Problem with predestination

[TheManWhoIsAlive]

God gave man free will. This is a gift that allows us to make moral decisions. When confronted with the ability to either do what's right or wrong, we are accountable for that.

God is all knowing, so despite our ability to make a choice, God already knows what we'll do.

 

[Psychologist]

Let's say for whatever reason, I get the opportunity to go visit Allah at his throne at the age of 24. There he claims that he has decreed that I will die at the age of 26 in New York City. Now when I get to that age, I have the knowledge that this will happen. To avoid it, I say, there's no way I'm even thinking about stepping foot near New York City when I'm 26.

But that's where the contradiction arises. If I can make that choice and avoid my death, then Allah is not all powerful. However, if no matter what I do, I will end up having to go to New York City and die there at 26, I have no free will.

Muslims will probably argue, he can change this if you repent and become a good Muslim. This doesn't defeat the argument though because then I can argue, what if I want to die at the age of 26 in New York City. If Allah changes this, do I have the free will to be like "No, I wanna go out like this at the age of 26". Also, what kind of divine plan is this if everybody can just pray and change it all the time???

Anyway, just a thought I had. Thanks for reading.- Some EXmuslim

 

[Bundasliga]

Let's say for whatever reason, I get the opportunity to go visit Allah at his throne at the age of 24. There he claims that he has decreed that I will die at the age of 26 in New York City. Now when I get to that age, I have the knowledge that this will happen. To avoid it, I say, there's no way I'm even thinking about stepping foot near New York City when I'm 26.

But that's where the contradiction arises. If I can make that choice and avoid my death, then Allah is not all powerful. However, if no matter what I do, I will end up having to go to New York City and die there at 26, I have no free will.

Muslims will probably argue, he can change this if you repent and become a good Muslim. This doesn't defeat the argument though because then I can argue, what if I want to die at the age of 26 in New York City. If Allah changes this, do I have the free will to be like "No, I wanna go out like this at the age of 26". Also, what kind of divine plan is this if everybody can just pray and change it all the time???

Anyway, just a thought I had. Thanks for reading.- Some EXmuslim

Big Strawman

Stop getting your facts from butthurt murtads that are obsessed to debunk islam & always fail miserably .

First the argument he used can be used for any monotheistic God so it doesnt debunk islam
Pls take some philosophy classes instead of creating low IQ arguments wlh

 

[Hassan2000]

Let's say for whatever reason, I get the opportunity to go visit Allah at his throne at the age of 24. There he claims that he has decreed that I will die at the age of 26 in New York City. Now when I get to that age, I have the knowledge that this will happen. To avoid it, I say, there's no way I'm even thinking about stepping foot near New York City when I'm 26.

But that's where the contradiction arises. If I can make that choice and avoid my death, then Allah is not all powerful. However, if no matter what I do, I will end up having to go to New York City and die there at 26, I have no free will.

Muslims will probably argue, he can change this if you repent and become a good Muslim. This doesn't defeat the argument though because then I can argue, what if I want to die at the age of 26 in New York City. If Allah changes this, do I have the free will to be like "No, I wanna go out like this at the age of 26". Also, what kind of divine plan is this if everybody can just pray and change it all the time???

Anyway, just a thought I had. Thanks for reading.- Some EXmuslim

Nobody knows the future and the unseen except Allah swt. The whole point is a logical fallacy built on a false premise. Did a 12 Yr old write this?

 

[Psychologist]

Big Strawman

Stop getting your facts from butthurt murtads that are obsessed to debunk islam & always fail miserably .

First the argument he used can be used for any monotheistic God so it doesnt debunk islam
Pls take some philosophy classes instead of creating low IQ arguments wlh

pls. What strawman?

they have already done it

"First the argument he used can be used for any monotheistic God so it doesnt debunk islam"

they all have the same roots bruh, LMFAO i love how you bought up other religions on your argument

 

[Psychologist]

Nobody knows the future and the unseen except Allah swt. The whole point is a logical fallacy built on a false premise. Did a 12 Yr old write this?

 

[Hassan2000]

View attachment 195173

You're arguing a point which doesn't exist in the islamic paradigm. It must be sad being this stupid

 

[Bundasliga]

Muslims will probably argue, he can change this if you repent and become a good Muslim

Here your low IQ moment .
Again you fall into fallacy after fallacy & your quoting an exmuslim with no deep knowledge about the Muslim perspective.
Let's go to step one your(&the guy you quoting) definition of "free will" isnt the one
Islam perpetuates at all ,that alone shows why you have no understanding on the arguments I bring forward .

