Salafi understanding of Tawheed

[AdoonkaAlle]

Has anyone else noticed that the salafi understanding of tawheed has major problems and contradictions ?

The salafis claim the mushrikeen (polytheist) of the past and even now all have affirmed tawheed rububiyyah ( Oneness of Allah’s Lordship ) except for a few people, meaning the polytheist of quraysh, jews, christians etc all believed in this tawheed and that the reason why they are considered to be mushriks is due to the fact that they worshipped others besides Allah. Basically they had tawheed in rububiyyah but not in Uluhiyyah (Oneness of Worship).

There are a number of issues with the above beliefs and i'll summarise them into 2 categories


1) Ilahiyyah Is Inclusive Of Rububiyyah:

To believe in the Oneness of Allah’s Lordship is to affirm that Allah alone is unique in His actions such as creation, bringer of benefit and harm, giving life and death etc and no person/being/deity etc has any share in it. This unique belief about Allah necessitates a person to then direct all of his/her worship towards Him , as it's Allah alone who is worthy of being worshipped. The true ilah is the the true Rabb, so when a person worships others besides Allah, they do so only because he/she believes that the person/being/deity they're worshipping has the power and authority to be able to grant and fulfil their needs.

As such it's impossible for a person to first single out Allah in His actions and then worship another god besides Allah, the fact the person is worshipping another ilah is proof that they don't have the correct belief in tawheed Rububiyyah. Such a person has already committed shirk in Rububiyyah as he/she believes that the false ilah has a share in Allah's Rububiyyah. There are numerous ayat where Allah informs us that those who associated partners to Allah ascribed powers to their gods, and that it was on this basis that they worshipped these false deities alongside Allah. A person who believes a creation is an Ilah beside Allah. Such a person cannot be believer in Tawheed Rububiyyah because Ilahiyyah does not exclude Rububiyyah but it is inclusive of it.

Allah says

1. And they have taken others than Allah as their ilahs that they would be for them ( a source) of honor. (19:81)

Allah, the Exalted, informs about the disbelievers who associate partners with their Lord, that they have taken ilah besides Allah, so that these gods may be a source of honor and might for them. They think that these gods give them power and make them victorious (tafsir ibn kathir: The-Idols-of-the-Polytheists-)​

2. And they have taken others than Allah as their ilahs hoping that they would help when needed. (36:74)

Allah denounces the idolaters for taking the idols as gods alongside Allah, hoping that those gods will help them and provide for them and bring them closer to Allah ( tafsir ibn kathir : The gods of the idolaters are not able to help them )​

From these two verses we learn that the Arabs of the Jahiliyyah believed that those whom they regarded as ilahs had the power to protect, provide and grant them victories and any other need that they had.

3. Then Allah tells us of His greatness, and that worship should be directed to Him alone, not to any of the idols which do not create but are rather themselves created. Thus He says

Is then He, Who creates, the same as one who does not create Will you not then reflect)(16:17) ( tafsir ibn kathir : Worship-is-Allahs-Right )​

​

4. Those whom they invoke besides Allah have not created anything, but are themselves created. (They are) dead, not alive; and they do not know when they will be resurrected (16:20-21)

​

Then Allah tells us that the idols which people call on instead of Him cannot create anything, they are themselves created, as Al-Khalil (Ibrahim) said:​

​

("Do you worship that which you (yourselves) carve While Allah has created you and what you make!'') (37:96).​

​

((They are) dead, not alive) means, they are inanimate and lifeless, they do not hear, see, or think.​

​

(and they know not when they will be resurrected.) meaning, they do not know when the Hour will come, so how can anyone hope for any benefit or reward from these idols They should hope for it from the One Who knows all things and is the Creator of all things. (tafsir ibn kathir : The gods of the Idolators are created​

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5. Yet they have taken besides Him other gods who created nothing but are themselves created, and possess neither harm nor benefit for themselves, and possess no power (of causing) death, nor (of giving) life, nor of raising the dead. ( 25:3)

