Reer DDSI how real is this map

[Galool]

You have to admire the Oromo ethnicity, 500 years ago the clans that were part of Ahmed Gurey’s conquest of Ethiopia were mentioned as Somali, Richard Burton mentioned these clans as Somali 150 years ago. Then we converted the Oromos to Islam and instead of them becoming Somali and adopting our language as we taught them Islam, they instead assimilated and integrated Somalis into their clan and continuing their expansion by assimilating all the langaabs on the border. If we were more egalitarian, most of Eastern Oromo would be Somali. Siad Barre had the wisdom to label them Somali Abo and they wanted to join Somaliweyn.

The oromo did not gain any ground until displacing Somalis became a state backed project 100 years ago. Ethiopia has been supported by western governments since they arrived.

 

[World]

The oromo did not gain any ground until displacing Somalis became a state backed project 100 years ago. Ethiopia has been supported by western governments since they arrived.

There was no mention of Oromos 500 years ago, they were a small ethnic group numbering in the thousands and then boom they now number 40 million. 99 % of their land was inhabited by other ethnicities.

200 years ago they weren’t Muslim so Somalis would not accept mixing with them, however once they became Muslim they started their quest of assimilating Somalis like the thousands of other ethnicities.

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

You pretend to be educated but in reality you don’t know shit. The afran qallo “oromos” (which itself is a multiethnic fluid confederacy) you speak of in babile do not have a clan and are a collection of bilingual peoples who identify as “babile afran qallo”. Their largest subclans include the “karanle” and the “gugundhabe”, what about that tells you they are oromos? Pretty much all the clans that have settled down in the region speak afaan oromo. If speaking oromo made you an oromo then the thousands of jidwaq clans between jigjiga and harar would also be Oromo. There are real oromos in babile who recently expanded but the town was never and will not ever be non hawiye, no matter how hard the jebertis pray for it.

The Babile Hawiye are now part and parcel of the Afran Qallo Oromo. They speak Afaan Oromo and are part of Oromia.

There is no hope of them coming back to Somalinimo at this point. No Jidwaq speak Afaan Oromo as A FIRST LANGUAGE!! Even among the Geri Koombe, no one speaks Afaan Oromo at home with their children.

The Hawiye, Dir (like Gurgura, Bursuug etc..) and Sheekhaash have been linguistically and territorially absorbed by the Oromo. They are for all intents not Somali at this point.

https://www.ijsrp.org/research-paper-0320/ijsrp-p9998.pdf

 

[anonimo]

The map posted includes areas the Somali region lost as a result of the Somali-Oromo referendum of 2004.

The map that is recognized by the Ethiopian central government is this:
https://reliefweb.int/map/ethiopia/ethiopia-administrative-map-october-2020

You can see the lands the Somali region lost by comparing the two maps.

Red: Area controlled by Somali region
Green: Area claimed by Somali Region, mostly controlled by Oromia
Blue: Oromia

The green areas are the contested borderlands. Parts of this area like Salaxaad (Ogaden) in Fiiq are in the control of Somali Region.

There have been large loses in Shiniile (Ciise and Hawiye), Guradamoole (Guure Dir), Babile (Hawiye), Jinacsani (Geri Koombe), Gursum (Sheekhaash), Moyaale (Garre) etc...

Many of these Somali clans (Dir, Hawiye & Sheekaash) and Somalized Oromo (Akisho, Jaarso) voted to join the Oromo region in 2004. Most have begun to regret doing so when the Oromo continued to encroach on their land.

The 2004 referendum conflict in Shiniile was mainly in the borderlands between Hawiye and Oromo, not Ciise. Land was not really lost as there was mutual displacement hence why you have two ethnically uniform woredas belonging respectively to the Somali and Oromo regions.

The only Ciise kebeles in Sitti that are outstanding are the ones added to the Afar Zone by Cabdi Iley at the behest of the federal government hence the present conflict.

