Sheikh umal vs suufi sheikhs

[DR OSMAN]

@Teeri-Alpha I laffed so hard when u said 'shabab indhihi bay ii kala baxeen' kkkkk something that is very much out of the 'norms' of wars lol and strange 'assault' kkkkk. Amhara-Tigray battle u mano to mano but this bahal from somalia is sitting there and is gouging your eye out kkkkkk it shows me how fucked up our society is on all levels.

 

[Farjano-Walad]

@Teeri-Alpha I laffed so hard when u said 'shabab indhihi bay ii kala baxeen' kkkkk something that is very much out of the 'norms' of wars lol and strange 'assault' kkkkk. Amhara-Tigray battle u mano to mano but this bahal from somalia is sitting there and is gouging your eye out kkkkkk it shows me how fucked up our society is on all levels.

SHISHKABA kill other somali political figures with gun, but with absame out of xasidnimo they killed the OG onlf officer with screw driver, took his eyes out, so Ogaden did best what they do best, the admiral ordered they all be execute point blank, we killed 43 of them in 24 hours,

they did that to him out of cuqdad for ahmed madoobe,

let me share a story, marehan killed 3 reer cabdulle boys in afmadow north 3 years ago, with knife, and taped it, because they hate ahmed madoobe,

Mohamed zubeer 40 strong men left afmadow one night, tracked marehan alshabab in middle juba and buried 30 of them alive, literally buried them alive,

never again did marehan or alshabab try to kill another ogaden directly, they only do suicide bombings now in kismayo,

no mercy, Ogaden is like a giant dragon, or elephant, its hard to stop it once it gets momentum, when it moves, lord have mercy, they will kill you,

this is why habashi respect us,

 

[nomand]

SHISHKABA kill other somali political figures with gun, but with absame out of xasidnimo they killed the OG onlf officer with screw driver, took his eyes out, so Ogaden did best what they do best, the admiral ordered they all be execute point blank, we killed 43 of them in 24 hours,

they did that to him out of cuqdad for ahmed madoobe,

let me share a story, marehan killed 3 reer cabdulle boys in afmadow north 3 years ago, with knife, and taped it, because they hate ahmed madoobe,

Mohamed zubeer 40 strong men left afmadow one night, tracked marehan alshabab in middle juba and buried 30 of them alive, literally buried them alive,

never again did marehan or alshabab try to kill another ogaden directly, they only do suicide bombings now in kismayo,

no mercy, Ogaden is like a giant dragon, or elephant, its hard to stop it once it gets momentum, when it moves, lord have mercy, they will kill you,

this is why habashi respect us,

What a beenaale, probably stole this from some action movie.

Like Rambo 3. Kulaha ogadeen killed 30 marehan. This guy has no shame with his wild lies.

 

[AussieHustler]

Qabiil beef.

Is he negotiating with the SFG on behalf of Madoobe?

 

[kickz]

@nomand

Basically the issue boils down to a conflict of theology between him and umal hence the hostile reaction. They have irreconcilable views regarding certain aqeedah issues like veneration of past scholars/pious people and seeking intercession through them, making pilgrimage to their graves, mawlid, and also a whole list of contemporary issues.

Basically what gaalo do with Priests, Pastors and Popes

 

[nomand]

Nomand is marehan from dusamareeb galgaduud, these central somalia somalis are mostly sufi, they open saying its ok to ask a dead person for intercession, yet how little do they know, may Allah guide them, , the jews and Christians started this from the pagan we will go down their route if we o not stop and think,

waryaa, galgaduud is part of somalia, jigjiga is not. as for where i am from , i am from both galgaduud and jubbaland.

come to jubbaland sxb i will catch you like kunta kinta and sell you for 2 dollars sxb. like a cheap H.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Basically what gaalo do with Priests, Pastors and Popes

Did you know that it was through the veneration of righteous people that shirk originated.

Allah tells us in surah Nuh

And said, 'Never leave your gods and never leave Wadd or Suwa' or Yaghuth and Ya'uq and Nasr. ( Q 71:23)

Wadd, Suwa, Yaghuth, Ya'uq and Nasr were the names of righteous people from the people of Nuh (peace and blessings be upon him). When they died their people first started to visit and sit at their graves after that they erected statues so as to remember them and follow them in righteous conduct. Then finally the people started to worship these idols instead of Allah.

 

[Farjano-Walad]

waryaa, galgaduud is part of somalia, jigjiga is not. as for where i am from , i am from both galgaduud and jubbaland.

come to jubbaland sxb i will catch you like kunta kinta and sell you for 2 dollars sxb. like a cheap H.

I already control you and won you in Jubaalnd, you sit behind me and go to bed when i say so, so be quite warya,

 

[nomand]

I already control you and won you in Jubaalnd, you sit behind me and go to bed when i say so, so be quite warya,

won what waryaa?

you sit in kismaayo and are babysat there by kenya waryaa, during the height of clan wars in 90's when there was no shisheeye only marehan and majerteen fought for it. you come in here with the balls of uhuru kenyatte. waryaa during in 90's and 00's you were just sitting there like a damsel in distress ready to be abused by the victor.

waryaa since when is uhuru balls your balls?

waryaa when kenya is kicked out you will go back to being abused like the damsel you are.