Allah tells us of the ignorance of the idolaters in taking other gods instead of Allah, the Creator of all things, the One Who controls the affairs of all things; whatever He wills happens and whatever He does not will does not happen. In spite of that, they still worshipped others besides Him, idols who could not even create the wing of a gnat, but were themselves created. They could neither do harm nor bring benefit to themselves, so how could they do anything for their worshippers (tafsir ibn kathir : The Foolishness of the Idolators )​

​

6. No son did Allah beget, nor is there any god along with Him. (If there had been many gods), then each god would have taken away what he had created, and some would have tried to overcome others.(23:91)

meaning, if it were decreed that there should be a plurality of deities, each of them would have exclusive control over whatever he had created, so there would never be any order in the universe. But what we see is that the universe is ordered and cohesive, with the upper and lower realms connected to one another in the most perfect fashion. (tafsir ibn kathir: Allah has no Partner or Associate )​

These ayat reveals that the act of creating, managing affairs of creation, giving life and death, bringing harm and benefit are in control of an Ilah, and should be in control of one who is believed to be an Ilah. Allah refutes those who take other gods besides Him using His Rububiyyah to show them that their gods have not created anything, neither do their gods have ability of harm/benefit, nor control over life or death. Implying they should have taken Allah as their only God, who has created everything, and possesses the ability of harm/benefit, and is in full control of life and death.

From these ayat we learn that Ilahiyyah is inclusive of Rububiyyah and not separate from it. Hence if one was to believe in an Ilah beside Allah then he/she cannot be free from Shirk ar’Rububiyyah.




2. Impossibility of Tawheed and Shirk to coexist together:

Associating anything with Allah renders ones actions null and void ie worthless, Allah say

And indeed it has been revealed to you, as it was to those before you: "If you join others in worship with Allah, surely your deeds will be in vain, and you will certainly be among the losers.'') (39:65)​

​

But if they had joined in worship others with Allah, all that they used to do would have been of no benefit to them.) (6:88).​

Shirk as you know eradicates the deeds of those who commit it and such it negates tawheed of anyone who partakes in such a deed. If the polytheist of quraysh etc committed shirk in tawheed Uluhiyyah (Oneness of Worship) how is it then that they still retain any tawheed at all ? The fact they are considered to be mushriken tells us that they don't have any tawheed for if they had any they would never have been called mushriks in the first place. Shirk is the antithesis of tawheed as it negates tawheed in it's entirety so affirming tawheed for such people is in fact an innovation as it contradicts the deen.

It's like affirming emaan for those who are kafir, despite affirming and believing in the existence of God, previous scriptures etc the jews and christians are still considered to be kafirs nonetheless. If a muslim apostates from the deen due for one reason or the other no one in their right mind claims that such a person has emaan in the parts of islam he/she didn't have an issue with. The reason being that their apostasy negated emaan in it's entirety and not just the part they had issues with. Similarly shirk in Uluhiyyah not only negates tawheed in Uluhiyyah but also tawheed in Rububiyyah and Al asma wa siffat ie entire tawheed, which is why tawheed and shirk can never coexist as they cancel each other out.

To summarise on this point, tawheed is one it's either you possess it or not, if anyone commits shirk they do not have any tawheed as shirk negates tawheed. ( The shirk that is being referred to here is major shirk and not the minor one, the polytheist of quraysh, jews, christians etc all committed this type of shirk and it's why they're considered to be mushrikeen).

 

[BankaTaagan]

If one of the three are missing then your tawheed wuu burburi you described it basically like the salafis

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Some examples of Contradiction from Salafis

1. islamqa website : The real meaning of Tawheed al Ruboobiyyah

Tawheed al-ruboobiyyah means affirming that Allaah is One and Unique in His actions, such as creation, sovereignty, controlling affairs, provision, giving life and death, sending down the rain, and so on. A person’s Tawheed is not complete unless he affirms that Allaah is the Lord, Sovereign, Creator and Provider of all things, that He is the Giver of life and death, the One Who brings benefit and causes harm, the only One Who answers prayers, the One Who is in control of all things, in Whose hand is all goodness, the One Who is able to do whatever He wills – which also includes believing in the divine will and decree (al-qadar), both good and bad.

