Question?? How was Adam AS tricked if

[Life]

Iblis was thrown out of heaven? I was listening to surah al araf (starts from verse 11) and a few questions came to mind.


The surah is about shaytan and how he was expelled and when humans were created and put on earth. I was reading and listening and two things didn't make sense to me.

1, how Adam was even tricked to eat the apple by the devil if Allah had expelled him from heaven already.

قَالَ اخْرُجْ مِنْهَا مَذْءُومًا مَّدْحُورًا ۖ لَّمَن تَبِعَكَ مِنْهُمْ لَأَمْلَأَنَّ جَهَنَّمَ مِنكُمْ أَجْمَعِينَ - 7:18

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
[ Allah ] said, "Get out of Paradise, reproached and expelled. Whoever follows you among them - I will surely fill Hell with you, all together."

but apparently, Satan managed to find a way to whisper to Adam (as) to eat fruit God forbade him to eat.


فَوَسْوَسَ لَهُمَا الشَّيْطَانُ لِيُبْدِيَ لَهُمَا مَا وُورِيَ عَنْهُمَا مِن سَوْآتِهِمَا وَقَالَ مَا نَهَاكُمَا رَبُّكُمَا عَنْ هَٰذِهِ الشَّجَرَةِ إِلَّا أَن تَكُونَا مَلَكَيْنِ أَوْ تَكُونَا مِنَ الْخَالِدِينَ - 7:20

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts. He said, "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree except that you become angels or become of the immortal."


وَقَاسَمَهُمَا إِنِّي لَكُمَا لَمِنَ النَّاصِحِينَ - 7:21

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
And he swore [by Allah ] to them, "Indeed, I am to you from among the sincere advisors."


فَدَلَّاهُمَا بِغُرُورٍ ۚ فَلَمَّا ذَاقَا الشَّجَرَةَ بَدَتْ لَهُمَا سَوْآتُهُمَا وَطَفِقَا يَخْصِفَانِ عَلَيْهِمَا مِن وَرَقِ الْجَنَّةِ ۖ وَنَادَاهُمَا رَبُّهُمَا أَلَمْ أَنْهَكُمَا عَن تِلْكُمَا الشَّجَرَةِ وَأَقُل لَّكُمَا إِنَّ الشَّيْطَانَ لَكُمَا عَدُوٌّ مُّبِينٌ - 7:22

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
So he made them fall, through deception. And when they tasted of the tree, their private parts became apparent to them, and they began to fasten together over themselves from the leaves of Paradise. And their Lord called to them, "Did I not forbid you from that tree and tell you that Satan is to you a clear enemy?"


The second, thing that got me wondering was about the free will concept. There is supposedly free will in Islam. How does that work when taking into consideration that God is ALL knowing?

“Know you not that Allaah knows all that is in the heaven and on the earth? Verily, it is (all) in the Book (Al‑Lawh Al‑Mahfooz). Verily, that is easy for Allaah”
[al-Hajj 22:70]

If Allah is all-knowing doesn't that mean that our future is predetermined? And to tie this into the Adam (as) and satan question. Why did Allah punish satan or Adam in the first place when he already knew what happened would happen specifically when you take it under consideration that according to the Quran everything that happens is in the WILL of Allah.

“And your Lord creates whatsoever He wills and chooses”

[al-Qasas 28:68]

And also, there is a verse in baqarah that I thought of that was about how Allah sealed the dis-believers heart. Doesn't that go against the free will concept? If God is sealing the hearts of dis-believers and our lives are predetermine then why do humans like Adam or even satan get punished for doing what they were destined to do?

خَتَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِهِمْ وَعَلَىٰ سَمْعِهِمْ ۖ وَعَلَىٰ أَبْصَارِهِمْ غِشَاوَةٌ ۖ وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ - 2:7
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.

I know this particular verse is in context referring to people who pretended and said they were Muslims but in their hearts weren't. but the argument still stands, why did god seal their heart in the first place if he knew before he created them how they were going to turn out. Matter fact why did God create Satan and placed him amongst the angels if he knew that he was going to oppose Allah one day.


Last question, regarding Adam (as). The whole reason as to why humans are on earth is because Adam ate the forbidden fruit and god, as a punishment, sent him to earth. Adam WAS in heaven at one point and was thrown out for a sin he committed. inherence of sins in Islam is not a thing. so why are, we humans suffering because of a sin committed by Adam.

Whoever chooses to follow the right path, follows it but for his own good; and whoever goes astray, goes but astray to his own loss; and no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another’s burden.Moreover. We would never punish (any community for the wrong they may do) ere We have sent an apostle (to them). (Quran 17:15)

I watched a video by Noman Ali khan trying to explain the free will concept and Adam vs Satan. In his explanation, he said, no matter what Adam was always destined to go to earth, which means that it wouldn't matter what Adam would do because GOD planned FOR Adam to be SENT to earth.