 

[Faahiye]

all the things you mentioned is shirk,it breaks tawxiid to have an intercession by a dead person and Allah

you cannot venerate the dead and ask them to intercede for you between you and god, its shirk,

and so is making pilgrimage to their graves,

Requesting prophets and saints to intercede for you near their graves isn’t shirk. You can argue it’s impermissible but how can it be shirk when the intent isn’t to worship but merely ask for one to supplicate for one’s behalf. Personally I don’t agree with it except for going to the prophet’s tomb and requesting for him to intercede on your behalf. Otherwise we are accusing major scholars such as shaykh al Islam al subki and imam al ramli of shirk. Those 2 scholars went further then the intercession I talked about and even allowed asking for their help (with the intention that their help is merely a form of karamaat which can only be done with god’s permission) which is impermissible. And venerating the dead righteous isn’t shirk. Do you even know what veneration means? It just means to have great respect for them. Also visiting the graves of the righteous is recommended by the majority of Muslim scholars. If the prophet made it a sunnah to visit the graves of a Muslim then why should it be haram to do the same for the graves of the awliya?

 

[kickz]

your behalf. Otherwise we are accusing major scholars such as shaykh al Islam al subki and imam al ramli of shirk. Those 2 scholars went further then the intercession I talked about and even allowed asking for their help (with the intention that their help is merely a form of karamaat which can only be done with god’s permission) which is impermissible. And venerating the dead righteous isn’t shirk. . If the prophet made it a sunnah to visit the graves of a Muslim then why should it be haram to do the same for the graves of the awliya?

Thats straight up shirk, doesnt matter if they are a "scholar"

And visiting a grave is not the same thing

 

[Faahiye]

Thats straight up shirk, doesnt matter if they are a "scholar"

And visiting a grave is not the same thing

They didn't commit shirk as they only allowed it on the basis that their help is merely a form of karamaat and that ones intention is that allah can only cause harm and effect. Is it haram and repulsive? Absolutely but by no means is it shirk as their intention isnt that such a saint or prophet acts independently from god but rather they are only a means. Again it's definitely haram and is an erroneous conclusion they came to. However we should be careful as both scholars are very important in the shafi'I madhab. Infact imam al ramli and ibn hajar al haytami's commentaries of imam Al Nawawi's minhaj are the preferred references for islamic rulings in the Shafi'I madhab. Imagine saying the shafi'I madhab is built on shirk? Were the aforementioned scholars sinful for coming to this conclusion? No as a scholar isn't sinful for coming to a wrong conclusion.

Sahīh Muslim 30:18 - The Book of Judicial Decisions

'Amr b. al-'As reported that he heard Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying:

When a judge gives a decision, having tried his best to decide correctly and is right, there are two rewards for him; and if he gave a judgment after having tried his best (to arrive at a correct decision) but erred, there is one reward for him.


I think the best summary regarding this issue is from Suleyman al kurdi who was the Shafi'I mufti of medina at the time.

"As for tawassul through the prophets and the righteous: it is liked (*mahbub*) and established in authentic hadiths. Its desirability is a matter of agreement. Tawassul through good deeds has been established (in the Qur’an and elsewhere) and (deeds) are accidents, so tawassul through substances is established *a fortiori*. As for a slave making intermediaries (*wasa’it*) between himself and His Lord: if he calls upon them for things as he would call upon Allah Most High, believing in their ability to produce effects independently of Him, then this is disbelief. If he intends (by such calling to perform) tawassul through them to Allah Most High in order to have important matters settled—believing that Allah benefits, harms, and produces effects—then what is apparent is that this is not disbelief, though his action is repulsive." Bughyat al-Mustarshidin (Dar al-Fikr 1994), p. 486.

As for your comment about visiting graves I was responding to the other user who said it is impermissible to travel to the graves of the awliya. The vast majority of scholars have permitted it and It is infact recommended aslong as one isn't doing impermissible stuff.

 

[Webb]

Chad Salafi

 

[Webb]

Virgin sufis wailing outside

 

[TekNiKo]

Virgin sufis wailing outside

So Nabi Amaan is "wailing" now. Akhlaaqda salafiiyinta wataa

 

[kickz]

They didn't commit shirk as they only allowed it on the basis that their help is merely a form of karamaat and that ones intention is that allah can only cause harm and effect. Is it haram and repulsive? Absolutely but by no means is it shirk as their intention isnt that such a saint or prophet acts independently from god but rather they are only a means. Again it's definitely haram and is an erroneous conclusion they came to. However we should be careful as both scholars are very important in the shafi'I madhab.

Thats all that needs to be said, and it doesn't matter the ranking of these "scholars", we have no Popes no one is infallible but Allah.

 

[Faahiye]

Thats all that needs to be said, and it doesn't matter the ranking of these "scholars", we have no Popes no one is infallible but Allah.

I agree with you I’m only disagreeing on the idea that they committed shirk. By no means Am I saying they were correct in this issue

 

[AarLibaax]

Sectarianism & Tribalism

Yaa Allah

 

[repo]

These little sufi grave worshippers are committing sins everyday. Many of the people who oppose Umal were with him doing the TFG era but now they are singing a different tune cause they are vying for his kind of influence.

 

[AarLibaax]

I agree with you I’m only disagreeing on the idea that they committed shirk. By no means Am I saying they were correct in this issue

Islam allows us and even incentives us to give charity, make Dua for the great men and women that came before us.

The relationship between the slave & Allah SWT is direct and no righteously guided fellow slave can intercede.

It's a matter of Aqiida which can be settled by Suufi scholars publicly debating Sheikh Umal and Somali people seeing what's what