is saying either, I think people can have genuine questions and doubts about their faith, which has nothing to do with being ashamed about gaalo talk about terrorism.

I'm 99% sure that everybody on here has at one stage or another questioned their faith. It's human nature to doubt things which are meant to believed on faith, not evidence.

 

[Asma]

I'm 99% sure that everybody on here has at one stage or another questioned their faith. It's human nature to doubt things which are meant to believed on faith, not evidence.

I think you are right, anyone who claims that they have never doubted their faith is probably lying.

 

[The_Cosmos]

I don't buy what Amun is saying either, I think people can have genuine questions and doubts about their faith, which has nothing to do with being ashamed about gaalo talk about terrorism.

Yes, I defended Islam ferociously in the face of all these allegations. In the end it came down to facing the reality of the world we live in. I had doubts ever since the age of 16 and it was based around the question of the existence of God and whether or not there is an afterlife. Terrorism didn't play any role or at least non that was significant. I would like to think it was purely rational.

My reasons for leaving Islam (simplified version) were as follows (not chronologically ordered):

1) There are over a thousand different religions and beliefs in the world and countless gods have been worshiped throughout history, what made my one special? I'm an atheist concerning 99% of gods.

2) The overwhelming majority of people follow the religions of their parents. Am I so foolish as to assume that the coincidence of being born Muslim equals Islam being true. I know that if I was born into a Christian family, I'd most likely be a Christian, if I wasn't born to Hindu parents I'd be Hindu and so on.

3) The pagan roots of Islam. The irony of Islam being OCD when it comes to monotheism and then being hit in the face with the pagan roots of salah, the Kaaba rites, Jinn/superstition and many more was shocking to say the least. The stories of Noah, Moses, Jesus and others, show stark resemblance to other mythical beings from older religions. For example, there's no doubt that Noah is just the mythical person Gilgamesh given a new name. Another example would be Jesus and the Egyptian God Horus. The two show too much resemblance. The virgin birth is a common myth throughout history. For example, Krishna was supposedly born from a virgin.

4) science! No evidence for Noah's flood, Moses splitting the sea, Muhammad splitting the moon or flying on a winged horse, Solomon speaking to animals and insects like ants, the stars being lamps in the sky made to adorn the lowest heaven (complete contradiction of scientific understanding) and so on. The list goes on.

5) Evolution. I tried to link evolution to Islam but there's no evidence from Islamic commentary and exegesis to interpret the Adam and Eve in a non literal manner. All the evidence shows that the story is supposed to be taken literally. I know it was Muslim scientists who first observed the relationship that all living things have witg one another and they even went as far as humans and monkeys (we never came from them but we share common ancestors), they're observations were scientific and thus has no basis on the religion perspective.

The list goes on...

 

[Asma]

Yes, I defended Islam ferociously in the face of all these allegations. In the end it came down to facing the reality of the world we live in. I had doubts ever since the age of 16 and it was based around the question of the existence of God and whether or not there is an afterlife. Terrorism didn't play any role or at least non that was significant. I would like to think it was purely rational.

My reasons for leaving Islam (simplified version) were as follows (not chronologically ordered):

1) There are over a thousand different religions and beliefs in the world and countless gods have been worshiped throughout history, what made my one special? I'm an atheist concerning 99% of gods.

2) The overwhelming majority of people follow the religions of their parents. Am I so foolish as to assume that the coincidence of being born Muslim equals Islam being true. I know that if I was born into a Christian family, I'd most likely be a Christian, if I wasn't born to Hindu parents I'd be Hindu and so on.

3) The pagan roots of Islam. The irony of Islam being OCD when it comes to monotheism and then being hit in the face with the pagan roots of salah, the Kaaba rites, Jinn/superstition and many more was shocking to say the least. The stories of Noah, Moses, Jesus and others, show stark resemblance to other mythical beings from older religions. For example, there's no doubt that Noah is just the mythical person Gilgamesh given a new name. Another example would be Jesus and the Egyptian God Horus. The two show too much resemblance. The virgin birth is a common myth throughout history. For example, Krishna was supposedly born from a virgin.

