Prove Islam To Me. I'll Be As Open Minded As Possible

ADIGA MEESHA KA BAX!
@halwa

We can all return to the fold if convinced. Why can’t you guys convince us? I know they are painful questions.

@Lolalola

Sxb, a whole nation with its population have been destroyed by people claiming to be followers of a religion that calls for justice, Brotherhood, compassion and generosity. It’s anarchy and beyond “imperfection”. Imperfect people don’t continuously murder, rape and pillage others because of clan wars. Somalis decided to follow a more powerful religion called tribalism which it’s existence is reliant on chaos and anarchy and is contrarian to Islam which was supposed to bring them peace and harmony. “Imperfection” is understatement.
 
@halwa

We can all return to the fold if convinced. Why can’t you guys convince us? I know they are painful questions.

@Lolalola

Sxb, a whole nation with its population have been destroyed by people claiming to be followers of a religion that calls for justice, Brotherhood, compassion and generosity. It’s anarchy and beyond “imperfection”. Imperfect people don’t continuously murder, rape and pillage others because of clan wars. Somalis decided to follow a more powerful religion called tribalism which it’s existence is reliant on chaos and anarchy and is contrarian to Islam which was supposed to bring them peace and harmony. “Imperfection” is understatement.

No. Yours aren’t even questioning or an ounce of interest of returning to the religion. Yours are just digs. I know those too well.

How can I convince someone that doesn’t want to be convinced? You’re not open to having a civilised convo about Islam without taking digs at it and making indirect comments. Saxiib, if you need convincing, speak to your local sheikh.

How is it painful for me when it will be painful for you once you die.
 

Ugaaso

Deni
@halwa

We can all return to the fold if convinced. Why can’t you guys convince us? I know they are painful questions.

@Lolalola

Sxb, a whole nation with its population have been destroyed by people claiming to be followers of a religion that calls for justice, Brotherhood, compassion and generosity. It’s anarchy and beyond “imperfection”. Imperfect people don’t continuously murder, rape and pillage others because of clan wars. Somalis decided to follow a more powerful religion called tribalism which it’s existence is reliant on chaos and anarchy and is contrarian to Islam which was supposed to bring them peace and harmony. “Imperfection” is understatement.
lol no one can teach or convince two 40 year olds the value of Islam.
it's take it or leave kinda deal.

:manny:

smh@ all the good people waisting their energy preaching :snoop:
 
Hell.

We human beings live for a finite period of time. And yet, some of us will go to Hell forever.
Also Hell is described as worse than anything mankind can imagine. So I assume that the acts of evil a man can do on Earth will not compare to the pain felt in Hell.

Now God is described as the Most Merciful and the Utterly Just. This would imply to any sane man that this means God is perfectly fair when performing a judgement on man.

If a man has lived for a finite period of time, and has performed evil deeds that won't compare to the pain of Hell, then can one explain in a simply way how God can justify the punishment of Hell? Especially when someone will go there forever, with the punishment exceeding the crime.

@Zucchini I tagged you cause you both asked the same question.
Ironically, Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibn ul Qayyum (quoted often by Salafis) were of the opinion that the Hell Fire isnt an eternal punishment and that Hell will be destroyed forever.
 

AIOPZ

Pan-Islamist
@halwa

We can all return to the fold if convinced. Why can’t you guys convince us? I know they are painful questions.

@Lolalola

Sxb, a whole nation with its population have been destroyed by people claiming to be followers of a religion that calls for justice, Brotherhood, compassion and generosity. It’s anarchy and beyond “imperfection”. Imperfect people don’t continuously murder, rape and pillage others because of clan wars. Somalis decided to follow a more powerful religion called tribalism which it’s existence is reliant on chaos and anarchy and is contrarian to Islam which was supposed to bring them peace and harmony. “Imperfection” is understatement.
Did the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) ask Somalis to value tribalism to the extent that they would kill their fellow Muslims? No? Then that's not Islam at play, that's the devil's handiwork damning the Somali people. I'm not trying to excuse any tribe-based violence that have taken place because of our actions, I'm merely trying to point out that there is no genuine Islamic justification for such actions and that the Somali people regularly engage in haram activites so it's dishonest to accuse the diin of being the reason why Somalis behave as they do.
 