PS.

I want a respectful discussion and no bashing.

 

[Garowe boy]

Iblis was thrown out of heaven? I was listening to surah al araf (starts from verse 11) and a few questions came to mind.


The surah is about shaytan and how he was expelled and when humans were created and put on earth. I was reading and listening and two things didn't make sense to me.

1, how Adam was even tricked to eat the apple by the devil if Allah had expelled him from heaven already.

قَالَ اخْرُجْ مِنْهَا مَذْءُومًا مَّدْحُورًا ۖ لَّمَن تَبِعَكَ مِنْهُمْ لَأَمْلَأَنَّ جَهَنَّمَ مِنكُمْ أَجْمَعِينَ - 7:18

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
[ Allah ] said, "Get out of Paradise, reproached and expelled. Whoever follows you among them - I will surely fill Hell with you, all together."

but apparently, Satan managed to find a way to whisper to Adam (as) to eat fruit God forbade him to eat.


فَوَسْوَسَ لَهُمَا الشَّيْطَانُ لِيُبْدِيَ لَهُمَا مَا وُورِيَ عَنْهُمَا مِن سَوْآتِهِمَا وَقَالَ مَا نَهَاكُمَا رَبُّكُمَا عَنْ هَٰذِهِ الشَّجَرَةِ إِلَّا أَن تَكُونَا مَلَكَيْنِ أَوْ تَكُونَا مِنَ الْخَالِدِينَ - 7:20

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts. He said, "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree except that you become angels or become of the immortal."


وَقَاسَمَهُمَا إِنِّي لَكُمَا لَمِنَ النَّاصِحِينَ - 7:21

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
And he swore [by Allah ] to them, "Indeed, I am to you from among the sincere advisors."


فَدَلَّاهُمَا بِغُرُورٍ ۚ فَلَمَّا ذَاقَا الشَّجَرَةَ بَدَتْ لَهُمَا سَوْآتُهُمَا وَطَفِقَا يَخْصِفَانِ عَلَيْهِمَا مِن وَرَقِ الْجَنَّةِ ۖ وَنَادَاهُمَا رَبُّهُمَا أَلَمْ أَنْهَكُمَا عَن تِلْكُمَا الشَّجَرَةِ وَأَقُل لَّكُمَا إِنَّ الشَّيْطَانَ لَكُمَا عَدُوٌّ مُّبِينٌ - 7:22

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
So he made them fall, through deception. And when they tasted of the tree, their private parts became apparent to them, and they began to fasten together over themselves from the leaves of Paradise. And their Lord called to them, "Did I not forbid you from that tree and tell you that Satan is to you a clear enemy?"


The second, thing that got me wondering was about the free will concept. There is supposedly free will in Islam. How does that work when taking into consideration that God is ALL knowing?

“Know you not that Allaah knows all that is in the heaven and on the earth? Verily, it is (all) in the Book (Al‑Lawh Al‑Mahfooz). Verily, that is easy for Allaah”
[al-Hajj 22:70]

If Allah is all-knowing doesn't that mean that our future is predetermined? And to tie this into the Adam (as) and satan question. Why did Allah punish satan or Adam in the first place when he already knew what happened would happen specifically when you take it under consideration that according to the Quran everything that happens is in the WILL of Allah.

“And your Lord creates whatsoever He wills and chooses”

[al-Qasas 28:68]

And also, there is a verse in baqarah that I thought of that was about how Allah sealed the dis-believers heart. Doesn't that go against the free will concept? If God is sealing the hearts of dis-believers and our lives are predetermine then why do humans like Adam or even satan get punished for doing what they were destined to do?

خَتَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِهِمْ وَعَلَىٰ سَمْعِهِمْ ۖ وَعَلَىٰ أَبْصَارِهِمْ غِشَاوَةٌ ۖ وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ - 2:7
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.

I know this particular verse is in context referring to people who pretended and said they were Muslims but in their hearts weren't. but the argument still stands, why did god seal their heart in the first place if he knew before he created them how they were going to turn out. Matter fact why did God create Satan and placed him amongst the angels if he knew that he was going to oppose Allah one day.


Last question, regarding Adam (as). The whole reason as to why humans are on earth is because Adam ate the forbidden fruit and god, as a punishment, sent him to earth. Adam WAS in heaven at one point and was thrown out for a sin he committed. inherence of sins in Islam is not a thing. so why are, we humans suffering because of a sin committed by Adam.

Whoever chooses to follow the right path, follows it but for his own good; and whoever goes astray, goes but astray to his own loss; and no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another’s burden.Moreover. We would never punish (any community for the wrong they may do) ere We have sent an apostle (to them). (Quran 17:15)

I watched a video by Noman Ali khan trying to explain the free will concept and Adam vs Satan. In his explanation, he said, no matter what Adam was always destined to go to earth, which means that it wouldn't matter what Adam would do because GOD planned FOR Adam to be SENT to earth.


