Secularism Must Win In Somalia

Secularism is the fundamental seperation of religion and state, this doesn't mean religion disappear it means it has no authority over citizens. This makes sense to me. Come on secularists, let's come together to begin this revolution. It stands on principles that religion is a personal choice, because religion says religion is free will, if religion is now apart of the state, there is no choice, it's a law. Their enforcing religion on all not leaving it to people to decide to follow or leave.

The state should represent the people not represent a party or religion, let religion or parties compete for power there is no problem with that, as long as the playing field is equalized for all in the state since the state matters is about citizens and human beings not about what they believe or practise or clan or region. Who supports this fundamental position, I am definitely a secularist, I am non religious, I can then gather up people who support my idea and we can run for power, notice I am not controlling the state, I am still equalized with other citizens and their ideas or religious view and we let the citizens decide thru an election.

Right now Somalia govt is enforcing an Idea on it's citizen, their going to see huge ramifactions from this as people will not think the govt is about all citizens but only for a certain few like those who believe in Islam, what about those who don't? are they not citizens? It even says to be a president u have to be muslim or something stupid like that, so that means u enforcing an idea on people again. There is no free will here, so how is this religion of god, is the state 'god' now?

Secularism equalizes it's citizens irrespective of religion, race, tribe, religion, political views. No-one should be given an advantage over others, citizens just means those who are taxpayers. Taxpayers can be different religion, race, tribe, political view, so the state must not ever represent one side. Let the different sides of society compete for power be it tribal or political view.
 
@Kingcobra I envision in order for Somalia to be at peace with itself and others we will need a govt that represents the citizens not their idealogy or siyasaad or their religious belief or even their disbelief. A state should never get involved in those matters because all the citizens are taxpayers, the govt must be totally neutral to those matters and focused on protecting their citizens rights in our constitution and also thru our courts.

This will now make all citizens see the state as 'fair' and not choosing sides or representing one side. We can then use elections or democracy to determine who will control this 'neutral govt' without of course eroding citizen inalienable rights such as their freedom to choice, opposition, protest, speech, ideas, etc. So I don't want this govt using it's powers against say non religious section of society and killing us niyahow nor do we want it vice versa hence neutrality in the state is key to this or else we will fight for power not co-exist in the state.

Where-as we must separate our govt and islam so it's secular and neutral to even the playing field of it's society. If Islam is involved as the state, then Islam isn't a religion nor a personal choice now, it means the state is now 'god' niyahow, which is a horrific idea. It's also horrific that a govt represents an identity of it's people not saying all are equal irrespective of identity politics.

The govt should be arranged federally in it's govt function and also it's jurisdiction so it's not centralized but balanced across the nation with the region, while democracy will be used to determine who wins and loses govt each 4 year respecting the people choices.
 
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Yeah yeah yeah yeah secularism, yeah let us copy the western world mashallah, let us legalize LGBT, let us legalize same sex marriage, let us empower women by banning the Hijab because it is oppressive, let empower Somali trans, let us indulge in Zina and riba, let us just throw our Islamic values, history and the Islam that made us victorious against the gaalos yeah yeah yeah. Let us legalize porn too, let us do this to satisfy our Jewish political overlords, let us be good goyims, let us just abandon objective morality. Yes yes yes, alchohol and drugs too, let us fully embrace Liberalism.

People like you needs to get publicly executed if they ever set foot on Somali soil. Somalia needs Islam more than ever, Islam is what honored us and if we choose something else to find honor in Allah will disgrace us. Inshallah Islam needs to be central, it needs to be relevant, people should be educated in Islam before setting foot in politics. A Somali needs to be Muslim to be allowed to have Somali citizenship, if they become murtad as Somali citizens they should be executed.
 
Secularism will eventually happen in the Somalia, there is no state that remains conservative for eternity!
Yeah people like @The_memesiah9 are like those old conservatives who have the urge to impose on other citizens their views thru the state mechanism, which takes away fundamental freedoms of citizens who he doesn't agree with, hence it's not a govt or all, it's a govt for him and his cronies. Like slavery days, it took islam 200 years to catch up and abolish it in the 1960s in Saudi, as u said the long march to secularism will probably take another 200 years but it will happen because it's the only system that allows people to be judged as citizens n human beings first not judged on if they drink, zina, prostitute, gay, all this matters of religion such as sins u commit, it has no place in a state affairs which is matters of protecting it's people right to be free, equal, and not be harmed.
 