@YourBroMoe

A valid Islamic opinion is that Hell Fire will not exist forever and is designed as temporary punishment, this is the official opinion of scholars such as Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Qayyum, contemporary scholars too.

Anything else?
 

AIOPZ

Pan-Islamist
@YourBroMoe

A valid Islamic opinion is that Hell Fire will not exist forever and is designed as temporary punishment, this is the official opinion of scholars such as Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Qayyum, contemporary scholars too.

Anything else?
Where in the Qu'ran do they cite this, though? There are many verses that outright state that hellfire for disbelievers is eternal.

"They will long to leave the Fire, but never will they leave there from; and theirs will be a lasting torment." (Quran 5:37)

"…And they will never leave of the Fire." (Quran 2:167)

"Surely, those who disbelieve and did wrong; God will not forgive them, nor will He guide them to any way except the way of Hell, to dwell therein forever." (Quran 4:168-169)

"Surely, God has cursed the disbelievers, and has prepared for them a flaming Fire wherein they will abide for ever." (Quran 33:64)

"And whosoever disobeys God and His Messenger, then surely, for him is the fire of Hell, he shall dwell therein forever." (Quran 72:23)
 
Did the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) ask Somalis to value tribalism to the extent that they would kill their fellow Muslims? No? Then that's not Islam at play, that's the devil's handiwork damning the Somali people. I'm not trying to excuse any tribe-based violence that have taken place because of our actions, I'm merely trying to point out that there is no genuine Islamic justification for such actions and that the Somali people regularly engage in haram activites so it's dishonest to accuse the diin of being the reason why Somalis behave as they do.
@Lolalola

Great, we are on the same page now. Tell me, how’s the Somali tribalist who believes in bloodshed by supporting his clan committing heinous crimes in total disregard to Islam be judged to be a better person than one who had always helped people and never caused anyone harm, but dismissed religion and god? Acknowledge me or perish in hell? I don’t care if you are a good person, I’d rather reward an evil person who acknowledges me, is that God’s message?
 
Where in the Qu'ran do they cite this, though? There are many verses that outright state that hellfire for disbelievers is eternal.

"They will long to leave the Fire, but never will they leave there from; and theirs will be a lasting torment." (Quran 5:37)

"…And they will never leave of the Fire." (Quran 2:167)

"Surely, those who disbelieve and did wrong; God will not forgive them, nor will He guide them to any way except the way of Hell, to dwell therein forever." (Quran 4:168-169)

"Surely, God has cursed the disbelievers, and has prepared for them a flaming Fire wherein they will abide for ever." (Quran 33:64)

"And whosoever disobeys God and His Messenger, then surely, for him is the fire of Hell, he shall dwell therein forever." (Quran 72:23)

There are many others that show that its a bit more complicated than that:



لابثين فيها أحقابًا
"They will abide therein for a long time" (Naba: 23)



قال النار مثواكم خالدين فيها إلا ما شاء الله إن ربك حكيم عليم
God will say: "The Hell is your abode forever, except for the time which God Wills." (An'am: 128)


خالدين فيها مادامت السموات والأرض إلا ما شاء ربك إن ربك فعال لما يريد
"They will abide therein forever as long as the Heavens and the Earth continue to exist except for whatever your Lord Wills. Indeed your Lord does what He wants." (Hud: 107)



Statements made by the Companions:


عمر رضي الله عنه قال: "لو لبث أهل النار في النار عدد رمل " عالج " لكان لهم يوم يخرجون فيه".
Umar said: If the people of Hell Fire continued to stay there they would turn into dust... But there will be a day when they all will be evacuated from it."



وابن مسعود رضي الله عنه قال: "ليأتين على جهنم زمان تخفق أبوابها ليس فيها أحد وذلك بعد ما يلبثون فيها أحقابًا".
Ibn Mas'ud says: "A day will come when the gates of Hell will be closed, there will be nobody in it and that will be after the punishment is exhausted."
 

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