The mushrikeen among whom the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was sent did not disagree with this aspect of Tawheed, rather they affirmed it in general terms

The fact that the mushrikeen affirmed Tawheed al-ruboobiyyah does not mean that they did so in a complete sense. Rather they used to affirm it in a general sense, as Allaah tells us in the verses quoted above. But they had some faults in their beliefs that undermined this concept, such as attributing rain to the stars, and their belief that soothsayers and fortunetellers had knowledge of the unseen, and other forms of shirk concerning the divine Lordship. But these faults are limited compared to their incorrect beliefs with regard to the oneness of the divine nature (Tawheed al-uloohiyyah) and worshipping Allaah alone (Tawheed al-‘ibaadah).

According to the above fatwa from islamqa were learn the following

1. Tawheed al-ruboobiyyah means affirming that Allaah is One and Unique in His actions
2. Mushrikeen during the time of the Prophet ( peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) affirmed this tawheed in general terms
3. The same mushrikeen had faults that hindered them from having a complete belief in this tawheed

Notice the contradictions in those statements ? just ask yourselves how is it possible for the mushrikeen to affirm tawheed rububiyyah and not in a complete manner ? If we go by the definition given in the fatwa then tawheed rububiyyah means affirming that Allah is one and Unique in His actions, ie to single out Allah alone in His actions

Given that the mushrikeen had faults ie committed shirk how is it possible for them to have Tawheed when they've already committed shirk ? The fatwa concedes that the mushrikeen committed shirk how in the world did the same mushrikeen single out Allah alone in His actions ? how are they affirming tawheed to them ?

What do you think forces them to belief in such a contradiction ?

 

[BankaTaagan]

@AdoonkaAlle how do you explain Tawheed

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

If one of the three are missing then your tawheed wuu burburi you described it basically like the salafis

Maya sxb my point concerns the misunderstanding salafis have with regards how they've defined tawheed and not about validating their claims.

As you know salafis say tawheed is composed of 3 categories
1. Tawheed Rububiyyah
2. Tawheed Uluhiyyah
3. Tawheed Al asma wa sifaat

If you listen to their lectures when they are explaining this classification they say that the
Majority of bani Adam affirmed tawheed rububiyyah but not tawheed uluhiyyah as this is where they went wrong.

Basically what they claim is that the vast majority of the people belief and affirm the oneness of Allah's Lordship( ie that they singled out Allah alone in His action, meaning that they didn't attribute any of Allah's actions to anyone else.) and where people made mistakes was in the Oneness of Allah's worship.

My thread is about refuting this claim by showing from the Quran that

1. When people worship other false gods they do so on the belief that their gods have attributes of Lordship ie possess power and ability to grant the worshippers needs.

2. The true Rabb is the True ilah and that the false ilah is the false rabb. So if one believes in an Ilah beside Allah then he/she cannot be free from Shirk ar’Rububiyyah.


Hope that was helpful sxb

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

@AdoonkaAlle how do you explain Tawheed

Tawheed is to belief that Allah is the only Rabb and Ilah and there is no divine power but Him. He is unique in His existence, attributes, and actions. He alone deserves to be Worshipped

Did i scare you sxb mise ? if you have more questions do ask

 

[Omar del Sur]

So basically you're saying the Salafis aren't Salafi enough.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Salafi contradictions cont

2. This time around i use one of the madkhali websites

Abu khadeejah Lesson 8: Deviation from the required Tawheed

As for Tawheed Ar-Rubūbiyyah, then all of mankind who follow a religion affirm Tawheed Ar-Rubūbiyyah for Allah. No one denies that Allah (the Most High) is the Creator, the Sustainer, the Giver of Life and death except a few individuals who oppose virtually the whole of humanity ―and they only reject the Creator out of pride, haughtiness and obstinance, whilst recognising the truth of His Lordship internally. The Jews, Christians and idol-worshippers all affirm that Allāh (Almighty God) is the sole Lord and Creator.