The area in Southern K5 you highlighted on your map does not correspond to the conflict in Guradhamole as it encompasses territories not adjacent to the Somali Guradhamole woreda. Regarding the Gurre, the conflict between them and the Oromo is in mixed Kebeles. There have always been two Guradhamole areas with each ethnicity forming a majority in their respective woreda but the worsening inter-ethnic relations has resulted in the loss of trust in mixed kebeles. Oromos and Somalis in these mixed kebeles are displacing each other creating mono-ethnic woredas. Somalis being cleansed from the Oromo majority woreda and Oromos being cleansed from the Somali majority woreda. The displacement of this Oromo from Somali majority areas demonstrates this:

The conflict between the Somali and Oromo ethnic groups caused serious humanitarian crisis and displacement of hundreds of thousands of people from both regions in 2017. Muhamed Husien 42 years and father of 7 children, 3 boys, and 4 girls were living in one of the kebeles along the border of the Oromia and Somali regional states in Guradamole woreda of the Oromia region. Muhamed and many others in the village had been leading a peaceful life and coexist with their neighbors from the Somali ethnic group across the border. “For except very few casual clashes arising from competition over resources, mainly pasture and water during the dry season, we (Oromo and Somali) both lived together as one family,” said Muhamed. However, in recent years the attitude among the people belonging to the two ethnic groups living along the borders started changing leading to the animosity that developed and gradually resulted in bigger clashes, deaths, and displacement. As the conflict escalated in the area with repeated reprisals, the community living along the borders was confronted by unprecedented attacks, looting and destruction of properties, and human loss. Muhamed remembers the day he and his children were forced to leave their village. He added ‘‘on that day the village was messed up with fighting and gunshots and others running here and there shouting and looking for their children.’‘ After settling around the border area, on September 30, 2019, another round of conflict erupted between the Somali and Oromo ethnic groups that displaced around 375 households who traveled to provisionally settle in Okoltu and Harbona kebeles of Guradamnole Woreda.

Story of Muhamed Husien

Muhamed Husien is one of the IDPs who benefited from the ERM VII IDP response project implemented in Guradamole woreda of Bale zone in partnership with IRC/ECHO during December 02, 2019, to April 02, 2020.

ethiopia.lutheranworld.org

Somali majority parts of Moyale were also not added to the Oromo region hence why the Garre are in still in control of the strategic border town resulting in the recent cycle of violence where the Borans tried to reclaim the land.

The main controversial flash points of the 2004 referendum were in Fafan where a section of the Jaarso and the Babile voted to join the Oromo region due to clan grievances. The Geri did not lose land in this referendum as the Jaarso formed the majority in areas ceded to the Oromos.

Your statement that Dir voted to join Oromia is without merit unless we identify Jaarso as Dir when the reality is that only a section are Dir whilst other sections are Daarood etc. As for the Akisho, they were not really a factor in the elections as where they mainly inhabit was not contested.

Somali region and Oromo region are just two states in the same country, it’s all politics. Same way certain members of your clan chose SL over their blood brothers in PL. They gained more from being in oromia whom recognised their sovereignty over their own land than the Somali region which was becoming an Ogaden ethnostate at that point.

No one abandoned the Somali language, Only the karanle deep in oromia speak oromo the ones from babile are occasionally bilingual and the ones between babile and jigjiga (where most reside) don’t speak a word of afaan galla and own a neighbourhood in jigjiga. They don’t even intermarry with oromos they just share land.

Stop comparing karanle with the actual pseudo oromo clans like jarso, gurgura, balcad absame etc, they aren’t the same.

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Conflict in Babile is not necessarily a Somali against Oromo issue but partly an internal conflict over resources etc. because the Babile section of Afran Qallo are overwhelmingly Somali with Hawiye being the majority. They assimilated centuries ago.

The Jaarso are not a pseudo Oromo clan, they are Afro Qallo from a confederacy perspective. Not that different to the Babile in that they possess both Oromo and Somali speakers whilst also containing a large number of Dir and Daarood Somalis.

Gurgura are not a pseudo Oromo clan and were never adopted into the Afran Qallo confederacy as they retained their own clan identity, Ugaas and Xeer. A section of them only became Oromo speakers because of cohabitation and intermarriage with the Oromo.

