Somali Atheist; what made you leave Islam?

[Ferrari]

I just meant that even in the hadiths its mentioned that the pagan arabs use to do tawaaf and other aspects of hajj its just that they us to do for the idols and not for Allah. Im not 100% sure about that so feel free to correct me if Im wrong.

Like I said previously everyone has doubts, don't you? I admit I don't understand certain of aspects of Islam like how slavery is not only halaal but men can have sex with their slave girls.

I haven't had doubts believe it or not. I did ask myself many questions about Islam and I could not answer them or they made little sense to me but I have never had a full blown doubt that it isn't the right religion. The pagan Arabs used to do the tawafs and other rituals of Hajj because they got it from Abraham who was a prophet of God. They were merely copying him they did include inventions of their own. In fact, the Hajj we perform today isn't what they used to perform. A lot of their inventions has been removed.

I honestly cannot answer the slavery part but that doesn't make me doubt God or Islam. We don't understand many laws of physics, do we question them? Just because we don't understand a particular something, it doesn't mean it's wrong.

 

[The_Cosmos]

@Asma pay no attention to these white washed anti slavery brigade folks, annoys the f*ck out of me when they bring it up, the US might have ended slavery hundreds of years ago, but their descendants couldn't vote or share a coffee house with whities until the mid 20th century and they've now just voted in a racist President who wants to block Muslims from entering the country.

Geneva Convention kulaha, and who exactly was consulted in this "convention"? Call it what it is, the white man's club.

True, the US treated free men very terribly but it's dishonest of you to count their wrongs (which I acknowledge) but refuse to acknowledge the wrongs of your people, Muslims. Muslims actively resisted the abolition of slavery. In the West their were movements to end slavery and they contributed immensely to abolishing slavery whilst none took root in the Muslim world. Britain waged wars and intercepted slave ships to ensure the end of the practice whilst Muslims intercepted European ships and took Europeans as slaves.

Geneva Convention kulaha, and who exactly was consulted in this "convention"? Call it what it is, the white man's club.

Call it what you wish but it nonetheless ensures the equality of every human irregardless of race, gender and religion. You're biased yo the core, wishing to dismiss anything the 'white man' does because it ultimately makes your people look bad. The white men killed each other to free the slaves whilst Muslims never batted an eye because it is enshrined within the faith.

 

[Asma]

I for one haven't found any real direct Islamic justification for women wearing a niqab. Most of what I get is indirect. Anyways, it's a recent phenomenon in Somalia where Saudis took advantage from the lack of government and thus spread their backward ideology.



What does Allah do to them? The Quran is very explicit on the punishment he endows on those who break his laws. It's very gruesome. Now, why is it justice to endow an everlasting unimaginable suffering on a person who comitted a finite crime? I won't answer that for you but I have my own reasoning behind why that sort of punishment isn't justice. I mean, torture is considered wrong by pretty much every single human being but when it comes to Allah, it's somehow different?

As for the suggestion that Islam came to outlaw slavery gradually, that's nothing beside modern reinterpretation of what Islam actually intended. We know for a fact that Islam was perfected after the death of the prophet and any new addition to the religion would be recognised as biddah, the second most major sin in Islam. The abolition of slavery would be a new introduction which was not recognised by the prophet or his followers who both conducted in the practice (I should have included slavery in my list of reasons for why I left Islam). Furthermore, Allah wasn't so pleasant towards the ancient Egyptians when they supposedly enslaved the Jews for centuries according to legend. I mean, Allah gave them an ultimatum to free the Jews or else. He sent down a prophet for that one task. Allah didn't take into consideration Whether or not the manumission of such a large masses of people would negatively affect the economy of the Egyptians. It's nothing but unfounded mental gymnastics.

Furthermore, Muslims fought against the abolition of slavery. The Ottomans outlawed slavery in the 19th century on par with everyone else but the rest of the Muslim world actively fought against such human laws. In fact, unlike the west, barely any abolitionist movements have taken hold throughout the 1400 years of Islam. Slaves were treated terribly in the Muslim world and they were majority black African. Somalia is a testament to such resistance, slavery was outlawed by the colonial powers but only fully enforced during the 30s meantime Bantus were held as slaves.

The West isn't perfect and it has many wrong to account to but it is highly disingenuous to deny their single handed approach to abruptly outlaw slavery worked better than Islams supposed 1400 year gradual manumission that it only occurred due to western pressure. (Not aimed at you, I'm speaking generally).

I always felt sorry for the "good" gaalo who have done amazing things for society which are going to end up being burned forever. I cannot even conceptualise the concept of "forever being burned".