Let see what the Quran says


They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers.” [ 5:72]

They have taken their scholars and monks as Lords besides Allah, and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no god except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate withHim.(9:31)


And neither did he bid you to take the angels and the prophets for your lords: [for] would he bid you to deny the truth after you have surrendered yourselves unto God?” (3:80)

“They say: "Allah has taken a son." Exalted is He! Rather, to Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and the earth. All are devoutly obedient to Him.” (1:116)

Who are the people who have taken a son – a verse of Quran identifies these people: “And the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths, resembling the saying of those who disbelieved aforetime. Allah's Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!” (9:30)

Son of a human is human, son of Allah would be a God. Taking Prophet Isa (peace and blessing be upon him) and Uzair as son of Allah is equal to believing them to be gods/lords besides Allah.

Imagine affirming tawheed to people who literally believe that Jesus is an actual Lord, just watch the following video. is this not bidah in deen to affirm tawheed for people who commit shirk ?

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

So basically you're saying the Salafis aren't Salafi enough.

More like they're not Salafis they follow the teachings of mohammed abdulwahab who introduced this bidah and the rest blindly follow him in it.

 

[Omar del Sur]

More like they're not Salafis they follow the teachings of mohammed abdulwahab who introduced this bidah and the rest blindly follow him in it.

okay.

As I understand it- you are charging them with saying that the mushrikeen have associated partners with Allah but that they have worshipped God.

But this is not far enough according to you- they need to go to a next level and say that actually any degree to which they worshipped God is invalidated by their shirk and they in fact have not worshipped God at all.

From your standpoint as I understand it, Sheikh Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab himself wasn't "Wahhabi" enough and we need to start saying that even the degree to which the mushrikeen worshipped God- such worship was in fact not monotheistic and is made null by their shirk.

What is even the point of this? It seems inflammatory. The Quran already describes how people have worshipped God but also associated partners.

People have blended polytheism with monotheistic elements. Christianity is an example.

Why for any practical reason does this even matter? We need to be extra hostile to non-Muslims?

I'm not saying we should compromise in order to get along with non-Muslims but what is even the point of this theology you're proposing?

According to what you're proposing, the Salafis themselves are soft on shirk- the Salafis aren't Salafi enough. Even if what you're saying is true and rather than a given mushrik maybe being 80 percent polytheist and 20 percent monotheist in his worship, actually every mushrik on earth is 0% monotheist- why would it even matter to us?

And if what you're proposing is in fact the true, original Islam and represents what Muslims believed prior to Sheikh Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab then why do you seem to be the first in centuries to have supposedly rediscovered this? Are there any scholars who have promoted your view? Can you cite them?

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Belief In Rububiyyah Is Not Belief In Tawheed Al Rububiyyah:

From the Mushrikeen of the quraysh, jews, christians etc all do indeed affirm some of aspects of rububiyyah (lordship) to Allah such as creation, managing the affairs of the world etc but at the same time they affirmed some of aspects of rububiyyah to the gods that they worshipped. This was the shirk they committed in Lordship which prevented them from having a complete belief in tawheed Al rububiyyah.

So the important thing to determine if one has a correct belief in this tawheed is to look at whether or not they have singled out Allah in His Lordship. If their belief consists of affirming lordship to others beside Allah then they don't have tawheed as their shirk negates it.

Affirming god(s) beside Allah is Shirk

One of the major claims made by salafi is to say that the polytheists committed shirk when they worshipped their idols/ilahs etc and missing from their understanding is that it's not a necessity for one to worship a false ilah to committ shirk, just the mere affirmation and belief that their exists a god besides Allah is shirk in and of itself.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

okay.

As I understand it- you are charging them with saying that the mushrikeen have associated partners with Allah but that they have worshipped God.