4) science! No evidence for Noah's flood, Moses splitting the sea, Muhammad splitting the moon or flying on a winged horse, Solomon speaking to animals and insects like ants, the stars being lamps in the sky made to adorn the lowest heaven (complete contradiction of scientific understanding) and so on. The list goes on.

5) Evolution. I tried to link evolution to Islam but there's no evidence from Islamic commentary and exegesis to interpret the Adam and Eve in a non literal manner. All the evidence shows that the story is supposed to be taken literally. I know it was Muslim scientists who first observed the relationship that all living things have witg one another and they even went as far as humans and monkeys (we never came from them but we share common ancestors), they're observations were scientific and thus has no basis on the religion perspective.

The list goes on...

I recently read a convincing article detailing that the origins of some of the methods of hajj is found in arab paganism. I was also watching a a documentary by a historian who was making the case that niqaab also has some pagan roots, I can't remember the name of the documentary it was on BBC.

However how does your atheism deal with concept of justice/fairness? For example how can it be that a child killer or rapist who escaped justice in this world, will have just gotten away it?

 

[The_Cosmos]

I recently read a convincing article detailing that the origins of some of the methods of hajj is found in arab paganism. I was also watching a a documentary by a historian who was making the case that niqaab also has some pagan roots, I can't remember the name of the documentary it was on BBC.

However how does your atheism deal with concept of justice/fairness? For example how can it be that a child killer or rapist who escaped justice in this world, will have just gotten away it?

However how does your atheism deal with concept of justice/fairness? For example how can it be that a child killer or rapist who escaped justice in this world, will have just gotten away it?

Yes, women did wear the niqab before the advent of Islam. I may be wrong, but I'll go as far as saying that it was popular.

Your question is a very good one but I have one issue with it, it resides on the narrative of wishful thinking. Just because you want something to exist, isn't an argument for its existence.

Well, justice is a subjective aspect that was created by societies to enforce their moral viewpoints. That does not mean it's meaningless however. The beauty of science is that it's not contained to just the material world. Morality and justice have evolutionary explanations that I have addressed and debated on here before. For example, a community of hunter gatherers in Africa during the dawn of our species would have required some sort of system to maintain stability within their own communities. Murder, rape, stealing and so on contributed to instability within the community and considering that these communities are vital to your survival, you're not going to let them fall apart. Justice is a direct cause of that moral viewpoint and the sort of justice that is implemented is testament to the environment of the people who came up with them. For example, the prophet was very harsh with his supposed 'justice' because, being a nomadic Bedouin, compromise was not enshrined within the environment. Nomadic societies are known for their warrior cultures.

Nonetheless, with the advent of the Geneva conventions, humans have taken a revolutionary step to universalise moral ethics. Before such a convention, slavery was rampant, in some societies, it was fine to kill people from other tribes and so on. To ensure world stability and stop future catastrophic wars, humanity has taken a massive leap to create a system that all people must live within.

 

[Lil Resse]

iss wassa you fucking cadaan lovin weirdos

 

[Asma]

Yes, women did wear the niqab before the advent of Islam. I may be wrong, but I'll go as far as saying that it was popular.

Your question is a very good one but I have one issue with it, it resides on the narrative of wishful thinking. Just because you want something to exist, isn't an argument for its existence.

Well, justice is a subjective aspect that was created by societies to enforce their moral viewpoints. That does not mean it's meaningless however. The beauty of science is that it's not contained to just the material world. Morality and justice have evolutionary explanations that I have addressed and debated on here before. For example, a community of hunter gatherers in Africa during the dawn of our species would have required some sort of system to maintain stability within their own communities. Murder, rape, stealing and so on contributed to instability within the community and considering that these communities are vital to your survival, you're not going to let them fall apart. Justice is a direct cause of that moral viewpoint and the sort of justice that is implemented is testament to the environment of the people who came up with them. For example, the prophet was very harsh with his supposed 'justice' because, being a nomadic Bedouin, compromise was not enshrined within the environment. Nomadic societies are known for their warrior cultures.