 

[Rocktheboat]

You pretend to be educated but in reality you don’t know shit. The afran qallo “oromos” (which itself is a multiethnic fluid confederacy) you speak of in babile do not have a clan and are a collection of bilingual peoples who identify as “babile afran qallo”. Their largest subclans include the “karanle” and the “gugundhabe”, what about that tells you they are oromos? Pretty much all the clans that have settled down in the region speak afaan oromo. If speaking oromo made you an oromo then the thousands of jidwaq clans between jigjiga and harar would also be Oromo. There are real oromos in babile who recently expanded but the town was never and will not ever be non hawiye, no matter how hard the jebertis pray for it.

I don't believe a word he says about anything relating to Hawiye. I'm assuming he's cumar maxamud and has shown his bias many times

 

[anonimo]

The Babile Hawiye are now part and parcel of the Afran Qallo Oromo. They speak Afaan Oromo and are part of Oromia.

There is no hope of them coming back to Somalinimo at this point. No Jidwaq speak Afaan Oromo as A FIRST LANGUAGE!! Even among the Geri Koombe, no one speaks Afaan Oromo at home with their children.

The Hawiye, Dir (like Gurgura, Bursuug etc..) and Sheekhaash have been linguistically and territorially absorbed by the Oromo. They are for all intents not Somali at this point.

https://www.ijsrp.org/research-paper-0320/ijsrp-p9998.pdf

The Bursuug are part of the Afran Qallo confederacy. This does not apply to Gurgura though as they have retained their own clan identity. Many are Oromo speakers without doubt but their land is not wholly part of the Oromo region even though they intermarry and live side by side with the Oromos in Oromo majority areas such as Kombolcha etc.

As for Jidwaaq, some have been Oromised such a Yabarre descendant subclan in the Noole Afran Qallo.

 

[World]

Conflict in Babile is not necessarily a Somali against Oromo issue but partly an internal conflict over resources etc. because the Babile section of Afran Qallo are overwhelmingly Somali with Hawiye being the majority. They assimilated centuries ago.

Baabile are not majority Somali or Hawiye. They were not even Muslim in the 19th century along with other Afran Qallo subclans. If the Hawiye assimilated centuries ago, then they lost their religion. It reminds me of the Ajuuran etc who mixed and assimilated with pagan Oromos until the Darod brought Islam back to them and taught them their forefathers religion.

 

[anonimo]

Baabile are not majority Somali or Hawiye. They were not even Muslim in the 19th century along with other Afran Qallo subclans. If the Hawiye assimilated centuries ago, then they lost their religion. It reminds me of the Ajuuran etc who mixed with pagan Oromos until the Darod brought Islam back to them.

Check the link GS posted, Babile are overwhelmingly Somali, and Hawiye.

As for the Islam subject, I am walking away from the shots you have just fired as this thread will be swiftly moved to the FKD section considering the sensitive nature of your assertion.

 

[reer]

@anonimo in a highly imaginary scenario of a strong somali dawlad. what should dawladda do with the situation of reer transracial?

 

[Removed]

The Bursuug are part of the Afran Qallo confederacy. This does not apply to Gurgura though as they have retained their own clan identity. Many are Oromo speakers without doubt but their land is not wholly part of the Oromo region even though they intermarry and live side by side with the Oromos in Oromo majority areas such as Kombolcha etc.

As for Jidwaaq, some have been Oromised such a Yabarre descendant subclan in the Noole Afran Qallo.

Is there anything to corroborate that claim aside from a subclan name ( traditions claim these subclans are named after maternal links)

As far as I understand there is no Absame territory within Oromia today so I dont know how we could have entire subclans/populations assimilated.

 

[anonimo]

Is there anything to corroborate that claim aside from a subclan name ( traditions claim these subclans are named after maternal links)

As far as I understand there is no Absame territory within Oromia today so I dont know how we could have entire subclans/populations assimilated.

No written texts etc. just the oral history and clan names. @AfranQallo dropped some pearls of wisdom in a previous thread about the Noole Yabarre subclan, ask him about them for more info as to how they became Oromo.

Hararghe was never Oromo territory. The clans, Somali and non-Somali, such as Yabarre who lived closest to it were obviously affected by the Oromo migration and some assimilated for one reason or the other.

 

[anonimo]

@anonimo in a highly imaginary scenario of a strong somali dawlad. what should dawladda do with the situation of reer transracial?

Sup soldier.