But this is not far enough according to you- they need to go to a next level and say that actually any degree to which they worshipped God is invalidated by their shirk and they in fact have not worshipped God at all.

That wasn't my point at all, take a look at my reply to brother @BankaTaagan #5 below is my reply to him

Basically what they claim is that the vast majority of the people belief and affirm the oneness of Allah's Lordship( ie that they singled out Allah alone in His action, meaning that they didn't attribute any of Allah's actions to anyone else.) and where people made mistakes was in the Oneness of Allah's worship.

My thread is about refuting this claim by showing from the Quran that

1. When people worship other false gods they do so on the belief that their gods have attributes of Lordship ie possess power and ability to grant the worshippers needs.

2. The true Rabb is the True ilah and that the false ilah is the false rabb. So if one believes in an Ilah beside Allah then he/she cannot be free from Shirk ar’Rububiyyah.

From your standpoint as I understand it, Sheikh Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab himself wasn't "Wahhabi" enough and we need to start saying that even the degree to which the mushrikeen worshipped God- such worship was in fact not monotheistic and is made null by their shirk..

When i say they weren't Salafi what i meant is that they don't follow the aqeedah of the Salaf in this issue (ie claiming that majority of bani adam affirmed tawheed rububiyyah) No salaf has ever claimed what miaw claimed.

The Quran already describes how people have worshipped God but also associated partners.

People have blended polytheism with monotheistic elements. Christianity is an example.
Why for any practical reason does this even matter? We need to be extra hostile to non-Muslims? I'm not saying we should compromise in order to get along with non-Muslims but what is even the point of this theology you're proposing?

Yes the Quran does tell us and this was precisely the reason why i included ayah to show that the claim being made by the salafis is a wrong one. The reason it matters is because salafis have introduced a new understanding of tawheed which contradicts the Quran and deen. I used ayah regarding the jews and christians to prove the point i was making it had nothing to do with being hostile them, compromising our deen, and tbh i don't why you interpreted it that way. My entire discussion revolved around matters of belief. I do believe that you've misundertood my post based on what you wrote above. The only issue that i had was with the understanding of salafis regarding tawheed

According to what you're proposing, the Salafis themselves are soft on shirk- the Salafis aren't Salafi enough. Even if what you're saying is true and rather than a given mushrik maybe being 80 percent polytheist and 20 percent monotheist in his worship, actually every mushrik on earth is 0% monotheist- why would it even matter to us?

And if what you're proposing is in fact the true, original Islam and represents what Muslims believed prior to Sheikh Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab then why do you seem to be the first in centuries to have supposedly rediscovered this? Are there any scholars who have promoted your view? Can you cite them?

Just read my reply (in green) to get a better understanding what i trying to put across in this thread.

It's not my view this is what Allah states in His Quran, all the ayat and tafsir i've posted nothing made sense ? What does Allah tell us in the Quran when muslim differ ? to refer it back to the Quran and Sunnah did i do anything more than that ?

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

A Brief Summary of Important Points

1. Tawheed in Rububiyyah means to affirm the actions of Lordship to Allah alone: meaning one is required to affirm all the actions of Lordship whether major or minor to Allah only. The moment a person affirms any action of Lordship to other than Allah then they've committed shirk and ascribed partners to Allah.


2. Uluhiyyah and Rububiyyah are inclusive of each other not distinct: the true God is the true Lord and the false god is the false lord. None is deserving of worship or being assumed as divine except one who is the Lord. We do not worship except those who we believe to be a lord that benefits and harms and thus worship is but a result of lordship, as the Almighty says

‘The Lord of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, so worship Him and be patient in His worship. Do you know of any equal to Him?’ (19:65).​

Therefore Uluhiyyah is a consequence of Rububiyyah; for if we do not believe he is a lord who benefits and harms, then worship to him is illogical, as the Almighty says (about Sheba and her people)

‘That they do not prostrate to Allah, Who brings forth what is hidden in the heavens and the earth’ (27:25),​

Indicating that prostration is unbefitting for any, other than those who possess ability and power, and it would bear no implication prostrating to any other. This is what is understood and is proven from the Qur’an and Sunnah.