All your points are good and valid but nevertheless there just has to be a god ....a good god that created us all. I just believe there is.

 

[McLovin]

 

[McLovin]

 

[Asma]

I haven't had doubts believe it or not. I did ask myself many questions about Islam and I could not answer them or they made little sense to me but I have never had a full blown doubt that it isn't the right religion. The pagan Arabs used to do the tawafs and other rituals of Hajj because they got it from Abraham who was a prophet of God. They were merely copying him they did include inventions of their own. In fact, the Hajj we perform today isn't what they used to perform. A lot of their inventions has been removed.

I honestly cannot answer the slavery part but that doesn't make me doubt God or Islam. We don't understand many laws of physics, do we question them? Just because we don't understand a particular something, it doesn't mean it's wrong.

It doesn't mean its wrong, but I am just talking about something that honestly just feels wrong in my bones. I mean the idea of sex slaves....I just think its wrong. The reason is because I always put myself into the shoes of the slaves. I always think, I wouldn't want to have all my menfolk killed, then taking as slave by the very person who killed my family member ...... I just cannot morally justify it .

 

[The_Cosmos]

I always felt sorry for the "good" gaalo who have done amazing things for society which are going to end up being burned forever. I cannot even conceptualise the concept of "forever being burned".

All your points are good and valid but nevertheless there just has to be a god ....a good god that created us all. I just believe there is.

Well, those are your first steps towards the road of rational indeoendept thought. The fact that you cannot conceptualise enshrined Islamic beliefs, shows that you are thinking for yourself. I don't deny the existence of smart Muslims, such as yourself, I just believe that the best way for Muslims to move forward is to recognise the expired teachings within Islam and move from them. As you have done.

As for you last point, I honestly have no issue with a deistic approach to life. Some of the men I admire the most have happened to be Deists. The belief in a benevolent supernatural deity isn't a problem, the problem is religion. That's only my informed opinion.

 

[Mckenzie]

True, the US treated free men very terribly but it's dishonest of you to count their wrongs (which I acknowledge) but refuse to acknowledge the wrongs of your people, Muslims. Muslims actively resisted the abolition of slavery. In the West their were movements to end slavery and they contributed immensely to abolishing slavery whilst none took root in the Muslim world. Britain waged wars and intercepted slave ships to ensure the end of the practice whilst Muslims intercepted European ships and took Europeans as slaves.



Call it what you wish but it nonetheless ensures the equality of every human irregardless of race, gender and religion. You're biased yo the core, wishing to dismiss anything the 'white man' does because it ultimately makes your people look bad. The white men killed each other to free the slaves whilst Muslims never batted an eye because it is enshrined within the faith.

The Westerners did not try to abolish slavery in our lands because of compassion, it was part of our economy and they (Westerners) wanted to strip us of our possessions to put us completely at their mercy, which they did.

Killed each other to free slaves? I'm assuming you're talking about the US civil war? Well then tell me why did it take hundreds of years and an entire Civil rights Movement just to get the World's attention about the mistreatment of Black people?

Don't you dare give credit to some white bastard about the freedom of the Black man, Islam encouraged the end to slavery whilst the White man saw it as a prophecy to enslave them because of a son of Noah

 

[Asma]

Well, those are your first steps towards the road of rational indeoendept thought. The fact that you cannot conceptualise enshrined Islamic beliefs, shows that you are thinking for yourself. I don't deny the existence of smart Muslims, such as yourself, I just believe that the best way for Muslims to move forward is to recognise the expired teachings within Islam and move from them. As you have done.

As for you last point, I honestly have no issue with a deistic approach to life. Some of the men I admire the most have happened to be Deists. The belief in a benevolent supernatural deity isn't a problem, the problem is religion. That's only my informed opinion.

I am still confused about certain things, but thank you for answering so honestly and eloquently. I appreciate it.

 

[The_Cosmos]

The Westerners did not try to abolish slavery in our lands because of compassion, it was part of our economy and they (Westerners) wanted to strip us of our possessions to put us completely at their mercy, which they did.

Killed each other to free slaves? I'm assuming you're talking about the US civil war? Well then tell me why did it take hundreds of years and an entire Civil rights Movement just to get the World's attention about the mistreatment of Black people?

The Westerners did not try to abolish slavery in our lands because of compassion, it was part of our economy and they (Westerners) wanted to strip us of our possessions to put us completely at their mercy, which they did.