From a cultural perspective, can Germany make Alsatians German again? That is the sort of challenge we have but with less bad blood because of WW2 etc.

Apart from invading Hararghe, we can only buy their affection man.

If we become resource rich, it is a wrap. Lacaag talks, Qootinimo walks!

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

The Bursuug are part of the Afran Qallo confederacy. This does not apply to Gurgura though as they have retained their own clan identity. Many are Oromo speakers without doubt but their land is not wholly part of the Oromo region even though they intermarry and live side by side with the Oromos in Oromo majority areas such as Kombolcha etc.

As for Jidwaaq, some have been Oromised such a Yabarre descendant subclan in the Noole Afran Qallo.

Come on man. The Gurgura and Bursuug are now just plain Oromo. Walahi the Jaarso are more Somali than they are. If you speak Afaan Oromo to your children inside your house, you are Oromo. Ethnicity is based on language.

Btw, the Ethiopian government insists that the border between Ciise and Cafar remains 40 KM east of the road. This is why nothing is being done about the ethnic cleansing being carried out. Unlike the other groups, Ciise waa gob fob dhashay and deserve to be armed and funded.

 

[Removed]

No written texts etc. just the oral history and clan names. @AfranQallo dropped some pearls of wisdom in a previous thread about the Noole Yabarre subclan, ask him about them for more info as to how they became Oromo.

Hararghe was never Oromo territory. The clans, Somali and non-Somali, such as Yabarre who lived closest to it were obviously affected by the Oromo migration and some assimilated for one reason or the other.

His tradition directly conflicts with oral tradition that Absame moved in to Faafan after WiilWaal.

We have an idea of which clans settled in Hararghe and where i.e Babili Jaarso Chinaksan etc. Which districts did Absame settle that went through mass conversion? I am going to need locations otherwise im going to say Han Chinese are the descendants of Bah Geri tomorrow

 

[World]

No written texts etc. just the oral history and clan names. @AfranQallo dropped some pearls of wisdom in a previous thread about the Noole Yabarre subclan, ask him about them for more info as to how they became Oromo.

Hararghe was never Oromo territory. The clans, Somali and non-Somali, such as Yabarre who lived closest to it were obviously affected by the Oromo migration and some assimilated for one reason or the other.

I did read his posts, he didn’t know what sub clan was his mother’s sub clan was after Yabarre. It’s just fairytales. The sub clan he gave doesn’t exist according to one of the users that are Yabarre.

 

[anonimo]

His tradition directly conflicts with oral tradition that Absame moved in to Faafan after WiilWaal.

We have an idea of which clans settled in Hararghe and where i.e Babili Jaarso Chinaksan etc. Which districts did Absame settle that went through mass conversion? I am going to need locations otherwise im going to say Han Chinese are the descendants of Bah Geri tomorrow

Yeah but is it a coincidence that some clans who featured prominently in the Futuh wars such as Hawiyes, Gurgura, Yabarre, Barsuug/Bersub, Geri are the ones still located in the vicinity of Harar? Heck you even some Harti who remained in the Harar area living adjacent to the Gurgura. Similarly, some Marehan are still found in Hararghe etc.

The Oromo migrations changed Hararghe but it is unlikely that the Absame did not neighbour the Oromo migrants as evinced by how the latter came to dominate Jigjiga, it ain't like they relocated to Bari etc. The WiilWaal chronicles highlight how Gaal Gurey used to Gumeysi people seeking to drink from the wells of Faafan thus indicating that there was continued contact between Absame and Oromo.

Nonetheless, DNA TEST the lot to get to the truth! But this might also fail considering the confederate nature of older Somali clans.

Come on man. The Gurgura and Bursuug are now just plain Oromo. Walahi the Jaarso are more Somali than they are. If you speak Afaan Oromo to your children inside your house, you are Oromo. Ethnicity is based on language.

Btw, the Ethiopian government insists that the border between Ciise and Cafar remains 40 KM east of the road. This is why nothing is being done about the ethnic cleansing being carried out. Unlike the other groups, Ciise waa gob fob dhashay and deserve to be armed and funded.