3. Affirming Lordship of Allah Affirms the Worship of Allah: Having the correct belief when it comes to establishing the Oneness of Allah's Lordship leads to worshipping Allah alone as stated above in point #2 as we only worship those whom we believe to be a lord. Therefore believing in the True Lord leads to worshipping the True Ilah as the one deserving of worship is the Lord and no other.

Allah has said when he took the covenant from all people ‘“Am I not your Lord?” and they replied “Yes”’ (7:172) so if acceptance of Tawhid Ar-Rububiyyah was insufficient and accepted by the polytheists, as salafis say, then taking this covenant would be unnecessary and they would not have to say on the Day of Rising ‘Indeed we were unaware of this’ (7:172); it would be necessary for Allah to change the conditions of the covenant to what they recognise and include Uluhiyyah since Rububiyyah is insufficient according to them

As we can see from the ayah above affirming Tawhid Ar-Rububiyyah was sufficient for them and they were not required to accept Tawhid Al-Uluhiyyah also. Which proves that the worship of Allah is contained within His Lordship and it is not separate from it.

 

[Djokovic]

Has anyone else noticed that the salafi understanding of tawheed has major problems and contradictions ?

The salafis claim the mushrikeen (polytheist) of the past and even now all have affirmed tawheed rububiyyah ( Oneness of Allah’s Lordship ) except for a few people, meaning the polytheist of quraysh, jews, christians etc all believed in this tawheed and that the reason why they are considered to be mushriks is due to the fact that they worshipped others besides Allah. Basically they had tawheed in rububiyyah but not in Uluhiyyah (Oneness of Worship).

There are a number of issues with the above beliefs and i'll summarise them into 2 categories


1) Ilahiyyah Is Inclusive Of Rububiyyah:

To believe in the Oneness of Allah’s Lordship is to affirm that Allah alone is unique in His actions such as creation, bringer of benefit and harm, giving life and death etc and no person/being/deity etc has any share in it. This unique belief about Allah necessitates a person to then direct all of his/her worship towards Him , as it's Allah alone who is worthy of being worshipped. The true ilah is the the true Rabb, so when a person worships others besides Allah, they do so only because he/she believes that the person/being/deity they're worshipping has the power and authority to be able to grant and fulfil their needs.

As such it's impossible for a person to first single out Allah in His actions and then worship another god besides Allah, the fact the person is worshipping another ilah is proof that they don't have the correct belief in tawheed Rububiyyah. Such a person has already committed shirk in Rububiyyah as he/she believes that the false ilah has a share in Allah's Rububiyyah. There are numerous ayat where Allah informs us that those who associated partners to Allah ascribed powers to their gods, and that it was on this basis that they worshipped these false deities alongside Allah. A person who believes a creation is an Ilah beside Allah. Such a person cannot be believer in Tawheed Rububiyyah because Ilahiyyah does not exclude Rububiyyah but it is inclusive of it.

Allah says

1. And they have taken others than Allah as their ilahs that they would be for them ( a source) of honor. (19:81)

Allah, the Exalted, informs about the disbelievers who associate partners with their Lord, that they have taken ilah besides Allah, so that these gods may be a source of honor and might for them. They think that these gods give them power and make them victorious (tafsir ibn kathir: The-Idols-of-the-Polytheists-)​

2. And they have taken others than Allah as their ilahs hoping that they would help when needed. (36:74)

Allah denounces the idolaters for taking the idols as gods alongside Allah, hoping that those gods will help them and provide for them and bring them closer to Allah ( tafsir ibn kathir : The gods of the idolaters are not able to help them )​

From these two verses we learn that the Arabs of the Jahiliyyah believed that those whom they regarded as ilahs had the power to protect, provide and grant them victories and any other need that they had.

