Punt and Havilah

[Menelik III]

Amhara cant claim axum sorry that your madly in love with an empire that hated you. Amlaq was not related to any axum kings, he claimed to marry a princess from axum. you simply cant name one ancient tribe in the area yet you run around claiming ancient empires. for me to rewrite history you first need to have a history. The harla empire existed before amlaq's, this is well recorded, when amlaq created his empire, he helped harla leaders. Agew are migrants they dont have leaders and neither do Sidama

I’m from Aksum the town. Anyways your rant was off subject. Yekuno Amlak traced his lineage to the last king of Aksum through paternity. He was from a province that has historically been apart of Aksum since its rise, so his link to it isn’t inconceivable. Please share any evidence you have of Harla existing as a political entity, any on Amlak helping them etc...How are Agews migrants? They have lived in the same areas for thousands of years.

Where did hararis originate from?
Harla/Harari are most likely gurages/Argoba who converted. Can you explain to me how your language is Ethio-Semitic ie habesha?

 

[Young Popeye]

I’m from Aksum the town. Anyways your rant was off subject. Yekuno Amlak traced his lineage to the last king of Aksum through paternity. He was from a province that has historically been apart of Aksum since its rise, so his link to it isn’t inconceivable. Please share any evidence you have of Harla existing as a political entity, any on Amlak helping them etc...How are Agews migrants? They have lived in the same areas for thousands of years.

Where did hararis originate from?
Harla/Harari are most likely gurages/Argoba who converted. Can you explain to me how your language is Ethio-Semitic ie habesha?

once upon a time the ham dominated asia and africa before shem made a come back once the jewish empires started becoming a major power after moses freed the slaves in egypt, these are not 1 tribes, there were several different tribes that ruled ham lands and even when shem took yemen and eritrea they formed a distinct old civilization which has nothing to do with amhara or tigray.

Although tigrayans have the closest ties to axum, more so then amhara because they live in axum's old territory. The south of axum was dominated by ham's people, they were considered slaves of the axumites and forcefully converted to judaism and later christianity. These southern ham tribes were sick of shem domination and invaded from the south and east of axum via gudit, they destroyed the axum empire and imposed a foreign language on its populace, gudit spoke a hamitic language related to harari and amharic. The nomadic stock that dominated the region were the pagan Harla, amlak took over western harla and thats when amhara region begins.

gurege were never in the harar region, but the argobba were close with hararis. the gurege were brought down from the north by amda seyon as german historians have documented, amda seyon brought them to confine harla to the east. more tribes came and did the same, they migrate and held large area of the region such as the sidama who historians said entirely changed the outlook of the amhara stock permanently.

agew were migrants because they speak cushitic, the original hamtic people were overtaken by shem so they had to be in the southern front and recently came back to the north. u cant have a pure cushite in that area because semites raided the area, the assyrians even invaded many centuries ago and pushed cushites south or assimilated them into the hamito-semitic languages

reference on harla kingdom from the southern nations state website, p.15 http://www.southtourismeth.org/pdf/Books-and-Study-lists/The-ethno-history-of-halaba-people.pdf

amlak helping dil marrah back to the throne after harla civil wars https://books.google.ca/books?id=c91yAAAAMAAJ&dq=amlak+dil+gamis&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=gamis

as the amlak source admits, harla civil war gave amhara some breathing space to launch their neo axum

 

[aydurus abdi]

This is the same as saying the Turks claiming east roman empire or the germans being roman. Germans and Turks can both claim roman ancestry by assimilation but they were not romans. east africa is behind, when it comes to having documented history. Gudit is influential in Amhara taking the throne as she was mostly likely related to the inhabitants of the amhara lands. Unfortunately they demonize their own ancestors for superior culture such as the axumites because the history is lacking. Amhara kept its old name however they were invaded by sidama, agew and oromo. The Amhara itself is a dead ethnic group which exists solely by language. Now the Oromo amhara claming axum ancestry which is laughable

Axum fell and a non related ethnic group claims descent because their leader happened to marry one princess related to axum. I suspect the Amhara were the amalekites who have a history of having wars with the israelites. agew invades them and basically destroys amhara identity but they continue to call themselves amhara, then the sidama invades and finally oromo. They are however still claiming axumite identity when its clear the language of geez is far different from amharic. Today you have a non Amhara claiming Amhara and Axum simply because the person is an Amharic speaker

I agree with many of the things you wrote. But these are facts. Many amharas have connections to Axum. Though not all of them. Only the ones living in Lasta and Wag humera regions in Amhara. These two regions were historically part of Zagwe Kingdom together with the central zone in tigray. This dynasty succeeded Axum kingdom. And had the name changed after the capital was switched to Lalibela which is today in Lasta. Technically speaking both zagwe and axum are the same. with just different names. At this time period, there was no such things as amhara and tigray. Not even their language existed at this point. There only spoken languages were ge'ez and agaw.