PS.

I want a respectful discussion and no bashing.

Jinns were allowed to past 7 sky's placed above us.

 

[Life]

Jinns were allowed to past 7 sky's placed above us.

it doesn't matter if other jinns were allowed to pass thru heaven. Satan was expelled yet he managed to trick Adam (as) in heaven.

فَوَسْوَسَ لَهُمَا الشَّيْطَانُ لِيُبْدِيَ لَهُمَا مَا وُورِيَ عَنْهُمَا مِن سَوْآتِهِمَا وَقَالَ مَا نَهَاكُمَا رَبُّكُمَا عَنْ هَٰذِهِ الشَّجَرَةِ إِلَّا أَن تَكُونَا مَلَكَيْنِ أَوْ تَكُونَا مِنَ الْخَالِدِينَ - 7:20

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts. He said, "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree except that you become angels or become of the immortal."

 

[kickz]

I am free to jump off a bridge, but Allah knows I will do it, that doesn't change that I made the decision for myself.


These are good discussion topics though, I will set up lectures in Heaven and ask Allah to speak on these topics in the next world where we can see Him directly.

In Jannah I want a 4K video series Netflix style of the beginning and the end

 

[Life]

I am free to jump off a bridge, but Allah knows I will do it, that doesn't change that I made the decision for myself.


These are good discussion topics though, I will set up lectures in Heaven and ask Allah to speak on these topics in the next world where we can see Him directly.

In Jannah I want a 4K video series Netflix style of the beginning and the end

How did you make the decision to jump from the bridge by yourself if he already planned for you to jump?

 

[kickz]

How did you make the decision to jump from the bridge by yourself if he already planned for you to jump?

Allah knowing what I will do, does not mean I am not free to make decisions.

 

[Samaalic Era]

How did you make the decision to jump from the bridge by yourself if he already planned for you to jump?

Destiny or Qadr in Islam is if i summarize it, Allah swt having knowledge of what you will do. When your are created in the womb, Allah swt knows the choices you will make and no one forces you to make them, they entirely your choice. Allah swt makes it clear in the Qur'an that whatever calamity befalls you, it is from yourself. What is Written in Destiny is the choices you make with your own free will, that Allah swt gave you.

 

[Life]

Allah knowing what I will do, does not mean I am not free to make decisions.

How are you free to make decisions when Allah already planned for you to make that decision? He planned everything and as I mention in my first post, everything happens by the will of Allah.

Destiny or Qadr in Islam is if i summarize it, Allah swt having knowledge of what you will do. When your are created in the womb, Allah swt knows the choices you will make and no one forces you to make them, they entirely your choice. Allah swt makes it clear in the Qur'an that whatever calamity befalls you, it is from yourself. What is Written in Destiny is the choices you make with your own free will, that Allah swt gave you.

Allah knew when I was being born and he knows when I'll die because he planned it. Everything that happens is by the will of Allah. How was it entirely my fault when I am just following the path God made for me. God decides whos a Muslim (believer) and who is not (disbeliever). How is that my fault?

 

[Life]

Destiny or Qadr in Islam is if i summarize it, Allah swt having knowledge of what you will do. When your are created in the womb, Allah swt knows the choices you will make and no one forces you to make them, they entirely your choice. Allah swt makes it clear in the Qur'an that whatever calamity befalls you, it is from yourself. What is Written in Destiny is the choices you make with your own free will, that Allah swt gave you.

1. does Allah know what a human being is going to do.
2. can anything happen without the will of Allah

the whole point you are making about personal responsibility is invalid in this case as it is only applicable where the uncertainty of result are involved

 

[Samaalic Era]

How are you free to make decisions when Allah already planned for you to make that decision? He planned everything and as I mention in my first post, everything happens by the will of Allah.




Allah knew when I was being born and he knows when I'll die because he planned it. Everything that happens is by the will of Allah. How was it entirely my fault when I am just following the path God made for me. God decides whos a Muslim (believer) and who is not (disbeliever). How is that my fault?

In Islamic belief, Qadr can change. Through dua, Allah swt can change your qadr depending how strong your dua is. You can not blame Qadr for the choices you made. Whoever asks Allah swt for guidance, Allah swt will guide them and whoever ends up in Hell, has truly worked for it and deserves to be there

 

[Samaalic Era]

1. does Allah know what a human being is going to do.
2. can anything happen without the will of Allah

the whole point you are making about personal responsibility is invalid in this case as it is only applicable where the uncertainty of result are involved

Thats what Free-will is. You are given a sound mind,body and soul. You have the ability to do what you want.Allah swt only intervenes in dunya on rare occasions.