3. Then Allah tells us of His greatness, and that worship should be directed to Him alone, not to any of the idols which do not create but are rather themselves created. Thus He says

Is then He, Who creates, the same as one who does not create Will you not then reflect)(16:17) ( tafsir ibn kathir : Worship-is-Allahs-Right )​

​

4. Those whom they invoke besides Allah have not created anything, but are themselves created. (They are) dead, not alive; and they do not know when they will be resurrected (16:20-21)

​

Then Allah tells us that the idols which people call on instead of Him cannot create anything, they are themselves created, as Al-Khalil (Ibrahim) said:​

​

("Do you worship that which you (yourselves) carve While Allah has created you and what you make!'') (37:96).​

​

((They are) dead, not alive) means, they are inanimate and lifeless, they do not hear, see, or think.​

​

(and they know not when they will be resurrected.) meaning, they do not know when the Hour will come, so how can anyone hope for any benefit or reward from these idols They should hope for it from the One Who knows all things and is the Creator of all things. (tafsir ibn kathir : The gods of the Idolators are created​

​

​

5. Yet they have taken besides Him other gods who created nothing but are themselves created, and possess neither harm nor benefit for themselves, and possess no power (of causing) death, nor (of giving) life, nor of raising the dead. ( 25:3)

Allah tells us of the ignorance of the idolaters in taking other gods instead of Allah, the Creator of all things, the One Who controls the affairs of all things; whatever He wills happens and whatever He does not will does not happen. In spite of that, they still worshipped others besides Him, idols who could not even create the wing of a gnat, but were themselves created. They could neither do harm nor bring benefit to themselves, so how could they do anything for their worshippers (tafsir ibn kathir : The Foolishness of the Idolators )​

​

6. No son did Allah beget, nor is there any god along with Him. (If there had been many gods), then each god would have taken away what he had created, and some would have tried to overcome others.(23:91)

meaning, if it were decreed that there should be a plurality of deities, each of them would have exclusive control over whatever he had created, so there would never be any order in the universe. But what we see is that the universe is ordered and cohesive, with the upper and lower realms connected to one another in the most perfect fashion. (tafsir ibn kathir: Allah has no Partner or Associate )​

These ayat reveals that the act of creating, managing affairs of creation, giving life and death, bringing harm and benefit are in control of an Ilah, and should be in control of one who is believed to be an Ilah. Allah refutes those who take other gods besides Him using His Rububiyyah to show them that their gods have not created anything, neither do their gods have ability of harm/benefit, nor control over life or death. Implying they should have taken Allah as their only God, who has created everything, and possesses the ability of harm/benefit, and is in full control of life and death.

From these ayat we learn that Ilahiyyah is inclusive of Rububiyyah and not separate from it. Hence if one was to believe in an Ilah beside Allah then he/she cannot be free from Shirk ar’Rububiyyah.




2. Impossibility of Tawheed and Shirk to coexist together:

Associating anything with Allah renders ones actions null and void ie worthless, Allah say

And indeed it has been revealed to you, as it was to those before you: "If you join others in worship with Allah, surely your deeds will be in vain, and you will certainly be among the losers.'') (39:65)​

​

But if they had joined in worship others with Allah, all that they used to do would have been of no benefit to them.) (6:88).​

Shirk as you know eradicates the deeds of those who commit it and such it negates tawheed of anyone who partakes in such a deed. If the polytheist of quraysh etc committed shirk in tawheed Uluhiyyah (Oneness of Worship) how is it then that they still retain any tawheed at all ? The fact they are considered to be mushriken tells us that they don't have any tawheed for if they had any they would never have been called mushriks in the first place. Shirk is the antithesis of tawheed as it negates tawheed in it's entirety so affirming tawheed for such people is in fact an innovation as it contradicts the deen.

It's like affirming emaan for those who are kafir, despite affirming and believing in the existence of God, previous scriptures etc the jews and christians are still considered to be kafirs nonetheless. If a muslim apostates from the deen due for one reason or the other no one in their right mind claims that such a person has emaan in the parts of islam he/she didn't have an issue with. The reason being that their apostasy negated emaan in it's entirety and not just the part they had issues with. Similarly shirk in Uluhiyyah not only negates tawheed in Uluhiyyah but also tawheed in Rububiyyah and Al asma wa siffat ie entire tawheed, which is why tawheed and shirk can never coexist as they cancel each other out.