Well, that would make no sense considering that Britain had skirmishes with European and American ships over the transport of slaves. Plus, the Ottoman Empire outlawed slavery in its land around the same time as the western powers, they weren't conquered. Your claims are not based on any objective evidence at all, they're nothing but little biased prattle.

Killed each other to free slaves? I'm assuming you're talking about the US civil war? Well then tell me why did it take hundreds of years and an entire Civil rights Movement just to get the World's attention about the mistreatment of Black people?

I have nothing to say on that point because it's completely unjustifiable. It was absolutely wrong and I agree. I'm not this blind defender of the west you try to make me out to be. I acknowledge their wrongs. However, to stay consistant we must compare the civil rights era to the Muslims world. Much of the Muslim world outlawed slavery in the civil rights era! What was ended over a hundred years ago in America, was only just beginning to be addressed. Saudi Arabia only outlawed slavery due to pressure from John Kennedy.

Also, it doesn't take a genius to research the mistreatment that free men suffered under the hands of the Saudi state and the mistreatment they continue to suffer.

 

[The_Cosmos]

I am still confused about certain things, but thank you for answering so honestly and eloquently. I appreciate it.

No worries. If you don't mind me asking, what are you confused about? I mean, I went through the period you're currently going through and I thought maybe it would be a good idea to share my insight on whatever questions you may have.

 

[Jujuman]

The Westerners did not try to abolish slavery in our lands because of compassion, it was part of our economy and they (Westerners) wanted to strip us of our possessions to put us completely at their mercy, which they did.

Killed each other to free slaves? I'm assuming you're talking about the US civil war? Well then tell me why did it take hundreds of years and an entire Civil rights Movement just to get the World's attention about the mistreatment of Black people?

Don't you dare give credit to some white bastard about the freedom of the Black man, Islam encouraged the end to slavery whilst the White man saw it as a prophecy to enslave them because of a son of Noah

I'm sorry but that is complete and utter bullshit. Give credit where it's due, the British by the early 19th century saw the moral aberration that was slavery and subsequently sought to abort it in the 1830s perhaps it was partially due to industrialisation I'll give you that but they atleast abolished it of their own accord.

On the other hand there was no indigenous abolitionist movement which ever occurred in the Muslim World. I challenge you to find a movement.

This abolitionist movement most likely never took place because the Qur'an and Hadith have made the purchase and sale of slaves permissible.

 

[Asma]

No worries. If you don't mind me asking, what are you confused about? I mean, I went through the period you're currently going through and I thought maybe it would be a good idea to share my insight on whatever questions you may have.

I have always had questions about the deen. I was the student in dugsi that use to argue with the teacher and always give alternative scenarios lol. However lately I have been reading about the history of hadith and I have read some really gruesome and outlandish hadith. Some of the hadith just don't make any sense, just to give an example; the one about how mahdi and dajjal are going to have a sword fight? How would a sword fight in the modern world even make any sense. This led me to think well maybe hadith are really not part of Islam, since they rely on isnad and chain of narrations.... and how can narrations collected by Bukahri and Muslim almost 300 years after the death of the prophet even be accurate. I did some research and this led me to quran only Islam, which really gave me a eureka moment. That quran without hadith really made sense, and it got rid of some aspect of Islam I don't like, such as the prophet (saw) marrying aisha (ra) at the age of 6 and things like women not being allowed to be leaders. However I find that once a person starts questioning its difficult to stop really.

 

[Mckenzie]

Slavery in Islam is not and was not on par with European/US slavery.

In Muslim countries there were Turkish slaves, Arab slaves, Black slaves, European slaves etc if you weren't Muslim you were expected to pay a jizya or risk losing your wife and kids to the Muslim State. Islam is an expansionist religion but it is not a RACIST religion. Don't mention Saudi Arabia, it is a polity full of fat drunk women beaters who use religion as a cash cow.

There are entire sections that studies the "fiqh" of slavery. They had rights and if the slave was mistreated and complained the Caliph could free them himself.

What you had in the West was point blank racism where the strong preyed on the weak. The Black's had their ancestry wiped out and the children taken away from their mothers so they grow up knowing nothing other than slavery. The native Indians basically went through genocide.

 

[ebimomo]

I don't like the atheists on this forum, absolutely condescending and totally delusional. They've somehow managed to convince themselves that just because a couple of scientists share their views on xyz that they're now somehow, out of thin air, more intelligent. All these atheists ever do is waffle on from point A to...Oh lmao, like all they do is go around in a circle all day long, stop this mumbo jumbo at once!

the atheists on this forum have consistently made it difficult for me to show them any form of respect, they're just a bunch of clowns, trash talking Islam one day and trash talking Muslims the next and quite frankly I won't stand for it.