The amharas derive their name from the Wollo region, which was originally called bete amhara. Meaning "house of amhara" This name is not very ancient, same with the name Tigray. I agree that tigrayans have more claim to Axum kingdom, Obviously since it's capital (also called axum) lies within their ethnic territory. And there are many archaeological findings that support this claim. But to say that all amharas have no connection to axum kingdom is wrong. The funny thing is not only amharas in lasta and wag have connections to axum, But also amharas in north gondar. This region was previously called Kingdom of Semien. And it was ruled by falasha jews. I'm going to qoute from wikipedia on this one. "The Jewish-Ethiopian tradition dates the establishment of the Kingdom of Semien to the fourth century, right after the kingdom of Axum turned to Christianity during the reign of Ezana of Axum" The word we should focus on here is "turned" This implies that axumites were jewish/pagans, before christianity. And so its easy to say that they and falashas were one and the same people. They basically had the same religion, laws, languages and customs. But after christianity was introduced to them. A part of them converted to it, and the other part held on to their jewish faith and thus two kingdoms formed. The kingdom of Axum which was christian, and the kingdom of Semien which was jewish. The latter kingdom ceased to be jewish after emperor Susenyos conquered it and converted it's inhabitatnts to christianity.

 

[James Dahl]

Tigrays, Ahmaras, Gurages and Argobbas all have equal claim to be successors to the Aksumite Empire. It's like the French, Italians, Spanish and Romanians can all say they are equally descended from ancient Rome.

 

[embarassing]

@James Dahl what do you know about the Harari people? Who/where do they descend from? I've noticed @Young Popeye attributes a lot to them without providing much evidence.

 

[Factz]

@James Dahl what do you know about the Harari people? Who/where do they descend from? I've noticed @Young Popeye attributes a lot to them without providing much evidence.

Their history is complicated but I think I have a better answer. According to the Ethiopian sources I read from, Harari people migrated from the Shewa Plateau towards Hararghe highlands in the 13th century after the fall of Shewa Sultanate. Harar was only found in the late 13th century. They are believed to descend from the people called Harla and they are Ethio-Semitic people closely related to Gurage, Argobba, Silte and Zay people who all originate from central Ethiopia.

Pre-Oromo expansion in the 16th century. The Hararis were living amongst the Somalis in Hararghe highlands and were northern Somalis closest ally and shared kingdoms with them like Ifat and Adal Sultanates. However, Somalis were the majority and leading principality of these kingdoms.

 

[embarassing]

Their history is complicated but I think I have a better answer. According to the Ethiopian sources I read from, Harari people migrated from the Shewa Plateau towards Hararghe highlands in the 13th century after the fall of Shewa Sultanate. Harar was only found in the late 13th century. They are believed to descend from the people called Harla and they are Ethio-Semitic people closely related to Gurage, Argobba, Silte and Zay people who all originate from central Ethiopia.

Pre-Oromo expansion in the 16th century. The Hararis were living amongst the Somalis in Hararghe highlands and were northern Somalis closest ally and shared kingdoms with them like Ifat and Adal Sultanates. However, Somalis were the majority and leading principality of these kingdoms.

Thanks @Factz

 

[James Dahl]

@James Dahl what do you know about the Harari people? Who/where do they descend from? I've noticed @Young Popeye attributes a lot to them without providing much evidence.

The Harari are a composite people. When Harar became the capital of the Sultanate of Adal it was a small town like Dakkar was, smaller even. Nur ibn Mujahid built strong walls to protect Harar from attack after the Amhara attacked Harar in 1559. During the Abyssinian invasions and Oromo raids, refugees flooded into Harar from all directions and the city ballooned in size and the city walls were entirely filled. This led to a mixed and diverse population of all the tribes of the Ahmar mountains.

Nur ibn Mujaid, in order to stabilize the situation in the city and prevent ethnic strife, ordered everyone in the city to abandon their abtirsi and nasab and be one tribe. This is how the Harari came to be. There are from a dozen different backgrounds, including Somali.

The population of Harar includes most of the tribes who used to populate the entire Ahmar range, including Xarla, Argobba, Hargaya, Gidaya, Gaturi and a dozen more. The largest sub-group of Harari are Gaturi, not Xarla. The Gaturi were once a strong kingdom that inhabited the western slope of the Ahmar Mountains.

The burned cities of the Harari progenitors can be found in ruins across the Ahmar mountains, a sad relic of another age.