 

[Life]

In Islamic belief, Qadr can change. Through dua, Allah swt can change your qadr depending how strong your dua is. You can not blame Qadr for the choices you made. Whoever asks Allah swt for guidance, Allah swt will guide them and whoever ends up in Hell, has truly worked for it and deserves to be there

It doesn't change anything since God is supposed to be ALL-knowing. How can qadar change if God already knew you were going to ask him (make dua) to change it.

 

[kickz]

It doesn't change anything since God is supposed to be ALL-knowing. How can qadar change if God already knew you were going to ask him (make dua) to change it.

Thats a good question for Allah, anyways bottom line is He knows how it will end up but your decisions are still valid as is the reason our deeds are being counted and will be judged on the Last Day.

Your decisions are not negated by the fact He knows what you will do, I think its that connection you are making that is giving you a problem

 

[Life]

Thats what Free-will is. You are given a sound mind,body and soul. You have the ability to do what you want.Allah swt only intervenes in dunya on rare occasions.

How is that free will? and why does the sharia state that you get the death penalty if you leave Islam if you allowed the ability to make whatever choices as you want?

 

[Life]

Thats a good question for Allah, anyways bottom line is He knows how it will end up but your decisions are still valid as is the reason our deeds are being counted and will be judged on the Last Day.

Your decisions are not negated by the fact He knows what you will do, I think its that connection you are making that is giving you a problem

my decision is negated by that fact that my life is already planned. And last time I checked I didn't plan my life God did. The idea that I get punished in the hereafter for simply following what God planned for me seems unfair. I don't see the problem with the connection I made. Adam as was punished for something God already planned for him. How was that fair. God was going to send him to earth no matter what. It wouldn't matter if he ate the tree or not, he was still going to end up on earth. Can you explain how Adam was even tricked in the first place if God threw Satan out?

 

[Samaalic Era]

How is that free will? and why does the sharia state that you get the death penalty if you leave Islam if you allowed the ability to make whatever choices as you want?

Living in today's urbanised society has made many forget the reality of the world. This is not paradise and never will be. It is designed to push the servants of Allah swt to their physical and mental limit. The strong survive and the weak perish. This is a Law of the universe. Allah swt will reward those who persevere in face of hardship and true to the Covenant you made with Him. All of us, declared that Allah swt is our God before we were born. Qadr is among the six pillars of faith. To be Muslim is to believe in it.

 

[Life]

Living in today's urbanised society has made many forget the reality of the world. This is not paradise and never will be. It is designed to push the servants of Allah swt to their physical and mental limit. The strong survive and the weak perish. This is a Law of the universe. Allah swt will reward those who persevere in face of hardship and true to the Covenant you made with Him. All of us, declared that Allah swt is our God before we were born. Qadr is among the six pillars of faith. To be Muslim is to believe in it.

you didn't answer my question.

 

[kickz]

my decision is negated by that fact that my life is already planned. And last time I checked I didn't plan my life God did. The idea that I get punished in the hereafter for simply following what God planned for me seems unfair. I don't see the problem with the connection I made. Adam as was punished for something God already planned for him. How was that fair. God was going to send him to earth no matter what. It wouldn't matter if he ate the tree or not, he was still going to end up on earth. Can you explain how Adam was even tricked in the first place if God threw Satan out?

Adam made his decision and was punished for it, like I can make a decisions and have it recorded and be judged for it on the Last Day. Allah knows all decisions I will make, but I make them.

Figure out how Allah does what He does is not something I am here to do, I will ask when I meet Him.

 

[Samaalic Era]

you didn't answer my question.

We only know of Qadr what Allah swt has revealed in the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet pbuh. I have told you what i know. It is up to you whether you reject it or accept it. Qadr is among the Hidden knowledge of Allah swt

 

[Nuur Iidaan]

In Jannah I want a 4K video series Netflix style of the beginning and the end

Brooo, if Allah(SWT) allows me to enter Jannah (insha'Allah), I actually want to watch the life of the prophet Muhammad (SAW), and the life of all the 4 righteous Khaliifs/caliphs.
I want to see The Futuh Al habash wars, how life actually was in ancient Japan/Egypt, behind the scenes stuff like how certain families became rich (Rothschild). I want to know more about the native Americans before cadaans came to them. I want to see all the prophets that were sent down to every nation and what languages they spoke and what ills their people were committing before the messengers came and corrected their ways.
I want to see all the civilisations that once stood tall and the actual reason as to why they crumbled. I want to see all the manuscripts/scrolls that were burned in the library of Alexandria, sooooo much knowledge and information lost.


In summary, I want to see history actually play out how it actually happened with no human biases.

Spoiler: W.I.R.W.T.S

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Catch me cooped up in my room feasting the finest foods and watching all the juicy bits of history in my palace. insha'Allah