Yeah people like @The_memesiah9 are like those old conservatives who have the urge to impose on other citizens their views thru the state mechanism, which takes away fundamental freedoms of citizens who he doesn't agree with, hence it's not a govt or all, it's a govt for him and his cronies. Like slavery days, it took islam 200 years to catch up and abolish it in the 1960s in Saudi, as u said the long march to secularism will probably take another 200 years but it will happen because it's the only system that allows people to be judged as citizens n human beings first not judged on if they drink, zina, prostitute, gay, all this matters of religion such as sins u commit, it has no place in a state affairs which is matters of protecting it's people right to be free, equal, and not be harmed.
You do not see the bigger picture, if Somalia needs to get strong and expand and go from a failed nation to an nation to an empire, Islam is needed. Somalis are 100% Muslims, and they are all conservative and we share the same views you view as conservative and some as extreme.

Again you do not see the bigger picture and do not understand how the world works.
 
Secularism will eventually happen in the Somalia, there is no state that remains conservative for eternity!
Sudan is even secular realizing it's gonna happen sooner or later and their joining the boat, Somalis are always last on the boat and hiding in mountains and villages with ak.47 trying to hold onto an ideal that has long passed it's due by date like slavery did, they were still doing slavery up untill modern times, showing u how hard headed these people are not to realize where there is a world wide consensus on a matter, it's very hard for a few renegades to change that, i urge them to get out of the xafaads of mogadishu, mountains of bari, and villages of the south and hand themselves in and learn from history. The secularism boat has sailed and I think @The_memesiah9 prefers to be thrown off because he will disrupt the people.
 
Secularism will eventually happen in the Somalia, there is no state that remains conservative for eternity!
Other then clan love sxb this idealogy of secularism is what I also support and would abadon my clan over it any day and join a Somali Secular Club, maybe it can be the new SYL dude, u never know but the SYL also had the same issue in it's day with the people still attached to the old ways of life not understanding what a modern state is, maybe we can be the new somali secular club, all clans welcome as long as u believe in this principle. It will rock the nation I think when Somalis understand the fundamental reasoning behind it.

It promotes co-existence and if u don't like to co-exist with those who r different to u, then the issue is u, not them, u can't switch it around as your the one who has no tolerance, as a disbeliever I tolerate religious people, when they come, I listen to to them, when they go into their preaching rants, I politely leave the room so I don't disturb their freedoms becuz if I do, they may one day disturb mine, it's beautiful system where all it's citizens back each other up basesd on freedom rather then identity poltiics which has proven not to work in the long run. It will mean if I see religious guy being infringed on, I have to support him not cause I believe in him but I believe in his freedom only, and then he has to do the same for me when religious people try to take my freedom away cause he also then has to believe im free to be non-religious, agnostic, atheist, christian, jew, or watever idealogy I choose.
 
Yeah people like @The_memesiah9 are like those old conservatives who have the urge to impose on other citizens their views thru the state mechanism, which takes away fundamental freedoms of citizens who he doesn't agree with, hence it's not a govt or all, it's a govt for him and his cronies. Like slavery days, it took islam 200 years to catch up and abolish it in the 1960s in Saudi, as u said the long march to secularism will probably take another 200 years but it will happen because it's the only system that allows people to be judged as citizens n human beings first not judged on if they drink, zina, prostitute, gay, all this matters of religion such as sins u commit, it has no place in a state affairs which is matters of protecting it's people right to be free, equal, and not be harmed.
I think less than 200 years, the internet is changing the mindset of many people.

There's a noticeable diverse set of Somali groups on Facebook, there's gays, sufis, gaalos and Sunnis sharing the same page.

Earlier this week there was a Xildhibaanadad who was asking for non Muslim Somalis to be recognized as citizens since the constitution says Somalis are Muslims.
 
I think less than 200 years, the internet is changing the mindset of many people.

There's a noticeable diverse set of Somali groups on Facebook, there's gays, sufis, gaalos and Sunnis sharing the same page.

Earlier this week there was a Xildhibaanadad who was asking for non Muslim Somalis to be recognized as citizens since the constitution says Somalis are Muslims.
What suprises me, I am non religious and I am the first to fight n die so a religious person isn't forced to be disbeliever or any of that, not because I think he is right but because god gave him free will and if I see another disbeliever infringing on his free will, dagaal ba dhacayso runti. But the believers act like their like damn saints and chosen by god yet they can't tolerate the same freedoms they want themselves for me, fuck that nation wallahi. Untill some reforms happen, I doubt many Somalis will go back. That's why I went to Ethiopia when I chose to visit Africa, I felt free nigga, ppl prefer their freedom runti, I am not going to be happy in a nation where I am forced to pray 5 times a day, fast, wear all that religious crap when I don't believe in it.
 

Karim

باسمك اللهم
VIP
@DR OSMAN We don't want your kind. Please stay in your eternal irrelevancy in your small home in Australia. You're a disgrace to our name, culture and values. Anyone who advocates for secularism is an evil Murtad that deserves to be stoned.
 