Come back again when you understand the meaning of "free will" in context to the Islamic perspective

 

[Psychologist]

Here your low IQ moment .
Again you fall into fallacy after fallacy & your quoting an exmuslim with no deep knowledge about the Muslim perspective.
Let's go to step one your(&the guy you quoting) definition of "free will" isnt the one
Islam perpetuates at all ,that alone shows why you have no understanding on the arguments I bring forward .

Come back again when you understand the meaning of "free will" in context to the Islamic perspective

"This doesn't defeat the argument though because then I can argue, what if I want to die at the age of 26 in New York City. If Allah changes this, do I have the free will to be like "No, I wanna go out like this at the age of 26". Also, what kind of divine plan is this if everybody can just pray and change it all the time???"
Should have read that.
"LOW IQ moment" LMFAO you funny

I'm done with this, please come back when you learn what you are talking about. starwman ain't going save you

 

[Bundasliga]

"This doesn't defeat the argument though because then I can argue, what if I want to die at the age of 26 in New York City. If Allah changes this, do I have the free will to be like "No, I wanna go out like this at the age of 26". Also, what kind of divine plan is this if everybody can just pray and change it all the time???"
Should have read that.
"LOW IQ moment" LMFAO you funny

I'm done with this, please come back when you learn what you are talking about. starwman ain't going save you

Sxb I'm not trynna insult you or something, but I'm not kidding you come up with fallacy after fallacy like

if I want to die at the age of 26 in New York City. If Allah changes this

Let me make 1 thing clear in your hypothetical argument
1.If God said that's gonna happen then It'll happen no matter what !
2. God won't say to you that's gonna happen in new york then changes it ,because that would lying or dishonest which are attributes that are "ungodly"

There was a story similar to that scenario I'll link that when I find it in shaa allah

 

[Bundasliga]

@Dwit the story I was looking for :


Azrail, who was in disguise, visited Sulayman, may Allaah exalt his mention, and very carefully looked at a man who was there. The man noticed it. When Azrail left, the man asked Sulayman who he was. When he found out that he was Azrail, he said, "He looked at me as if he was going to take my soul. I am scared." Sulayman asked him, "What do you want me to do?" The man said, "Send me to the other side of India with the wind. Sulayman did what the man asked. When Sulayman met Azrail again, he asked Azrail why he had looked at that man like that. Azrail said, "I was ordered to take the soul of that man in the east of India soon. I was surprised to see him here. That is why I looked at him like that." Thus, what Allaah had predestined took place. The man wanted to escape death but ran towards it.[61 Ihya, IV, 837]

 

[Psychologist]

Sxb I'm not trynna insult you or something, but I'm not kidding you come up with fallacy after fallacy like
Let me make 1 thing clear in your hypothetical argument
1.If God said that's gonna happen then It'll happen no matter what !
2. God won't say to you that's gonna happen in new york then changes it ,because that would lying or dishonest which are attributes that are "ungodly"

There was a story similar to that scenario I'll link that when I find it in shaa allah

as i said you don't understand.

"Let's say for whatever reason, I get the opportunity to go visit Allah at his throne at the age of 24."

read what they said.

he says that if he was told when he was going to die and how and he avoid it doesn't that make god not all powerful.

Please read, and try to understand what they are talking about instead of running with your words.

 

[Hassan2000]

Sxb I'm not trynna insult you or something, but I'm not kidding you come up with fallacy after fallacy like
Let me make 1 thing clear in your hypothetical argument
1.If God said that's gonna happen then It'll happen no matter what !
2. God won't say to you that's gonna happen in new york then changes it ,because that would lying or dishonest which are attributes that are "ungodly"

There was a story similar to that scenario I'll link that when I find it in shaa allah

as i said you don't understand.

"Let's say for whatever reason, I get the opportunity to go visit Allah at his throne at the age of 24."

read what they said.

he says that if he was told when he was going to die and how and he avoid it doesn't that make god not all powerful.