Like I have stated, certain sections of Gurgura speak Oromo, the majority probably apart from the Gurgura of Erer woreda, but their clan representatives refused to be identified as Oromo during the Dire Dawa debate. They can speak what they want but as long as they identify as Somali and are not part of the Oromo clan structure, they are welcome.

Bursug, did I argue against them being Afro Qallo today?

If Ciise were left to fight the Afar without federal intervention, this would be settled a long time ago but the federal army stops them from fully engaging the Afar and clearly gives Afar Liyuu a free reign in the Ciise kebeles now located in the Afar Zone. The Ciise are the best armed Somali clan when one considers their access to Djiboutian weaponry and their ability to import weapons unhindered but Djiboutian Ciises have their hands tied.

I did read his posts, he didn’t know what sub clan was his mother’s sub clan was after Yabarre. It’s just fairytales. The sub clan he gave doesn’t exist according to one of the users that are Yabarre.

He just gave the name of the Noole subclan his mother hails from who identify as Yabarre. It is telling that half his ancestry on 23andme is Somali too. What motive does he have to lie?

Like I said, wanna get to the bottom of it though, YFull DNA test them I say. But then again, that wouldn't necessarily be the answer as Qabils who belong to the same subclan closer to the founding branch are not necessarily closely related.

 

[Laagite]

Oromo women are beautiful, loyal and subservient to their husband, no wonder Somalis have become Oromised in that part of the region.




I'd take Qoti siil and change my abtirisi too!!

 

[Khalid ali]

No written texts etc. just the oral history and clan names. @AfranQallo dropped some pearls of wisdom in a previous thread about the Noole Yabarre subclan, ask him about them for more info as to how they became Oromo.

Hararghe was never Oromo territory. The clans, Somali and non-Somali, such as Yabarre who lived closest to it were obviously affected by the Oromo migration and some assimilated for one reason or the other.

This is common. Millions of Dir, Darood & Hawiye all live in whats now Oromo territory and speak afaan oromo. The Yabaree/Jidwaaq in Hararghe are concentrated in Kombolcha district between harar and diri dhabe. Theres nothing special about them , you have all clans mentioned in futuh al habash still living around Harar.

 

[Khalid ali]

Come on man. The Gurgura and Bursuug are now just plain Oromo. Walahi the Jaarso are more Somali than they are. If you speak Afaan Oromo to your children inside your house, you are Oromo. Ethnicity is based on language.

Btw, the Ethiopian government insists that the border between Ciise and Cafar remains 40 KM east of the road. This is why nothing is being done about the ethnic cleansing being carried out. Unlike the other groups, Ciise waa gob fob dhashay and deserve to be armed and funded.

Barsuug are almost all Somali , and all live in Gursum they were in the past apart of "Warra hummo" which is a supposed subclan of afar qallo , but now dadkii ba qabyaalada wada bartay and all claim their original clans like sheekhash,barsuug,akisho,jiraan kombe,hawiye

 

[anonimo]

This is common. Millions of Dir, Darood & Hawiye all live in whats now Oromo territory and speak afaan oromo. The Yabaree/Jidwaaq in Hararghe are concentrated in Kombolcha district between harar and diri dhabe. Theres nothing special about them , you have all clans mentioned in futuh al habash still living around Harar.

I am in agreement with you brother, was just explaining what I heard to the guys above. It is more convincing from a Bartire Jidwaaq like you who is local to the area. I remember your informative exchanges with our Crypto Somali Afran Qallo brother.

Those Jidwaaqs in Hararghe are part of the Noole confederation if they live in Kombolcha District.

Barsuug are almost all Somali , and all live in Gursum they were in the past apart of "Warra hummo" which is a supposed subclan of afar qallo , but now dadkii ba qabyaalada wada bartay and all claim their original clans like sheekhash,barsuug,akisho,jiraan kombe,hawiye

Interesting.

After the Egyptian Harar expedition and Menelik's attack on the Barsuug and the neighbouring Afran Qallo clans, they became sedentary farmers and allied with the Afran Qallo as part of the Warra Humme confederation (Warra Bursukh/Warra Bersub) along with another clan called the Warra Hiyyo. Are the Warra Hiyyo also Somali?. I though the Barsuug mainly lived in Fayanbiro? I don't think the ones in Gursum are the same as the ones in Fayanbiro?