To summarise on this point, tawheed is one it's either you possess it or not, if anyone commits shirk they do not have any tawheed as shirk negates tawheed. ( The shirk that is being referred to here is major shirk and not the minor one, the polytheist of quraysh, jews, christians etc all committed this type of shirk and it's why they're considered to be mushrikeen).

Do you agree that shaydaan believed in the oneness of god ??

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Do you agree that shaydaan believed in the oneness of god ??

Do you mean if iblis believed in tawheed ? the answer is no as his kufr negated any beliefs that he had, hope i answered your question

 

[Djokovic]

Do you mean if iblis believed in tawheed ? the answer is no as his kufr negated any beliefs that he had, hope i answered your question

You have no knowledge and you say you know tawheed Better than the scholars you are very arrogant.

It is a fact that Iblis believed in Allah but disobeyed him just like someone who believes in Allah but uses idols to communicate with him

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

You have no knowledge and you say you know tawheed Better than the scholars you are very arrogant.

It is a fact that Iblis believed in Allah but disobeyed him just like someone who believes in Allah but uses idols to communicate with him

Listen to what Allah says about iblis

(Remember) when your Lord said to the angels: 'Truly, I am going to create man from clay. So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me, then you fall down prostrate to him.' So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them, Except Iblees (Satan), he was proud and was one of the disbelievers. (38:71-74)

Allah calls iblis a kafir for refusing to follow His command, now the question that follows is how is it possible for iblis to have tawheed and be a kafir at the same time ? Kufr just like shirk negates taweheed, now tell me how is it possible for iblis to have tawheed after becoming a kafir ?


Iblis did certainly believe in Allah and he acknowledged the Might of Allah but despite affirming all of this for Allah, Allah called him a Kafir when he refused to follow His command why ? The reason is that this action of kufr by iblis negated his believe in Allah in it's entirety. Simply put ibli's apostasy negated any emaan he had for Allah.

Do you consider a person who apostates from islam to have emaan ? if you answered like above then your answer would be yes but i know for certain that you don't. The only reason you believe that iblis has emaan is due to the faulty misunderstanding that you've learnt from salafis

 

[Djokovic]

Listen to what Allah says about iblis

(Remember) when your Lord said to the angels: 'Truly, I am going to create man from clay. So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me, then you fall down prostrate to him.' So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them, Except Iblees (Satan), he was proud and was one of the disbelievers. (38:71-74)

Allah calls iblis a kafir for refusing to follow His command, now the question that follows is how is it possible for iblis to have tawheed and be a kafir at the same time ? Kufr just like shirk negates taweheed, now tell me how is it possible for iblis to have tawheed after becoming a kafir ?


Iblis did certainly believe in Allah and he acknowledged the Might of Allah but despite affirming all of this for Allah, Allah called him a Kafir when he refused to follow His command why ? The reason is that this action of kufr by iblis negated his believe in Allah in it's entirety. Simply put ibli's apostasy negated any emaan he had for Allah.

Do you consider a person who apostates from islam to have emaan ? if you answered like above then your answer would be yes but i know for certain that you don't. The only reason you believe that iblis has emaan is due to the faulty misunderstanding that you've learnt from salafis

Congratulations you just refuted yourself

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Congratulations you just refuted yourself

How so ? Care to explain how I did that sxb ?

 

[Extinct]

Don't we all disobey Allah from time to time? Makes that us also disbelievers? Look at this hadith:

It was narrated from Abu Hurairah that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:

“The adulterer, at the time he is committing adultery, is not a believer; (the wine drinker) at the time he is drinking, is not a believer; the thief, at the time he is stealing, is not a believer; the plunderer, at the time he is plundering with the people looking on, is not a believer.”