Please read, and try to understand what they are talking about instead of running with your words. View attachment 195188

So you admit you want us to answer a hypothetical contradiction that doesn't exist? Wallahi your so lost you can't find any real contradictions so you make them up

 

[Psychologist]

@Dwit the story I was looking for :


Azrail, who was in disguise, visited Sulayman, may Allaah exalt his mention, and very carefully looked at a man who was there. The man noticed it. When Azrail left, the man asked Sulayman who he was. When he found out that he was Azrail, he said, "He looked at me as if he was going to take my soul. I am scared." Sulayman asked him, "What do you want me to do?" The man said, "Send me to the other side of India with the wind. Sulayman did what the man asked. When Sulayman met Azrail again, he asked Azrail why he had looked at that man like that. Azrail said, "I was ordered to take the soul of that man in the east of India soon. I was surprised to see him here. That is why I looked at him like that." Thus, what Allaah had predestined took place. The man wanted to escape death but ran towards it.[61 Ihya, IV, 837]

wasn't my point but crazy how it was already planned out where he would die.

growing up my mom use to tell me how people back than were told how they would die and when they would die but my question was always why can't they just avoid it, i mean don't they have free will or sum. and if they can't avoid it doesn't that mean allah angels lied to the person.

his whole argument was if he knew how he would die and where and he avoid it doesn't that mean god isn't all powerful, and more. you should read it again without thinking of debunking it. open your mind

 

[Psychologist]

So you admit you want us to answer a hypothetical contradiction that doesn't exist? Wallahi your so lost you can't find any real contradictions so you make them up

that was just an example, he used. please read, you niggas are so low iq.

yall grew up in somalia or sum, f*ck is with this low iq nimo. im done

 

[Hassan2000]

that was just an example, he used. please read, you niggas are so low iq.

yall grew up in somalia or sum, f*ck is with this low iq nimo. im done

Are you okay sxb? The example he used doesn't work. Thats the whole point. You're actually projecting right now

 

[Psychologist]

Are you okay sxb? The example he used doesn't work. Thats the whole point. You're actually projecting right now

last time i think for you.

people back than had this right, i believe and it stopped because it has created so much fear into people. one of the stories i always heard was the guy who was supposed to die at 20 but the day he was going to die he share his last meal with some poor person and for his kindness Allah let him live another 20 years. let go look for the hadith

his whole point was if he had that right and he avoid the death doesn't that make allah not all powerful

 

[Hassan2000]

last time i think for you.

people back than had this right, i believe and it stopped because it has created so much fear into people. one of the stories i always heard was the guy who was supposed to die at 20 but the day he was going to die he share his last meal with some poor person and for his kindness Allah let him live another 20 years. let go look for the hadith

his whole point was if he had that right and he avoid the death doesn't that make allah not all powerful

lol stop waffling. How does the guys example make sense or work in the islamic tradition

 

[Psychologist]

lol stop waffling. How does the guys example make sense or work in the islamic tradition

he didn't but similar to what he is looking at
How hard is it to understand

Let's say for whatever reason, I get the opportunity to go visit Allah at his throne at the age of 24. There he claims that he has decreed that I will die at the age of 26 in New York City. Now when I get to that age, I have the knowledge that this will happen. To avoid it, I say, there's no way I'm even thinking about stepping foot near New York City when I'm 26.

But that's where the contradiction arises. If I can make that choice and avoid my death, then Allah is not all powerful. However, if no matter what I do, I will end up having to go to New York City and die there at 26, I have no free will.

Muslims will probably argue, he can change this if you repent and become a good Muslim. This doesn't defeat the argument though because then I can argue, what if I want to die at the age of 26 in New York City. If Allah changes this, do I have the free will to be like "No, I wanna go out like this at the age of 26". Also, what kind of divine plan is this if everybody can just pray and change it all the time???

Anyway, just a thought I had. Thanks for reading.- Some EXmuslim



Im done

 

[Bundasliga]

wasn't my point but crazy how it was already planned out where he would die.

growing up my mom use to tell me how people back than were told how they would die and when they would die but my question was always why can't they just avoid it, i mean don't they have free will or sum. and if they can't avoid it doesn't that mean allah angels lied to the person.

his whole argument was if he knew how he would die and where and he avoid it doesn't that mean god isn't all powerful, and more. you should read it again without thinking of debunking it. open your mind

No bro , you can't avoid death at all!
Its literally the only thing we know will happen 100% .


If he knew how & where he'd done & its destined by God no he can't avoid simple.