Somali Hannibal

I stay solo cruising
Give it a couple more decades,once somalia develops the infrastructure to support the internet and more people in somalia start getting connected with the rest of the world. The ideas of the world will be challenged and in that happening they will choose secularism
 
@DR OSMAN We don't want your kind. Please stay in your eternal irrelevancy in your small home in Australia. You're a disgrace to our name, culture and values. Anyone who advocates for secularism is an evil Murtad that deserves to be stoned.
So you want various restrictions on women, curfews, and religious police enforcing these rules on others?

The DR is advocating for the separation of the government and the religion.

Everyone should have the freedom to do whatever they please!
 

Somali Hannibal

I stay solo cruising
You do not see the bigger picture, if Somalia needs to get strong and expand and go from a failed nation to an nation to an empire, Islam is needed. Somalis are 100% Muslims, and they are all conservative and we share the same views you view as conservative and some as extreme.

Again you do not see the bigger picture and do not understand how the world works.
Not true at all. A country that gives it's citizen between a choice to be killed or to believe in a religion that they don't believe in shall cause fail. For somalia to ever be a great empire,it has to join the rest of the world and it's citizens be educated. This will cause the people of Somalia to actually question why they believe. This doesn't mean that the so called liberals ideas shall take hold In somalia. It just means that people will choose what they want to believe or not
 

Somali Hannibal

I stay solo cruising
Secularism is the fundamental seperation of religion and state, this doesn't mean religion disappear it means it has no authority over citizens. This makes sense to me. Come on secularists, let's come together to begin this revolution. It stands on principles that religion is a personal choice, because religion says religion is free will, if religion is now apart of the state, there is no choice, it's a law. Their enforcing religion on all not leaving it to people to decide to follow or leave.

The state should represent the people not represent a party or religion, let religion or parties compete for power there is no problem with that, as long as the playing field is equalized for all in the state since the state matters is about citizens and human beings not about what they believe or practise or clan or region. Who supports this fundamental position, I am definitely a secularist, I am non religious, I can then gather up people who support my idea and we can run for power, notice I am not controlling the state, I am still equalized with other citizens and their ideas or religious view and we let the citizens decide thru an election.

Right now Somalia govt is enforcing an Idea on it's citizen, their going to see huge ramifactions from this as people will not think the govt is about all citizens but only for a certain few like those who believe in Islam, what about those who don't? are they not citizens? It even says to be a president u have to be muslim or something stupid like that, so that means u enforcing an idea on people again. There is no free will here, so how is this religion of god, is the state 'god' now?

Secularism equalizes it's citizens irrespective of religion, race, tribe, religion, political views. No-one should be given an advantage over others, citizens just means those who are taxpayers. Taxpayers can be different religion, race, tribe, political view, so the state must not ever represent one side. Let the different sides of society compete for power be it tribal or political view.
How many somali people that you have met,have truly believed in Allah? Probably not a lot. The only reason they so strongly believe is to avoid being shunned or killed. Once the masses get educated and they start questioning their beliefs,it's a matter of time before they stop believing. Secularism is inevitable in Somalia.
 
How do you plan on dealing with crime?

Recently a 5 year old girl was raped. A 19 year old girl was gangraped and thrown off a building. Some grown men raped little boys. Al Shabaab is blowing up civilians.

What secular law can punish and stop this behavior?

The punishments in Sharia law (in these cases can be crucifiction along with putting out the eyes afaik) are what will keep these crimes from happening.

Also, Somalia is a Muslim Country by a vast margins. They will unite under the banner of Islam. Anything else will always be undermined by Clan-ism.

Your proposal is not wise and not feasible.
 

Karim

باسمك اللهم
VIP
So you want various restrictions on women, curfews, and religious police enforcing these rules on others?

The DR is advocating for the separation of the government and the religion.

Everyone should have the freedom to do whatever they please!
That's not what our beloved religion teaches us. Western Nations are non Muslims and they should do as they please but as Muslims we have to adhere to the teachings of our religion. Islam is not just religion for prayers, it's an entire system of governance that needs to be strictly followed by it's members. If you believe in nonsensical Western ideals of secularism that's based on separating religion and the state then you're MURTAD and you need to repent quickly for you have committed a major sin.
 

Dawo

Freedom Fighter, Anti Riba.
You mentally retarded dog, repent to your lord Allah who created you from clay and water.

If you continue in your disbelief and die upon this path you will be punished severely eternally.

It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “The Fire said: Lord, parts of me have consumed other parts; give me permission to breathe out. So He gave it permission to breathe out, once in the winter and once in the summer. What you experience of cold or intense cold is the breath of Hell, and what you experience of heat or intense heat is the breath of Hell.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (536) and Muslim (617).

You really think this is something you can withstand ?
 

Geeljire0190

Woman's rights activist
Secularism is the only way. You wouldn't believe the number of atheist and Christian Somalis I've seen . Somalia should be a home for them too.
 

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