Nonetheless, with the advent of the Geneva conventions, humans have taken a revolutionary step to universalise moral ethics. Before such a convention, slavery was rampant, in some societies, it was fine to kill people from other tribes and so on. To ensure world stability and stop future catastrophic wars, humanity has taken a massive leap to create a system that all people must live within.

I've personally come to the conclusion that niqab has absolutely nothing to do with Islam. I was indifferent to it previously but I actively dislike it now, I think taking away a person's face is taking away their individualism and akin to taking away their humanity in a way. It is no coincidence that the two society whereby a majority of women wear niqab( Saudi and Afghanistan) place such restrictions on women. It is easy from them to treat women so bad because they see women as truly inferior. Anyways I digress; that's a topic for another day.

The point you make about communities coming up with their own moral laws because crimes ultimately hurt their own people, and it makes no sense to steal from your own community is a good point. However I cannot believe that people who commit heinous crimes in this earth and are undetected won't eventually get their comeuppance by Allah after their death.

You are right about humans making significant progress on morality in recent years, at least in terms of laws. For example a lot of Muslims like to argue that whilst Islam didn't ban slavery it encouraged the freeing of slaves and with that its gradual end. They also say that if Allah had ended slavery out right it would've caused social problems for slavers and slaves alike. However the west was able to end slavery almost abruptly and have been much more successful in making slavery illegal in their laws. On the other hand Muslim countries had to be almost dragged to stop slavery and some countries only stopped in latter part of the 20th century, which is very shameful. Today the only country where slavery is openly practised is Mauritania; a majority Muslim country. I also know that sex slaves still exist in western countries, however I am talking strictly about the laws and social norms of the country.

 

[Mckenzie]

@Asma pay no attention to these white washed anti slavery brigade folks, annoys the f*ck out of me when they bring it up, the US might have ended slavery hundreds of years ago, but their descendants couldn't vote or share a coffee house with whities until the mid 20th century and they've now just voted in a racist President who wants to block Muslims from entering the country.

Geneva Convention kulaha, and who exactly was consulted in this "convention"? Call it what it is, the white man's club.

 

[Asma]

@Asma pay no attention to these white washed anti slavery brigade folks, annoys the f*ck out of me when they bring it up, the US might have ended slavery hundreds of years ago, but their descendants couldn't vote or share a coffee house with whities until the mid 20th century and they've now just voted in a racist President who wants to block Muslims from entering the country.

Geneva Convention kulaha, and who exactly was consulted in this "convention"? Call it what it is, the white man's club.

Trust me I know all about the hypocrisy and evil acts of white people. I am not praising them at all, its just Muslims are suppose to be better because they have Islam. However its sad that in certain aspects Muslims are lagging behind.

 

[Ferrari]

I recently read a convincing article detailing that the origins of some of the methods of hajj is found in arab paganism. I was also watching a a documentary by a historian who was making the case that niqaab also has some pagan roots, I can't remember the name of the documentary it was on BBC.

However how does your atheism deal with concept of justice/fairness? For example how can it be that a child killer or rapist who escaped justice in this world, will have just gotten away it?

Hajj was a commandment first given to Abraham and he was not Arab, so how is its roots arab Paganism?

Are you in doubt of your religion? It's personal, so no pressure.

 

[Asma]

Hajj was a commandment first given to Abraham and he was not Arab, so how is its roots arab Paganism?

Are you in doubt of your religion? It's personal, so no pressure.

I just meant that even in the hadiths its mentioned that the pagan arabs use to do tawaaf and other aspects of hajj its just that they us to do for the idols and not for Allah. Im not 100% sure about that so feel free to correct me if Im wrong.