 

[Mike Hunt]

 

[The_Cosmos]

I have always had questions about the deen. I was the student in dugsi that use to argue with the teacher and always give alternative scenarios lol. However lately I have been reading about the history of hadith and I have read some really gruesome and outlandish hadith. Some of the hadith just don't make any sense, just to give an example; the one about how mahdi and dajjal are going to have a sword fight? How would a sword fight in the modern world even make any sense. This led me to think well maybe hadith are really not part of Islam, since they rely on isnad and chain of narrations.... and how can narrations collected by Bukahri and Muslim alsmost 300 years after the death of the prophet even be accurate. I did some research and this led me to quran only Isla, which really gave me a eureka moment. That quran without hadith really made sense, and it got rid of some aspect of Islam I don't like, such as the prophet (saw) marrying aisha (ra) at the age of 6 and things like women not being allowed to be leaders. However I find that once a person starts questioning its difficult to stop really.

I may be speaking from a biased perspective, thus I you never take my word for anything. Nobody is immune to bias. However, I completely agree. The Hadith makes some insane and outlandish claims that simply cannot be taken literally. There's one for example that my head rolling. For example:

"The hell-fire of hell complained to its Lord saying: O Lord! My parts are eating (destroying) one another. So Allah allowed it to take two breaths, one in the winter and the other in the summer. The breath in the summer is at the time when you feel the severest heat and the breath in the winter is at the time when you feel the severest cold."

This is wrong emphatically wrong! I mean, its not really surprising that a seventh century person would state something like this.

Another example:

"If a man has sexual intercourse with his wife and gets discharge first, the child will resemble the father, and if the woman gets discharge first, the child will resemble her." On that 'Abdullah bin Salam said, "I testify that you are the Apostle of Allah."

This completely contradictions the scientific evidence. Who discharges first has nothing to do with the DNA of the child. I may be wrong, however, I think it was the Ancient Greek scientists who thought like this. More evidence of copy and pasting.

However, without the Quran, how do you pray? It also has many scientific errors too like how how the Quran states the Earth was created before the heavens and it took longer create it as well, or maybe how stars are lamps that adorn the lowest heavens completely ignorant of the fact that those are stars more magnificent than ours that dwarf it in every way.

I agree that once you begin to doubt, no matter how much you try to quench the fire, it never goes away. Take me for example, I first began doubting at 16 and no matter what I did, I couldn't stop questioning the shit my teachers were telling me. I was very much like you.

 

[McLovin]

I don't like the atheists on this forum, absolutely condescending and totally delusional. They've somehow managed to convince themselves that just because a couple of scientists share their views on xyz that they're now somehow, out of thin air, more intelligent. All these atheists ever do is waffle on from point A to...Oh lmao, like all they do is go around in a circle all day long, stop this mumbo jumbo at once!

the atheists on this forum have consistently made it difficult for me to show them any form of respect, they're just a bunch of clowns, trash talking Islam one day and trash talking Muslims the next and quite frankly I won't stand for it.

Bro isn't the Quran basically a giant diss track against the unbelievers

 

[ebimomo]

Bro isn't the Quran basically a giant diss track against the unbelievers

How?

 

[The_Cosmos]

I don't like the atheists on this forum, absolutely condescending and totally delusional. They've somehow managed to convince themselves that just because a couple of scientists share their views on xyz that they're now somehow, out of thin air, more intelligent. All these atheists ever do is waffle on from point A to...Oh lmao, like all they do is go around in a circle all day long, stop this mumbo jumbo at once!

the atheists on this forum have consistently made it difficult for me to show them any form of respect, they're just a bunch of clowns, trash talking Islam one day and trash talking Muslims the next and quite frankly I won't stand for it.

I'm not the one who pretends to have some sort of divine knowledge that I never earned by was passed on from my parents. "Islam is the truth!!" You lot love saying, but how do you know this?! Where is the evidence??

I never, not once, thought I was more intelligent than you lot. A scientists affirming our beliefs is testament to the evidence that he has provided to back them up not just blind following of what daddy and mummy said were the truths. If that's not the case, then I dare you to prove that Solomon spoke to ants, Moses split the sea, Noah's flood occurred, Muhammad split the moon and flew to heaven on a winged horse and so on. I'm not condescending, it's you who is trying to protect your adult fairytales from critical scrutiny.

In the Quran, Allah is practically dissing the non believers by tainting them with hell and comparing them to animals, but hey... I'm the condescending one because I dared challenge the validity of its claims.