Like I said previously everyone has doubts, don't you? I admit I don't understand certain of aspects of Islam like how slavery is not only halaal but men can have sex with their slave girls.

 

[The_Cosmos]

I've personally come to the conclusion that niqab has absolutely nothing to do with Islam. I was indifferent to it previously but I actively dislike it now, I think taking away a person's face is taking away their individualism and akin to taking away their humanity in a way. It is no coincidence that the two society whereby a majority of women wear niqab( Saudi and Afghanistan) place such restrictions on women. It is easy from them to treat women so bad because they see women as truly inferior. Anyways I digress; that's a topic for another day.

The point you make about communities coming up with their own moral laws because crimes ultimately hurt their own people, and it makes no sense to steal from your own community is a good point. However I cannot believe that people who commit heinous crimes in this earth and are undetected won't eventually get their comeuppance by Allah after their death.

You are right about humans making significant progress on morality in recent years, at least in terms of laws. For example a lot of Muslims like to argue that whilst Islam didn't ban slavery it encouraged the freeing of slaves and with that its gradual end. They also say that if Allah had ended slavery out right it would've caused social problems for slavers and slaves alike. However the west was able to end slavery almost abruptly and have been much more successful in making slavery illegal in their laws. On the other hand Muslim countries had to be almost dragged to stop slavery and some countries only stopped in latter part of the 20th century, which is very shameful. Today the only country where slavery is openly practised is Mauritania; a majority Muslim country. I also know that sex slaves still exist in western countries, however I am talking strictly about the laws and social norms of the country.

I for one haven't found any real direct Islamic justification for women wearing a niqab. Most of what I get is indirect. Anyways, it's a recent phenomenon in Somalia where Saudis took advantage from the lack of government and thus spread their backward ideology.

The point you make about communities coming up with their own moral laws because crimes ultimately hurt their own people, and it makes no sense to steal from your own community is a good point. However I cannot believe that people who commit heinous crimes in this earth and are undetected won't eventually get their comeuppance by Allah after their death.

What does Allah do to them? The Quran is very explicit on the punishment he endows on those who break his laws. It's very gruesome. Now, why is it justice to endow an everlasting unimaginable suffering on a person who comitted a finite crime? I won't answer that for you but I have my own reasoning behind why that sort of punishment isn't justice. I mean, torture is considered wrong by pretty much every single human being but when it comes to Allah, it's somehow different?

As for the suggestion that Islam came to outlaw slavery gradually, that's nothing beside modern reinterpretation of what Islam actually intended. We know for a fact that Islam was perfected after the death of the prophet and any new addition to the religion would be recognised as biddah, the second most major sin in Islam. The abolition of slavery would be a new introduction which was not recognised by the prophet or his followers who both conducted in the practice (I should have included slavery in my list of reasons for why I left Islam). Furthermore, Allah wasn't so pleasant towards the ancient Egyptians when they supposedly enslaved the Jews for centuries according to legend. I mean, Allah gave them an ultimatum to free the Jews or else. He sent down a prophet for that one task. Allah didn't take into consideration Whether or not the manumission of such a large masses of people would negatively affect the economy of the Egyptians. It's nothing but unfounded mental gymnastics.

Furthermore, Muslims fought against the abolition of slavery. The Ottomans outlawed slavery in the 19th century on par with everyone else but the rest of the Muslim world actively fought against such human laws. In fact, unlike the west, barely any abolitionist movements have taken hold throughout the 1400 years of Islam. Slaves were treated terribly in the Muslim world and they were majority black African. Somalia is a testament to such resistance, slavery was outlawed by the colonial powers but only fully enforced during the 30s meantime Bantus were held as slaves.

The West isn't perfect and it has many wrong to account to but it is highly disingenuous to deny their single handed approach to abruptly outlaw slavery worked better than Islams supposed 1400 year gradual manumission that it only occurred due to western pressure. (Not aimed at you, I'm speaking generally).